Houston officer kills double amputee in wheelchair

[Gargamel]

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=UZz7oekc

As a medic for many years, I can fully appreciate their situation, having been in it myself. But this is why cops should carry tasers too. I fully agree force was required on this guy, but not deadly force.

[Tribesman]

He should have shot the tyres.

[Jimbuna]

Sounds tragic to me and it's interesting to see the same officer fatally shot someone in 2009.

Having said that you really need to be in the same position to be able to make a judgement call.

[eddie]

Tragic all the way around for everyone involved.

[soopaman2]

Sounds tragic to me and it's interesting to see the same officer fatally shot someone in 2009.

Having said that you really need to be in the same position to be able to make a judgement call.


There was also 2 officers at the scene, the other one couldn't tip his wheelchair over, while the other coward got backed into a corner with a pen?

The big blue wall will protect them, no charges, and suspended with pay at worse.

[Jimbuna]

There was also 2 officers at the scene, the other one couldn't tip his wheelchair over, while the other coward got backed into a corner with a pen?

The big blue wall will protect them, no charges, and suspended with pay at worse.

That may or may not turn out to be the case but either way the findings of the investigation will be interesting to see.

[soopaman2]

That may or may not turn out to be the case but either way the findings of the investigation will be interesting to see.


You have faith that I lack.

Just weeks ago NYPD officers fired (16 shots) into a crowd to kill a man who deserved to die most likely.

But hit 9 civvies, on a swamped street, 5th avenue is mobbed this time of morning, it was reckless, and no regard to the citizens given.

I see no charges on them yet, not even some kind of mild reckless endangerment.

But at least they shot the perp 7 times, high 5 right?

The big blue wall always wins. You underestimate our police unions.

[Jimbuna]

Probably because I've never been shot and always on the right side of the gun (behind the trigger) :03:

[soopaman2]

I am simply saying we are a land of laws, and if someone with a tin badge is exempt from them (the ones expected to enforce the law, while allowing for due process under our constitution), then what justification does the private gun owner have to stop him from killing anyone he wants when he wants?

We are a nation of laws, and the police mandate is to protect and serve, not kill and gloat.

People wonder why we have so many gun maniacs, we learn from our authorities. They can do it, we pay them to do it, why can't we? I got an ar-15, a Taurus .380 and a glock 9. Enough to hold off a band of "Terrists"

I never felt the urge. ( I am a wizard with the ar-15, I could paint a happy face on a paper target at 75 yards. Slightly crooked, but you know;))

But my fear is this will somehow be twisted into some anti-gun crap, or we become like the British Bobbies and not carry guns.

I see the need, but feel a LEO should be held accountable for every shot they fire. Just as I am.

Edit: alot of LEOs are not made of responsible gun handlers, but of guys looking for an excuse to discharge it, for man points in the precinct.) I do not see guns as a joke, some cops do, they see it as a tool to use, like a hammer.

But sometimes a wrench and some wd40 is better than brute forcing it. This case is one of them.

Also, no pepper spray or taser? One arm and one leg armed with a pen, and outnumbered by police? really?

Is this a Texas gunhappy NRA thing I am missing as a northern "lib" (pardon the curse word, liberal is worse than the f word)

I always took you guys for more sensible than most of us...

So where is this mans due process?

[Jimbuna]

I am not a US citizen but one from the UK and I can only comment on the potential consequences should an identical situation happen in my country.

I'm sure you'll be well aware of the difference in opinions, attitudes and laws regarding firearms here in the UK....basically ALL hand guns and automatic weapons are banned since a series of gun killings over the last decade.

Whenever a firearm is discharged by a police officer, whether anyone is wounded or killed is immaterial, it is policy that an investigation is carried out by an independant authority....best practice IMHO but there you go, and it would appear our public are tolerant of the process.

[Gargamel]

Jim and others in uniform will back me up in this, but officers are trained to escalate the required force necessary to control a situation. You do what you have to do.

If a man, wheelchair bound or not, comes at you with what you perceive to be a knife, you cannot let him get within arms reach. If a man draws a gun on you, you have to prevent him from shooting you.

[Gerald]

Similarly, in Sweden, the laws here and over the Atlantic is very large, is also the wearing of arms, which is the practice in Sweden but not in the UK, and when I am talking not only about strengthening weapon called when needed by the problem that must be addressed.

[soopaman2]

Jim and others in uniform will back me up in this, but officers are trained to escalate the required force necessary to control a situation. You do what you have to do.

If a man, wheelchair bound or not, comes at you with what you perceive to be a knife, you cannot let him get within arms reach. If a man draws a gun on you, you have to prevent him from shooting you.


Where was the other Officer? Did they not enter in a staggered stance?

I am not anti police, please do not take it as so, but something about this stinks.

Seriously.

I understand you will defend the uniform ,but what about the people? What about the law, and due process?

When has "bringing criminals to justice" become killing them?

What did this guy do, did it merit a fatal gunshot wound?

