US Barb and Capn Lucky Flucky

[She-Wolf]

anyone know about the daring exploits of this chap in the war? I ask because someone has just sent me an e-mail about him and his plucky crew blowing up a train...

[Sailor Steve]

The "Galloping ghost of the China coast"?

Start here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_B._Fluckey

Then you might want to check out the books by him:
http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Below-Revolutionizes-Submarine-Warfare/dp/0252066707/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344972096&sr=1-1&keywords=eugene+fluckey

And about him:
http://www.amazon.com/Galloping-Ghost-Extraordinary-Submarine-Fluckey/dp/1591144566/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344972096&sr=1-2&keywords=eugene+fluckey

And if you're feeling rich you can by a print signed by the man himself:
http://www.usni.org/store/historical-art-prints/limited-edition-lithographs/galloping-ghost-china-coast

[Armistead]

Most of us are fully aware of this ego driven maniac...:haha:

You can easily do a such online or go buy the book "Thunder Below"

No doubt he was brave, but many question was he foolish, but it seems he had plenty of luck to mitigate his often viewed recklessness.

For instance, in one of his attacks in shallow water along the China coast, a lookout spotted a mine floating right by the sub. The area was mined, he pulled off a heck of an attack, but if not for a few yards, the Barb probably would've hit the mine and blown up. If that had happened, he would've been considered an idiot.

[She-Wolf]

Oh, I have heard of the 'Galloping Ghost' I think - one of the mods mentions him doesn't it? - didn't realise it was the same person. The article sent to me makes him out to be a very caring skipper, but I had never heard of him, or the US Barb. I kinda guessed you folks would know about him:D

[I'm goin' down]

why is my boat named the barbarinna?

Someone once posted his log entries in the forum. They described his crew landing party go ashore in Japan and blowing up a train. One of the landing party members was a cook. The Barb's battle flag has a train on it.

[She-Wolf]

Indeed, I have a pic of it (boat and flag, complete with chuffa train).
I think I am inclined to agree with those who view his behaviour as leaning on the rash side in respect of the train blow-up; taking his sub into such shallow waters, surfaced and in full view of the nearby sentry tower ( albeit it was dark), risking the lives of his crew for what - glory and a big bang? He was indeed 'lucky'. Sort of thing you might read in a Boys Own comic I s'pose. I would like to think that if it were me, my crew would rate higher than derring-do.

[TorpX]

I guess I have a somewhat different view of his exploits. While risky to be sure, I don't think most of his operations were that much more hazardous than 'normal' sub ops. Going from memory, I think his night surface attack on a Japanese anchorage was his most dangerous attack. If I had been in his place I would probably have stayed in deep water, but I won't ridicule his decision. It was a matter of going where the ships were, or staying safe and letting them go. I give him credit for figuring out what the IJN was doing, and knowing what he had to do to block them. Certainly, there were captains who didn't make surface/shallow water attacks. I expect most of them didn't sink many ships, though.

Thinking about some of the Allied and Axis operations in WW II, like the Doolittle Raid, the Anzio landings, or Operation Market Garden, Fluckey's raids seem like examples of prudent sobriety.

[She-Wolf]

I bow to your greater knowledge TorpX - bit still, I am glad I was not a member of his crew...:yep:

[Rockin Robbins]

You would have to read Thunder Below. Also my wife's grandfather was a fellow submariner and friend of Admiral Fluckey's. I assure you he was not lucky. He took carefully calculated risks and his crew never felt that he unnecessarily endangered them. Fluckey's strategies were carefully thought out and tested on the principle of learning from other people's mistakes to avoid making your own.

Fluckey was an innovator, an original thinker who was a master at using other people's experiences to determine what was possible. He did love being in charge, but that is a characteristic of many ultra-successful people and if you can't live with it go work for a loser. Fluckey bragged about his boat and his crew much more than he bragged about himself.

Finally, when Admiral Lockwood retired, who was promoted into his place? Fluckey, that's who. Establishment military does not promote people who take unwarranted risks with their lives or the lives of others. War is dangerous but dead men don't win battles. Much better than sacrificing your life for the cause is requiring your enemy to sacrifice his. Fluckey, like George Patton, was a genius at helping this process. However, he was a much more likeable guy and there wasn't a submariner in the fleet that wouldn't have traded places with any crewmember of Fluckey's.

[HW3]

The story of the train mission is told here http://www.eugeneleeslover.com/USNAVY/USS_Barb.html

:salute:

[BigWalleye]

She-Wolf, all the members of the raiding party were volunteers, there were many more volunteers than places in the party, and RAdm. Fluckey included himself as leader of the raiding party until forced to withdraw by a mini-mutiny of his officers. Check here: http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles/profiles_fluckey.html
The rest of Fluckey's (and Barb's) exploits were no more risky than those of other successful boats and commanders, although he lasted longer than many. Fluckey was indeed "Lucky" because he was one of the few early-war skippers to both be successful AND survive till the end of the war. In this, he was more fortunate than, say, Morton or Dealey, but they and others all took similarly great risk.

All US submariners were volunteers, and only the best of every rank got to stay in the boats. Anyone who felt it was too risky could get off at the next stop.

Having been born with one useless eye, I have never served in the military, much less in combat, I have only respect and gratitude for those who have done my fighting for me. YMMV

[Rockin Robbins]

Fluckey was not an early war skipper. He didn't begin his career with Barb until late in 1944, August if my memory serves me right, which sometimes it doesn't. This was when the vast majority of subs were coming home full of torpedoes, supposedly unable to find targets.

[BigWalleye]

I stand corrected. Wikipedia says he took command of Barb in April 1944. Somehow, I'd thought he was a commander in '42. I hadn't realized that he got the MOH and 4 Navy Crosses for 5 consecutive patrols.

BTW, and apropos of She_Wolf's comment, under Fluckey's command, no Barb received the Purple Heart, and all crew members came back safely from each of his patrols. It seems Barb was actually a pretty safe berth.

[Rockin Robbins]

Fluckey's book ends with a roll call of all the awards given to boat and crew members, ending with the statement that there is one medal that he's proudest of because no crew member ever received it and that was the purple heart. No injuries among any of his crew for any of the five cruises.

Fluckey, in my book, stands head and shoulders above all other sub skippers of the war. He knew enough to copy success and avoid others' failures. He had the imagination and drive to find targets when no one else could. And he had the sense to prosecute his unconventional war in relative safety and with the wholehearted support of his crew. He was no Captain Bligh. And he was no Mush Morton on a suicide mission to hell. His was a carefully considered war on the terms most favorable to his boat and crew.

Note the amount of time he took and the consideration he gave to my wife's grandfather in his autograph in Thunder Below. This was no prima donna, contemptuous of normal men and better than everyone else. This was a leader who yes, loved to lead, but did not do it out of a sense of puffed up privilege but out of a sense of duty.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/100_7762.jpg

[She-Wolf]

My view of him has been amended and enhanced thanks to your staunch defence of him Rockin Robbin and Walleye. I can see I shall have to read the book..:)

[BigWalleye]

Robbins, if Ned Beach is to be believed (and Heaven knows he was not an emotionally detached historian in 1946), Morton ws suffering from some pretty serious stress-related issues by the time of Wahoo's seventh war patrol. He had just gone in and out of the Sea of Japan and come back with nothing to show for it, largely (again, from Beach) due to the chronically defective torpedoes. He set out to prove a point, not the best mental attitude for the challenges he was facing. Before that, he was bold, and his successes helped break the Submarine Service out of the prewar mind-set. But nothing I've read suggests he was suicidal. On what are you basing your judgement?

[merc4ulfate]

"Audaces fortuna iuvat"
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:Kaleun_Periskop:

[Tempest555]

Strip the saccharine and flowery language away and you have to have a leader with some of what's displayed here-and willing men. Now you have to ask yourself-and be honest with yourself-do you want to be that willing?
Because there more followers then leaders in this life. And if you are a leader-how far are you willing to go?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdbug_mxKks


I'm 59. Had peaks and valleys. There is no Tooth Fairy.

Can't say you weren't warned.

FWIW.

[BigWalleye]

Tempest555, you seem to want to add to this discussion, and you seem to have a point you'd like to make. Now, maybe I'm just a bit thick, but for me, that point gets lost in the subtlety. Robbins has said clearly where he stands. I think I have done the same. Where do you stand?

[Rockin Robbins]

Robbins, if Ned Beach is to be believed (and Heaven knows he was not an emotionally detached historian in 1946), Morton ws suffering from some pretty serious stress-related issues by the time of Wahoo's seventh war patrol. He had just gone in and out of the Sea of Japan and come back with nothing to show for it, largely (again, from Beach) due to the chronically defective torpedoes. He set out to prove a point, not the best mental attitude for the challenges he was facing. Before that, he was bold, and his successes helped break the Submarine Service out of the prewar mind-set. But nothing I've read suggests he was suicidal. On what are you basing your judgement?
I don't think he considered himself suicidal. He just considered himself and his boat expendable in the prosecution of the war. Through all his cruises crewmembers requested transfers because they thought Morton took too many chances.

Maybe he did and maybe he didn't. Fighting the war means making the choice to put yourself in harms way. Who's to say that when Morton and Wahoo were bombed on the surface and sunk that they were doing anything unroutine and considered unsafe? But Beach's and Lockwood's opinion was that Morton's judgement was impaired and that he should not have been sent on that last cruise. Had Morton returned with a bag of merchies it would all have been different.

We'll never know what Morton's true state of mind was when he took that last cruise. But we have to give some weight to Lockwood and Beach's statements.

[BigWalleye]

Amen to all that.

[merc4ulfate]

I read the declassified Transcript of the incident with the train on another post here on the forums. good god I couldn't stop laughing at Lt. Walker and his double face plant against the ditch of horrors LOL

Such a cool story:|\\

[merc4ulfate]

@ Rockin robbin

"He just considered himself and his boat expendable in the prosecution of the war."

Funny thing about a fight ... once you say to yourself ... I'm dead already ... it's much easier to stand up with bullets flying and piss on their heads.

[merc4ulfate]

Lt Walker has me rolling on the floor laughing. Two face plants in two different ditches on the same path ... god that was funny. Should have sent the cook first.