A noobs thought(s) on SH5 after playing it for a week or so...

[Raven Morpheus]

Hello

I'm new to the Silent Hunter series in general, I briefly played SH4 a while ago but discarded it as I found it too difficult but I think I was being too impatient and didn't quite learn the basics properly, so I plan on revisiting it. However SH5 has rekindled my enthusiasm for the Silent Hunter series, to the point that I've played nothing else for the last week or so since I bought it for £1 on Uplay.

But one thing concerns me over the "simness" of the game.


I'm dubious of the realism in terms of how the world in SH5 is recreated. I have considered this just now as I thought about taking a trip to the Arctic/Antarctic to see if they've modelled it so you can navigate it ad possibly surface, just for the sheer hell of exploration more than anything.

I was going through the straights of Dover the other day and decided to use the external camera to have a look around, so I zoomed all the way up to Dover to see if the famous white cliffs have been modelled and I was deeply disappointed as I couldn't see any sign of them and the port didn't seem like a major port at all. Perhaps I was looking at the wrong part of Dover with regards to the cliffs?

The whole way the world is modelled seems rather lack lustre as I'm sure that naval bases, for example Plymouth, were bigger and more heavily fortified than they are in SH5.

In fact all the ports I've encountered so far in SH5 that are not the main bases at Kiel and Wilhemshaven (and I'm dubious about those also) seem to be rather generic and poorly detailed.

I get the feeling that the entire Silent Hunter series suffers from this?

I've come from sims, like IL2 1946/Cliffs of Dover (and also highly detailed racing sims) which do attempt to at least put in key geographical features - you fly over Dover you see the famous white cliffs, although I think even the IL2 series lacks a few things as Dover castle is not visible (or present IIRC).

Maybe it's because I've only just entered 1940 (having only just completed Total Germany) and the landscape does indeed change but I doubt it as naval bases, such as Plymouth, should have been bigger and more fortified than they are in the game already from what I understand and I doubt that the cliffs around Dover will suddenly pop into existence. Thus I feel a bit let down by SH5 in this respect.


Still a great game, with or without mods though, I just wish the land geography at the waters edge they've created was more like the real 1930s-1940s geography than a cookie cutter set of harbours - it smells of lack of research and enthusiasm for the world they are creating.

[9thinfSword]

You might want to check out New York kind of fun and in SH4 San Fransisco was a treat, With regards to being able to sail around the world many key land marks where left out and that is true of the game as a whole. Small detail's make the adventure real. However the ocean is full of water and mainly featureless, hope its salty atleast. Maybe they got that right!:haha:

[Sailor Steve]

I get the feeling that the entire Silent Hunter series suffers from this?
Yes they do. The problem is that the original sub sims had no land at all, except for generic stuff to tell you land was there. The idea was no to create a "look at the world" sim, but a "be a submarine captain and sink ships" sim. In the classics Aces Of The Deep and Silent Hunter (1) you had a cut scene of your boat leaving the dock, and then you started at sea. Your only contact with land was the fact that it was there. SH2 was the first to include a harbor at all, but the game was so bad in other areas that it didn't really matter. SH3 has home bases and other ports, but they are wildly inaccurate. SH4 follows suit. Mods have helped a lot but they're still a long way from perfect. SH5 is actually the best of them in this regard.

Maybe it's because I've only just entered 1940 (having only just completed Total Germany) and the landscape does indeed change but I doubt it as naval bases, such as Plymouth, should have been bigger and more fortified than they are in the game already from what I understand and I doubt that the cliffs around Dover will suddenly pop into existence. Thus I feel a bit let down by SH5 in this respect.
No, they aren't modeled in.

Still a great game, with or without mods though, I just wish the land geography at the waters edge they've created was more like the real 1930s-1940s geography than a cookie cutter set of harbours - it smells of lack of research and enthusiasm for the world they are creating.
The whole of SH5 is that way. The harbors are the least of my worries.

[Trevally.]

The Sh5 map is very close to real.

Just look at scapa flow - I am sitting here looking out my window and it is just how it is in the game (nearly:D)
oh ya but the trees are wrong:O:

As for the harbours - just look at the files to see how real they look.
Some of the main ones (yes Kiel) are fully detailed - other like Plymouth are just generic harbour models.

Also - I would not listen too much to what Steve says about Sh5 - he cant play it so can only guess what the game is like:arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

As for the harbours - just look at the files to see how real they look.
Some of the main ones (yes Kiel) are fully detailed - other like Plymouth are just generic harbour models.
Does Kiel really have 6-meter high concrete walls everywhere? I never knew that.

Also - I would not listen too much to what Steve says about Sh5 - he cant play it so can only guess what the game is like:arrgh!:
Yes, I did get to play it for a few weeks before my computer decided it was too much. I even posted some screenshots. :sunny:

[Trevally.]

Does Kiel really have 6-meter high concrete walls everywhere? I never knew that.

Oh well - you saw it here first:O::D

Anyway - Im sure it does not really have all the scratch marks caused by my early versions of harbour pilot on the piers either:O:


Yes, I did get to play it for a few weeks before my computer decided it was too much. I even posted some screenshots. :sunny:

A few weeks on a low spec pc - im sure this would put anyone off:D

:sunny:

[gap]

Anyway - Im sure it does not really have all the scratch marks caused by my early versions of harbour pilot on the piers either:O:

:haha:

[Sailor Steve]

Oh well - you saw it here first:O::D

Anyway - Im sure it does not really have all the scratch marks caused by my early versions of harbour pilot on the piers either:O:
I will gladly admit that I overstated my case. SH3 originally didn't even have the Kaiser Wilhelm Canal. All that cool stuff in SH3 is due to mods. SH5 benefitted from that when the devs included some of the landmarks.

The Bad: I agree that prominent sights like the White Cliffs of Dover would be a great asset. Worst is the appearance of u-boat bunkers in Keil in 1939, when they weren't finished until 1944, and having one at all in Wilhelmshaven.

I would also like to see working locks where appropriate, as was done for LSH3.

The Good: Mods like thfeu58's Changed and Additional Harbours mod. And the amazing graphics, of course.

A few weeks on a low spec pc - im sure this would put anyone off:D
Actually I would have kept playing in spite of that, but one day something weird happened to the bunker screen and I can't progress beyond it, so for me the game is now literally unplayable.

[gap]

Actually I would have kept playing in spite of that, but one day something weird happened to the bunker screen and I can't progress beyond it, so for me the game is now literally unplayable.

To think that every so often someone menaces to throw his high spec computer out the window, if he doesn't manage to get the game to work.

Steve, I suggest you to wait in front of their houses with a mattress near at hand, just in case some of them decides to keep his promise ;) :D

[Trevally.]

To think that every so often someone menaces to throw his high spec computer out the window, if he doesn't manage to get the game to work.

Steve, I suggest you to wait in front of their houses with a mattress near at hand, just in case some of them decides to keep his promise ;) :D


:har::rotfl2::haha:

[Sailor Steve]

:yep: :rotfl2: :rock:

[Herr Kaleun Eilering]

Agreed. Would have been fun if they added more landmarks. But as someone said before, try visiting New York.

[Pintea]

I know that what matters in the end is the shipped game, so stating that these kind of landmarks were in the original plan doesn't really matter right now :)

This is a submarine sim after all and land plays a very small part in the gameplay. Given a smallish team, imagine the amount of developer resources put on this task.
The terrain/harbor technology changed from SH4 to make it look better, but that meant that all harbors had to be recreated. Even so, some new landmarks still managed to get in over previous versions.

BTW, did anyone get to see Christ the Redeemer yet ? :)

[Trevally.]

I got lost using real navigation and had to head close to shore to get my bearings - Where can I be:doh:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6166/ny1i.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6195/ny2d.jpg

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2200/ny3n.jpg

[Trevally.]

Still lost :doh:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1013/cr1s.jpg

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1091/cr2r.jpg

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8877/cr3g.jpg

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4586/cr4d.jpg

[gap]

I got lost using real navigation and had to head close to shore to get my bearings - Where can I be:doh:

Still lost :doh:

:haha:

Ask Onkel Karl to equip your navigator with the full Lonely Planet series ;)

[Trevally.]

:haha:

Ask Onkel Karl to equip your navigator with the full Lonely Planet series ;)

I think I know where I am - Land of the Giant Trees:know:
(even with Sobers real trees:doh:)

http://conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=956526&stc=1&d=1271387859

[gap]

I think I know where I am - Land of the Giant Trees:know:
(even with Sobers real trees:doh:)

yeah, huge but sparse. Standing to your screenies, seems that Corcovado was undergoing a strong desertification process during 40's. :-?

Luckily recent Greenpeace's programs for protecting the equatorial forest have scored a big step forward: :up:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/351505.jpg

Trevally, can you visit my native city and see if devs did remember to put the statue of St. Rolia, our patron, on top of Mt. Pellegrino? ;) :D

http://www.crewcharter.it/palermo/palermo_citta_charter_nautico.jpg
View of Palermo, with its port and Mt. Pellegrino on the background

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3405/3668019140_1921b190d6_z.jpg http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/24859_425879754504_4476421_n.jpg
The so called "Santuzza": St. Rosalia

[Raven Morpheus]

Thanks for the pics. Odd that they bothered putting the Christ the Redeemer statue in place somewhere near the in-game version of Rio and also made what seems to be a nice looking New York (in context to the game) but couldn't be bothered to do things like reasonably accurate harbours elsewhere or the White Cliffs around the UK's coast.

