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View Full Version : How to pass a target at a specified range from it


sublynx
08-03-12, 01:04 PM
Underneath I describe a method that helps you estimate the quickest course that let's you pass a ship or convoy in a way that keeps you outside its detection range (whether detection range by sight or by radar). I write this at a computer with no SH3 so I'll show how it's done on Google Sketchup. You should be able to do this perfectly with SH3 navigation tools as well.

The example situation: you have stalked a convoy and plotted its course and speed as 295 true bearing, 7 knots. The convoy is now at a relative bearing of 87 degrees, range 10 kilometers. The fastest speed you can make in the prevailing winds and not wanting to risk engine failure is 15 knots. You want to pass the convoy keeping a range of 8 kilometers, thinking that at that kind of range they will not see you, but you can see them. This is how you determine your course:

http://i.imgur.com/TAnNJ.jpg
1. With the protractor, draw an angle of 87 degrees (representing the convoys relative bearing).

http://i.imgur.com/zTODg.jpg
2. Draw a line with a length of 10 (the units you use are not important, they may be meters or kilometres, or centimetres or miles, but you have to keep using the same unit). The line represents the distance from your U-boat to the target.

http://i.imgur.com/kZRan.jpg
3. From the end of the line you drew, draw another line using the protractor tool and the line tool. Angle 295, length 7 units, representing the convoy's course and speed. If you want to, you can erase the lines the protractor left to make the picture clearer.

http://i.imgur.com/2ttPM.jpg
4. Draw two circles around the starting point of the target ship's course/speed line. The other circle should have a radius of 8, representing the safety distance you want to keep to the convoy. The other circle should have a radius of 15, representing the speed you want to use while passing the convoy quickly but safely.

http://i.imgur.com/pM2w8.jpg
5. From the middle of the circle representing your ship draw a tangent touching the circle with the 8 kilometer radius. A tangent is simply a line that "just touches" the circle, a line that is closer to the circle than any other line could be. It doesn't have to be pinpoint accurate, just a close-by is quite enough.

http://i.imgur.com/3DxPW.jpg
6. Copy the tangent line you just drew. You can use the protractor to measure the angle or more simply just use the select tool and copy the line to the clipboard. Then paste it to the end of the line representing the course and speed of the convoy. Continue the line until it breaks the circle representing the 15 knot intercept speed we're using in this example.


http://i.imgur.com/5Imb4.jpg
7. The last thing to do is to draw a line from the starting point of the line representing the convoy's speed and course to the point where the copy-pasted line cuts the circle representing the 15 knot speed you are going to use. Measure the angle you got with the protractor.

I got about 27,5. That's the true bearing you should now use with the speed of 15 knots. Keeping that speed and course you should end up nicely just in front of the convoy, just outside the safety range of 8 kilometres that was used here.

There are slight variations in the results, depending on how accurately one has drawn the tangent, but it should be close enough. I have had error percentages of about 1 - 5 % in my paper calculations. I have had no time or opportunity to try these in the game, but if my calculations were correct, the method should bring results accurate enough. Keep in mind though, that the method is also affected by the accuracy of your initial target course and speed estimations and any zigzagging or wind speed changes during the passing of the target. Time compression also affects the speed you can keep, so if you use TC, check the speed gauge.

(Another thing to keep in mind: if you use SH3's in-game tools, remember that the method described here uses relative speeds and relative distances. I recommend drawing the picture somewhere else than the location of your U-boat. Otherwise you might mix up the lines and circles drawn here to the lines and circles that you have drawn to measure actual distances.)

More info on the method and similar ones can be found from a US Navy maneuvering board manual from 1941: http://archive.org/details/maneuveringboard00unit The method used in this thread is part of case VI, page 12.

Do keep in mind that I don't understand much about mathematics: I might have misunderstood the method. So if you try this, try it in a safe situation. If there are any questions on the mathematics or trigonometry behind this method, don't expect any answers: at least from me :88)

http://i.imgur.com/jPsjO.jpg
Here's one more thing that one might be able to do with Sketchup. It is possible to copy a maneuvering board in the background and keep using Sketchup. You can change the size of the background maneuvering board to match measurements and rings in the maneuvering board. One could for example draw a line representing 8 knots with the line tool's measuring function to a length of 8 meters. That length could also be made to match the maneuvering board's rings, for example a line of 8 units could be made to correspond with 4 rings.

There are however some quirks in using the maneuvering board background, for example the dark area in the screenshot that I don't know how to get rid off or even if it is possible to get rid of it.

Troublous_Haze
08-03-12, 01:17 PM
Interesting.. but is it worth trying ? Is this tool made for passing the convoy at closest safe distance or I got the wrong assumption ?

Side escorts often brakes off to sweep area around further away from convoy, so u-boat's stealth is somewhat put at risk in this case and if I understood you correctly.

sublynx
08-03-12, 01:28 PM
Yup. You understood correctly the purpose of the method and yes you are right: any side sweeps by the escorts need to be taken into consideration. If they make them the safety distance needs to so big that the sweeps don't matter.