Laws, all should follow them, even your pals in uniform.
I love how no one cares...Until they shoot someone you care about. Then it becomes a tragedy, rather than some scum "getting his"

Maybe the problem is you are defending the uniform, blindly. And see citizens as gum on your bootheel Or due process, as a burden, and not a boon,...I'll refrain from arguing further then, I do not need late night visits by your clan in blue, and excuses from your unions.

[mookiemookie]

Our wonderful HPD makes national news again.

The cop made a mistake by letting himself get cornered. Unfortunately the victim had to pay the price of the officer's mistake with his life. :nope:

[soopaman2]

I have to say, I am not attacking police, and want to make that clear.

I made a post in the comment thread the other day applauding a LEO for helping me, without me even having to call them or flag him down.

I am simply questioning procedure in this particular case.

Not a blanket attack.

My comments on the big blue wall, are valid. Ask Mr. Amadou Diallo, who got sodomized with a plunger, and officers protected. Ask the guy in NYC who had 3 officers firing on him, some of them reloading as he pulled his wallet out, when they asked for ID. Did they need fifty something shots? (no don't ask, he is just another dead perp,)

Just saying, I am sure you guys are great officers, but how you protect your nasty corrupt brothers is what pisses people off.

I at least see who is getting the real protection and serving, it is not the citizens.

You do know innocent until proven guilty, alot have forgotten that.

Too many judge Dredd folks... Not enough Kojaks.

(Telly Savalas rocks. No debating me on that;))

[Jimbuna]

Our wonderful HPD makes national news again.

The cop made a mistake by letting himself get cornered. Unfortunately the victim had to pay the price of the officer's mistake with his life. :nope:

If an enquiry supports that then the consequences will be warranted, I'm simply stating I believe the authorities should have the opportunity to investigate the matter fully and 'hopefully' impartially.

[Stealhead]

So you are not attacking the police but attacking them.:hmmm:

You like to site the bad examples not the good ones there are plenty of good cops out there and plenty that actually have challenged it when the "Big Blue Wall" was wrong.

Look up Smedely Butler and he is far from the only example.

[Gargamel]

When you shoot, you shoot to kill.

There is no training for your average officer to disarm an assailant. Look at the ny shooting. Those guys were shooting to hit the torso, and what was their hit rate? 60-70% at best (I didn't check). Now you ask them to hit some bodies wrist holding a gun. What about shooting their leg then? Probably wouldn't have stopped the dude in a wheelchair.

Those electric wheelchairs are HEAVY, btw. 200-400 lbs for the chair alone, and they have treads. You can't grab one and pull it aside. and their fast too, they could be considered a weapon as a car is.

I would assume the cop underestimated te guy and was cornered before he realized it.

Cops piss me off as much as anybody, and as a group I really dont like them. But as for individuals just trying to do a job, I feel for those guys put into a situation that suddenly gets out of control.

[Gerald]

When you shoot, you shoot to kill.

There is no training for your average officer You shoot because she or he must be neutralized, or (disarmed) and it is not synonymous with the dead, at least not here in Sweden.

[Jimbuna]

So you are not attacking the police but attacking them.:hmmm:

You like to site the bad examples not the good ones there are plenty of good cops out there and plenty that actually have challenged it when the "Big Blue Wall" was wrong.

Look up Smedely Butler and he is far from the only example.

Are you referring to me with the above?

[soopaman2]

So you are not attacking the police but attacking them.:hmmm:

You like to site the bad examples not the good ones there are plenty of good cops out there and plenty that actually have challenged it when the "Big Blue Wall" was wrong.

Look up Smedely Butler and he is far from the only example.

I made a post the other day thanking an officer for helping me without being asked, it is in the comment thread.

Gargamel, I understand shoot to kill, very sound training.

But did you have to shoot? (not you in particular, sir)

They have no other means to dispatch a threat? (a threat in a wheelchair with one arm and one leg)

Thank you for your service, but stop protecting your bad apples, it makes the citizens feel as if we are having our intelligence insulted.

But we are all dumb if we don't suck on the government teat, I am sure that is coming, you guys know what is best for us, not us?

Justify your unions protecting utter scumbags, like the cases I mentioned?


My Judge Dredd reference still stands in this particular case.
Notice I try not to call them cops. That is respect. I am simply asking why you let people like this stain the rest, because you share a union patch?

You can always have someone ban me, because I am not shutting my criticism up in this case.

[Gargamel]

Well that was my point, where the hell was his taser?

Oh, I was a medic, not a cop.

I stopped trusting cops when one gave my squad a parking ticket, with the flashers on.

[soopaman2]

Thanks for your service nonetheless.

I appreciate all public servants.

But have no problems killing (bad pun) those who damage the public trust.

I could forgive it, and would have made no beef of this had he not killed someone before.

Some people, just do not belong with a gun.

It is hard to tell who at times, but when a reason manifests itself, and gets swept under a rug...OK stuff happens... Then he does it again?

I am not as angered by the event, as I am the protection he will receive. I want for once some fellow officers to actually condemn this behavior.



Well, ya know. Fantasy land...