View Full Version : Ahmadinejad's cameraman defects
TLAM Strike
10-01-12, 01:53 PM
A cameraman who accompanied Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to New York for the U.N. General Assembly has applied for asylum in the United States, his attorney said Monday.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/01/world/new-york-iran-cameraman/index.html
I hope everything turns out well for him and I hope his family got out somehow as well.
Always in these kinds of regimes, it is risky to make defection considering the possible consequences for his family.
TLAM Strike
10-01-12, 02:13 PM
Always in these kinds of regimes, it is risky to make defection considering the possible consequences for his family.
Yea the consequences in Iran involve a length of rope and a piece of construction equipment in town square. (I guess they are saving the bullets for the Israelis, CENTCOM and the 5th Fleet.)
Of course to them we are the ones who are evil. :nope:
When you see a person hanging from a rope whose only crime was blogging, or being gay, or drinking a damn beer you realize that such a society doesn't deserve to inhabit the same planet as us. :down:
Stealhead
10-01-12, 02:17 PM
He must have known about this trip several months in advance and likely arranged things so that his family or at least immediate family where safe maybe they took a trip some place at the same time I'm sure that he thought of it.You don't just simply up and defect all of a sudden he probably had this planned out for some time.Persians tend to have very strong family ties.If he was allowed to go on this trip to New York then he was considered trust worthy and probably he and his family could travel outside of Iran.I bet his wife and kids took a trip some place at the last minute.
Even a place like Turkey is safer than Iran for the time being.You dont want to end up like that 15 year old girl that got shoot in the heart I'd love to show that triggerman my marksmanship only I would not shoot him in the heart but in the spleen so he takes a long long time to bleed out and make sure that his body lays out all night for the dogs..Still to hit someone in the heart you know what your shooting at so he knew that she just a bystander and shoot her anyway.
At best, a planned defection, so that the family were able to leave the country before his defection became public, which would be a significantly better outcome...:hmmm:
Stealhead
10-01-12, 02:36 PM
They could always go to a Western European embassy and request asylum right in Iran that is what they usually do he did his in New York specifically so that the entire world knows about it.They just had it timed out so that no one got suspicious either way.They could go to the Swedish Embassy.
TLAM Strike
10-01-12, 02:42 PM
They could always go to a Western European embassy and request asylum right in Iran that is what they usually do he did his in New York specifically so that the entire world knows about it.They just had it timed out so that no one got suspicious either way.
Still would have the problem of getting out of the country. The Iranians don't really care much about the sanctity of foreign embassies. Plus getting from the embassy to the airport would be difficult considering how much IRGC is around.
I would think they either drove to Baku or hopped on the ferry to Dubai.
It's true, many people have already done that ... but not all, are allow to come here over to the border like that.
Stealhead
10-01-12, 02:53 PM
Thats true any old Joe they would not care as much but a guy like that they might just a slight bit irritated to say the least.A little road trip seems less suspicious.
This makes me think of the Iraqi Air Force pilot that flew the Mig-21 to Israel back in the 60's and they had pre arranged to have something like 25 family members leave Iraq I think that was even part of the deal that the pilot insisted on.Captain Munir Redfa was the guys name that was a Mossad operation they seem pretty good at convincing people as recent events in Iran seem to prove you'd need local nationals to pull that stuff off money is very convincing though they are likely some what in agreement and the money boosts it.
Stealhead
10-01-12, 03:01 PM
Which one:03:
I meant what occurred in 1966,:arrgh!:
Jimbuna
10-01-12, 03:53 PM
Still would have the problem of getting out of the country. The Iranians don't really care much about the sanctity of foreign embassies. Plus getting from the embassy to the airport would be difficult considering how much IRGC is around.
I would think they either drove to Baku or hopped on the ferry to Dubai.
Probably the latter....good luck is all I can say.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/01/world/new-york-iran-cameraman/index.html
I hope everything turns out well for him and I hope his family got out somehow as well.
Putrid occidental propaganda to be smelled for miles around, always the same scenario and still, quite a few just swallow it all like little obedient children, believing in their flag and authority for acting like no other country on foreign soil, just as others believe in God. Did you even think about getting to know what Ahmadinejad did for his countrymen on the social and economical levels, or the way the female condition is handled in this country, or even what he did for the youth when he was Tehran's mayor years ago ? Just stop reading the Times, man, or you'll end up crazy.
Don't worry. Soon the oh so rightful Occidental news will let you know about gas chambers built under Mahmoud's regime. Probably right after he'll commit suicide with his wife in some casbah-like bunker. :haha:
Jimbuna
10-01-12, 04:22 PM
What's all that about Alex? :hmm2:
The right to stand for the values of a country blamed for living another way than the Occident, before the nuclear holocaust takes place. Let me state again that people definitely should make themselves familiar with some neutral news before posting anything related to criticism, condemnation of a political regime, and all that stuff.
Tribesman
10-01-12, 05:24 PM
What's all that about Alex? :hmm2:
Thats easy. Iran is in the topic, the Iranian regime has a attitude problem over Israel, Alex hates Jews so Iran must be right and all the rest of you are swallowing the media which is of course ....the jews.
Get with the program Jim, you don't expect a mind like that to make sense do you?
TLAM Strike
10-01-12, 05:33 PM
Putrid occidental propaganda to be smelled for miles around, always the same scenario and still, quite a few just swallow it all like little obedient children, believing in their flag and authority for acting like no other country on foreign soil, just as others believe in God. Did you even think about getting to know what Ahmadinejad did for his countrymen on the social and economical levels, or the way the female condition is handled in this country, or even what he did for the youth when he was Tehran's mayor years ago ? Just stop reading the Times, man, or you'll end up crazy.
Don't worry. Soon the oh so rightful Occidental news will let you know about gas chambers built under Mahmoud's regime. Probably right after he'll commit suicide with his wife in some casbah-like bunker. :haha:
What Ahmadinejad did while mayor? He segregated City Hall. He spent $17 Million renovating the Jamkaran mosque (plus however much the new railroad line and grand avenue in Tehran costed) in preparation for the coming of the 12th Imam (and the massive doomsday battle that is prophesied to follow). Oh and he shut down everyone's favorite fast food restaurants.
As President his country has seen the price of poultry skyrocket as much as their currency has inflated, if not more. We are seeing gender segregation becoming common place. ... and the killings...
THIS is what Ahmadinejad, plus the Mullahs and their IRGC cronies are doing to Iran:
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/4434/hangingaround.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img210/5016/iran2bcrane2bexecutions.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img42/1862/atefahsahaaleh.jpg
(These are the tame photos.)
"O mighty Lord, I pray to you to hasten the emergence of your last repository, the promised one, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace." (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2005/iran-050918-irna02.htm)
-President Ahmadinejad speech at UN Sept 17 2005
If THAT is the kind of justice and peace he wants to fill the world with, I say: NO THANK YOU! :stare:
(Actually I would say something very different but I'm not going to post it here.)
You do not need it, there are no words that cover...:nope:
Stealhead
10-01-12, 06:50 PM
The Occident is that a shape I did not learn about in school?:hmmm: That was a rhetorical question I know what it actually means and the fantasy meanings as well .
I like how he assumes that we rely on main stream media.CNN does not even no where Baku is.
And you have the nerve to say that we are basically stupid yet your sig gives us rather large clue that your sources of information are highly reliable.....at being complete poppycock(Limit that this site allows me to say).
Go to Iran and give Ahmadinejad a high five for all his good work why dont you judging buy your sig you guys would make fast friends.
Penguin
10-03-12, 06:30 AM
Allright, let's check out some neutral news sources from Iran. How about a newspaper called Shargh? Ups, sorry, got closed down. At about the same time, while the defender of liberty talked at the UN about "freedom": Controversial cartoon led to ban on reformist Iranian newspaper (http://www.yourmiddleeast.com/news/controversial-cartoon-led-to-ban-on-reformist-iranian-newspaper_9805)
Ok, how about a blog? Damned, can't blog from prison. Imprisoned Blogger/HR Activist Hossein Ronaghi Maleki Is In Dire Condition In Tabriz Prison (http://persianbanoo.wordpress.com/)
Btw, the first site, yourmiddleeast.com, is a pretty good newssource regarding the ME, trying to keep a neutral stance.
Another good page about Iran is persian2english.com - however they keep an eye on this weird western-occidental concept of human rights and unneccessary stuff like that...
Penguin
10-03-12, 06:33 AM
The Occident is that a shape I did not learn about in school?:hmmm:
I can understand that. After all you are just a backwards peckerwood who lives in the swamps of Florida. Educated only by the zionist US media, never got out of America, who probably can't point on a map where Iran is and who never talked to people from there.
:know::O:
What Ahmadinejad did while mayor? He segregated City Hall. He spent $17 Million renovating the Jamkaran mosque (plus however much the new railroad line and grand avenue in Tehran costed) in preparation for the coming of the 12th Imam (and the massive doomsday battle that is prophesied to follow). Oh and he shut down everyone's favorite fast food restaurants.
As President his country has seen the price of poultry skyrocket as much as their currency has inflated, if not more. We are seeing gender segregation becoming common place. ... and the killings...
THIS is what Ahmadinejad, plus the Mullahs and their IRGC cronies are doing to Iran:
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/4434/hangingaround.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img210/5016/iran2bcrane2bexecutions.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img42/1862/atefahsahaaleh.jpg
(These are the tame photos.)
Oh noes !
So THAT is Iran !
I just can't believe it !
I don't know how to thank you enough for posting these pictures in here ! Thanks for denouncing and condemning the injustice, Sir ! I've got to quote your message, and really, I'm with you on that cause, I feel better now that they're posted one more time in this thread ! Now let's all gather together in the streets and stand for the rights of the Iranian people !
[/irony]
Pictures are very influential. Now the average guy needs to say he's strongly against Iran, and feels like a patriot.
Food for the ignorant.
If THAT is the kind of justice and peace he wants to fill the world with, I say: NO THANK YOU! :stare:
Ah, things you've got to know through sites standing for the same values and power that is yours. No need to care about what others say about your country, nor WHY : you're constantly right, so you just don't need to care about what others think.
According to this kind people you seem to be part of, basically anything not based on your own judiciary system/actual values/support of your economy/etc. is not worth existing. I don't mean the iranian government nor judiciary system has got my support, but Iran is a sovereign state that is perfectly able to figure out who deserves this kind of treatment nowadays, just like many states in your country do - even though different methods of execution are applied in your country, the objective to be achieved is still the same : death. So I'm still trying to figure out how a person living in your country can feel the need to interfere with the right of another country to do the same as what is done where you live, haha. In fact, and with all due respect to you (sincerely !), what is your role there, are you just arguing in favour of the lethal injection that is valid in your country instead of the death by hanging ?
Also, can you let me know how can you (and others) consider yourself a valid person to put into question iranian courts' ability to decide on who deserves such a sentence, while it is obvious that you just care about what your tv and medias say, and consequently can't have an overall view of the situation worldwide on that matter ?
Other than that, it is almost offensive to me to see you posting a bunch of pictures supposed to have been taken in Iran (When ? Where ? Who are the murderers, and what about their counts of indictment ?), while you've got absolutely no idea about their validity.
Takeda Shingen
10-03-12, 03:12 PM
Ah, things you've got to know through sites standing for the same values and power that is yours. No need to care about what others say about your country, nor WHY : you're constantly right, so you just don't need to care about what others think.
Actually, the only person that I see with that attitude in this thread is you.
TLAM Strike
10-03-12, 04:38 PM
Oh noes !
So THAT is Iran !
I just can't believe it !
I don't know how to thank you enough for posting these pictures in here ! Thanks for denouncing and condemning the injustice, Sir ! I've got to quote your message, and really, I'm with you on that cause, I feel better now that they're posted one more time in this thread ! Now let's all gather together in the streets and stand for the rights of the Iranian people !
[/irony]
Pictures are very influential. Now the average guy needs to say he's strongly against Iran, and feels like a patriot.
Food for the ignorant.
I don't need to say anything, I do things.
Reports I've helped to write have been used by The Burke Chair at CSIS; The Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Ah, things you've got to know through sites standing for the same values and power that is yours. No need to care about what others say about your country, nor WHY : you're constantly right, so you just don't need to care about what others think.
According to this kind people you seem to be part of, basically anything not based on your own judiciary system/actual values/support of your economy/etc. is not worth existing. I don't mean the iranian government nor judiciary system has got my support, but Iran is a sovereign state that is perfectly able to figure out who deserves this kind of treatment nowadays, just like many states in your country do - even though different methods of execution are applied in your country, the objective to be achieved is still the same : death. So I'm still trying to figure out how a person living in your country can feel the need to interfere with the right of another country to do the same as what is done where you live, haha. In fact, and with all due respect to you (sincerely !), what is your role there, are you just arguing in favour of the lethal injection that is valid in your country instead of the death by hanging ?
Also, can you let me know how can you (and others) consider yourself a valid person to put into question iranian courts' ability to decide on who deserves such a sentence, while it is obvious that you just care about what your tv and medias say, and consequently can't have an overall view of the situation worldwide on that matter ?
If you were paying attention you would notice I'm from New York. The NYS Court of Appeals ruled the death penalty unconstitutional (in regards to the state constitution) in People v. LaValle. Except for a few years under Pataki NYS has been without a death penalty since Furman v. Georgia, and hasn't executed a prisoner since '63. I can say I've never voted for anyone who said bring it back either.
Sovereignty of a state does not give it total control of its citizens nor give it the right to strip their freedoms away. And you are right, I stand with anyone who supports the values of freedom because those who don't, well we have words for them.
And btw I do listen to what people who don't support my country's values say, especially their leaders, and if others did like I do they wouldn't sleep at night.
Other than that, it is almost offensive to me to see you posting a bunch of pictures supposed to have been taken in Iran (When ? Where ? Who are the murderers, and what about their counts of indictment ?), while you've got absolutely no idea about their validity.
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/4434/hangingaround.jpg
Occurred on or about July 26, 2008. 30 People were executed including several for crimes of be drunk in public, what we could call disturbing the peace or endangering public safety, and having an adulterous relationship.
http://imageshack.us/a/img210/5016/iran2bcrane2bexecutions.jpg
Occurred on or about July 23, 2007. The three executed (two males, one female) were convicted of adultery.
http://imageshack.us/a/img42/1862/atefahsahaaleh.jpg
Occurred on August 15, 2004. The executed was convicted of being raped by a 50 year old taxi driver (she was only 16 BTW). Her name was Atefah.
Stealhead
10-03-12, 04:46 PM
Response of the year right there.
Sailor Steve
10-03-12, 04:49 PM
Response of the year right there.
Proper debate tactics: If someone challenges your statement, show facts. It shouldn't be the response of the year, it should be every response. For TLAM it usually is. :sunny:
u crank
10-03-12, 04:51 PM
Response of the year right there.
Agree. Well done TLAM. :salute:
Stealhead
10-03-12, 05:55 PM
Proper debate tactics: If someone challenges your statement, show facts. It shouldn't be the response of the year, it should be every response. For TLAM it usually is. :sunny:
I thought in debates you are supposed to completely evade questions that you dont like and instead completely belittle the other persons opinion and ideally that person in general.:03:
Lord_magerius
10-03-12, 09:12 PM
That's the way it works in politics Stealhead, on these forums, it's a case of those who have facts and those who dispute them, with some crazy ideologies that would get them banned on most forums.
If you were paying attention you would notice I'm from New York. The NYS Court of Appeals ruled the death penalty unconstitutional (in regards to the state constitution) in People v. LaValle. Except for a few years under Pataki NYS has been without a death penalty since Furman v. Georgia, and hasn't executed a prisoner since '63. I can say I've never voted for anyone who said bring it back either.
I see. Please, can you let me know in your opinion if you think that anyone coming from about anywhere in the world considers yourself more as a member of the state of NY, than as a citizen of the united states of America ? For anyone who's got to live in your country, that may well be the case. But for everyone else, you're an American, period. Because the consideration as a nation is far superior to the one of the state. To be honest, and in order to give you a rough idea of the way you look saying this kind of thing in my opinion, it's just as if your whole family was living in the same street, and that you decided to break away from some of your family members due to the fact that some of them are responsible for acting a certain way going against your moral, while the family and its name (are supposed to) go far beyond the way individuals are appreciated in society. I don't want that to sound like a cheap metaphor, but this is indeed the impression conveyed by your morals and way of thinking.
Your nation is responsible for such behaviours too (I mean administration of the death penalty), and consequently that sullies the reputation of your whole population since that makes you (as a nation) responsible in some way for what is done where your flag flies. No matter where it is done exactly : it is your nation, and citizen of the same country are supposed to support each other. The break away between citizen of the same nation has got no sense nor significance. I understand very well the fact that you may dislike what happens in some parts of your country, but still you just can't do anything else than taking in consideration what gets to be done in your nation too, because that is proper citizenship. So, switching back to what you just mentioned about executions in Iran, the advice would indeed be "put your own house in order before daring to criticize other people".
I must admit that I was somehow expecting such a reply from you. But I didn't want to admit in advance that you were going to reply my post that way.
Sovereignty of a state does not give it total control of its citizens nor give it the right to strip their freedoms away. And you are right, I stand with anyone who supports the values of freedom because those who don't, well we have words for them.
And btw I do listen to what people who don't support my country's values say, especially their leaders, and if others did like I do they wouldn't sleep at night.
Regarding what I think about Iran, my stance on what you consider to be the iranian problem is not to let everyone know that you're wrong, and that I am right. The only things I wish everyone (including yourself) to remember when watching tv and checking news on the internet, are the fact that considering the policy of economical support through war your country has got since decades (you're familiar with your own History so you don't need me to remind you about all the wars your country has got to be involved in just for the last 50 years, for example), and the fact that your government definitely having a bias towards one side of the belligerents should also be taken in consideration (you're supporting a country in the Middle-East, and this is not Iran, but its worst enemy), absolutely everyone is entitled to wonder about the soundness of the intentions of the authorities in force in your country nowadays who want you to read and watch news related to a country towards which you absolutely are neutral in no way.
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/4434/hangingaround.jpg
Occurred on or about July 26, 2008. 30 People were executed including several for crimes of be drunk in public, what we could call disturbing the peace or endangering public safety, and having an adulterous relationship.
http://imageshack.us/a/img210/5016/iran2bcrane2bexecutions.jpg
Occurred on or about July 23, 2007. The three executed (two males, one female) were convicted of adultery.
http://imageshack.us/a/img42/1862/atefahsahaaleh.jpg
Occurred on August 15, 2004. The executed was convicted of being raped by a 50 year old taxi driver (she was only 16 BTW). Her name was Atefah.
Posting these pictures one more time doesn't hurt.
I feel the anger. And the next war to come. Haha.
Now, regarding the informations related to the executions of which you've got to post a few pictures. Don't tell me you've got blind faith in that stuff mentioned by people who want you to get nervous over data of which you just can't check out the validity by yourself in a reliable way, with reference to many medias from many countries, making you able to get a neutral overview of this problem. For the sake of your honour, can you let me know how can you consider your medias to bring you reliable data related to the iranian matter, while it's unofficially established that a superior authority (call it an oligarchic association of bankers considering the people as meat, and the life of the soldiers as intangible assets they can use at will and don't need to care about - and don't tell me you didn't come up to that way of thinking following what gets to be done at Wall Street !) is doing its best to get you all against another country once again, in order to send one more time thousands of soldiers from your Nation to the abattoir in a still undeterminate future, with the only intention to erase the public debt.
To be considered valid and reliable, the publication of these photos and comments should have been confirmed and authorised by all the powers at play, international journalists as well as iranian authorities. Apparently, we can consider these shots to have been taken furtively while everyone's back was turned (just like it's the case in one of the photos, in which we can see the back profile of 2 members of some iranian armed force) via a camera certainly not to be considered as the one of a regular journalist. So it is in fact quite obvious that these photos have been taken and quickly hosted on the internet by someone who didn't have good intentions towards the iranian regime, in order for some stupid patriot arseholes (wherever they're from) to end up feeling anger towards such an injustice in front of their screen, while it's established that any people in the world really has got no interest in doing so, and should rather constantly keep fighting for his own rights instead.
Something definitely makes me afraid. You all have got to mistrust your government, everyone of its decisions, as well as you've got to admit its responsibility in the constant state of war you're in, that didn't bring you much more than refrigerated aircraft bringing dead soldiers back to their homeland for their close ones to mourn their passing.
With all due respect to you TLAM, I hope the People from the united states of America has got an higher level of collective conscience than you seem to have as an individual. If it doesn't, you're all in for one more massive and unjustified spreading of your blood on foreign territory.
Of course, neither the country nor its judiciary system is supposed to be plenipotentiary. I'll never put that into question. But since everyone's got to take care about injustice at home first (the variety of communities you can find in your country causing many culture shocks supposed to call your attention to be resolved as fast as possible - while this is not the case in Iran, as the country didn't have to face any immigration, making things much smoother there on the social aspect as there's no clash of civilizations in Iran), can you let me know what/who brings you the legitimacy to show the will to resolve this kind of problems abroad before caring about the situation where you live ? If it's not one more possible war to be started over there that would end up reinvigorating your economy through the exploitation of natural ressources to be found on Iranian soil, I'd be interested in talking about what's got to make you American People so suitable to take offence at anything happening outside your country, as well as suitable to intervene militarily in the name of the human rights of other Peoples in the world.
Sounds like this is coming from Ahmadinejads office,lol You can throw out all the PR crap you want, you can't clean up his image or what he stands for, not in a million years.
Iran is not in any position to dictate anything to anyone. Your Ayatollah is not a religious man either, his strings are pulled by the Republican Guard. He's just a figure head, means nothing to anyone except those who are so deluded to think he is religious.
Why does Iran meddle in the affairs of Syria? Isn't Syria strong enough to go it alone, or is it weak like Iran!?! If you count Hezbollah as an ally, you are indeed a weak country. They are nothing but losers, whose exsistance means only something to themselves. Their fearless leader hides like a child, just like bin Laden, and he will be found just like OBL and dealt with in the same way.
You let al Sadr hide in your country, a known murderer, and you wonder why countries don't trust Iran? Why should we? Iran wants to be a world leader, but it isn't smart enough, wise enough, or strong enough to do so. I can't wait to see how the elections for its President gets fixed this time,lol
Takeda Shingen
10-04-12, 05:26 PM
Actually, I believe Alex is from France, although he has elected to remove his location from his profile in an attempt to clould the conversation; much in the way that he utilizes Victorian-era language to dress up his remarks. 'Occidental' sounds nicer than 'Zionist', but the latter is what he really means.
Tribesman
10-04-12, 05:37 PM
much in the way that he utilizes Victorian-era language to dress up his remarks. 'Occidental' sounds nicer than 'Zionist', but the latter is what he really means.
But surely as poor alex believes its a global jewish conpiracy it would encompass both the occidental and oriental world.
Then again as apparently the jews are supposed to run everything doesn't that mean that iamadinnerjacket is really a zionist agent.
Where ever he is from, matters little to me. When you hold up Iran as a model for the world to follow, he makes me gag.
TLAM Strike
10-04-12, 06:19 PM
I see. Please, can you let me know in your opinion if you think that anyone coming from about anywhere in the world considers yourself more as a member of the state of NY, than as a citizen of the united states of America ? For anyone who's got to live in your country, that may well be the case.
Stop right there. 'Who's got to' live in my country? Got To? No one has 'got to' live in America. I can drive less than a hundred miles and go live in Canada if I wanted to, after a few years I can become a Canadian and never come back to the US ever again. USBP has about zero say on if I cross the border into Canada (CBSA has a say because its there country, but about the only time the US would have any say is if I was fleeing arrest or some such).
WALL OF TEXT REMOVED :roll:
To be considered valid and reliable, the publication of these photos and comments should have been confirmed and authorised by all the powers at play, international journalists as well as iranian authorities. Apparently, we can consider these shots to have been taken furtively while everyone's back was turned (just like it's the case in one of the photos, in which we can see the back profile of 2 members of some iranian armed force) via a camera certainly not to be considered as the one of a regular journalist. So it is in fact quite obvious that these photos have been taken and quickly hosted on the internet by someone who didn't have good intentions towards the iranian regime, in order for some stupid patriot arseholes (wherever they're from) to end up feeling anger towards such an injustice in front of their screen, while it's established that any people in the world really has got no interest in doing so, and should rather constantly keep fighting for his own rights instead.
Are you insane?
Do you live in some totalitarian order where only official state sponsored publications exist and where all others are considered counter-revolutionary?
Here is a lovely example; This is a pair of Shabab-3 MRBM silos at Tabriz.
http://imageshack.us/a/img96/3832/irbmsilo.jpg
This image was captured on a satellite without permission from anyone in the Iranian regime. By your logic these silos do not exist, are invalid, or are the work of someone with ill intentions to the Iranian regime.
You ignore the fact that these sites exist and have birds in range of half of Europe because photos of their existence are not authorized by Tehran.
You are confusing 'Journalist' with 'Event Photographer'. A journalist is someone who goes out and records the truth, while the other takes official photographs. If a journalist goes out and takes a photo of say a murder that photo (and by extension that murder) does not become invalid because the murderer did not give permission for the photo to be taken!
Something definitely makes me afraid. You all have got to mistrust your government, everyone of its decisions, as well as you've got to admit its responsibility in the constant state of war you're in, that didn't bring you much more than refrigerated aircraft bringing dead soldiers back to their homeland for their close ones to mourn their passing.
With all due respect to you TLAM, I hope the People from the united states of America has got an higher level of collective conscience than you seem to have as an individual. If it doesn't, you're all in for one more massive and unjustified spreading of your blood on foreign territory.
Of course, neither the country nor its judiciary system is supposed to be plenipotentiary. I'll never put that into question. But since everyone's got to take care about injustice at home first (the variety of communities you can find in your country causing many culture shocks supposed to call your attention to be resolved as fast as possible - while this is not the case in Iran, as the country didn't have to face any immigration, making things much smoother there on the social aspect as there's no clash of civilizations in Iran), can you let me know what/who brings you the legitimacy to show the will to resolve this kind of problems abroad before caring about the situation where you live ? If it's not one more possible war to be started over there that would end up reinvigorating your economy through the exploitation of natural ressources to be found on Iranian soil, I'd be interested in talking about what's got to make you American People so suitable to take offence at anything happening outside your country, as well as suitable to intervene militarily in the name of the human rights of other Peoples in the world.
Ask any doctor whether you stop the bleeding in an artery or a vein first. Do you try to fix a country with minor problems or one that is murdering its own people wholesale?
But lets take a little trip. Lets explore two documents. One is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (I'm going to assume your are pro-human rights, but I can't be too sure) and the other is the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Iranian Penal Code.
(Please note that Iran signed the UDHR)
Iranian Penal Code Article 82: The penalty for adultery in the following cases shall be death, regardless of
the age or marital status
of the culprit: (1) Adultery with one’s consanguineous relatives (close blood relatives
forbidden to each other by
religious law); (2) Adultery with one’s stepmother in which the adulterer’s punishment
shall be death; (3)
Adultery between a non-Muslim man and a Muslim woman, in which case the adulterer (non-Muslim man) shall receive the death penalty;
(4) Forcible rape, in which case the rapist shall receive the
death penalty.
IPC Article 84: Old married adulterers and adulteresses shall be flogged before being stoned.
IPC Article 109: In case of sodomy both the active and the passive persons will be condemned to its punishment.
IPC Article 110: Punishment for sodomy is killing; the Sharia judge decides on how to carry out the killing.
IPC Article 129: Punishment for lesbianism is hundred (100) lashes for each party.
UDHR Article 5
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
CIRI Article 11 [Unity of Islam Principle]
In accordance with the sacred verse of the Koran "This your community is a single community, and I am your Lord, so worship Me" [21:92], all Muslims form a single nation, and the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran have the duty of formulating its general policies with a view to cultivating the friendship and unity of all Muslim peoples, and it must constantly strive to bring about the political, economic, and cultural unity of the Islamic world.
UDHR Article 15
1. Everyone has the right to a nationality.
2. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
CIRI Article 13 [Recognized Religious Minorities]
Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian Iranians are the only recognized religious minorities, who, within the limits of the law, are free to perform their religious rites and ceremonies, and to act according to their own canon in matters of personal affairs and religious education.
UDHR Article 18
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
IPC Article 640 – The following people should be imprisoned from three months to one year
and pay a fine of
1,500,000 to 6,000,000, and also be flogged up to 74 lashes, or any of these punishments.
c) anyone who publicizes any picture, text, photo, drawing, article, newsletter,
newspaper, movie, or any
other thing that violates public morals;
d) anyone who is included in the circulation of the above items;
Article 700 – Anyone who publicizes satiristis materials should be imprisoned from one
to six months.
UDHR Article 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
IPC Article 237: (1) First degree murder shall be proven by testimony of two just men; (2)
Evidence for second-degree9
murder or manslaughter shall consist in the testimony of two just men, or that of one just man and two just women, or the testimony of one just man and the sworn testimony of the accuser.
UDHR Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
You question my conscience? I would question the conscience of anyone who would ignore such draconian laws being implemented.
Ok I disagree strongly with some of what Alex says-but gotta jump to his defence here. I think what he is trying to say here is very simple.
Question everything you read/watch about other countries/cultures and especially what our political leaders say. Second that other nations have a right to organise their society in ways that might not meet our approval-we have a right to voice our dislike of it of course just as they do of ours-but just make sure it is based on objective facts as much as possible and be aware of other viewpoints. Gosh look at the number of times our American friends get justifiably irritated by foreign criticism especially when it is based on ignorance. That does not mean one is above criticism surely, just those based on stereotypes.
As for the threat from Iran, well my view is there is a lot of blame to go around. They support terrorism? Well so does the West. Iran has invaded zero countries in the last 30 years. How about the US? Iranian rhetoric disgusts me sometimes-but so does the extreme anti-muslim bigotry I've seen here and elsewhere. Finally let's recall that a lot of the mess the Middle East is in today is thanks to what France (yes France too), the UK and the US have done over the last century.
Tribesman
10-05-12, 06:23 AM
I think what he is trying to say here is very simple.
Question everything you read/watch about other countries/cultures and especially what our political leaders say.
No, what he is saying is america is evil and the jews run everything, so they are wrong and everything america or the media says is an american/ jewish lie.
It is fine to question everything, but if you are questioning everything from a fixed and immovable yet crazy viewpoint you are not actually questioning anything at all.
Apart from all that in relation to your attempt at defending that poster you make good points, but in this incident they simply do not come into play
Actually, I believe Alex is from France, although he has elected to remove his location from his profile in an attempt to clould the conversation; much in the way that he utilizes Victorian-era language to dress up his remarks. 'Occidental' sounds nicer than 'Zionist', but the latter is what he really means.
He's probably a Maurras type. I thought they died out with Vichy, but sadly it appears not. :hmm2:
TLAM Strike
10-05-12, 06:56 AM
He's probably a Maurras type. I thought they died out with Vichy, but sadly it appears not. :hmm2:
I guess like many of the Axis supporters from after the war he found a new job in supporting middle eastern anti-semitic dictatorships.
Catfish
10-05-12, 07:02 AM
I guess like many of the Axis supporters from after the war he found a new job in supporting middle eastern anti-semitic dictatorships.
You mean Shah Reza Pahlewi, Saddam Hussein and such ? :O:
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/1801096-badum_tish_super.jpg
Sorry, I couldn't resist... :haha:
iamadinnerjacket
ROFL
Thanks for the laugh, Tribesman.
He's probably a Maurras type.
Hey ! What a surprise. You Sir have got an education. I appreciate that. Maurras indeed rules. As well as a ton of other authors anyone's not supposed to read nor allow importance to considering their political stance or basic point of view concerning society, religion, etc. (including American people ! Man, I would have never expected Henry Ford to be such a great guy and self-taught sociologist at heart. He mentioned that the laborious and creative mind of the American working class, and the venal and unscrupulous one of "the Jews" definitely are set against each other, and denounces the stranglehold of that religious community on everything that makes the essence of a nation - education, sport, theater, cinema, music, newspapers, even religion - making it able to control and sap the very foundations of the nation, creating that way the causes of its own rejection : "as to the real and true cause of that persecution, namely the oppression of the People through the financial methods of the Jews, you will never get to hear nor to read about that" (taken from The International Jew, written by H. Ford). I've got to translate that one back to English, maybe it doesn't match the exact sentences from H. Ford. But well.
See, Oberon ? If you were an honest guy you just wouldn't be the philosemite you are, licking the **** of the same people all the time in order to fall into the line not to get any problem, haha.
but sadly it appears not.
"Sadly", eh ? The freedom of opinion and expression being the greatest and main component of a democratic system, your message shows that you've got to live in quite a strange country, Ob'. I hope you'll be able to relieve your mind of the everyday amount of bull you seem to hear about constantly at tv where you live, for your own sake.
Are you insane?
Do you live in some totalitarian order where only official state sponsored publications exist and where all others are considered counter-revolutionary?
Once again, you're talking here for the sake of talking.
Never did I talk about state sponsored publications.
What I meant is that these news/murders, to be considered satisfactorily reliable, should have been 1. eventually admitted and/or recognized in any way by the power in place following the violation of the country's will not to advertise the administration of capital punishment, therefore making these facts a reality in fact (taking in consideration the nature of the charges against the iranian regime, I'm sure you'll admit that was definitely not going to be the case there), and/or 2. reported by many medias from many countries, at the very least, in order for someone to be able to get a neutral view on this matter. You're feeling okay with these photos yourself, and I don't, because you apparently don't know that photos can be great tools for the manipulation of opinions worldwide. You seem to have a short memory, the greatest example of mind manipulation being indeed this american one (http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/968775550wosamabinladenfake.jpg).