Pisces
08-04-12, 06:15 AM
Your method seems good from a math/vector analysis point of view. Except for one thing I don't really understand. In step 2 you say to make the distance line 14km (or whatever unit), but the range to the target/convoy was stated to be 10 km. What's up with the extra 4 km? Is it the size of the convoy that you took into account (without telling)?

If you for some reason decided to double the convoy speed (7kts becomes 14km) then it wouldn't make sense.

Also, a tip for those that want to draw this on the game map. To copy that tangent line: make a large circle with the radius arrow overlaying the tangent line. (large enough to extend beyond the ownship speed circle) Now grab the center of the circle and drag it to the end of the target course/speed line. Now the circle radius is the (light) blue tangent line.

sublynx
08-04-12, 07:02 AM
Your method seems good from a math/vector analysis point of view. Except for one thing I don't really understand. In step 2 you say to make the distance line 14km (or whatever unit), but the range to the target/convoy was stated to be 10 km. What's up with the extra 4 km?

Goddamn my carelessness ... It's a typo. Of course it should be then 10. I'll edit the post so, that it's correct. Thanks for being vigilant and both noticing the mistake and caring enough to point it out :up:

LemonA
02-11-13, 08:54 PM
The example situation: you have stalked a convoy and plotted its course and speed as 295 true bearing, 7 knots. The convoy is now at a relative bearing of 87 degrees, range 10 kilometers. The fastest speed you can make in the prevailing winds and not wanting to risk engine failure is 15 knots. You want to pass the convoy keeping a range of 8 kilometers, thinking that at that kind of range they will not see you, but you can see them.
...

I got about 27,5.


That's wrong.
Your helmsman must change the course to 006.5° true (exactly 006.41°).

Dont mix up miles and km in a scetch. 7nm are not 7km etc.

Blue: you, red: enemy. M, eG = initial position. M_1, g = position after 1 hour. Dotted red = 8km safety distance.
http://img.xrmb2.net/images/796835.jpeg

Pisces
02-12-13, 12:42 PM
LemonA, you are right. 6.something degree is what it should be if you redraw the first images based on the figures provided. The uboat position (range 10 km) is in the wrong spot if you compare it to the 8 km safe distance circle. Wether it is a nm vs km thing, I don't know. But the scale comes close to 1.852.

What I also failed to notice back then is that he started with drawing a bearing line to 87 degrees (clockwise from up). He stated this as being a relative bearing. Later he plotted the target speed vector with a 295 course direction. But this is "true". So his images assume the uboat/sub is on a heading North/0 degrees when taking the target bearing. Since it usually is not, he really should have said to plot the target at whatever "true bearing" you have (= relative bearing + uboat ship course .... give or take 360 degrees)

guntherprien
02-12-13, 01:52 PM
What if the convoy zigs?

sublynx
02-12-13, 02:48 PM
Thanks again for vigilance and effort LemonA and Pisces. However you got me confused now - is the method really workable at all or is it all wrong? :timeout:

If you have the time it would be great if you posted a step by step on the method to make it clear how this should be done :know:

And guntherprien if the convoy zigs one needs to follow the convoy for some time to make an estimation on what the real direction is. If the enemy does not have radar it might be easier to just stalk the convoy in a way that the closest ships are just visible.

Pisces
02-12-13, 06:08 PM
Thanks again for vigilance and effort LemonA and Pisces. However you got me confused now - is the method really workable at all or is it all wrong? :timeout:



If you have the time it would be great if you posted a step by step on the method to make it clear how this should be done :know:The steps you did right. Just the plot of the target from you started you on the wrong path. ;)

1: Know relative bearing given in game/periscope.

2: Add own course to it.

3: If the sum is higher than 360, then subtract 360. Use the result to plot the direction of target range on the drawing.

4: Plot the position of the target, along that true bearing line, with a scale of 1cm/inch for every 1 km. (in game 1km to 1km) Draw this with a color only for distances.

5: Draw a circle for the safe distance, 1cm/inch for every km aswel. Distance color aswel.

6: Draw a line (intended relative motion) from own position tangent (touching) to the safety circle. It's only a direction, so color whatever.

7: Draw the target speed and course (doesn't even have to be from the actual position, anywhere will do) Scale 1 cm/inch for every knot. Best is doing it in a different color only for speeds.

8: Draw own max speed circle on the beginning of target speed and course vector/line. Give it the speed color.

9: Copy direction of tangent line, onto the end of the target speed and course vector. Extend it's length to outside of own max speed. Draw it with the speed color.

10: Draw/measure direction from circle centers to intersection of own max speed with copied extended tangent line. You can color it as a speed also. It's going to be your speed and course.


And guntherprien if the convoy zigs one needs to follow the convoy for some time to make an estimation on what the real direction is. If the enemy does not have radar it might be easier to just stalk the convoy in a way that the closest ships are just visible.Correct, new target course and/or speed means re-doing the drawing. And convoy course changes are a chaotic event, with ships going all over the place. So you best be on your toes when it happens. The whole convoy is going to rotate it's positions to suit the new course. So be aware of the corner positions.

sublynx
02-13-13, 12:15 PM
Thanks Pisces :up:

I'm glad we have a forum like this with all this knowledge from geometry to naval history :subsim: