Former Marine detained by FBI for facebook posts

[yubba]

Did you miss me, well here's a whopper that will certainly make your heads spin, it seems that our glorious government can just come and scoop you up with out a warrant and detain you, if you don't agree with the empire. I never thought I'd witness such a thing here in America, welcome to post constitutional america. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/attorney-of-former-marine-detained-for-facebook-posts-to-beck-psychiatrist-threatened-to-brainwash-my-client-with-meds/comment-page-2/?corder=desc#comments,,,,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6yLflp_1dQ,,,,,

[yubba]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6yLflp_1dQ ain't this a beautiful thing to watch.

[Oberon]

You posted the wrong video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca9GuwuOVZc

[yubba]

tanks oberon I totally forgot that , man I'm slippin.

[Oberon]

tanks oberon I totally forgot that , man I'm slippin.

You've been away too long, that's what it is. :yep:

[antikristuseke]

Did you miss me

Not really.

[Tribesman]

well here's a whopper that will certainly make your heads spin
So its a numb nuts truther who was sectioned for making crazy threats.:yawn:

[Ducimus]

man I'm slippin.

Nothing new there. :haha:

[yubba]

So its a numb nuts truther who was sectioned for making crazy threats.:yawn:
Still the government had no right to even mess with this guy it's called the constitution, and he didn't make any threats as far as I know, maybe you should provide some proof before you say anything against someone.

[AVGWarhawk]

So its a numb nuts truther who was sectioned for making crazy threats.:yawn:

I did not see where threats were mad. :hmmm: "Truther" he is.

[Oberon]

Personally I think that the Singaporean government is involved in this. :yep:

[Tribesman]

I did not see where threats were mad. :hmmm: "Truther" he is.
You mean stuff like Cutting off peoples heads while starting the revolution against the evil US government?
Did you think they could describe him as a possibly dangerous nut to a judge if he only wrote that the evil feds blew up the twin towers?

Interesting to see that his defence team was only trying to get him transfered to the local secure mental facility rather than the one that deals with mentally disturbed ex-servicemen as the VA facility was further from his home for the family to visit him.

[mapuc]

I do not know how to understand this thread.

Do you make fun of the mentioned because he is a "Truther"?

Or do you make fun of the thread?

If you making fun of this person. I can not understand why?

Has this person not entitled to have his own opinion about certain things, such as 11/9

Or has the American expression been restricted, in such a way that it no longer is allowed to have a different opinion than the official around 11/9

or what

Markus

[Takeda Shingen]

I do not know how to understand this thread.

Do you make fun of the mentioned because he is a "Truther"?

Or do you make fun of the thread?

If you making fun of this person. I can not understand why?

Has this person not entitled to have his own opinion about certain things, such as 11/9

Or has the American expression been restricted, in such a way that it no longer is allowed to have a different opinion than the official around 11/9

or what

Markus

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/former-marine-detained-after-alleged-facebook-threats/

Well, if I were so inclined to make fun of Raub, it would probably be for this:

***8220;If you are my friend, you deserve to know the truth. This world is secretly run by a shadow organization of people who among other things enjoy raping children. Some of leaders were involved with the bombing of the twin towers. It was a sacrifice and a complete inside job. Also the Bush***8217;s [sic] are very sick twisted problems. I believe they have a secret Castle in Colorado where they have been raping and sacrificing children for many years. Think I***8217;m crazy? Think again.***8221; Raub wrote in a July 28, 2012 Facebook post.

And this:

On August 7, 2012 Raub posted to his profile a picture of men in robes by a lake with the caption, ***8221; Do you know that world leaders sacrifice children in robes?***8221;

Or perhaps you believe that the secret castle and robed ritual sacrifice are also worthy of serious consideration. I'll leave that to you.

[mapuc]

That's new to me. I just read the article in the first posting in this thread and about his believe in the 9/11 conspiracy.

The article you posted made me sick in the stomach

And I do NOT believe in his sick opinion about this castle.

I see his statement not as an threat, but as a sick insulting to your former president Bush and many others

I fight for a person's right to have his or her own opinion how sick it may be, as long it's not illegal of any kind.(and that's not the SAME as i believe in what this person say)

I heard about it yesterday, when a friend of mine posted an article on his wall I didn't read the article in the link, Just the headlines. Then I Saw Yubba's thread about the same. Then I read it and your opinion to it .

Markus

[Takeda Shingen]

That's new to me. I just read the article in the first posting in this thread and about his believe in the 9/11 conspiracy.

The article you posted made me sick in the stomach

And I do NOT believe in his sick opinion about this castle.

I see his statement not as an threat, but as a sick insulting to your former president Bush and many others

I fight for a person's right to have his or her own opinion how sick it may be, as long it's not illegal of any kind.(and that's not the SAME as i believe in what this person say)

I heard about it yesterday, when a friend of mine posted an article on his wall I didn't read the article in the link, Just the headlines. Then I Saw Yubba's thread about the same. Then I read it and your opinion to it .

Markus

I knew you didn't think that, and my comment was in jest. Also, no, I am not making fun of Raub. Raub has some serious issues.

My two cents: In Raub, we have a man that thinks that world leaders are ritually sacrificing children in Colarado, and has allegedly made vague threats about some sort of action. His own former platoon leader said that Raub is the kind of person to make good on threats, and to top it all off, yes he was a former Marine. So, he is a guy with a delusional world view who is making threats and has small arms and hand to hand combat training to boot.

How many times have we seen people say that the writing was on the wall in the aftermath of events such as the Oklahoma City bombing and Columbine? People always lament that nobody acted. Well, somebody acted this time. Good on them.