You've got to see it, I'm sure about that. So how the hell can you pretend journalism to be really reliable all the time ?
This image was captured on a satellite without permission from anyone in the Iranian regime. By your logic these silos do not exist, are invalid, or are the work of someone with ill intentions to the Iranian regime.
Don't you have any more serious "decisive" argument than this one, Sir ? :88)
This is definitely the right of every country (such as it's the one of the united states of America) to build up such facilities allowing the country to protect itself as well as its people from any attack from any country. Iran's got this protection policy for its own sake, and doesn't wish to make any use of those so-called shabab silos (whatever you can find in them, personally I don't care in the least about that) at free will (why should Iran act this way ? Did it ever prove itself to be such an aggressive country so far ? After all, the united states of America are the greatest nation known for acting this way, considering itself omniscient and omnipotent enough to do so, against all odds ! Where's the legitimacy of american powers in considering themselves that way ? Now THAT is the question, one more question you will not even try to reply). These silos can be considered as weapons of deterrence. Are you the only one in your country who's not familiar with that concept ? I hope so.
You ignore the fact that these sites exist and have birds in range of half of Europe because photos of their existence are not authorized by Tehran.
Man ! I've been waiting for you on that stance for some time. Haha.
@ everyone : read TLAM's message above once again. :yep:
In fact, absolutely all the legitimacy of your country's foreign policy in the Middle-East nowadays lies in the fact that your authorities (as well as yourself, TLAM, apparently !) are doing their best to make everyone afraid of what Iran could eventually do IF AND ONLY IF Iran acted the imperialistic way the united states of America do.
I've been waiting for you on the subject of the atomic bomb, too. Too bad you didn't mention it. Or better in fact. At least I don't make too much fun of the same person at the same time.
You are confusing 'Journalist' with 'Event Photographer'. A journalist is someone who goes out and records the truth, while the other takes official photographs. If a journalist goes out and takes a photo of say a murder that photo (and by extension that murder) does not become invalid because the murderer did not give permission for the photo to be taken!
Thank you for the vocabulary lesson, Sir.
Ask any doctor whether you stop the bleeding in an artery or a vein first. Do you try to fix a country with minor
problems or one that is murdering its own people wholesale?
Are you talking about what is SUPPOSED TO happen in Syria nowadays ? Do I have to remind you that you've got the ONLY medias admitting the occurrence of such events ? Haha.
But lets take a little trip. Lets explore two documents. One is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (I'm going
to assume your are pro-human rights, but I can't be too sure) and the other is the Constitution of the Islamic
Republic of Iran and the Iranian Penal Code.
(Please note that Iran signed the UDHR)
You question my conscience? I would question the conscience of anyone who would ignore such draconian laws being implemented.
Of course I do ! It really shouldn't be allowed to have such a dumb way of thinking, because the life of foreign patriot people may lie in the hands of soldiers from your nation who may have such a way of thinking !
You question the validity of the IPC ?
I don't care about what kind of corrupted declaration created by the decadent occidental side of the world iranian authorities may have signed so far. And yet I can't pretend to pledge allegiance to Islam, I'll always proudly stand on the side of the Iranian Nation that seems to have realized that Islam definitely is the only superior authority to be obeyed to be right, just, fair, impartial, and EQUITABLE TOWARDS ALL THE PEOPLE OF A SAME NATION STANDING UP FOR THE SAME RIGHTS AS A WHOLE (yet it was late - as they've got to sign the UDHR first - finally they are back and united under God - well, Allah - once again, and here's me bowing to them for being that mighty theocracy once again !).
You apparently are the last one believing in the legitimacy of a constitution, declarations and other official texts created by the oligarchy at the top that despises the American People, Sir (I really hope no other citizen from the united states of America has got to become so stupid watching television). Don't you even see I've got to feel and show scorn towards members of the American People such as you are because you're so blind and dumb you can't even notice that you as a simple citizen have got an imperialistic way of thinking united under an authority you do not even know ?
Does the nation of the united states of America really has got to be so dumb and decadent nowadays ? I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT !
Actually, I believe Alex is from France, although he has elected to remove his location from his profile in an attempt to clould the conversation; much in the way that he utilizes Victorian-era language to dress up his remarks. 'Occidental' sounds nicer than 'Zionist', but the latter is what he really means.
Stop right there.
Hey Takeda, you seem to be willing to demonstrate some little animosity towards myself, don't you. :O:
Just let me thank you for the "victorian-era" comment you've got to make, I take it to heart, because it shows the kind of english reading I've got to go through in some way. But also, you shouldn't forget where your language comes from, and that mine is one of the roots of yours. It looks like victorian-era english because I do translate my language to english most of the time, without caring too much about making it look like modern day english, you know. Other than that, I'm not like "hey, let's erase my location field in order for all no more to be able to know where I come from", I just consider myself to be a guy who's got to do more and more efforts to pretend to speak your language as well as I'd like to, so it was rather "hey, let's erase my location field and check whether I still get to be recognized as someone living outside any english-speaking nation".
But let's get back on topic now, if you don't mind.
Do you guys choose to put in question the way I speak [while I've always admitted not to have reached a good standard both in spoken and written English (for the simple reason that I've still never got to meet with any english-speaking person in real life so far, isn't that amazing, haha), and that I just can type it roughly], due to the fact that you simply can't stand up against the meaning of my remarks, and are not able to reply them in any proper way to restore your nation's pride to the great level it's supposed to be ?
That's okay, then, this one is my last post in this thread. You guys and I don't fight in the same category. I stand on the side of the American People myself, who is entitled to its right to live a peaceful life, without having to fear the consequences of wars a certain cosmopolitan oligarchy living in your country is responsible for. Just be aware it's never been my intention to tarnish your flag's colours, nor to speak ill about the American People with whom I feel a connection.
I honestly wish the very best to you American People who are aware of the possible consequences of wars you are in no way responsible for, yet constantly are the only ones suffering these consequences.
Some of you who live in the united states of America may be wondering "hey, but who's that guy, what, he's a french ? But what the hell does that madafaken frog is aspiring to while trying to lecture us about the way we should behave as a nation ?". And I'll tell you that I'm certainly not standing up for the country I live in nor for its values right now (some politicians have got to do so in the right manner ages ago). And here I'll confess that we've got the same problem in France as you have in your country : Laurent Fabius (french foreign minister) being one of those not to be considered as a fair defender of the Human Rights worldwide (check out this article (http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/17/232772.html)).
quoting a part of the article :
"The Syrian regime should be smashed fast," Fabius told reporters. "After hearing the refugees and their account of
the massacres of the regime, Mr Bashar al-Assad doesn't deserve to be on this earth", he said."doesn't deserve to be on this earth" ? Come on Bob, now what is that. No, that one is really not a joke, he really said that for real. Did you get it ? I mean, did you manage fathoming the significance of such a sentence ? Does it sound like everyday English language ? Neither does it in french. In fact, it sounds pretty much like some verse taken from a story taken from any holy book you can find. The religion of this guy ? You don't want to ask for it. You may be called an antisemite by the good Tribesman, haha. In fact that sentence sounds pretty much like Blankfein's one "I'm doing God's work".
But that's enough talking from myself for now. I'll just end this post saying I'm no antisemite. But I am strongly against some people fighting for their own interests all the time, not caring about any local people worldwide, while spreading rumors related to a constant supposed planned eradication of members of a certain religion, therefore getting themselves on the cover of most magazines all the time, in order for every gentile to support their cause.
And let me say once again that you don't have to believe everything I say just like that : just check this out for yourself in your own medias instead !
Talking a bit about Islam here : I hope none of you believes in what you get to hear at tv that is related to Muslims.
Many will certainly quote this part of my post making fun of what I say about that religion. Feel free to do so : here I'm standing up for the integrity of everyone's mind against the propaganda you get to hear about them. Of course you can make fun of what I say. But that is easy. It would be harder for you to reply my post in a more appropriate manner.
That BenLaden stuff you've got to believe in is no more than a joke. But let me make myself clear. I don't mean the WTC stuff did not happen. What I mean is that it is indeed REAL nonsense for REAL Muslims to do such a thing. In fact, the only "Muslims" who would have been able to do that are people I'd call "Zionist Muslims", haha, who made your so-called authorities feel the wish to invade that geographic area in the world, with the intention to exploit what can be found on that soil, as well as the one to kill the Islamic world (do you really think Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrein and all that **** - all standing up for occidental values (http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/935747pic.jpg) - still have anything to do with Islam ?).
And let me tell you that you who are the American People would not have any interest in doing so, for Christ's sake. You're not responsible for that. You (your soldiers) are pawns of your government wishing to destroy the Middle-East.
Yet I must admit I'm not a practising Catholic guy, I personally stand up in the name of my forefathers' values, and while members of a certain religious community are doing their best to create clashes between everyone's religion (but Judaism, isn't that cool, haha) from scratch absolutely everywhere they are, I must say there's quite a lot of possibilities for Islamic and Catholic people to be friends, because we stand up for the very same value that is called Universalism. That very value is taught through the Bible as well as in the Coran. According to the Holy Scriptures and the Coran, absolutely none of us has got to be against ANY other religion in the world (And you know what ? Mr Ahmadinejad is neither against the Jew community, nor against the American People ! check out this video (http://youtu.be/689ZcVP0-T4) featuring the Iranian president in a meeting with anti-zionist Jews from New York !).
(Also, if you want to make familiar with Islamic Wisdom, just check out videos related to the great Sheik Imran Hossein (who's got to live in your country for some time, by the way) on youtube. Only then will you be able to talk about Islam in the proper way. Here's me bowing to this wise man spreading the real good word about Islam in the occidental world that's got no more respect for that belief, while very few are those who really can pretend to be familiar with it.)
But Universalism is not taught through Judaism - check this out in the True Torah as well as in the Talmud - that is indeed the reason why antisemitism has always existed, as well as the reason why Jews have been portrayed the way they were for centuries). And yet every people should hold everyday Jews in high respect such as we do between ourselves, because that very part of this community definitely is part of our social class, and therefore have got to face the same social fights as we do, we also have got to admit that a part of Judaism is called Zionism. While Judaism is a very respectable religious persuasion (such as Catholicism and Islam), it is the toy of Zionist authorities who create antisemitism from scratch (you may like to watch that video (http://youtu.be/DOu2_7Vys6U), kind of an amateur documentary made by a young guy from the country). What you've got to take in consideration is that Zionism doesn't demonstrate ANY of the values of Judaism, for the simple reason that Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with any religious belief (in other words : you don't need to be a Jew to be a Zionist). I don't know about the way this subject is treated in american medias, but I'm sure you'll find people familiar with the fight against that cause, wherever you live.
I don't ask any people for believing anything I've got to say. You'd rather inquire into these realities in order to make familiar with that stuff for yourself. Zionism indeed looks like kind of the still hidden government for the world to live under dictatorship on a worldwide scale later.
Shutting myself up now. I won't go deeper into who are the real Muslims, the Zionist Muslims, nor anything else right now. Plus I don't want to get such a good site closed down if I start talking about the Mossad, ROFL.
