Cristoforo Colombo

[Sailor Steve]

Today is the 520th anniversary of the European introduction to the Americas by Christopher Columbus. Most people know the name, but how many know about the man or his voyages to the 'New World'.

Here is a brief history of the exploration that led to the modern American countries.

In the year 1418 the Infante Dom Henrique of Portugal (Prince Henry the Navigator) sponsored an expedition led by João Gonçalves Zarco and Tristão Vaz Teixeira. They discovered the island of Porto Santo. Some time before 1420 they also discovered Madeira.

In 1427 the Açores (Azores) Islands were rediscovered by either Portuguese captain Diogo des Silves or Gonçalves Velho. The islands had appeared in the Catalan Atlas of 1375, but were not explored at that time.

Around 1430 Prince Henrique set up a conservatory for exploration at Vilo do Infante, near Sagres, Cape St Vincent. From there Henrique funded voyages of exploration southward in an attempt to bypass the overland African trade routes controlled by the Moors.

1434: After several failed attempts, Portuguese mariner Gil Eanes rounded Cape Bojador, the the first obstacle in getting around Africa.

1444: Portuguese captain Dinis Dias reached Cabo Verde, the western-most point of Africa and site of the present-day city of Dakar.

1460: Prince Henry the Navigator died.

1469: Princes Isabel of Castille married King Fernando II of Aragon.

1472: Portuguese captain Ruy de Sequeira discovered the village of Eko renamed it Lago de Curamo, today the city of Lagos, Nigeria.

1474: Paolo dal Pozzo Toscanelli of Florence wrote to Father Fernão Martins of Lisbon that by his calculations the distance from the Canary Islands to Marco Polo's Chipangu (Japan) was not more than 3000 nautical miles, and to Quinsay, Cathay (Hangchow, China) was not more than 5000 miles. The actual distances are 10,600 and 11,766 nautical miles respectively.

That same year King Inrique IV of Castille died. The War of Castillian Succession began between Inrique's daughter Juana and his half-sister Isabel. Since Juana was married to her uncle King Afonso V of Portugal, the war became one between that country and Spain.

1475: The city-state of Genoa put together a merchant convoy bound for Lisbon. One of the sailors was a Genoese master-tailor's son, Cristoforo Colombo. On August 13 the convoy was attacked by a war fleet. Colombo leaped overboard when his ship was sunk, and swam ashore clinging to an oar. He and his fellows were taken in by the citizens of Lagos, then transferred to Lisbon. There he started to learn Latin and mathematics.

1479: The Treaty of Alcáçovas was signed, ending the War of Castillian Succession in favor of Isabel. Castile and Aragon were united, creating the beginning of modern Spain. As part of the treaty Portugal acknowledged Spanish ownership of the Canary Islands, and in return was granted full control of the Azores, Madiera and Cape Verde Islands.

1481: King João II of Portugal sent Diogo d'Azabuja to organize the first permanent European settlement in Africa. With him were two young captains - Portuguese Bartolomeu Dias and Genoese Cristoforo Colombo, whom the Portuguese knew as Christovão Colom. The same year Colombo read a copy of the Toscanelli letter and wrote to him indicating his intent to make the voyage.

1484: Christovão Colom was granted an audience before King João II. He asked the king for funding to discover a westward ocean route to 'Cypango'. The king sent him to the royal maritime specialists, who dismissed the Genoese captain as gravely mistaken about the distances involved and foolishly believing the fantasies of Marco Polo, whom was considered by learned men of the day to have written fiction. It didn't help that Colombo had further reduced the distances 2400 and 3550 nautical miles, the former being less thatn one-quarter the actual distance.

1485: Cristoforo Colombo and his young son Diego sailed to Spain. He left his son in the care of Franciscan monks. Making friends with one of them gets him a letter of introduction to the Duke of Sedina Medonia, who sends him to the Count of Medina Celi. The Count is so impressed he considers loaning Colombo some ships right then. He then decides the project is too big for anyone but the monarchs, and sends him to meet the queen.

1486: Colombo arrived in Cordova in January, but the king and queen were away. He didn't actually gain an audience until May. Called Cristóbal Colón by the Spanish, he was again referred to an advisory board, the Talavera, and again it was recommended that he be turned down. At least one member, Diego de Deza, thought Colón's ideas were valid, and the committee recommended that he be put on retainer.

1487: Colón's old fellow-captain Bartolomeu Dias became the first European mariner to round the Cape of Good Hope and enter the Indian Ocean.

1488: Colombo returned to Portugal to try his luck again and to see his young son. In December Bartolomeu Dias returned from his African trip. Cristoforo Colombo and his brother Bartolomeo were among the crowd who welcomed Dias home. Because there was now a viable eastward route, King João abandoned any plans to sail to the west.

1489: Cristoforo Colombo returned to Spain while his brother Bartolomeo sold their successful cartography business and sailed to Englan to try to gain support there. After King Henry VII turned him down he went to France, where he was employed as a mapmaker by Anne de Beaujeu, sister of King Charles VIII. She introduced Bartolomeo to her brother the king, but he showed no interest in the enterprise.

1490: Queen Isabel again sent Cristóbal Colón before the Talevera Committee, and again they turned him down. The queen then told him he would be allowed to try again when the war with the Moors had ended.




More to come.

[Sailor Steve]

1491: Cristoforo Colombo picked up his son and joined his brother in France. The prior at the monastery convinced him to try Queen Isabel one more time. He went to Granada, where the final battle was being fought against the Moors. It is not known whether Isabel advised the Committe to approve the venture, but approved it was.

1492: Nuremburg mapmaker Martin Behaim produced a globe of the Earth for the Portuguese. his distance from the Canaries to Japan was 2080 nautical miles and to China 4440.

January: Cristóbal Colón went before the king and queen with his approval, and rather than humbly thank Their Majesties and prepare for the voyage, he demanded that he be named Admiral of the Ocean Sea and Viceroy of any lands he discovered. Fernando and Isabel sent him packing. While he was preparing to go to France to join his brother the Royal Financier, Luis de Santagel, convinced the queen that the voyage would be cheap, Colón had only asked for honors if he succeeded, and if he did succeed Spain would be ahead of other nations in trade with the East. Isabel sent a courier to bring Colón back to court. The messenger overtook him after he had already started on his way.

April: The Capitulations, the contracts between the Monarchs of Spain and Cristóbal Colón, were signed. The explorer would have his titles if successful, plus ten percent of all gold and jewels brought back from Japan and China. Preparations for the the voyage began.

May: As payment for a municipal infraction the queen ordered the port of Palos to supply Colón with two ships - Santa Clara (nicknamed Niña for her owner, Juan Niño de Moguer) and a second ship whose real name is unknown, nicknamed Pinta, either meaning painted or because a former owner was named Pinto.

May 23: Cristóbal Colón appeared at the church in Palos and had his Royal Commission read. He then chartered a carrack for Juan de la Cosa, named Santa Maria. Colón was lucky in recruiting his sailors, having befriended several of the leading maritime families of the region, notably the Niño, Pinzón and Quintero. Members of all three families served as captains, masters and mates for the voyage. The rest of the officers were either qualified sailors or scholars taken on to make dealing with the orientals easier. The sailors were all fishermen or merchant seamen who knew their jobs, with the exception of a few criminals given pardons if they made the trip. Most did their jobs well and were rewarded on their return.

August 2: The small fleet set sail from Palos. Colón kept his ship's log in Latin, and signed it with the name the English-speaking world knows him by, Cristoforus Columbus.

August 6: Pinta's rudder became dislodged. She was sent to Las Palmas for repairs while the other two ships sailed to Gomera, in the Canary Islands. After reprovisioning Columbus sailed to Las Palmas to personally supervise repairs.

September 6: One month after the incident, Columbus's three ships finally departed San Sebastián for the west. Three days later they lost sight of their last landmark, the 12,000-foot peak known as Ferro.

September 24: After five days of rain, a sailor sighted land. He was mistaken.

October 1: There is yet more rain, which hinders progress but fills water barrels.

October 7: Another sailor sighted land, and again was wrong.

October 9: Martin Alonzo Pinzón, captain of the Pinta, recommended turning back. Columbus, knowing that food was becoming critical, promised that if land were not sighted in three days they would head for home.

October 12: At 2:00 a.m. Rodrigo de Triana, a lookout aboard Pinta, called out land. Martin Pinzón fired a gun to signal the Captain General. After waiting for the sun to rise Columbus took his fleet into a small bay. Around noon they rowed ashore and set foot on the New World. They were greeted by natives who, believing he has found the Indies, he calls 'Indians'.

October 14: Following two days of land exploration Columbus set sail with six natives as guides, going in search of 'Cipangu'.

October 28: After almost two weeks of exploring various islands, Columbus landed in what is now Bahia Barjay harbor on Cuba. He called it San Salvador.

November 2: Everywhere Columbus went he met locals who told him he would find gold and riches at the next place they went to. Convinced they were on the mainland he sent two men, Rodrigo de Jerez and Luis de Torres, inland, thingking they would find 'The Great Khan'.

November 6: The two 'ambassadors' returned. They hadn't found any large cities, but they had seen locals ingaling the smoke from rolled leaves. The Europeans have discovered smoking.

November 22: After two weeks of sailing up and down the Cuban coast, Martin Pinzón took Pinta and abandoned the other two ships in an attempt to be the first to land on Babeque, where there was rumored to be large quantities of gold.

December 5: After several landfalls Columbus sailed around Cuba, headed for Haiti.

December 25: After three weeks of exploring the area around Haiti and Tortuga, on Christmas Day Santa Maria was wrecked on a shoal. The crew all survived but the ship was lost.

December 26: With not enough room aboard the tiny Niña, Columbus decided to leave a colony behind. Twenty-one men volunteered, and they started building a fort with the timbers from Santa Maria. All during this time Columbus kept hearing from the natives that they knew the whereabouts of Pinzón and Pinta.

[Sailor Steve]

1493

January 4: Niña set sail for home.

January 6: Pinta was sighted, and joined Niña for the homeward voyage.

February 13: Niña and Pinta were separated by a storm that nearly wrecked both caravels.

February 15: Land was sighted, but due to the storm Niña was unable to land for three more days.

February 18: Niña dropped anchor by the village of Nossa Senhora dos Anjos, on the island of Santa Maria in the Azores.

February 19: Half the crew went ashore to attend mass for their safe delivery from the storm. The mayor of the island, Juan de Castaneda, arrested them and locked them in the local jail. When the mayor called on Columbus, the admiral demanded to know why they were being treated this way. The mayor replied that it was Portuguese territory and demanded that Columbus leave immediately. Columbus threatened to level the town with his four cannon and take one hundred Portuguese back to Spain as captives.

February 20: another storm blew Niña out to sea, and Columbus headed for the island of San Miguel.

February 21: Unable to find San Miguel, Columbus returned to Santa Maria.

The mayor of Nossa Senhora demanded to see Columbus's charter form the Spanish sovereigns. After verifying his credentials, and believing the admiral might do what he threatened, Castaneda released the Niña's crew and gave them provisions.

March 1: After weathering yet another storm Niña put into Bayona, in northern Spain. Martin Pinzón, believing Columbus to be dead, wrote to their Sovereign Majesties asking permission to come to court and give a report of the voyage. He was told that they would wait until they heard from their Admiral.

March 4: A battered Niña put into port at Lisbon. Columbus was risking capture by the Portuguese, but the little caravel was in no condition to sail any further without repairs.

March 8: Columbus received a letter from King João II, inviting him to come to court.

March 13: After recieving assurances from King João that he has only friendship for their Majesties of Spain and the admiral himself, Columbus sails in the refurbished ship.

March 15: Niña sailed into Palos harbor. Later the same day Pinta puts into port. Columbus would go on to fame and glory. Pinzón, devastated by his experiences, died within a few weeks of his homecoming.

Aftermath: Columbus considered Niña to be a lucky ship, and she accompanied him on his other three voyages. On the second voyage Columbus discovered a large groupe of islands. Reminded of a legend of a group of young nuns slaughtered while on a pilgrimage, Columbus called them Las Once Mil Virgenes, the Virgin Islands.

I have a lot more about all the explorers of the period, but today is Columbus day so I'll stop here.




Information was all from The European Discovery of America and Admiral of the Ocean Sea, both by Samuel Eliot Morison

[Gerald]

Interesting reading, :yep:

[soopaman2]

I am glad an Italian found the place, I just wish it was not done with Spanish money.

Dontcha know anyone of European descent is evil in America now?

My family showed up in the early 1900s, yet I am still a(n ex slave owning) cracker to some, and a smallpox blanket giving jerk off to others.

This holiday is sensitive to some, and I get that, but how far back can we go to blame others?

[Cybermat47]

520th anniversary of a guy arriving in a place that a Greenlander found hundreds of years before and said guy going around chopping of Native's hands when they said "I don't want to be christian"

[Cybermat47]

This holiday is sensitive to some, and I get that, but how far back can we go to blame others?

I know.
People shouldn't judge others on the actions of their ancestors or, even worse, national stereotypes.

But, as I say above, Columbus was a massive, extremist jerk, who, contrary to popular belief, died rich and comfortable.

[soopaman2]

Cortez is seen as an even bigger hero, and he massacred millions willingly, with guns and cannon.

Columbus did most his damage through disease the natives lacked immunity to.

It is what it is, I just wish folks would stop harping on the past, considering none of us had anything to do with it.

[Jimbuna]

When you consider it was 520 years ago then consider how recently America gained independance it brings into perspective just how young a country she is.

[Oberon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQLqZASplc0

[Sailor Steve]

520th anniversary of a guy arriving in a place that a Greenlander found hundreds of years before
I also did a timeline of Leif Erikson's voyages. The problem is that the Norwegian/Iceland/Greenland folks didn't stay. It's like saying the Wright Brothers weren't really the first to fly. They weren't, but they were the first to repeat the experiment and show how it should be done. No, Columbus wasn't the first, but he was the one who made it stick and showed the rest of the world how to do it.

and said guy going around chopping of Native's hands when they said "I don't want to be christian"
Do you have any evidence for that claim? Surviving records indicate that Columbus tried to stop the abuse of the natives, and it was the Hidalgos who perpetrated it. If you don't know who they were I'll gladly explain.

[Takeda Shingen]

520th anniversary of a guy arriving in a place that a Greenlander found hundreds of years before and said guy going around chopping of Native's hands when they said "I don't want to be christian"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_colonization_of_the_Americas

It is unclear why the short-term settlements did not become permanent, though it was in part because of hostile relations with the indigenous peoples, referred to as Skrælings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skr%C3%A6lings) by the Norse.

Vikings hostile to outsiders? Never.

[Sailor Steve]

IBut, as I say above, Columbus was a massive, extremist jerk,
In some ways, yes. Most men of conviction are.

who, contrary to popular belief, died rich and comfortable.
Comfortable, yes. Rich? No. In fact he embraced his faith more fully in his last years and wrote two books on religion. Since he had been deposed as Governor the crown never paid him the promised 10%, and his heirs sued the monarchs in a protracted set of cases lasting eighteen years. The family eventually won the cases, and recieved a perpetual allotment from the crown.

[Hottentot]

A few years ago I read a translated logbook of Columbus. It was a fascinating document not so much because of the events it described, but more because it gave a great insight into how Columbus and his men thought and saw the world. It was a great glimpse to its era.

Their encounters with the natives were especially great, with Columbus being sure that this is India, these people are the natives of the famous land and when they talked about their wars with the other tribes, they in fact meant the "Great Khan" of the East that Columbus was also looking forward to meet if I recall.

Easy to read as well, the entries were fairly short.

[Armistead]

Do you have any evidence for that claim? Surviving records indicate that Columbus tried to stop the abuse of the natives, and it was the Hidalgos who perpetrated it. If you don't know who they were I'll gladly explain.


I think his point was we eventuallly stole from and killed most the natives we couldn't convert. Course our diseases killed as much. I agree this was not so much during the period of Columbus.

[Sailor Steve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQLqZASplc0
I hated that movie, and the other one that came out the same year. Much better was the joint Spanish-American miniseries that came out in 1985, with Gabriel Byrne as Cristoforo Colombo (they used the real names), Faye Dunaway as Isabella, Nicol Williamson as Ferdinand, Max von Sydow as King John of Portugal, and Oliver Reed as Martin Pinzon.

It was an absolutely spectacular historical piece, with most of the major players portrayed, and spanning five hours.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088916/

The bad news is that it has never been released on DVD, at least not to the American market. There is a Region 2 release from Denmark, in English with Danish, Norwegian and Swedish subtitles.

[Sailor Steve]

I think his point was we eventuallly stole from and killed most the natives we couldn't convert. Course our diseases killed as much. I agree this was not so much during the period of Columbus.
I agree, and I think it started right then and there. My point is that the best evidence indicates that Columbus himself wasn't involved.

I read a lovely book a couple of years ago (I can't remember the name offhand) that explained how English traders and military men tried to "free" the natives from Spanish abuses, then turned around and did the same things themselves. They didn't really care; it was just an excuse to get the natives to rebel. All they were really after was their piece of the pie.

[Cybermat47]

I read a lovely book a couple of years ago (I can't remember the name offhand) that explained how English traders and military men tried to "free" the natives from Spanish abuses, then turned around and did the same things themselves. They didn't really care; it was just an excuse to get the natives to rebel. All they were really after was their piece of the pie.

Like the American-Spanish war!

Do you have any evidence for that claim? Surviving records indicate that Columbus tried to stop the abuse of the natives, and it was the Hidalgos who perpetrated it. If you don't know who they were I'll gladly explain.

This is what I love about subsim.
The ability for a bunch of intelligent people to have debates with each other! :sunny:

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks for the write up, Steve, I enjoyed reading it. It's amazing that it took years for CC to get his funding and voyage set up.

[CCIP]

Very informative! Admittedly this period and topic is one of my weak areas in history, so I've learned something very good indeed here :)

[Armistead]

I agree, and I think it started right then and there. My point is that the best evidence indicates that Columbus himself wasn't involved.

I read a lovely book a couple of years ago (I can't remember the name offhand) that explained how English traders and military men tried to "free" the natives from Spanish abuses, then turned around and did the same things themselves. They didn't really care; it was just an excuse to get the natives to rebel. All they were really after was their piece of the pie.

Sadly, missionary work then was more about economics, first came explorers, soldiers, traders, then missions followed. One large recent debate I got into was how the gospel was spread based on economics, makes the more fundy believers rather upset.

However, there were some missionairies that were furious how the natives were treated and knew it would take decades if not generations to convert them, but that wasn't acceptable to the overall plan. Many of these were replaced by more political religious figures that pushed more a convert or die plan.

Ending, how can you blame the natives for refusing our culture and beliefs, we were killing them and taking all they knew, so they stuck with the old ways and most fought to their deaths through the 1800's.

[Sailor Steve]

Sadly, missionary work then was more about economics, first came explorers, soldiers, traders, then missions followed. One large recent debate I got into was how the gospel was spread based on economics, makes the more fundy believers rather upset.
I'm right in the middle of reading a whole series of books by naval historian Peter Padfield, making the case that virtually all exploration and all naval combat from 1450 through 1800 was about economics, and trying to get the big share of the pie. Vasco da Gama made the Portuguese trade to India work, mostly facing opposition from and waging war against the Muslim merchants who already had a monopoly on the trade in the area.

Those believers might be even more upset if they knew the real causes behind the Spanish Armada and the attempted invasion of England in 1588. King Phillip II of Spain had been married to Mary Tudor, daughter of Henry VIII. Mary was the daughter of Catherine of Aragon (herself the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella!), and she was trying to restore Catholicism as the primary Faith, at sword's point, of course. When she died her younger sister Elizabeth became Queen, and being the daughter of Anne Boleyn she was of course a good Protestant. At that time if she married she would likely relinquish all her power to her husband, so she played several Royal suitors off each other, promising to marry several, or at least promising to think about it. Phillip got so annoyed that he petitioned the Pope to give him men and money to subjugate England. The Pope told him he would get nothing, because his enterprise had nothing to do with religion and faith, being rather about greed and revenge. When Mary Stuart, "Queen of Scotts" was executed for plotting against her cousin Elizabeth, then the Pope started demanding that Phillip go and attack England.

Then there were the Anglo-Dutch wars of the 1600s, but in that case both sides freely admitted that they really were wars to control trade by sea.

Ending, how can you blame the natives for refusing our culture and beliefs, we were killing them and taking all they knew, so they stuck with the old ways and most fought to their deaths through the 1800's.
Sure Cortez and others killed the kings and chiefs, and wiped out major civilizations, but mostly the Spaniards weren't so much interested in killing the natives as enslaving them. After all, free labor was needed to mine all that silver so "good" Englishmen like Drake and Hawkins could steal it from them on the way home. On the other hand I'm not sure if the colonists at Jamestown did anything to deserve being slaughtered by locals in 1607. Details are sketchy at best, and the Europeans never had a monopoly on killing people to get their goods and land.

It's a cruel world.

[u crank]

Very good stuff Steve. It's funny how much more complicated the story is than what you learn in school. So much personal and political intrigue.

One thing that always amazed me was the time line. From the landing on San Salvador in Oct. 1492 to the conquest by Cortés was a little over twenty years. This to me seems like a very short time considering the lines of communication and supply. And again a lot of intrigue and personal ambition to stir the pot. Rather than a conquest by Spain, it was a group of very ambitious individuals looking for fame and fortune. And there was a lot of competition as to who would lead this adventure.


Sure Cortez and others killed the kings and chiefs, and wiped out major civilizations, but mostly the Spaniards weren't so much interested in killing the natives as enslaving them. After all, free labor was needed to mine all that silver so "good" Englishmen like Drake and Hawkins could steal it from them on the way home. On the other hand I'm not sure if the colonists at Jamestown did anything to deserve being slaughtered by locals in 1607. Details are sketchy at best, and the Europeans never had a monopoly on killing people to get their goods and land.

It's a cruel world.

Yes and it's not at all strange that it was about money and religion.

A book I read a few years ago that I found interesting.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/108490.The_Conquest_of_New_Spain

A first hand account of Hernán Cortés' conquest by one of his conquistadors, Bernal Díaz del Castillo. Amazing and controversial story. And yes, it is a cruel world.

[Sailor Steve]

It's funny how much more complicated the story is than what you learn in school. So much personal and political intrigue.
What made me fall in love with history was the realization that these were real people, doing real things and living real lives. My biggest regret is that this didn't happen for me until I was almost 40. I've read biographies of American heroes (Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and most recently John Marshall), British kings and leaders, histories of civilizations and nations and genres (Grand Prix racing from 1892 to the 1970s) and of course naval history, including the development of different ship classes and the history of fire control at sea. There is so much to learn. I hate walking into our big Salt Lake City library, simply because all I see is thousands of books that I'll never get to read.

My late friend Rocky once said that it wasn't until he was 30 that he was possessed by a desire to find his old high-school history teacher and beat the crap out of him for making it so boring!

Yes and it's not at all strange that it was about money and religion.
No, it's not, but it came as a surprise to me. I just don't think that way, and finding out that others do forced me to realize that there are people far different from me.

A book I read a few years ago that I found interesting.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/108490.The_Conquest_of_New_Spain

A first hand account of Hernán Cortés' conquest by one of his conquistadors, Bernal Díaz del Castillo. Amazing and controversial story. And yes, it is a cruel world.
Never heard of it, but it's on my list now. Thanks! :rock:

[Hottentot]

What made me fall in love with history was the realization that these were real people, doing real things and living real lives. My biggest regret is that this didn't happen for me until I was almost 40.

Glad to hear you at least realized it yourself. There are plenty of people who won't and to them, it seems to me, history is not about what human beings have done or quite as often failed to do. It's a series of events, series of names, series of numbers, series of anything you can imagine. Neat, separate blocks that they then start categorizing: us and them, good and evil, black and white. It's a scary way to approach the past.

Us historians are not above the blame for this. Things are changing here, it's seen everywhere on the field (pedagogy, research, museums, you name it), but it won't happen in a day. More like in a generation or two and where it goes from there, nobody knows yet.

[Sailor Steve]

"In fourteen-hundred and ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue."

What more does anyone need to know?
:rotfl2:

[Hottentot]

"In fourteen-hundred and ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue."

What more does anyone need to know?
:rotfl2:

It depends. Who did he vote for?

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl2: :rock:

[Armistead]

SS,

Have you been to the Jamestown settlement? I do some metal detecting about a mile from it when I go hunting in Va.

I love history, always have, mostly the Civil War era. I've been metal detecting for about 25 years. The more I dug from the ground, the more I studied.

Lately, I've been into hunting indian relics, mostly arrowheads. One of my good friends has a massive indian relic collection. Since he was a kid he has picked up 1000's of them on family land, usually after they plow. His collection has been studied and several museums have asked for it. Now I'm a big fan of our local indian history. We've been told most of what he has is from the Keyauwee tribe, although he also has lot's of stuff from what appeard to be later Cherokee.

[Sailor Steve]

SS,

Have you been to the Jamestown settlement?
Nope. Never been to Virginia, though I almost moved there in 1998. One of the many places I've always wanted to see.

[Cybermat47]

Well, things sure have changed!

Back in those days, people killed natives and considered it 'God's work', and you were sent to prison or executed if you were gay.

Now days, you have people sending you death threats if you say something rascist, and the majority of people believe in gay rights (in Australia, 70% of Christians supported gay marriage!)