[yubba]

You better watch out ,,, You better not cry ,,, better not pout,,,, I'm tellin you why,,,, because ,,,the FBI is comming to town .... They see you when you're sleeping ,,,, they know when you're awake,,, they know when you're naughty or nice, so be good for heavens sake.
So this guy mention cutting off heads in reference to a rap song he heard on a closed page of facebook, so who did he threaten again, I would be more worried about the black panthers talking on the air waves of killing whitey and calling for revolution {warning vile language}http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTAEtO2iENQ .
So why did the FBI think they needed to mess with a Marine, I also like the thought, that the FBI needed at least 10 pair of boots on the ground to take 1 Marine, cowards. So you better watch out ,,, you better not cry ,,, better not pout,,, I'm tellin you why ,,,, Because the Marine Corps is comein tooo town. You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us, you tipped your hand,, and now we are on to you, I see all these government agencies are buying millions of hollow point rounds, to bad they are pistol rounds, you won't get that close to a Marine. Still no warrant, no complaint, no arrest, and a judge found that the FBI violated his rights....

[Takeda Shingen]

Well, if the FBI wasn't reading this thread before, they are most certainly reading it now.

[eddie]

So you better watch out ,,, you better not cry ,,, better not pout,,, I'm tellin you why ,,,, Because the Marine Corps is comein tooo town. You mess with one of us, you mess with all of us, you tipped your hand,, and now we are on to you, I see all these government agencies are buying millions of hollow point rounds, to bad they are pistol rounds, you won't get that close to a Marine. ....

Seriously doubt anyone from the Corps is coming to his rescue.
All these rounds that the Govt is supposed to be buying, is right from the "Conservative Alerts" daily BS,lol

http://www.conservative-daily.com/2012/08/24/ammunition-stockpiling-obama-and-napolitano-preparing-to-overthrow-the-american-government/

[Platapus]

Raub talked about the Illuminati, a shadow organization in which "some of the leaders were involved with the bombing of the twin towers" and the "great amount of evil perpetrated by the American Government." He said people may think he was going crazy, but a "civil war," the "Revolution" is coming.

"I'm starting the Revolution. I'm done waiting."

On July 24, he said he was at a "great crossroads. As if a storm of destiny is about to pick me up and take me to fight a great battle."

On August 9 he talked about severing heads and told the generals he was coming for them.

On August 13, he wrote, "Sharpen up my axe; I'm here to sever heads."

On August 14, Raub wrote, "The Revolution will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to lead it."

On August 15, Raub wrote, "And they will say he said it to the NSA first."

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/facebook-terrorism-marine-arrested-9-11-conspiracy-posts-terrorist-nature

This is always a tough call. What if he had gone postal, then the public would be crying "Why did we not do something when all the signs were there"?

I don't think this was the thought police infringing on a citizens right to state political opinions. The wording of some of his writings would, to a prudent person, indicate the chance that he was intending to take action. All we have are his words that he chose to publish. We can't know if he was joking/venting or whether he was intending on taking the action.

It is a tough call. Where is the line? Who decides where that line is?

We do not live in a peaceful society. We do have individuals who are taking violent actions against citizens. We also have citizens who like to joke/vent on the Internets Tubes.

How much False Positives are we willing to accept for a low number of False Negatives? And who chooses?

My opinion?

I can post on the Internets Tubes that Bush/Obama is a fink; that our congress sucks, and that generally I am really pissed at the current state of our government, that Bachmann is a skanque, and Pelosi is a crook.

All that is, and should be, protected under the First Amendment.

But as soon as I cross "the line" of making threats, that's when, in my opinion, I start moving outside my constitutional rights.

Now the argument can be made about the difference between credible threats and non-credible threats.

The evaluation on the credibility of threats comes after an investigation. Not before.

People have to recognize that threats are being perceived as being credible unless there is clear evidence otherwise. When people post threats on the Internets Tubes, people are taking this seriously and rightfully expect the authorities to investigate.

Now whether the government properly investigated in this specific instance is unknown as I am sure we do not have all the information.

I may, if the facts are ever released, even believe that the government did not investigate this person properly. But I do think that the government has the right and responsibility to investigate people making threats against government people.

[CaptainHaplo]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/former-marine-detained-after-alleged-facebook-threats/

Well, if I were so inclined to make fun of Raub, it would probably be for this:
And this:
Or perhaps you believe that the secret castle and robed ritual sacrifice are also worthy of serious consideration. I'll leave that to you.

While his beliefs are not mainstream - there is nothing in them that constitute any kind of threat. A man is free to believe what he chooses. Nothing in the article linked show any violent posting - other than the quote from a rap song. So how many other people on facebook are posting violent lyrics from songs - and how many others have been arrested?

The only other claim regarding "violent" posts refer to his communications that were directed to friends in reference to them all being involved in playing an online game with each other. So how many people talk smack when your playing games with your friends? How many are "psychologically detained" for it?

I don't know WHY this is happening - but the mere fact that it is makes one have to wonder why the powers that be - are reacting to him this way. If his beliefs were not so outlandis - it could possibly make one think he might be right...

[Tribesman]

So why did the FBI think they needed to mess with a Marine
Because being an ex-marine doesn't make you special, an ex marine can be just as crazy and believe in just as many crazy NWO theories as any other dickhead,.
You claim to be an ex marine and you spout absolute nonsense , does being an apparent ex marine make you immune from the nonsense you spout?
If you said you was starting a revolution instead of saying you was hidng in your basement with a cache of ammo and a slice of worms while avoiding the Fema death camps does it make you a possible threat or just a sad bugger in a basement

I don't know WHY this is happening
Because you have a recent history of ex servicemen going extreme right wing crazy and an "active" attempt by extreme right wing crazies to both enlist themselves and recruit pathetic sympathetic servicemen wingnut conspiracy theorists to the "patriotic" cause.
Bloody simple isn't it:yeah:


On the day that is the day is any of the apologists for this poor creature going to compare his freedom of speech episodes with poor old oppressed only playing a game Brevik?
All that is, and should be, protected under the First Amendment.

But as soon as I cross "the line" of making threats, that's when, in my opinion, I start moving outside my constitutional rights.

Now the argument can be made about the difference between credible threats and non-credible threats.

The evaluation on the credibility of threats comes after an investigation. Not before.

Clesrly you are a UN stooge and are willing to allow the French British Chinese and Russian to vote with Obama to request a peacekeeping force in Lubbock

[mapuc]

As some of you wrote-his statement is not an threat, maybe an insult to some politicians.

And as I see it- Then one of these politician can sue him and take him to a court.

I'm not an neonazist, Communist, Gay lover, a.s.o BUT!! I fight for their rights to have their opinion, how sick it may be. And it's not the same as I would respect their believes-I don't

Markus

[Oberon]

It's a tricky situation, and you can see why agencies like the FBI and CIA have missed suspects before. For all we know this man could have been another Whitmann. It is most likely going to turn out that he wasn't, but how do you act? Do you let the shootings and bombings happen first and then arrest the individual, or do you take a chance and do it before the event.

Just remember how many people were screaming at the FBI and CIA after the Oklahoma bombings, and all the other tragedies. "Why didn't we do something about it before it happened?" "Why wasn't this man noticed by the system and stopped before he killed all these people".

Well, you can't have it both ways. Either you are prepared for bombings to happen, or you are prepared for arrests to happen. I can't say I like the idea of whatever I write on Twitter of Facebook being used against me, but to be honest, before the internet if you wrote something down on a piece of paper, signed it with your name and glued it to walls all over town, and then got arrested, then what you wrote would be used against you in a court of law, just as anything you said whilst being arrested would, as per the Miranda warning.

[yubba]

Well, if the FBI wasn't reading this thread before, they are most certainly reading it now.
Good let them read it, I have a first amendment right to speak my mind, as long as I don't shout fire in a crowded building, or make threats of harming anyone, I'm good, and if the black panthers can get away with the calling to kill white people the, FBI can explain why they get a pass it is equal justise for all the last I recall, and if I stay in the confinds of the rules of this forum I will speak my mind in this matter, it is my right and my duty. I took an oath to defend the constitution from all enimies foreign or domestic, not this government or this administration and that feeling goes with every vet I know. See you in November. Speaking of November why don't, one of you masterminds tell me what the big deal is about showing an I.D to vote, heavens knows if the democats win, it will be yourz paperz pleazzzz at check point charlie.

[the_tyrant]

The moral: If you walk out of a bar drunk, randomly threatening people. Only your drunk buddies can hear your drunk ramblings.

If you pull out your phone and do the same thing on facebook, everybody can read it(and with auto correct, your ramblings would be more coherent)

thus, the moral is, don't say stupid things on the internet

[Takeda Shingen]

and if I stay in the confinds of the rules of this forum I will speak my mind in this matter, it is my right and my duty

Yeah, about that; threatening law enforcement with violence is probably outside the bounds of what Neal wants on the forum. You may want to check some of your wording. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here because I really don't want to see you brigged or banned.

EDIT: Just be very careful, please. I think you're an okay guy, and everything was fine up to the second paragraph in post No. 17.

[mapuc]

Yeah, about that; threatening law enforcement with violence is probably outside the bounds of what Neal wants on the forum. You may want to check some of your wording. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here because I really don't want to see you brigged or banned.

Your answer, made me think

What is strongest in USA-your first amendment
Or a owner of a forum and his or her rules

Can a person set aside your basic rights

Let say that this person is from USA and he or she, created a forum, like this one and they rules was made so that your first amendment was set aside.

Is that legal?? Just wondering

Markus

[Takeda Shingen]

Your answer, made me think

What is strongest in USA-your first amendment
Or a owner of a forum and his or her rules

Can a person set aside your basic rights

Let say that this person is from USA and he or she, created a forum, like this one and they rules was made so that your first amendment was set aside.

Is that legal?? Just wondering

Markus

On a private internet forum, yes it is completely legal. Since Neal pays for this space, he is able to decide what he wants discussed here and what he does not. For example, the discussion of software piracy and the posting of pornographic images are forbidden. Images of violence and gore are also banned. Most profanity is also not permitted. And violence against law enforcement is most certainly not going to fly.

Neal has given the example, and it is a good one, of a radio talk show host. The host gets to screen the calls to decide which get aired and which do not, as is his right. This is no different. Another example is a resturant owner that does not permit smoking in certain areas of the establishment, or a nightclub owner that reserves the right to keep certain individuals from entering the club.

In short, if you want to do those things, you can make your own website to do it. But the site owner has final say about what goes on his bandwidth.

[Rilder]

Your answer, made me think

What is strongest in USA-your first amendment
Or a owner of a forum and his or her rules

Can a person set aside your basic rights

Let say that this person is from USA and he or she, created a forum, like this one and they rules was made so that your first amendment was set aside.

Is that legal?? Just wondering

Markus

Well the way it is, is that that a forum is generally treated as someone's personal property, and as such the owner can deny you access for any reason at all. Neal for example could ban you for any reason including if he doesn't like your post, the same way you can tell someone to get out of your house.