My only intention towards you American People is to bring you the wake-up call in order for you to care about what gets to be done in the name of your flag and values. I've got no other reason to do so.
Too bad I've just got to talk about that in here. It would have got a greater impact posted in the NY Times website or frontpage. ROFL. But well.
Getting the more people educated on this matter would be great though, for the sake of your nation. Read the Torah, as well as the Talmud, and you'll notice that anti-Zionism is indeed the fight against real racism, as well as the absolute sole cause you can stand up for to support the life of absolutely everyone on Earth.
Ok I disagree strongly with some of what Alex says-but gotta jump to his defence here. I think what he is trying to say here is very simple.
Question everything you read/watch about other countries/cultures and especially what our political leaders say.
Iranian rhetoric disgusts me sometimes-but so does the extreme anti-muslim bigotry I've seen here and elsewhere.
At least someone's wishing to open his eyes.
"Question everything you read/watch about other countries/cultures and especially what our political leaders say" is indeed the only thing I want you all in the united states of America to do everyday. "What happened ? Who did this ? Okay. Does it make any sense ? Who benefits from such a situation ? Let's not allow anyone to make fun of us".
Joea, as you seem to be able to take in consideration values and acts going beyond your own interests and the ones of your nation (wherever you live), you actually are a person whom I consider a fair and honest citizen of the world, and TRUE defender of the human rights. And that is the greatest compliment to be done on the moral level in my humble opinion.
Respect Sir.
@ TLAM : Whatever you or anyone else will say, I officially can say I've done my best to emancipate American people's mind in here from what they get to watch and read here and there. Now, if you don't want to open your eyes on what really takes place in the world, it's not my problem.
Bye everyone.
Takeda Shingen
10-07-12, 03:11 PM
Hey Takeda, you seem to be willing to demonstrate some little animosity towards myself, don't you. :O:
No animosity, just fact.
Just let me thank you for the "victorian-era" comment you've got to make, I take it to heart, because it shows the kind of english reading I've got to go through in some way. But also, you shouldn't forget where your language comes from, and that mine is one of the roots of yours. It looks like victorian-era english because I do translate my language to english most of the time, without caring too much about making it look like modern day english, you know. Other than that, I'm not like "hey, let's erase my location field in order for all no more to be able to know where I come from", I just consider myself to be a guy who's got to do more and more efforts to pretend to speak your language as well as I'd like to, so it was rather "hey, let's erase my location field and check whether I still get to be recognized as someone living outside any english-speaking nation".
But let's get back on topic now, if you don't mind.
I've been on topic the whole time. It is you that engages in topic switching in an effort to cloud the issue at hand. It appears to be the only way you know to lubricate the proceedings enough to push your erronious points through.
Do you guys choose to put in question the way I speak [while I've always admitted not to have reached a good standard both in spoken and written English (for the simple reason that I've still never got to meet with any english-speaking person in real life so far, isn't that amazing, haha), and that I just can type it roughly], due to the fact that you simply can't stand up against the meaning of my remarks, and are not able to reply them in any proper way to restore your nation's pride to the great level it's supposed to be ?
What are you talking about? Do you even know anymore? My point is, and has always been, that your views and remarks are based in a strong personal anti-semitism. You confirm this by posting the following six-paragraph rant about the "Zionist menace".
That BenLaden stuff you've got to believe in is no more than a joke. But let me make myself clear. I don't mean the WTC stuff did not happen. What I mean is that it is indeed REAL nonsense for REAL Muslims to do such a thing. In fact, the only "Muslims" who would have been able to do that are people I'd call "Zionist Muslims", haha, who made your so-called authorities feel the wish to invade that geographic area in the world, with the intention to exploit what can be found on that soil, as well as the one to kill the Islamic world (do you really think Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrein and all that **** - all standing up for occidental values (http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/935747pic.jpg) - still have anything to do with Islam ?).
And let me tell you that you who are the American People would not have any interest in doing so, for Christ's sake. You're not responsible for that. You (your soldiers) are pawns of your government wishing to destroy the Middle-East.
Yet I must admit I'm not a practising Catholic guy, I personally stand up in the name of my forefathers' values, and while members of a certain religious community are doing their best to create clashes between each other's religion (but Judaism, isn't that cool, haha) from scratch absolutely everywhere they are, I must say there's quite a lot of possibilities for Islamic and Catholic people to be friends, because we stand up for the very same value that is called Universalism. That very value is taught through the Bible as well as in the Coran. According to the Holy Scriptures and the Coran, absolutely none of us has got to be against ANY other religion in the world (And you know what ? Mr Ahmadinejad is neither against the Jew community, nor against the American People ! check out this video (http://youtu.be/689ZcVP0-T4) featuring the Iranian president in a meeting with anti-zionist Jews from New York !).
(Also, if you want to make familiar with Islamic Wisdom, just check out videos related to the great Sheik Imran Hossein (who's got to live in your country for some time, by the way) on youtube. Only then will you be able to talk about Islam in the proper way. Here's me bowing to this wise man spreading the real good word about Islam in the occidental world that's got no more respect for that belief, while very few are those who really can pretend to be familiar with it.)
But Universalism is not taught through Judaism - check this out in the True Torah as well as in the Talmud - that is indeed the reason why antisemitism has always existed, as well as the reason why Jews have been portrayed the way they were for centuries). And yet every people should hold everyday Jews in high respect such as we do between ourselves, because that very part of this community definitely is part of our social class, and therefore have got to face the same social fights as we do, we also have got to admit that a part of Judaism is called Zionism. While Judaism is a very respectable religious persuasion (such as Catholicism and Islam), it is the toy of Zionist authorities who create antisemitism from scratch (you may like to watch that video (http://youtu.be/DOu2_7Vys6U), kind of an amateur documentary made by a young guy from the country). What you've got to take in consideration is that Zionism doesn't demonstrate ANY of the values of Judaism, for the simple reason that Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with any religious belief (in other words : you don't need to be a Jew to be a Zionist). I don't know about the way this subject is treated in american medias, but I'm sure you'll find people familiar with the fight against that cause, wherever you live.
I don't ask any people for believing anything I've got to say. You'd rather inquire into these realities in order to make familiar with that stuff for yourself. Zionism indeed looks like kind of the still hidden government for the world to live under dictatorship on a worldwide scale later.
Shutting myself up now. I won't go deeper into who are the real Muslims, the Zionist Muslims, nor anything else right now. Plus I don't want to get such a good site closed down if I start talking about the Mossad, ROFL.
My only intention towards you American People is to bring you the wake-up call in order for you to care about what gets to be done in the name of your flag and values. I've got no other reason to do so.
Too bad I've just got to talk about that in here. It would have got a greater impact posted in the NY Times website or frontpage. ROFL. But well.
Getting the more people educated on this matter would be great though, for the sake of your nation. Read the Torah, as well as the Talmud, and you'll notice that anti-Zionism is indeed the fight against real racism, as well as the absolute sole cause you can stand up for to support the life of absolutely everyone on Earth.
See what I mean?
Bye everyone.
Uh huh.
Tribesman
10-07-12, 03:28 PM
"Sadly", eh ?
Yes sadly, as unfortunately you are proof that some people don't ever learn.
You Sir have got an education.
He does, which is why he knows that nazi scum talk rubbish.
Maurras indeed rules
A prime example. :doh:
I would have never expected Henry Ford to be such a great guy
Of course.......because he hates jews just like nazis like you do.
wow..lol
http://thexcreepshow2.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/mario.jpg
Tribesman
10-07-12, 03:38 PM
wow..lol
http://thexcreepshow2.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/mario.jpg
Mario is a global jewish conpiracy
Well, I cannot credit myself too highly, since it was through wikipedia via an article on Vichy France that I came across Maurras.
I have to agree with Joea here, there is a lot of hate from both sides of the religious divide in defense of and against the Jewish people.
Personally I have no problem with them, I don't see some sort of giant conspiracy like Alex does, no more than I see a giant Muslim conspiracy like Skybird does.
What are you talking about? Do you even know anymore? My point is, and has always been, that your views and remarks are based in a strong personal anti-semitism.
But that's enough talking from myself for now. I'll just end this post saying I'm no antisemite. But I am strongly against some people fighting for their own interests all the time, not caring about any local people worldwide, while spreading rumors related to a constant supposed planned eradication of members of a certain religion, therefore getting themselves on the cover of most magazines all the time, in order for every gentile to support their cause.
And let me say once again that you don't have to believe everything I say just like that : just check this out for yourself in your own medias instead !
Erm.
Originally Posted by Alex http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1945194#post1945194)
But that's enough talking from myself for now. I'll just end this post saying I'm no antisemite. But I am strongly against some people fighting for their own interests all the time, not caring about any local people worldwide, while spreading rumors related to a constant supposed planned eradication of members of a certain religion, therefore getting themselves on the cover of most magazines all the time, in order for every gentile to support their cause.
And let me say once again that you don't have to believe everything I say just like that : just check this out for yourself in your own medias instead !
So what is that all about?
Takeda Shingen
10-07-12, 04:09 PM
Again, that's nice, but it doesn't reconcile with your 'Zionist' remarks Alex.
TLAM Strike
10-07-12, 04:13 PM
^I didn't see this till Alex quoted him self.
It's Media not "Medias". Medias is not a word.
Medias is what is known as a double plural, since media is the plural of Medium.
One should never, under any circumstances add the suffix -s to media.
Personally I have no problem with them, I don't see some sort of giant conspiracy like Alex does, no more than I see a giant Muslim conspiracy like Skybird does.
Yup, I think that's the issue. I have a lot of trouble with one-sided, "us vs. them" views of the whole situation, and I'm annoyed with the constant "you're either with the good guys or you're with the bad guys on this" that the propenents of these views seem to bombard me with. Please stop setting people into square boxes where there is an obviously complex, multi-dimensional issue. It is possible to be positive towards the Jewish peoples and support a state of Israel, while at the same time acknowledging problems that it poses some problems to regional peace and recognizing arguments from the other side as well. Support for Israel and the Israelis doesn't automatically make one a Zionist; support for Palestinian rights and urging for responsibility on Iran doesn't make one a terrorist-loving hippie either.
It's "us vs. them" thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. I like how people assume that it's going to magically fix it.
u crank
10-07-12, 04:34 PM
It is possible to be positive towards the Jewish peoples and support a state of Israel, while at the same time acknowledging problems that it poses some problems to regional peace and recognizing arguments from the other side as well. Support for Israel and the Israelis doesn't automatically make one a Zionist; support for Palestinian rights and urging for responsibility on Iran doesn't make one a terrorist-loving hippie either.
It's "us vs. them" thinking that got us into this mess in the first place. I like how people assume that it's going to magically fix it.
A healthy respect for other peoples views and their situation is the beginning of an understanding of those views. I respect your respect. :up:
Again, that's nice, but it doesn't reconcile with your 'Zionist' remarks Alex.
What do you mean Sir ?
"Reconcile" ?
I'm indeed standing here as an anti-zionist guy !
Hope it's clear to you now.
Yep. Because I know who I can be friend with, personally. And that's got nothing to do with anti-semitism. But, well.
^I didn't see this till Alex quoted him self.
Too bad. Other people will give more attention to my post, hopefully. For their own sake. And here's me saying once again that none has got to believe in what I said. I could be a great liar, and an evil antisemite, as Takeda Shingen and Tribesman mentioned. Everything I'm asking people for is to check out what the situation related to this matter looks like where they live. Period.
It's Media not "Medias". Medias is not a word.
Medias is what is known as a double plural, since media is the plural of Medium.
One should never, under any circumstances add the suffix -s to media.
So let me apologize for making fun of you tonight, TLAM : in my very humble opinion, you've got a too shallow understanding of what gets to happen in the Middle-East, but you definitely are a GOOD English teacher. And I thank you for your explanations related to your language. Honestly.
Your point is indeed true. Yet I'm familiar with Latin language, I never considered that word to be taken from it, and have got to add the suffix -s due to the fact that I just have never been caring about this word I considered to be a neologism.
Yup, I think that's the issue. I have a lot of trouble with one-sided, "us vs. them" views of the whole situation, and I'm annoyed with the constant "you're either with the good guys or you're with the bad guys on this" that the propenents of these views seem to bombard me with.
I'm with you on that one. And that is definitely the reason why I've got to try to get a more neutral way of thinking through the reading of the Bible, Torah, and Coran (didn't read these books just for fun, man, if you only knew how annoying they all can be), and mediA from many countries.
Takeda Shingen
10-07-12, 05:43 PM
What do you mean Sir ?
"Reconcile" ?
I'm indeed standing up here as an anti-zionist guy !
Hope it's clear to you now.
Yep. Because I know who I can be friend with, personally. And that's got nothing to do with anti-semitism. But, well.
Everything I'm asking people for is to check out what the situation related to this matter looks like where they live. Period.
Okay, so you're not an anti-semite; you're just trying to save the American people from the global Zionist conspiracy. Yeah, thanks for clearing that up. :doh:
I do find it difficult to understand how you can claim to be anti-zionist (a form of Jewish nationalism) in one breath, and praise a French and American nationalist in another whilst at the same time claiming not to be anti-Semitic.
Okay, so you're not an anti-semite; you're just trying to save the American people from the global Zionist conspiracy. Yeah, thanks for clearing that up. :doh:
In fact ?
I admit it sounds very arrogant from me.
But it is really the only intention I had in mind.
I do find it difficult to understand how you can claim to be anti-zionist (a form of Jewish nationalism) in one breath, and praise a French and American nationalist in another whilst at the same time claiming not to be anti-Semitic.You know what ?
I even have got to read Mein Kampf, some biography of Mao Zedong, as well as a guide related to music theory and a part of the Kama Sutra. Do you think I am an anti-semitic communist violinist-pornstar ?
I even have got to read Mein Kampf, some biography of Mao Zedong, as well as a guide related to music theory and a part of the Kama Sutra. Do you think I am an anti-semitic communist violonist-pornstar ?
Well, then where do you stand?
Are you anti-nationalism in general? (which includes the works of Mauras and Ford) or just anti-zionist? If so, why are you just anti-zionist? Why not all forms of nationalism?
I'm not supposed to reply your questions, Ob'.
Nor are you supposed to know what's the brand of the underpants I've slipped on today in the morning.
If you want to know more about the different ways of thinking you can choose, just do what I do : educate yourself through books.
But you indeed can consider myself a proud anti-zionist, yes.
I'm not supposed to reply your questions, Ob'.
Nor are you supposed to know what's the brand of the underpants I've slipped on today in the morning.
If you want to know more about the different ways of thinking you can choose, just do what I do : educate yourself through books.
But you indeed can consider myself a proud anti-zionist, yes.
Why are you not supposed to? What is stopping you? I am curious as to your viewpoint which is anti-zionist and yet not anti-semitic.
I'd like to consider myself as educated, although I am always willing to learn more, no one person can know the answer to everything, no matter how much they claim to.
However, I think that what you attribute to being a purely Jewish matter is in fact a global phenomenon. There is little difference between stating that America is run by Jewish Zionist warmongers aiming to bring Islam to its knees than there is saying that America is being lead by a Muslim who is trying to deliver America to the Islamic hordes and its destruction. I have witnessed variations on both of these 'statements' on both here and the internet. It is, in fact, little different to saying that the President is a Communist or the President is a Fascist. It's all one side stating that the other is wrong, and that they are inferior because of it, and it's precisely this kind of attitude that starts fights, and wars.
This is how I, a man who has spent his short life on this earth, reading books, reading the internet, and watching society, see matters.
There is no black.
There is no white.
There are only variations of what people believe the above to be, and where there are contradictions there are arguments, and where there are arguments there are fights, sides taken, lines drawn, guns pointed.
There is no Zionist conspiracy, there is no Muslim conspiracy, just people on either side painting up horror stories to scare people into believing them, and the more that people believe them, the stronger either side becomes.
It is human nature to do this, it is the ugly side of ourselves that we have never conquered, and I strongly suspect, never will, more that we have let it conquer ourselves. Religion, politics, it's all just a shield we wieve to put in front of the true reason that we kill each other.
It's in our nature, just as it is in our nature to love, it is in our nature to hate. It's down to us to decide what to do, not some Imam, or some internet forum...it's not even down to me to tell you what to do.
You have free will, you have the choice.
Choose wisely.
But you indeed can consider myself a proud anti-zionist, yes.
So what do you mean by that....?
What zionism is in your opinion?
HunterICX
10-08-12, 03:44 AM
As for the threat from Iran, well my view is there is a lot of blame to go around. They support terrorism? Well so does the West. Iran has invaded zero countries in the last 30 years. How about the US? Iranian rhetoric disgusts me sometimes-but so does the extreme anti-muslim bigotry I've seen here and elsewhere. Finally let's recall that a lot of the mess the Middle East is in today is thanks to what France (yes France too), the UK and the US have done over the last century.
Well put sir, pretty much the same as how I see it.
HunterICX
Tribesman
10-08-12, 11:11 AM
So what do you mean by that....?
He is trying to claim he isn't a nazi bigot and simply has problems with some Israeli policies.:rotfl2:
Simple isn't it.
What zionism is in your opinion?
Well since he praises the "great works" of the amazing Ford you can put it together easily.
Fords pile of crap borrowed extensivelty from that olderpile of crap the protocols.
Since the protocols sets out the loony theories of the far right anti semites and their vision of zionism it should be pretty definitive. So tie it back to Ford and what does he write? ...its the jews the jews the jews the jews the jews and errrr ....its the jews the jews the jews the jews and the jews. 4 whole "masterpieces" where the only theme is "its the jews"
So when Alex says he is anti zionist he just means he hates jews
So when Alex says he is anti zionist he just means he hates jews
Man, you won't get any attention with this kind of post. Subversive ways of thinking get the attention of people. Yours is the one of a servile guy on the payroll of Zionism. Go back to bed. Poor Tribesman.
So what do you mean by that....?
What zionism is in your opinion?Well, then where do you stand?
I'm not supposed to reply your questions, Ob'.
Why are you not supposed to? What is stopping you? I am curious as to your viewpoint which is anti-zionist and yet not anti-semitic.
Because I still have to read quite some books on the subject, and therefore still can't pretend to have a reasonably good overview on this matter. As to what is Zionism ? I just don't even know whether or not I'll be able to bring a proper reply to that question at any time later.
I am curious as to your viewpoint which is anti-zionist and yet not anti-semitic.
You also can find anti-zionist Jews (making text bigger for you to be able to read this part of one of my last posts).
(And you know what ? Mr Ahmadinejad is neither against the Jew community, nor against the American People ! check out this video (http://youtu.be/689ZcVP0-T4) featuring the Iranian president in a meeting with anti-zionist Jews from New York !).
Also,
I am curious as to your viewpoint which is anti-zionist and yet not anti-semitic.
I must say I do not care much about anyone's curiosity (with all due respect to you, Ob'). And I am not supposed to let you know where I do stand because I definitely could be wrong when admitting everyone should protect himself from Zionism : all sources I've got to find myself may be corrupted in some way. So you should better do your own search on the subject to get a glimpse of values of what you consider to be no more than a nationalism. I do not HAVE to tell you what your way of thinking is supposed to be. Nor do I have to ask you for believing in anything I've got to say. You absolutely don't have to believe me, and definitely are entitled to be able to make up your mind on what to think about this matter for yourself.
I'd like to consider myself as educated, although I am always willing to learn more, no one person can know the answer to everything, no matter how much they claim to.
That is right.
Do you really want to consider yourself as educated ?
There is one and only way making you able to do so.
My posts in this thread have got to catch your attention ? Fine !
Now just do NOT care any more about anything I've got to say so far, and go to your own local public library and basically start making some use of your own brain, in order for you not to remain this kind of errant erratic mind always waiting for everything to fall right into its lap.
geetrue
10-08-12, 06:43 PM
Yea the consequences in Iran involve a length of rope and a piece of construction equipment in town square. (I guess they are saving the bullets for the Israelis, CENTCOM and the 5th Fleet.)
Of course to them we are the ones who are evil. :nope:
When you see a person hanging from a rope whose only crime was blogging, or being gay, or drinking a damn beer you realize that such a society doesn't deserve to inhabit the same planet as us. :down:
Just one more reason to nuke them :know:
(And you know what ? Mr Ahmadinejad is neither against the Jew community, nor against the American People ! check out this video (http://youtu.be/689ZcVP0-T4) featuring the Iranian president in a meeting with anti-zionist Jews from New York !).
WOW....our Ultra Zionist media has hidden this truth from us.:o
As for someone well red and sceptical but also truth searcher you swallow those cheap tricks so easily(?)
Go read some Castaneda...
Because I still have to read quite some books on the subject, and therefore still can't pretend to have a reasonably good overview on this matter. As to what is Zionism ? I just don't even know whether or not I'll be able to bring a proper reply to that question at any time later.
You also can find anti-zionist Jews (making text bigger for you to be able to read this part of one of my last posts).
Also,
I must say I do not care much about anyone's curiosity (with all due respect to you, Ob'). And I am not supposed to let you know where I do stand because I definitely could be wrong when admitting everyone should protect himself from Zionism : all sources I've got to find myself may be corrupted in some way. So you should better do your own search on the subject to get a glimpse of values of what you consider to be no more than a nationalism. I do not HAVE to tell you what your way of thinking is supposed to be. Nor do I have to ask you for believing in anything I've got to say. You absolutely don't have to believe me, and definitely are entitled to be able to make up your mind on what to think about this matter for yourself.
That is right.
Do you really want to consider yourself as educated ?
There is one and only way making you able to do so.
My posts in this thread have got to catch your attention ? Fine !
Now just do NOT care any more about anything I've got to say so far, and go to your own local public library and basically start making some use of your own brain, in order for you not to remain this kind of errant erratic mind always waiting for everything to fall right into its lap.
Alex, unlike Tribesman I'm not going to dismiss you off the bat, because I believe that, like Skybird, you have an educated mind behind you, and certainly I will not deny that there are elements of Zionism in this world, were there not then the word would not have come into creation. Where you and I differ is on the relevence we place upon it. You put the same sort of relevence on Zionism and its evils as some people put upon Islam and its accused evils.
I have absolutely no doubt that there are anti-zionist Jews, and many of them live in America and many of them live in Israel, I have seen pictures of protests by Jewish communities in Washington shortly after Israel boarded that ship headed for Palestinian territory. Good for them, I say.
You are also correct in doubting your sources, a good healthy inquisitive mind, and you are open to the possibility that you may be incorrect, just as I am. I dare say that we will not find all the answers to the questions we ask in our lifetime, and if there is such a thing as a large zionist conspiracy in the western governments, there is very little chance that we will find out about it.
As for what Zionism is...well, I generally start my searches with wikipedia...it may not be the most accurate of answers, but it generally gives a good idea of what direction to head in.
Wikipedia defines Zionism as:
Zionism (Hebrew: ***1510;***1497;***1493;***1504;***1493;***1514;** *8206;, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in territory defined as the Land of Israel
Other sites describe it as:
"Zionism is the Jewish national movement of rebirth and renewal in the land of Israel - the historical birthplace of the Jewish people."
Or:
Zionism is a movement founded by Theodor Herzl in 1896 whose goal is the return of Jews to Eretz Yisrael, or Zion, the Jewish synonym for Jerusalem and the Land of Israel.
The name of "Zionism" comes from the hill Zion, the hill on which the Temple of Jerusalem was situated.
Supporters of this movement are called "Zionists".
The purpose of this website is to explain why traditional Jews do not support Zionism (the return to the land called "Israel") and why the Zionist idealogy is totally contrary to traditional Jewish law and beliefs and the teachings of the Holy Torah.
However, a common trend between all three definitions is that Zionism is a form of belief that Israel is a land for the Jews.
If you were to exchange Israel for Germany and Jews for Germans, you'd get a similar style of belief to fascist Germany or even that of the English Defence League "England for the English" as I have oft heard...of course they struggle to define just what 'English' is, but I digress.
The theory that one portion of people are superior to another by the location of their birthplace is not a new one, nor are historical claims to land territory. They are excuses used by dozens of nations throughout history, call it lebensraum, call it manifest destiny, or just good old fashioned imperialism. At the end of the day it boils down to one nation asserting itself over others.
That's fair enough, and I agree that more needs to be done to address the Palestinian question, just as many believed before 1948 that more needed to be done to address the Jewish question. Unfortunately in this state of fear that we live in, this is not likely to take place.
So, where does that leave us? Well, Alex, again I find myself unable to corrolate your supportive viewpoints of nationalism in the form of the works of Henry Ford and Mauras and your opposing viewpoint of Jewish nationalism in the form of zionism. However, despite this inability to correlate I conclude that you have a strong belief, just as some here have about Iran, Muslims and President Obama, and I respect your right to have that belief, and I also respect your acknowledgement of the potential for your belief to be incorrect, and like myself and Skybird in regards to Muslims I think we will have to agree to disagree for the time being.
The only thing that I would say, in parting, is that as you do your reading from the library or from the internet, keep...as I am sure you do...an open mind, try to see things from both perspectives, and try not to get drawn into taking sides, because both sides may be right, or both sides may be wrong. :salute:
Tribesman
10-09-12, 01:51 AM
Yours is the one of a servile guy on the payroll of Zionism.
I think the Israeli posting in this topic is currently pissing his pants laughing at your silly nonsense.
You just showed youreself to be even dumber than the average nazi:up:
What is it with dumb nazis ? zeewolf said I was a rabbi and now Alex says I am paid by the global jewish conpiracy:doh:
Alex, unlike Tribesman I'm not going to dismiss you off the bat, because I believe that, like Skybird, you have an educated mind behind you
People with those views are easy to dismiss off the bat as their views are old tired and well taken apart for what they are.
Read the international jew, if he had an educated mind he would understand it for what it is, instead he swallowed it.
You are also correct in doubting your sources, a good healthy inquisitive mind, and you are open to the possibility that you may be incorrect, just as I am. I dare say that we will not find all the answers to the questions we ask in our lifetime, and if there is such a thing as a large zionist conspiracy in the western governments, there is very little chance that we will find out about it. There is a possibility of alien conspiracy with in western government.It is also very unlikely we will find about unless someone like agent Mulder(?) comes along.
Actually there is possibility of any possibility.
he theory that one portion of people are superior to another by the location of their birthplace is not a new one, nor are historical claims to land territory..Please tell me where Zionism speaks about superiority of Jews.
WOW....our Ultra Zionist media has hidden this truth from us.:o
As for someone well red and sceptical but also truth searcher you swallow those cheap tricks so easily(?)
Go read some Castaneda...
Hey MH, it's not my fault if the CIA or whatever doesn't do its job properly, ROFL. You're definitely not supposed to be able to watch this kind of thing.
Even though you may have done your best until now asking me questions in order to unsettle myself, I've always been polite and honest with you, replying you in the best way I was able to. It is now obvious to everyone that everything you're trying to do is slashing that little frog while you just don't have any solid argumentation to oppose my own stance. Who the hell do you think I am, dude, some supposed iranian propaganda minister speaking ill about the united states of America while trying to get your own Revolution to happen in your country ? That would indeed be good for you American People to get your very own popular slash and burn uprising in order to get most of your so-called authorities wiped off the map ! But this is not my goal here and now.
Everyone's got to see that it wasn't, but yourself apparently. You all and I are indeed supposed to be part of the same social class, you know. And while I admit that the reading I've gone through for these last months definitely is not everyone's cup of tea, I just wish everyone to feel the wish to get familiar with that stuff, in order to learn from it. Is that asking too much from you ?
I think the Israeli posting in this topic is currently pissing his pants laughing at your silly nonsense.
You just showed youreself to be even dumber than the average nazi:up:
What is it with dumb nazis ? zeewolf said I was a rabbi and now Alex says I am paid by the global jewish conpiracy:doh:
People with those views are easy to dismiss off the bat as their views are old tired and well taken apart for what they are.
Read the international jew, if he had an educated mind he would understand it for what it is, instead he swallowed it.
Of course, keep going that way, Tribesman, if you feel that it is the right thing to do now.
Feel free to say all the bad things you wish of me. And don't tell me now that you've said everything you were able to. Just feel free to go all the way and tell everyone about everything you think about me, and WHY (everyone's waiting for you on that stance, Sir ! So show everyone how far your rhetoric can go, and how much I can be wrong thinking the way I do !)
But let me say that talking to you the way I did until now, I certainly consider yourself a better way than most nations consider their own citizen, as the only goal I've got there is to set your mind free from the everyday bull**** you get to hear about at tv. You want to think that what I say may be justified in some way ? Good !
You want to let that stuff aside because you consider myself as a revolutionary facka ? No problem ! Feel free to do so ! The only thing I need you to do as an individual is no more than to take in consideration that way of thinking that is mine, with which you just can feel free to disagree, I absolutely don't care about that.
Just as a little note : this one is the very very first thread in which I've been standing up for Mr Ahmadinejad on an international forum based in the US.
And I've got that stuff (http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/676676hahaha.jpg) doing biiiiiiiiiig circles around the house for a long part of the afternoon (with the exact same camera on the head). ROFLMAO.
Do you think I should be afraid ? :hmmm: :rotfl2:
Edit
Just in case anything happens, I just want it to be known that I feel good these days, I am healthy, I've got no enemy in real life, I certainly DON'T PLAN TO DELETE ANY OF MY POSTS BY MYSELF and I intend to log into this forum a few times a week.
@ Oberon : will reply your post in my next post. :up:
There is a possibility of alien conspiracy with in western government.It is also very unlikely we will find about unless someone like agent Mulder(?) comes along.
Actually there is possibility of any possibility.
Indeed so, a myriad of possibilities, each one with its own merits and demerits, and each one difficult to prove or disprove conclusively.
Please tell me where Zionism speaks about superiority of Jews.
Zionism itself does not, although it can encourage people who follow it to believe in such things, it's all in how it is interpreted, like many things in life.
What it all boils down to, at the end of the day, is less the concept but more the way that people view it and mould it into what they believe. Just like how radical Muslims use the Qu'ran as their excuse for violence, and the Crusaders of old used the bible as theirs. :yep:
Takeda Shingen
10-09-12, 12:20 PM
Zionism itself does not, although it can encourage people who follow it to believe in such things, it's all in how it is interpreted, like many things in life. What it all boils down to, at the end of the day, is less the concept but more the way that people view it and mould it into what they believe. Just like how radical Muslims use the Qu'ran as their excuse for violence, and the Crusaders of old used the bible as theirs. :yep:
Yesterday was Columbus Day in the US. Was this a celebration of Italian superiority? It certainly does encourage pride in having Italian ancestery.
Yesterday was Columbus Day in the US. Was this a celebration of Italian superiority? It certainly does encourage pride in having Italian ancestery.
Touché, Touché, like I said though, it depends on how people interpret things, and for the most part people just accept it as what it is, a celebration of a nation, although there's always a small minority who take things too far, but thankfully it's a minority. :yep:
Tribesman
10-09-12, 03:42 PM
Feel free to say all the bad things you wish of me. And don't tell me now that you've said everything you were able to. Just feel free to go all the way and tell everyone about everything you think about me, and WHY (everyone's waiting for you on that stance, Sir ! So show everyone how far your rhetoric can go, and how much I can be wrong thinking the way I do !)
Why? people need to go no further than ford to see you for what you are.
Anyone with a functioning brain can easily identify your views as nothing but pure unadulterated hatred of jews and nothing else.
You seem to be labouring under the delusion that you have some special wisdom because you read something, other people read that crap too and know its crap, you just didn't understand what it was you read.
Just as a demonstration of crap you swallowed and so people don't have to put up with pitying looks of despair finding it at the library or bookstore here is the text you think is the glorious truth.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_International_Jew:_The_World%27s_Foremost_Prob lem
Would you like his source material from the laughable protocols too so people can see the extent of the bile you swallowed?
I've got there is to set your mind free from the everyday bull**** you get to hear about at tv.
:har::har::har::har::har::har:
you really are shooting blind.
You want to let that stuff aside because you consider myself as a revolutionary facka ?
I don't consider you as anything but a sad deluded unthinking neo nazi.
Just as a little note : this one is the very very first thread in which I've been standing up for Mr Ahmadinejad on an international forum based in the US.
So what? I have stood up for him on numerous occasions on this forum over specific things, but he is still a dumb fool of a bigoted excuse of a politician representing a depraved and corrupt regime and I havn't stood up for him simply because I hate jews and Americans like you do.
I just wish everyone to feel the wish to get familiar with that stuff, in order to learn from it.
Lots of people are familiar with it, which is why your views can be instantly dismissed as the vile rubbish they are.
Its so funny, after you last topic ranting about jews I didn't expect you to be silly enough to come back and try selling the "international jew" as a source of learning, then again neo nazis ain't exactly known for their cerebal functions are they:doh:
then again neo nazis ain't exactly known for their cerebal functions are they:doh:
That is absolutely right.
Why? people need to go no further than ford to see you for what you are.
Anyone with a functioning brain can easily identify your views as nothing but pure unadulterated hatred of jews and nothing else.
You seem to be labouring under the delusion that you have some special wisdom because you read something, other people read that crap too and know its crap, you just didn't understand what it was you read.
Just as a demonstration of crap you swallowed and so people don't have to put up with pitying looks of despair finding it at the library or bookstore here is the text you think is the glorious truth.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_International_Jew:_The_World%27s_Foremost_Prob lem
Would you like his source material from the laughable protocols too so people can see the extent of the bile you swallowed?
Pure unadulterated hatred of Jews, you say ?
Hahaha.
Let's consider that your point of view on myself as well as on my way of thinking is fair.