So far in the career I'm currently playing I've seen more of the coast of the UK than I have of New York or Rio (i.e. I've seen neither in-game), chances are I'll never see NY or Rio unless I actively go and visit them.

Go figure.

[THE_MASK]

They didnt have time probably . Thats why they gave modders a great tool to do it :yep:

Go to Documents\SH5\data\cfg\main and edit out the ; so it looks like this
[DEVELOPING]
Modding=Yes
;MenuEditor=Yes
DebugScripts=Yes

In game options tick windowed mode

Make the game resolution smaller than your monitor resolution

Start the game again

While playing the game your submarine has to be near where you want to alter the geography .

If you have windows 7 right click on the top task bar and choose Terrain geometary editor .

Edit the terrain .

How to http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B48gYYglnALiNzU5ZWQ2MWUtMzZmYS00NGVkL WIyYzEtZWE4MzhmMDAzNWNj&hl=en

When edited go to Silent Hunter 5\data\Terrain\Data\DetailMasks and look for the new files that wre just created (look by newest date is easiest)
Copy these to a new folder somewhere and package them up into a mod .
This is at dover in the game . I just made those cliffs , took about half a minute . Needs someone with some artistic skills unlike myself .
http://i48.tinypic.com/2mnrf5f.jpg

[Raven Morpheus]

Nice. :up:

Now how about HMNB Devonport (Plymouth) or any other of the major ports that ought to be far bigger and far more fortified?

Don't get me wrong, I know modding of the terrain is possible (I can't do it myself but I'm sure I could mod other bits of SH5 if I bothered to take a look at the game files and learn, I certainly can do basic edits to textures), but I think it'd take many years and quite a few unpaid part time modders to "finish" the terrain off so the ports look realistic and key geographical features (like the aforementioned cliffs) are present on the map where they should be present. And 2 years since release, despite the game being eminently moddable (compared to many games I've played), I haven't seen many major scenery/terrain mods around (unless I've overlooked something?).


It just simply amazes me that a company can release a game, marketed as a sim, but not bother with accurately simulating the scenery, when other current games seem to be able to do far better, especially when it's a major company such as Ubisoft who for all intents and purposes have the resources to do it (and coincidentally produce/publish other games in the "sim" genre that offer far better scenery visuals, IL2 Cliffs of Dover for example, although that still has it's problems).

It definitely adds to the realism, which ever way you look at it. When I'm sneaking into Plymouth to sink Ark Royal I'd like to see HMNB Devonport when I pop my periscope up out of the water to look around, not some generic looking harbour. Mind you I doubt a U-Boat would have ever realistically been able to make it's way into HMNB Devonport to sink Ark Royal whilst she's in port. :rotfl2:


The software tech is out there to enable Ubisoft to do that. Perhaps it would require a completely new game engine though, as I understand it SH5 is built on top of SH3/SH4. Guess we'll have to see what SH6 brings (if it's being made, get the feeling SHO is the route the SH series will take from now on), be nice if it brings an accurately detailed environment outside of the sub/ships/water.


I guess if I were a reviewer I'd sum SH5 up as a great looking game that vastly improves on the look of SH3/SH4, so long as you ignore the land based scenery.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Trevally.]

As Sober has said - the terrain and object editors are easy to use.
If you find your self updating these ports - send me a copy and I will be more than happy to add them to OHII:up:

[gap]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/White_cliffs_of_dover_09_2004.jpg

from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Cliffs_of_Dover):

The White Cliffs of Dover are cliffs which form part of the English coastline facing the Strait of Dover and France. The cliffs are part of the North Downs formation. The cliff face, which reaches up to 350 feet (110 m),[1] owes its striking façade to its composition of chalk accentuated by streaks of black flint. The cliffs spread east and west from the town of Dover in the county of Kent, an ancient and still important English port.

[...]

The cliffs are located along the coastline between approximately: Latitude 51°06'N, Longitude 1°14'E and Latitude 51°12'N, Longitude 1°24'E. Shakespeare Cliff marks the point where Great Britain most closely approaches continental Europe. On a clear day, the cliffs are easily visible from the French coast.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/White_Cliffs_of_Dover_map.png/800px-White_Cliffs_of_Dover_map.png

This information, some extra pictures, Google Earth, Terrain Editor and the tutorial recommended by sober is more than we need to bring the White Cliffs in game. :up: