View Full Version : Lance "Superman" Armstrong crashed and grounded for life
Skybird
10-22-12, 08:47 AM
First he lost the red cape, then the rest of his blue dress. Naked, smile gone, no shiny teeth anymore: poor poor ex-superman. :Kaleun_Crying:
Sponsors jumping off, all sports titles gone, witness reports of intimidation, mobbing and character assassination to blackmail people to keep the dirty secrets, reputation as cheater established probably - and hopefully - for life.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20008520
How was he heroized when Jan Ullrich fell: how innocent he was declared, how shiny and glorious.
How "surprising" now to learn that in fact he is not one inch better.
I maybe could forgive the doping (I'm for legalizing it anyway, for pure pragmatic reasons), and the lying. But not the violence in form of intimidating, mobbing and character assassination of former employees. Such acts reveal more about character than just cheats in sports.
Onkel Neal
10-22-12, 09:08 AM
I agree, provided that the accusations are true (have they been proved in a court of law yet? Or just the court of public opinion?) Cheating in a sport is the exact opposite thing from the nature of the sport, and constant lying and misleading is abominable. I cannot see how anyone can justify their own lying and faking for years like this, with so much glory and money at stake. Terrible.
Herr-Berbunch
10-22-12, 09:28 AM
The sport is wrecked, knowing you can cheat (allegedly, your Honour) for so many years/titles and almost get away with it. :doh:
The drug teams shouldn't have been quite so complicit/complacent - if he's not where he says he will be then action should be taken, if he fails a sample then don't just accept his immediate excuse, and above all - don't let 'em know you're coming. :doh:
stoppro
10-22-12, 09:37 AM
He has not failed any drug test.What if your workplace was like this,coworkers crap all over you so even if you pass your drug test you are out.He may be guilty but the system is flawed.
Jimbuna
10-22-12, 10:09 AM
Guilty or not...the system is as equally so.
I'm wondering if the sport will ever fully recover.
Herr-Berbunch
10-22-12, 10:10 AM
"If you were careful and paid attention, you could dope and be 99% certain that you would not get caught."
On one occasion Hamilton heard a knock on the door when he was glowing, and simply hid inside the house in silence until the tester gave up and went away.
They never came during the night, making late evening the best time for doping. One elderly tester even called in advance to let the cyclists know when he was coming.
"The most conventional way that the US Postal riders beat what little out-of-competition testing there was, was simply to use their wits to avoid the testers," says the Usada report published on Wednesday.
It adds that Armstrong sometimes stayed at an out-of-the-way hotel where he was "virtually certain not to be tested".
Armstrong contests that he took 500 drug tests worldwide and never failed one. This is disputed. Hamilton says he failed tests, but managed to explain it away, or hush it up.
The Usada report takes the same line. It says Armstrong was subjected to "considerably fewer" tests than he and his lawyers claim, and contends that a medical prescription Armstrong produced to explain a failed blood test in 1999 was bogus.
Source- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19912623
mookiemookie
10-22-12, 10:21 AM
He may be guilty, he may be innocent. But when the USADA’s entire case against him is based around hearsay from guys trying to save their own skin and not actual dirty drug tests, I don't know what to believe.
Guilty or not...the system is as equally so.
I'm wondering if the sport will ever fully recover.
Let's hope it just dies a natural death.
Jimbuna
10-22-12, 12:03 PM
Let's hope it just dies a natural death.
That is possible seeing as how Rabobank (iirc) have dropped out of sponsorship.
gimpy117
10-22-12, 02:57 PM
He may be guilty, he may be innocent. But when the USADA’s entire case against him is based around hearsay from guys trying to save their own skin and not actual dirty drug tests, I don't know what to believe.
agreed. They have everything to gain by saying that he doped etc. etc., and nothing to lose.
Skybird
10-22-12, 03:59 PM
They have slightly more than just "hearsay". They have witness confessions of former staff and aides, and recordings of bullying, intimidation, public character assassination - partially carried out by Armstrong himself, say witnesses.
As I said, doping and lying over it I maybe could forgive, depending on circumstances, which does not mean that I would rehabilitate him. But Armstrong's criminal actings beyond that is where he really pisses me off at the latest.
However, bicycle sports is seriously bugged with doping anyway. Probably all professional sports is where gold medals are at stake and sponsoring and commercial treaties worth hundreds of thousands and millions is the reward. And doping control is always some steps behind.
Lets equalize the chances for everybody, I think that is what it is about: equal chances at the starting line, comparable conditions for all. Legalize doping. People have the right to take risks, if perspectives are worth for them to risk their health and life for it, so be it - it's not as if they would die by starvation if they do not sell their organs to get some money. Just save the audience from this myth of true sportsmanship only, and no doping and chemical tricks and all that. Tell the audience the truth, let athletes choose freely. And if then the audience is so horny for sensation and gladiator games on TV so that they make it still profitable for companies to found millions-heavy treaties with athletes, then the audience gets what it deserves. It's as stupid audience then, but getting intellectually damaged is part of modern TV world anyway.
Legalising doping also would dry out the criminal industry and its profits behind the chemical agents, the involved doctors getting rich by bribery, and so on.
the_tyrant
10-22-12, 04:52 PM
Man, I am so disappointed. I went to school being inspired by him, wore the bracelet for many years, and now there is evidence that Armstrong cheated?!
:shifty:
Onkel Neal
10-22-12, 05:20 PM
They have slightly more than just "hearsay". They have witness confessions of former staff and aides, and recordings of bullying, intimidation, public character assassination - partially carried out by Armstrong himself, say witnesses.
That is hearsay. Until it reaches a court.
Sailor Steve
10-22-12, 05:29 PM
And it will likely never reach a court. They aren't pressing criminal charges, just stripping him of everything they awarded him with. Unless he takes it to court, it probably won't happen.
Skybird
10-22-12, 05:48 PM
"Indizienprozess": trial based on cirumstantial evidence. And the cirmcumstantial evidence against Lance Armstrong seems to have accumulated to overwhelming dimensions. Added to that confessions by former sports collegues and teammates, and witness confessions by staff members and aides.
Solid enough to take action.
It is not surprising an outcome anyway.
Ironically, an insurance company which got sued by Armstrong years ago for some contract salaries, now sues him to get the money back. Sponsors have jumped. He could go financially bancrupt, charges by former contract partners who seek compensation from him are still possible.
He then will write a book. The bookmarket is lacking so much class and is so patient these days that every piece of cat's dirt could be marketed to become a bestseller, no matter the lack of talent in the author.
Platapus
10-22-12, 06:43 PM
I read the 202 page report on the USADA website. While it is not a very well written document, it does appear that there is a lot of very suspicious behaviour dating back to 1998.
The USADA report is more a condemnation of the entire USPS team, which includes Lance. I think some people are missing that point.
Jimbuna
10-23-12, 07:24 AM
It will be interesting to see if he is sued for any of the money he has amassed over the years but a book is probably a cert as well as a film.
Sammi79
10-23-12, 08:11 AM
Hmmm.
Well since apparently everyone was at it, how could it have possibly thrown the results? The best man still won, no? For most of his colleagues and admirers who understand this he will still be forever a legend, and that they can never take away.
Performance drugs can not magically enable you to be competitive in a mega endurance sport like the TDF if you are not practically super human and competitive already. Drugs laws in sport need to be looked at I think. Mind you, drugs laws in general need to be seriously looked at, I think.
All the rules do is attempt to 'level the playing field' anyway, which as we know is impossible. Physically, people are not exactly equal. Should we also handicap those who are faster, stronger ec. because it's not fair? consider that altitude training is also regarded as being unfair, what about those who live at altitude? they should not compete either? So this whole tear down of his character and achievements is simply ridiculous, in my honest opinion. He is and always will be one of the greatest, and most stunning examples of human endurance and physical prowess there has ever been. Drugs or no.
Sailor Steve
10-23-12, 01:15 PM
Great summation, Sammi. I agree with your points, but was unable to articulate them properly.
He is and always will be one of the greatest, and most stunning examples of human endurance and physical prowess there has ever been. Drugs or no.
I'm sure Sheryl Crow thought so.
I'm sure Sheryl Crow thought so.
Old stinky butt. :) I haven't heard her name mentioned in quite a while!
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