Never did I admit that every information featured in this book had to be taken as pure truth never to appear distorted by the author's own opinion on the matter. The only intention I had when mentioning Ford in this thread was to demonstrate that you could have a critical mind on certain things, without necessarily having the corrupted way of thinking of a german guy during WW2, nor without being the kind of anti-somewhat or neo-something guy you want me to look like.
I don't consider you as anything but a sad deluded unthinking neo nazi.
Hehe.
Well, feel free to consider myself that way.
So what? I have stood up for him on numerous occasions on this forum over specific things, but he is still a dumb fool of a bigoted excuse of a politician representing a depraved and corrupt regime and I havn't stood up for him simply because I hate jews and Americans like you do.
Well, that's indeed your turn to shoot blind there.
Feel free to quote any part of my posts clearly showing anger towards any community without giving any explanation on what I think about it all. I've got to stand up for Muslims, Catholics, everyday Jews, and in real life I also stand up for the life of absolutely everyone on Earth. In fact ? Everyone's got to admit that I've been mentioning I'm an anti-zionist, and that I certainly have never considered it a reasonable way of thinking to show any bad feeling towards anyone without any justification.
And I'm still wondering where I may have been mentioning that I am anti-American in absolute terms according to you. The only thing I've got to say is that sometimes I show scorn and anger towards a little (very hopefully !) part of the American People who's got an imperialist way of thinking never to appear as a justified one in any way.
Lots of people are familiar with it, which is why your views can be instantly dismissed as the vile rubbish they are.
Its so funny, after you last topic ranting about jews I didn't expect you to be silly enough to come back and try selling the "international jew" as a source of learning,
Ford's point of view on this matter certainly is his own : and such as everyone else's point of view, it must be interpreted with some caution.
And yes, this kind of books definitely makes you able to get some people's own opinion-overview on certain things - yet you've got to be smart enough to consider everyone's point of view in hindsight, which is what I've always been doing myself.
And yes, this kind of books definitely makes you able to get some people's own opinion-overview on certain things - yet you've got to be smart enough to consider everyone's point of view in hindsight, which is what I've always been doing myself.
The question is if you are smart enough....there is this Zionist saying "some people are better of ignorant"...not really Zionist :haha:
The issue is not what you read but what your mind can deal with.
Just maybe...you educated your self above your own intelligence....its very common in age of internet.
The issue is not what you read but what your mind can deal with.
True.
Just maybe...you educated your self above your own intelligence....its very common in age of internet.
Yet I will never consider myself as someone educated, I do consider myself as someone a bit less stupid than the average guy.
And I certainly will never admit I can change my way of thinking on certain matters - I would be no more than a liar if I would. There is probably a little part of good causes for which anyone's got to feel he needs to struggle, and he would never be able to drop them, due to the fact he's got to consider them as perhaps the only real fights.
Tribesman
10-10-12, 11:06 AM
Pure unadulterated hatred of Jews, you say ?
Hahaha.
Let's consider that your point of view on myself as well as on my way of thinking is fair.
Never did I admit that every information featured in this book had to be taken as pure truth never to appear distorted by the author's own opinion on the matter. The only intention I had when mentioning Ford in this thread was to demonstrate that you could have a critical mind on certain things, without necessarily having the corrupted way of thinking of a german guy during WW2, nor without being the kind of anti-somewhat or neo-something guy you want me to look like.
Your own posts show you to be a liar.
well done:up:
You not the first and not the last yet this attitude is very prone for manipulation.
Not having "mainstream" opinion not necessary makes you smarter...
So what is really your fight?
Takeda Shingen
10-10-12, 11:36 AM
You not the first and not the last yet this attitude is very prone for manipulation.
Not having "mainstream" opinion not necessary makes you smarter...
So what is really your fight?
As he said to me back in post No. 58, it's not against the Jews. It's against the global Jewish conspiracy. He somehow feels that his belief in such an entity does not render him as anti-semetic, and that there is some sort of distinction to be made. I disagree.
To be honest, I don't think he's all that proud of his views. If he were, he wouldn't refuse to answer and force us to play this silly little game to drag it out of him.
Hottentot
10-10-12, 11:37 AM
Not having "mainstream" opinion not necessary makes you smarter...
Bartender, can I have that written in golden letters, preferably flaming, and framed, please?
Bartender, can I have that written in golden letters, preferably flaming, and framed, please?
CapsLock will do?
Alex, unlike Tribesman I'm not going to dismiss you off the bat, because I believe that, like Skybird, you have an educated mind behind you, and certainly I will not deny that there are elements of Zionism in this world, were there not then the word would not have come into creation.That is very kind of you, Ob'.
But let me tell you I am perfectly happy to have Tribesman and others against me : it would definitely not be a fair game to talk for the sake of talking, without getting people opposing my stance on this point.
Where you and I differ is on the relevence we place upon it. You put the same sort of relevence on Zionism and its evils as some people put upon Islam and its accused evils.
I have absolutely no doubt that there are anti-zionist Jews, and many of them live in America and many of them live in Israel, I have seen pictures of protests by Jewish communities in Washington shortly after Israel boarded that ship headed for Palestinian territory. Good for them, I say.
You are also correct in doubting your sources, a good healthy inquisitive mind, and you are open to the possibility that you may be incorrect, just as I am.
Yet it's definitely not the kind of thing I'm looking for when I'm on the internet, just let me thank you once again for your compliments, Ob'.
I dare say that we will not find all the answers to the questions we ask in our lifetime, and if there is such a thing as a large zionist conspiracy in the western governments, there is very little chance that we will find out about it.
You're absolutely right. That is your opinion on this matter, and you're perfectly entitled to stand up for it. Others got a different one, so let's just keep our eyes and ears open.
This is indeed the only thing we can do.
As for what Zionism is...well, I generally start my searches with wikipedia...it may not be the most accurate of answers, but it generally gives a good idea of what direction to head in.
Wikipedia defines Zionism as:
Other sites describe it as:
Or:Propaganda from all sides gets to appear online. And yet everyone should remember this fact, you may happen to find certain things (http://youtu.be/9SQu9cfcNog) related to the site you mentioned. So, since you're a reasonable guy, I'm sure you'll admit that absolutely everything you can find online has to be taken with a pinch of salt, including on that very-site.
Yet you've got to consider once again the fact that it may be no more than propaganda.
However, a common trend between all three definitions is that Zionism is a form of belief that Israel is a land for the Jews.
If you were to exchange Israel for Germany and Jews for Germans, you'd get a similar style of belief to fascist Germany or even that of the English Defence League "England for the English" as I have oft heard...of course they struggle to define just what 'English' is, but I digress.
The theory that one portion of people are superior to another by the location of their birthplace is not a new one, nor are historical claims to land territory. They are excuses used by dozens of nations throughout history, call it lebensraum, call it manifest destiny, or just good old fashioned imperialism. At the end of the day it boils down to one nation asserting itself over others.
That's fair enough, and I agree that more needs to be done to address the Palestinian question, just as many believed before 1948 that more needed to be done to address the Jewish question. Unfortunately in this state of fear that we live in, this is not likely to take place.
Personally ?
I hold every state in the world in respect, including the one we're talking about - yet I never do it too much especially when it comes to my very own nation.
And I hold every country in such a respect myself that I will not allow myself to make any comparisons between the History of countries. I mean, everywhere in the world everyone's point of view is different, and of course everyone's got the right to stand up for his own life and existence. I just stand here with no more than doubts myself. I'm part of those who feel the wish to understand how things get to happen, and why, period.
So, where does that leave us? Well, Alex, again I find myself unable to corrolate your supportive viewpoints of nationalism in the form of the works of Henry Ford and Mauras and your opposing viewpoint of Jewish nationalism in the form of zionism. However, despite this inability to correlate I conclude that you have a strong belief, just as some here have about Iran, Muslims and President Obama, and I respect your right to have that belief, and I also respect your acknowledgement of the potential for your belief to be incorrect, and like myself and Skybird in regards to Muslims I think we will have to agree to disagree for the time being.
Fair enough ! :yep:
The only thing that I would say, in parting, is that as you do your reading from the library or from the internet, keep...as I am sure you do...an open mind, try to see things from both perspectives, and try not to get drawn into taking sides, because both sides may be right, or both sides may be wrong. :salute:Thank you very much for your advices, Ob'. Yet you don't agree with every person you happen to speak to, you still hold everyone in respect, and that is definitely a display of wisdom from yourself.
Tribesman
10-11-12, 11:36 AM
wow arutz sheva:rotfl2:
wiki is run by the jews, its the illuminati, the rothschilds and the bilderbergs secret jewish freemasons.
Its so funny watching you try and squirm away from your views yet attempt to reinforce them at every turn .
You have even managed yet again to show what sort of fool you are in your sig
well done alex:up:
You have even managed yet again to show what sort of fool you are in your sig
well done alex:up:
What do you mean, man ?
Do you mean you can find some people in the world of whom no one's supposed to make some fun ?
Now THAT would indeed be racism ! You're a racist Tribesman ! :haha:
Tribesman
10-11-12, 11:52 AM
What do you mean, man ?
I mean what I have said.
Do you mean you can find some people in the world of whom no one's supposed to make some fun ?
No, I mean what I have said. I know nazis are dumb but it is pretty simple so even you should be able to grasp the basics.
Now THAT would indeed be racism ! You're a racist Tribesman !
epic fail with the bonus of a CAPSLOCK:har:
Propaganda from all sides gets to appear online. And yet everyone should remember this fact, you may happen to find certain things (http://youtu.be/9SQu9cfcNog) related to the site you mentioned. So, since you're a reasonable guy, I'm sure you'll admit that absolutely everything you can find online has to be taken with a pinch of salt, including on that very-site.
Yet you've got to consider once again the fact that it may be no more than propaganda.
Please teach us what Zionism is about.
the_tyrant
10-11-12, 02:21 PM
wow arutz sheva:rotfl2:
wiki is run by the jews, its the illuminati, the rothschilds and the bilderbergs secret jewish freemasons.
Its so funny watching you try and squirm away from your views yet attempt to reinforce them at every turn .
You have even managed yet again to show what sort of fool you are in your sig
well done alex:up:
Hey bro, you know where I can hand it my resume?
Also, who do I need to bribe or perform sexual favors for to get in?
:rotfl2:
Tribesman
10-11-12, 02:33 PM
Hey bro, you know where I can hand it my resume?
hand it in anywhere , Alex believes its a global jewish conspiracy running everything so clearly any organisation would be the correct one to hand a resume to.
Also, who do I need to bribe or perform sexual favors for to get in?
We can't tell you that till you join, you have to be a paid zionist first like I am apparently.
Then again since its everywhere maybe you are already a member:rotfl2:
hand it in anywhere , Alex believes its a global jewish conspiracy running everything so clearly any organisation would be the correct one to hand a resume to.
Thinking of it why be humble...it would be nice if everything was run by Jews i think.
Ahh for now..Jews have to be blamed for all the crap the open minded flat forehead gentiles do.:O:
TLAM Strike
10-12-12, 10:10 AM
Thinking of it why be humble...it would be nice if everything was run by Jews i think.
We would not be in sixty zillion dollars in debt if the Jews were running things thats for sure. :D
We would not be in sixty zillion dollars in debt if the Jews were running things thats for sure. :D
:har::har::har::har: :up:
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