You can say whatever you want but you might be denied access to Neal's property if you say the wrong thing.

Edit: beat to the punch while writing this.

[CCIP]

I think there is also a fine line between expressing an opinion in a public/private forum, or uttering a threat in public. Try loudly joking about having a bomb in your pants at an airport or a national landmark, and see what happens...

Also, just because some Black Panther or White Power guy got away with it before without being prosecuted does not make it okay to do the same. That is not a defense, legal or moral.

[Hottentot]

You can say whatever you want but you might be denied access to Neal's property if you say the wrong thing.

Which is what the whole freedom of speech thing is about anyway: you can say whatever you want, but there may be consequences (which, I might add, yubba acknowledged too.) So unless Subsim adopts a policy of the mods reading and censoring posts before they are posted on the forums, there isn't really anything to complain about anyway.

[mapuc]

On a private internet forum, yes it is completely legal. Since Neal pays for this space, he is able to decide what he wants discussed here and what he does not. For example, the discussion of software piracy and the posting of pornographic images are forbidden. Images of violence and gore are also banned. Most profanity is also not permitted. And violence against law enforcement is most certainly not going to fly.

Neal has given the example, and it is a good one, of a radio talk show host. The host gets to screen the calls to decide which get aired and which do not, as is his right. This is no different. Another example is a resturant owner that does not permit smoking in certain areas of the establishment, or a nightclub owner that reserves the right to keep certain individuals from entering the club.

In short, if you want to do those things, you can make your own website to do it. But the site owner has final say about what goes on his bandwidth.


Thank you for your response.

In other words, you have the right to express yourself freely, as long as such opinion does not insult a person's personal integrity

So, personal integrity, is higher than your first amendment.

Even though you may write what you would in this forum, it will not make me use invectives words against my friends here, even if we were to disagree on some topics.

Markus

[CaptainHaplo]

Markus - you misunderstand.

The first amendment guarantees the right of free speech. Yet it does not mean that you can say anything anywhere. It means you are protected from GOVERMENT oppression trying to "shut you up". The Constitution - and its amenments - apply to the rights the people have that the GOVERNMENT cannot infringe upon. They do not apply to how individuals interact between each other.

Let me provide another example. The Constitution protects against "unreasonable search and seizure" - so the cops are not supposed to be able to come snatch you "just because". They have to have legal reason to do so. Now - that protects you from the GOVERNMENT seizing you and tossing you out of a public area, for example. However, if your on private property - the OWNER of the property has every right to toss you off his land if he wants - he doesn't have to have a reason at all. See the difference?

Because subsim.com is not a governmental entity, the 1st does not guarantee anyone the right to be here and communicate without interference. It says the GOVERNMENT cannot interfere - it can't come in and shut subsim.com down for example simply because they didn't like what was found here (they could - but then Neal could sue the bejesus out of em for it ). However, Neal - as the owner of the site - can set rules that are MORE restrictive than anything the government could legally place - because it is his "property".

I hope this makes the difference clear for you.

[CCIP]

It's interesting (and, admittedly, pretty cool) how much US constitutional rights lean towards those of private property, more by circumstance than anything. Normally, there is a lot of hoops that the government needs to jump through to be able to show up at your door and exert its will. Arguably this is a very good thing.

The tricky thing, of course, is when you behave a certain way in a) public space or b) someone else's property. People on the internet need to remember that they're not in their own back yard, but that they're in a whole jumble of both public and private space. That can be difficult to grasp when you're sitting at your computer desk in your own home, but you've gotta have some respect both for public safety and for the wishes of those whose space you're using to speak.

I think Subsim is run in a very casual sort of manner where you get treated like a neighbour with common sense, but that don't mean there's no rules and wishes of the owner to respect!

[Sailor Steve]

Markus - you misunderstand.


I hope this makes the difference clear for you.
:yep:

Very well said. A lot of people, even Americans, don't realize that the Constitution itself is a guidebook for running the government; what it can and can't do.

The Bill of Rights, and the Amendments that follow it, are for the express purpose of defining what the government may not do. If it applied to everyone we wouldn't see signs saying things like "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service!", or "Private Property...Keep Out!"

[mapuc]

@ CaptainHaplo, thank you, your explanation helped me alot.

I see that our differences in free speeches is not that far.

Yes even the danish have the right to express him self-However there are some laws that he must obey

and that's
§ 266b(the most hated law in Denmark) and the royal law that forbids you to offend the Queen or some of her family. and some other laws, that in a way reduce the possibility to total free speech

Once again thank you, for clearing things out for me.

Markus

[mookiemookie]

However, if your on private property - the OWNER of the property has every right to toss you off his land if he wants - he doesn't have to have a reason at all.

With certain restrictions - private property being used to serve the public, like a restaurant, store or theater, must abide by the Civil Rights Act. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964) If you're a restaurant, you can't throw out someone just because they're black. If you're a hotel, you can't say you won't rent rooms to Jews. If you're a grocery store, you can't say Mexicans can't shop there.

[eddie]

Even the KKK or American Nazi Party can hold legal public rallies, as long as they have the legal permits from the local authorities.

[CaptainHaplo]

With certain restrictions - private property being used to serve the public, like a restaurant, store or theater, must abide by the Civil Rights Act. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964)If you're a restaurant, you can't throw out someone just because they're black. If you're a hotel, you can't say you won't rent rooms to Jews. If you're a grocery store, you can't say Mexicans can't shop there.

Very true and a good point!

[Oberon]

An interesting bit of morning reading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19372177

It always makes me wonder with these 'overthrow Obama' and 'civil war' enthusiasts in the US, what do they intend on replacing Obama with? No-one would be able to agree on a single candidate and Congress would spend the rest of its short existence fighting itself over it. So perhaps you send in the military? Well, that's good...but do you really think they'd be willing to hand the power back over at the end of it?
Sometimes, you don't realise just how lucky you are to have something until you don't have it, in this case it is a stable 'democratic' system, and I hope for your sakes that you continue to have it because however terrible some Americans may think it to be, it is far better than the alternatives.

[yubba]

I think, we can beat him in the election, it looks pretty promiseing, same with the senate races, if it comes down to violent revolution it will come from the left, as history has shown us, communism and socialism has been forced on to a people by gun point. I stumbled across an interesting little group called, The Oath Keepers you can google them, I don't want to be accused of spamming and too think, I thought I was all alone, nice to know others take an oath seriously.:salute: I know I have been called a right wing nut job so, how constitutionally impared are you to call me that.???????:doh::doh::doh:

[mookiemookie]

Yeah, patriot militia groups are always a great idea with a great track record of not acting absolutely friggin' insane in this country. They're something to be proud of, buddy.

[Oberon]

...as history has shown us, communism and socialism has been forced on to a people by gun point.

Not always the communists and socialists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Mussert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidkun_Quisling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%931974

Like it or not, both the Left and Right wings are quite capable of holding revolutions of their own.

So, I ask you again, if Obama wins the November elections, what are you going to do then? Join a Patriot movement? Seek to overthrow the government?

[Hottentot]

Not always the communists and socialists:

Well there you go, ruining a perfectly valid attempt at using "history" as a cheap two copper coin prostitute for hot air rhetorics. You evil, evil bad person man! I hope you feel better now! :stare:

Let me try getting this back on the track: physics has shown us that the sandwich always falls with its buttered side hitting the floor. Have you ever stopped to consider why? It's a conspiracy, I'm telling you! Physics has shown us so!

[Oberon]

Well there you go, ruining a perfectly valid attempt at using "history" as a cheap two copper coin prostitute for hot air rhetorics. You evil, evil bad person man! I hope you feel better now! :stare:

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2010/7/14/f4be66fc-36a6-47d4-8217-5a94b33a1b61.jpg

[Tribesman]

I stumbled across an interesting little group called, The Oath Keepers
:har::har::har::har::har::har::har:
Another bunch of loonies, you gotta love these "patriot" groups

I thought I was all alone
No, there is never any shortage of them, delusional paraniod people with wierd conspiracy theories are quite common.

Yeah, patriot militia groups are always a great idea with a great track record of not acting absolutely friggin' insane in this country. They're something to be proud of, buddy.
FREEEEEEDOM:rotfl2:


So yubba a nice ex marine patriot who is keeping the constitution and defending America, lets take former marine Jason Ready of the US border guard which is an offshoot of the minutemen nuts. were you ready to rush to his defence when the police went after the loony tunes right wing nutcase who was sworn to defend your borders as the evil feds were not doing their job and sworn to hunt mexican drug dealers as the evil feds were not doing their job.
Put your money where your mouth is and go to Arizona for vengeance on the evil government who went after this "patriot", after all if they gop for one ex marine they are going for you all ain't they

[yubba]

So I guess it normal that once a year the government has too mess with a Marine Corps vet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN35GLxmk1E so who's looney a government out of control, or the people that live under tyranny. So laugh it up, I think your side is losing:O:

[Oberon]

Yes, I'm sure Obama has personally ordered all serving and non-serving US Marines to be rounded up, shot, arrested and sent to FEMA death camps.

[Sailor Steve]

In that order.
:rotfl2:

Obama is the devil incarnate. So was Clinton. So was Kennedy.

Oh, I'm on the wrong side this week. It was Bush who was the devil incarnate. So was Bush. So was Reagan.

[Tribesman]

So I guess it normal that once a year the government has too mess with a Marine Corps vet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN35GLxmk1E so who's looney a government out of control, or the people that live under tyranny. So laugh it up, I think your side is losing:O:

So between the police raid and the drug gang in fighting how many in that group are now dead and how many are up on even more charges over the families multi-milliom dollar drug smuggling operation?

You really know how to pick em yubba:har::har::har::har::har:

But please respond properly and try and defend that woman beating child murderer, after all you want to make an issue that the out of control government have to go once a year to deal with marine vets don't you:doh:

[yubba]

And the NRA is really full of loonies it is nice too know there is more people looney than I it kinda gives me a warm an fuzzy feeling, I'm glad you can laugh while your team is looseing, I guess that you're not that bad of a person after all, hope you get a good nights sleep knowing that all these loonies are gettng the word out how ugly the left really is., I guess you know nothing about damage control. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8N91O04EhE&feature=related

[eddie]

Yes, I'm sure Obama has personally ordered all serving and non-serving US Marines to be rounded up, shot, arrested and sent to FEMA death camps.

I hope there is an age limit, I was in the Corps from 68-72. I'm to old to go,lol

[Oberon]

I hope there is an age limit, I was in the Corps from 68-72. I'm to old to go,lol

FEMA death retirement home? :hmmm:

[Betonov]

death retirement home? :hmmm:

Aren't they all. Really, anyone ever checked out from one of these places ??

[em2nought]

In that order.
:rotfl2:

Obama is the devil incarnate. So was Clinton. So was Kennedy.

Oh, I'm on the wrong side this week. It was Bush who was the devil incarnate. So was Bush. So was Reagan.

I thought everyone agreed that Cheney was the devil. :D

[Tribesman]

And the NRA is really full of loonies it is nice too know there is more people looney than I it kinda gives me a warm an fuzzy feeling, I'm glad you can laugh while your team is looseing, I guess that you're not that bad of a person after all, hope you get a good nights sleep knowing that all these loonies are gettng the word out how ugly the left really is., I guess you know nothing about damage control. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8N91...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8N91O04EhE&feature=related)

Well i could start with a nice joke about a not trusting a man with a moustache, should I go onto his humans?
No seriously that person can't honestly be that fruity can he?
Then again he is followed by Alex Jones of all people:rotfl2:
Talk about king of the crazy kooky klub theories, its FEMA gonna get ya

You really do deliver, are you just trolling to make "right wing "patriots"" look even crazier?

[Sailor Steve]

I thought everyone agreed that Cheney was the devil. :D
Only the ones who know what they know, and what you and I don't know, and we can't know that because the ones who know what the others don't know know without knowing that they know more than we know.

Cheney is the devil behind the devil. There are other devils behind him. The lesser devils work for devils they don't even know about.

Trust me on this. I know. :03:

[yubba]

Where Viki, and Samuel Weaver were murdered by Federal agents http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/22/ruby-ridge-when-many-officials-realized they were killed, over a pair of under cut shot guns sold to under cover agents by Randy Weaver. Whom ended up with 3 million dollar settlement from the government 20 years ago and still the government has not learned a thing. They can't secure the border but they can sure step on our rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge wow years ago to the day, almost, Remember Ruby ridge and Brandon Raul, We the People are innocent until proven guilty, get a warrant and get your facts straight.

[Cybermat47]

Once more, I'm glad to be Australian.:woot:

[Cybermat47]

I thought everyone agreed that Cheney was the devil. :D

That's just being mean to the devil.

[yubba]

Once more, I'm glad to be Australian.:woot:
How long before guys start eaten with chop sticks over there ??????

[Tribesman]

Where Viki, and Samuel Weaver were murdered by Federal agents http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/22/ru...cials-realized (http://reason.com/blog/2012/08/22/ruby-ridge-when-many-officials-realized) they were killed, over a pair of under cut shot guns sold to under cover agents by Randy Weaver. Whom ended up with 3 million dollar settlement from the government 20 years ago and still the government has not learned a thing. They can't secure the border but they can sure step on our rights.



Come along darling, cough up the goods.
One click away from your previous link courtesey of Alex Jones and his global conspiracy of Jews and Masons you have that child murdering "patriot" ex marine featuring with the oath keepers you seem to admire, doing a nice wingnut rant on the first and second amendments and the evils of the government and immigrants and paper money.
You want to stick up for those bloody idiots by posting this "patriot" militia nonsense then speak up and defend those vile scum.

Instead you dig yourself deeper into the realms of murdering scum,not an ex-marine this time but that brave child murdering ex serviceman who slaughtered 19 little kids in Oklahoma claimed it was standing up for Randy Weaver against the evil government

[Oberon]

"I know we heard talk today about some day you may see those in the uniform, in violation of their oaths, pointing their guns at you, their masters, in an unlawful way...."

What...you mean, a bit like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Kent_State_massacre.jpg

Or this:

http://ourstruggle.org/images/jacksonstate.jpg


I guess it's just an Obama thing... :yep:

[Tribesman]

Is that a Tommy Cooper impersonation in the second picture Oberon?

[Oberon]

Is that a Tommy Cooper impersonation in the second picture Oberon?

"An' they shot ah me...jus like thaht..." :03:

[yubba]

Come along darling, cough up the goods.
One click away from your previous link courtesey of Alex Jones and his global conspiracy of Jews and Masons you have that child murdering "patriot" ex marine featuring with the oath keepers you seem to admire, doing a nice wingnut rant on the first and second amendments and the evils of the government and immigrants and paper money.
You want to stick up for those bloody idiots by posting this "patriot" militia nonsense then speak up and defend those vile scum.

Instead you dig yourself deeper into the realms of murdering scum,not an ex-marine this time but that brave child murdering ex serviceman who slaughtered 19 little kids in Oklahoma claimed it was standing up for Randy Weaver against the evil government Oh, sorry I didn't know he was a hero of yours nice to know I got you frauthin at the mouth, guess what in this country you are innocent till proven guilty, no one person has the right to be judge, jury and executioner,...that's what I stand for, you on the other hand,, scare me, just like Harry Reid "I got a phone call from a reliable scource that Mitt Rommeny hasn't paid his taxes in ten years" show me some proof too your wild claims and prove me wrong.

[eddie]

FEMA death retirement home? :hmmm:

Ohhhh Nooooooooooo!! They'll probably take my Social Security check just to buy more bullets too!:wah:

[yubba]

Not always the communists and socialists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Mussert
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidkun_Quisling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%931974

Like it or not, both the Left and Right wings are quite capable of holding revolutions of their own.

So, I ask you again, if Obama wins the November elections, what are you going to do then? Join a Patriot movement? Seek to overthrow the government? My thoughts are that we don't comply, there are ways to turn this government around peacefully and it's all about money, get your money out of the banks first that will make the bankers whine, tax revolt, peaceful strikes, and wait till the government fires upon us , Like the Brits did in Lexington no offence that will truelly show their colors., then it will be another ball of wax, the tea party is a hell of a movement I think we can get the vote. 5 weeks dangerous times don't know what this cat will do. if things go really bad I 'll go down into a spider hole for a couple weeks got a nice spot picked out in the marsh with a couple off 12 ft alligators for watch dogs,. In my trade I work better alone.

[Cybermat47]

How long before guys start eaten with chop sticks over there ??????

When China or Japan invade. In other words, never.

[Cybermat47]

What...you mean, a bit like:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Kent_State_massacre.jpg

Or this:

http://ourstruggle.org/images/jacksonstate.jpg


I guess it's just an Obama thing... :yep:

OMG, in the second picture, if you look at the guy on the far right at a distance, he sort of looks like cole phelps from L.A. Noire:haha::hmmm::k_rofl:

[Chad]

OMG, in the second picture, if you look at the guy on the far right at a distance, he sort of looks like cole phelps from L.A. Noire:haha::hmmm::k_rofl:

Cole thinks to himself, "Hmm, bullet holes, how can I warp this crime scene into thinking it's somewhat related to the stolen Morphine and prosecute someone for selling it."

Kidding aside, LA Noire is a great game, I really enjoyed it.

[Kongo Otto]

How long before guys start eaten with chop sticks over there ??????

How long before you end up in a well deserved straitjacket ??????

[Tribesman]

Oh, sorry I didn't know he was a hero of yours nice to know I got you frauthin at the mouth
Sorry to let reality intrude into your crazy ex-alcoholic delusions, but it is you who is defending those crazy child murderers and you who is linking to certifiable fruitcakes and conspiracy theories spouted by useless racist scum.
Since you refuse to condemn them then clearly they are your heroes.

That is why people can write ....How long before you end up in a well deserved straitjacket ?????? ....and it makes pefect sense.

the tea party is a hell of a movement I think we can get the vote.
Well done, that child murdering ex marine you apparently support happened to stand for election with the tea party.
Its one hell of a movement.

In my trade I work better alone
Cleaning toilets wasn't it?

[Oberon]

The fumes from toilet cleaner have a lot to answer for... :hmmm:

[Tribesman]

The fumes from toilet cleaner have a lot to answer for... :hmmm:
Maybe he did a Father Jack with the toilet duck.

[August]

Sometimes, you don't realise just how lucky you are to have something until you don't have it, in this case it is a stable 'democratic' system, and I hope for your sakes that you continue to have it because however terrible some Americans may think it to be, it is far better than the alternatives.

Well said. Those calling for overthrowing our government rarely realize just what they might be loosing.

[Tribesman]

Well said. Those calling for overthrowing our government rarely realize just what they might be loosing.

True, most revolutions just replace one bunch of idiots with another bunch of idiots who to all intents and purposes may as well be identical to the first bunch of idiots.
However some revolutions end up replacing one bunch of idiots with a bunch of absolute nuts

[Hottentot]

True, most revolutions just replace one bunch of idiots with another bunch of idiots who to all intents and purposes may as well be identical to the first bunch of idiots.
However some revolutions end up replacing one bunch of idiots with a bunch of absolute nuts

Or in the most tragicomic case idealistic revolutionaries with no idea of the realities of state running. Case in point: Lenin and free speech.

[Oberon]

Maybe he did a Father Jack with the toilet duck.

:har::har::har:

[Oberon]

True, most revolutions just replace one bunch of idiots with another bunch of idiots who to all intents and purposes may as well be identical to the first bunch of idiots.
However some revolutions end up replacing one bunch of idiots with a bunch of absolute nuts

Reminds me of this advert:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJVJj5mNOSY

[Onkel Neal]

Since this thread has somehow reached five pages, I would like to address a few points.


It's interesting (and, admittedly, pretty cool) how much US constitutional rights lean towards those of private property, more by circumstance than anything. Normally, there are a lot of hoops that the government needs to jump through to be able to show up at your door and exert its will. Arguably this is a very good thing.

The tricky thing, of course, is when you behave a certain way in a) public space or b) someone else's property. People on the internet need to remember that they're not in their own back yard, but that they're in a whole jumble of both public and private space. That can be difficult to grasp when you're sitting at your computer desk in your own home, but you've gotta have some respect both for public safety and for the wishes of those whose space you're using to speak.

I think Subsim is run in a very casual sort of manner where you get treated like a neighbour with common sense, but that don't mean there's no rules and wishes of the owner to respect!

A very good thing. :yep:


An interesting bit of morning reading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19372177

It always makes me wonder with these 'overthrow Obama' and 'civil war' enthusiasts in the US, what do they intend on replacing Obama with? No-one would be able to agree on a single candidate and Congress would spend the rest of its short existence fighting itself over it. So perhaps you send in the military? Well, that's good...but do you really think they'd be willing to hand the power back over at the end of it?
Sometimes, you don't realise just how lucky you are to have something until you don't have it, in this case it is a stable 'democratic' system, and I hope for your sakes that you continue to have it because however terrible some Americans may think it to be, it is far better than the alternatives.

That's the truth, but most of these extremists on both sides cannot grasp it.


As some of you wrote-his statement is not an threat, maybe an insult to some politicians.

And as I see it- Then one of these politician can sue him and take him to a court.

I'm not an neonazist, Communist, Gay lover, a.s.o BUT!! I fight for their rights to have their opinion, how sick it may be. And it's not the same as I would respect their believes-I don't

Markus

I'm all for rights too, but there is a point where extremists can use the law to disrupt society with harmful effects. No thanks.

Yeah, about that; threatening law enforcement with violence is probably outside the bounds of what Neal wants on the forum.


It definitely is. I am not fond of the crazy conspiracy posts, and if they have threats of violence, they have to go. This is not the forum for that kind of thing.

On a private internet forum, yes it is completely legal. Since Neal pays for this space, he is able to decide what he wants discussed here and what he does not. For example, the discussion of software piracy and the posting of pornographic images are forbidden. Images of violence and gore are also banned. Most profanity is also not permitted. And violence against law enforcement is most certainly not going to fly.

Neal has given the example, and it is a good one, of a radio talk show host. The host gets to screen the calls to decide which get aired and which do not, as is his right. This is no different. Another example is a resturant owner that does not permit smoking in certain areas of the establishment, or a nightclub owner that reserves the right to keep certain individuals from entering the club.

In short, if you want to do those things, you can make your own website to do it. But the site owner has final say about what goes on his bandwidth.

Just to be fair and clear, I pay for a small part of the running costs of this website, forum, and download bank. The rest is covered by the contributors you see in the donor's corner top right. Some contributors (some of the biggest ones) wish to remain anonymous, and I respect that, but I do want to make sure everyone is aware, this is a community effort.

That being said, it is the moderators and I who sets the tone of the forum. We love discussions, welcome all viewpoints, and will work with those who feel there are no limits to what common sense and good taste can endure. God love 'em, the moderators are very patient and very diligent. They are here week in and week out, helping hold this community together and they are very successful.

I personally almost never respond directly to the posts that scream "ker-ray-zee!" I love the First Amendment, but in this forum, there is only a small role for crazy to fill.

[soopaman2]

True, most revolutions just replace one bunch of idiots with another bunch of idiots who to all intents and purposes may as well be identical to the first bunch of idiots.
However some revolutions end up replacing one bunch of idiots with a bunch of absolute nuts

Most revolutions start with good purposes. The seeds of it are sown that way. (Americas founding fathers never wanted us to be world police, they wanted us to be left alone) But the taste of power usually corrupts even the best of intentions. Down the line, we became exactly what we rebelled against.

Maybe that is why the founding fathers added this line to our declaration of independence.

"Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it"

This page explains it well.
http://www.founding.com/the_declaration_of_i/pageID.2426/default.asp

Better than I can explain it without making myself sound like some kind of ass.:D

Right to bear arms reinforces this belief of mine.

[Tribesman]

This page explains it well.

True, but the government wasn't being destructive of these was it in this case, it was serving its citizens as it should.
It was the family and friendfs of this apparantly loony "patriot" who alerted the local authorities that he appeared to be going crazy by swallowing too much conspiracy theory nonsense and may have been becoming dangerous.
Given the proven track record of these loony "patriots" the local authorities were right to assess his mental state as these loony "patriots" have a rather strange "patriotic" habit of murdering innocent US citizens.

Unless of course you believe those crazy links yubba kindly supplies where the "patriots" doing the murdering are really working for the secret government which is the same as the real government and you have got to join the "patriots" in their struggle against the real government which is run by the secret government which is against the "patriots" they are running which they support but oppose but .....
Sorry what was it again ?
oh yeah its the hispanic jewish illuminati freemason socialist bankers of the atheist muslim persuation.
Damn I forgot to mention the reptilians and the secret south pole.:03:
Why do those links posted always lead back to the same crazy sources?


The only aspect which might be of concern on your angle there is the sloppyness with which the local legislature reworded one part of one of the State laws.
It is the right of the people to alter or ablish that in Virginia...by lobbying them or by using the vote at election time, arming bears doesn't even come into it.

[Bubblehead1980]

No matter what, this man's rights were violated because he expressed an opinion(as idiotic as it may be) that was not a threat and he was detained for it.The fact that people are so willing to bend over for the government is amazing.

[Tribesman]

No matter what
wow the legal "expert".:doh:
What where when and how always matter, who and why also matter, these them that and those also happen to matter.
lesson 101 of legal issues young man.
terms and conditions apply:know:

He was not detained because he expressed an opinion, he was detained because his family and friends told the local authorities they thought he was crazy and may be dangerous.
The rights issue which his real legal experts addressed was not the detention but the location of his detention. His lawyers said he belonged in the local nuthouse not the veterans hospital.
But hey they are actual lawyers so obviously don't know nuffin just like the actual lawyers at your law school who know nuffin you complained about .:rotfl2:

[Sailor Steve]

Maybe that is why the founding fathers added this line to our declaration of independence.

"Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it"

This page explains it well.
All very true, but don't forget that the Founding Fathers didn't want the revolution. They tried to get the Parliament to listen and work with them right up until the government shot first.

[Oberon]

Speaking of revolutions:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19408479

:/\\!!

[Hottentot]

Prosecutors say the men formed a militia called Fear, standing for Forever Enduring Always Ready.

:rotfl2:

Seriously, how do they come up with this stuff?! Are they related to these guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Woodchucks) somehow? I can't stop laughing!

[August]

:rotfl2:

Seriously, how do they come up with this stuff?! Are they related to these guys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Woodchucks) somehow? I can't stop laughing!

Wasn't so funny to the two people they murdered to keep them quiet...

[Hottentot]

Wasn't so funny to the two people they murdered to keep them quiet...

Just because some people are dangerous doesn't mean their idiotic little fantasy realities can't be ridiculed. I likewise find Breivik's fantasies of the Knights Templar worth ridiculing, yet I'm glad he was locked up. Two different things.

[Penguin]

:sign_yeah:

ridiculing murdering bastards follows a long and fine tradition, John Heartfield is a good example:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5104/johnheartfield.jpg

[August]

:sign_yeah:

I never said he couldn't laugh, I only pointed out that the victims (and their families) aren't likely to be laughing with him.