Florida man kills door-to-door salesman: I’ll kill anybody that steps on my property"

[mookiemookie]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/26/florida-man-kills-door-to-door-salesman-i%E2%80%99ll-kill-anybody-that-steps-on-my-property/

A co-worker who witnessed the shooting said Rainey had knocked on Roop***8217;s door, but received no answer. While Rainey was walking down the drive-way, Roop pulled up in his pickup truck and asked why Rainey was at his house. Rainey explained that he was selling steak and seafood. The witness said Roop then pulled out a black handgun and shot Rainey. As Rainey lay on the ground, Roop fired another bullet into the back of his head.

:nope: What is wrong with people? Good god....

And the money quote...

Roop later told police that he shot Rainey in the head ***8220;for effect***8221; and that he had three no trespassing signs on his property. Roop said he feared for his life.

***8220;I***8217;m not going to give him the chance to do something to me,***8221; he told police. ***8220;I was in fear.***8221;

Yeah, I bet.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Unbelievable... :nope:

[Herr_Pete]

Making guns illegal is starting to sound pretty darn good isn't it.

[Skybird]

I cannot help it, but that thread headline caught me by surprise and I burst in laughter. "I kill anybody that steps on my property, hoah!"

[Skybird]

Making guns illegal is starting to sound pretty darn good isn't it.
And knifes. In my case, do not forget the bow, and the swords.

Damn, even a pencil can be a weapon.

Let'S face it, there is no remedy to nuttiness. As long as nuttiness cannot be extracted out of the head, sh!t will continue to happen.

For example that armed robber on your doorstep, first ringing, and then introducing you to the pointed end of his gun (probably an illegal one).

[Tchocky]

If the salesman was also armed this would never have happened.

[Oberon]

Personally I think they should arm everyone in America with M-29 Davy Crocketts and then ban MOPP suits from being manufactured in the country. See how weapon crime progresses then...

[Morts]

Making guns illegal is starting to sound pretty darn good isn't it.
Not really

[u crank]

It's very sad and probably for Rainey very bad luck, but this guy was going to kill someone eventually. Just a matter of time. :nope:

[em2nought]

Damn anti-gun manchurian candidates. :D

[breadcatcher101]

Probably about 75 million Americans own guns.

Yeah, let's ban them because of one incident.

[Oberon]

Probably about 75 million Americans own guns.

Yeah, let's ban them because of one incident.

Last data I saw had 257 incidents per day, 81 of them fatal. Some are murders, some are suicides and some are accidents.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people...but the guns certainly do help.

[MH]

USA is very high in gun violence statistics.
If guns don't kill people then there are too many nutcases with access to guns.

[mapuc]

I hope that one or another prosecutor will take this matter to court.
For me it is no doubt that it is overkill. He has abused the right to defend him self.
His life was NEVER in danger. The correct way to do it, would be to make a civilian arrest.

Another important question which I do not want to ask, because I know that you should never criticize another country's domestic problems

Well I do it anyway

What is wrong with the American mentality?
There are other countries like Canada, where the number of arms per inhabitants is higher than in the U.S., but where the number of the killings and other incidents is much lower, even when you look to the number of inhabitants.

So it must be the American mentality or something else

Markus

[Oberon]

It's high, yes, but when you compare it on a per capita basis, then it's not that high. In terms of overall gun crime though America is...fourth, I think, behind South Africa, Colombia and Thailand.

It'll never change though, you try and bring in any form of gun control law and the whole country will riot.

[u crank]

Even the slightest hint of tougher gun control starts this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/25/gun-sales-colorado.html


There are other countries like Canada, where the number of arms per inhabitants is higher than in the U.S., but where the number of the killings and other incidents is much lower, even when you look to the number of inhabitants.
Markus

We have our moments as well I'm afraid. Four killed, twenty three wounded in separate instances in one week in Toronto. Mostly gang related.

I don't see gun control as the answer. Giving a person a permit to carry a gun does not control how he uses it. Refusal of permit simply means getting an illegal gun. There seems to be no solution.

[Blood_splat]

http://theprivateman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/tumblr_m4xcxecbbp1qabe6do1_400.gif

[mapuc]

Even the slightest hint of tougher gun control starts this.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/25/gun-sales-colorado.html



We have our moments as well I'm afraid. Four killed, twenty three wounded in separate instances in one week in Toronto. Mostly gang related.

I don't see gun control as the answer. Giving a person a permit to carry a gun does not control how he uses it. Refusal of permit simply means getting an illegal gun. There seems to be no solution.


Same here in Denmark. A couple a days ago a mand shoot his wife and their little girl and thereafter he killed himself. So yes we do also have our gunproblems mostly though it's gang related.

I maintain, however, my wish that a Public Prosecutors would take action against this man. He has exceeded its right to defend his life and his "castle"

Markus

[Armistead]

You could never ban guns, just insure that only criminals would have them.
States with gun bans have the highest gun murder ratewith guns. Even if you did a house to house search to get rid of guns, most legal people would hide them and criminals would still get them at ease.

[Buddahaid]

The guy is crazy and in no way standing his ground. Even if he could have made that argument the second shot makes it murder.

Sensible gun control laws only work for sensible people. I just read today that a homeless man living in a car and of questionable metal condition, had police confiscate a shotgun from his car two weeks ago. He was just relieved of another shotgun in his car! I seriously doubt that gun was obtained through legal channels but let's pile on more ineffective wishful thinking laws that will have no effect on curbing gun violence.

People argue that there is no need for anyone to own a military style firearm. True enough but there is also no need to own a high powered car because commuters just need to get from point A to point B. How many people die from irresponsible drivers of fast cars each year? One could drive a car onto crowded sidewalks and make mayhem so shouldn't there be background checks and ten day waiting periods for car ownership?

No amount of laws will rid this country of firearms unless we become a totalitarian state which would be far worse than the sad misuses of our rights we live with now.

I will now step off my soap box. :O:

[u crank]

I maintain, however, my wish that a Public Prosecutors would take action against this man. He has exceeded its right to defend his life and his "castle"
Markus

Let's hope that it happens.:up:

[Ducimus]

From the first word of the thread title, you just know it's going to be something monumentally stupid. "Floriduh's" stupidity strikes again.

Another blatant abuse of what i call "that stupid stand your ground law". It's not guns in this case, its that idiotic law. It was designed with good intentions, but its exploitable beyond all belief. That's why this foriduh idiot was immediately saying, "i was in fear". BS, your just trying to invoke that stupid retarded law.

[CaptainHaplo]

Comparing legal gun ownership and gun crime in the US is comparing apples to oranges and is a tactic often used by gun control proponents. The majority of gun crimes are committed with illegally acquired firearms.

If you look at the number of gun crimes committed by people who legally own the firearms used compared to the total number of gun crimes, guess what. It is NOT the legal gun owner that presents much danger.

Does the occasional knucklehead exist? Sure. But if gun ownership and carry was ENCOURAGED, the occasional crazy would have a self-preservation interest to keep from going of "half cocked". The tragedy in Colorado is a perfect example - 12 dead and 58 injured. Had even 2 or 3 people been armed in theatre 9, it would still be a tragedy - but you might have had 3 victims dead and one perpetrator pushing up daises. It would still have been a tragedy, but not nearly so bad of one.

If you don't think self preservation is a strong motivator for even crazies, remember that the accused shooter in Colorado invested in and wore a protective vest......

[mookiemookie]

The tragedy in Colorado is a perfect example - 12 dead and 58 injured. Had even 2 or 3 people been armed in theatre 9, it would still be a tragedy - but you might have had 3 victims dead and one perpetrator pushing up daises. It would still have been a tragedy, but not nearly so bad of one.

If everyone in that dark, panicked and smoke/gas filled theatre had a gun and started shooting, I think it would have turned out much worse than it did.

[NeonSamurai]

If everyone in that dark, panicked and smoke/gas filled theatre had a gun and started shooting, I think it would have turned out much worse than it did.

No kidding, a bunch of panicked people with guns in a low visibility situation not knowing who is the bad guy is? I see that going real well.

Also last I checked the vast majority of guns on the street came from legal sources, like purchased from gun fairs in states where the laws are not so strict, then resold in other states. These guns are not being smuggled in across the border...

[CaptainMattJ.]

Wella ban on guns wouldnt help, even though wed like to think it does, putting a ban on the sale of 100 round magazines might be something to consider. No one, NO ONE needs 100 rounds in any kind of civilian setting. For Anything. On the gun range, out hunting,for personal defense, nothing requires 100 rounds. Yet its perfectly legal. in fact, its legal to buy just about any weapon you please. grenade launchers, miniguns, flamethrowers,grenades. You can even get 40mm bofors if you have some serious paperwork, as a CIVILIAN. Who in gods name needs a 40mm Bofor for personal civilian use. that gun could potentially be hauled to a location to strafe something like a school yet its still legally possible to obtain one. A pistol, shotgun, or rifle is on thing. an anti aircraft weapon that can fling 40mm high velocity rounds at serious range, is another.

[August]

Let's hope that it happens.:up:

Doesn't anyone read these articles? It said he has already been arrested and charged with murder.

[mapuc]

A ban or a strict regulation is not the way-many of you are saying

But do you have an another solution to the problems?

Markus

[August]

A ban or a strict regulation is not the way-many of you are saying

But do you have an another solution to the problems?

Markus

What problem? Crazy people or door to door salesmen who ignore no trespassing signs?

[Gargamel]

If everyone in that dark, panicked and smoke/gas filled theatre had a gun and started shooting, I think it would have turned out much worse than it did.

That's why he said 2-3 people. Thats a good percentage to help prevent that type of event.

These crazies usually have some sort of exit strategy, which usually involves getting out of there before the cops get there.

But if they know that about 5%-10% are carryIng, and will return fire, then they may not even plan these things.

[Skybird]

Over the years, I read too many contradictory statistics as if I would be willng to see a causal, linear link anymore like "more guns, more liberal gun laws = less crime/more crime", or "less guns, tighter laws = more/less crime". For each such statement, there is a coutnerexample in statistics on nations.

There seem to be a link between two different things, though. There seesm to be a link between what i could not describe any better or different than a cultural or attitude thing towards both weapons and violence - may it be the use of violent means by law enforcement or court penalties, may it be the violence of crime. There are places that have tougher and places that have more lenient gun laws than the US, but for both cases you fiond nations with more and with less crime taking place.

The one characteristic that I see as consistently sticking to US culture, is the fetish for violence: the fascination (military, media, games, films), the fear of it, the acceptance of what in Eurppe is soncosdered munaccpetable topugh court sentences (boot camps, death penalty), the porpagating on behalf of the latter, the violence of anti-abortion protests and the attitude of extremist anti-atheist movements. You cannot escape to claim that in one sens eor the other, the American soceity saeems to be the most violent society of all Western nations, and quite some non-Western nations as well.

That is not meant as US-bashing, but is meant as a sober description like leather trousers belong to Bavaria.

That's why the underlying problem of excesses like this in the US cannot be solved by legislation. It is a cultural problem, an attitude problem, a mentality problem. And this can only be tackled by - education and social developement to redcue the need of street crime. A man who has a perspective in live and can make a living by fair means, has much less incentives to turn into a street robber, than saopmebody who grew up in streets gangs, has no future, and fights to make a monthly living.

The occasional suicide or family drama or crime commited by guns you can never prevent , and to change legislation completely because something happened again, is not needed and does little. Whenever somethjing happens in germany, the public outcry immediately becomes almost hysteric, and everybody yells for tougher laws. But we already havew the toughest laws in Europo, they have been tightened repeatedly in the past 20 years.

The best safety for a gun is - the owner's well-controlled temper, and a good social and education standard.

I see no need currently to - illegally now - get a gun in Germany (to get one legally is a parcours designed to discourage all but the most determined guys now, and you must constantly file the memebership and regular excercising in a passport. If you fail to officially join 18 shooting sessions per year in a registered sports club, you lose your license). - But if I were to move into the US, I would get one.

However, I think that the legal market should only offer hunti ng rifles for hunting and small arms like poiostols and revolvers. Any military, semi-miulitary guns or rifles or automatic or semiautomatic may be nice to wage street war - but that hardly is what protecting your home and your family is about. Else there is no reason why missiles, grenades, mines and cannons shouldn't be owned by private "collectors" as well.

Let'S keep it in perspective. If you think you could face a trigger happy gang with machine guns any time soon, you better move out of the place where you stay, instead of starting an arms race that turns you into a paranoid.

[mapuc]

What problem? Crazy people or door to door salesmen who ignore no trespassing signs?


Well those door to door salemen can sometime be a real pain in the ....

thought more about all the "incidents" which have occurred recently
The killing of a young person by a kind of guard
The killing of 12 people in a cinema
The killing of a salesman
And no doubt many more incidents that have not been shown in the major newspapers.
As I see it, it will be lot of these type of killings of innocent Americans, if nothing is being done about it.

That's why I ask

Do you have a solution, 'cause you have to do something about it.

Markus

[MH]

- But if I were to move into the US, I would get one

Lets hope not...

[August]

Well those door to door salemen can sometime be a real pain in the ....

thought more about all the "incidents" which have occurred recently
The killing of a young person by a kind of guard
The killing of 12 people in a cinema
The killing of a salesman
And no doubt many more incidents that have not been shown in the major newspapers.
As I see it, it will be lot of these type of killings of innocent Americans, if nothing is being done about it.

That's why I ask

Do you have a solution, 'cause you have to do something about it.

Markus

In every one of those cases there has been an arrest and there will be a trial and if the accused is found guilty some sort of sentence so it's hardly a case of nothing being done about it.

But human nature is human nature. These things have been occurred in every human society throughout history. You're not going to "do something" about that. The best you can do is be prepared to defend yourself if it happens to you.

[mapuc]

Let's hope that it happens.:up:

it seem so, according to the article he is being charged with second-degree murder.

Markus

[CaptainHaplo]

If everyone in that dark, panicked and smoke/gas filled theatre had a gun and started shooting, I think it would have turned out much worse than it did.

2 or 3 people are not everyone. If EVERYONE in that theater had been armed - or even had the perp THOUGHT that a high percentage of people were armed, the tragedy would never have occured.

Or do you think he bought and wore ballistic protection for no reason?

[les green01]

for the ones you says ban guns and any other weapons first of all you can kill someone with just two fingers what you going do take my fingers away but as a gun owner there a responsiblty that i have,the guy in florida was wrong to act that way and should get a long time in prison,its not the gun that kills it is the person a bullit dont have a brain its going go where it is aim

[Rockstar]

Dont forget we need to regulate baseball bats too.

Video: http://www.news9.com/global/category.asp?C=116601&topVideoCatNo=188830&autostart=true&clipid=7540482

Article: ... I loved the sound of the tiny little 'ping' followed by the sudden EEEEYAAAHHH! The best part, though, was when the 'alleged' burglar woke up and this exchange took place:


Caution vulgar language in video and article.

Im sorry, but when I hear that 'PING' from what must have been a Louisville Slugger TPX Omaha BBCOR making contact with on the perps head I laughed too.

[nikimcbee]

So do the jehovah's Nitwits still knock on his door?:haha:

[Ducimus]

Several posts on gun control, but not one on the actual issue that i saw:

Let's go over this again, form the article:

A co-worker who witnessed the shooting said Rainey had knocked on Roop;s door, but received no answer. While Rainey was walking down the drive-way, Roop pulled up in his pickup truck and asked why Rainey was at his house. Rainey explained that he was selling steak and seafood. The witness said Roop then pulled out a black handgun and shot Rainey. As Rainey lay on the ground, Roop fired another bullet into the back of his head.

Roop later told police that he shot Rainey in the head "for effect" and that he had three no trespassing signs on his property. Roop said he feared for his life.

"I'm not going to give him the chance to do something to me," he told police. "I was in fear.";

Important parts emphasized. Now, examine the prelude to the situation. pulled up in his pickup, asked what the guy was doing at his house, and THEN fired. He drove up to the guy in his pickup. This wasn't a breakin, the salesman didn't approach him with, or brandished a weapon, made no menacing gestures, no action that i can see was inciting fear. Yet this florduh man is saying he was fearful. Why?

Stand-your-ground law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law)

In case you can't be bothered to read any information on that, ill quote the important part:

Controversy

Stand-your-ground laws are frequently criticized and called "shoot first" laws by critics, including the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.[41] In Florida, the law has resulted in self-defense claims tripling.[42][41] The law's critics argue that Florida's law makes it very difficult to prosecute cases against people who shoot others and then claim self-defense. The shooter can argue they felt threatened, and in most cases, the only witness who could have argued otherwise is the victim who was shot and killed.[41] Before passage of the law, Miami police chief John F. Timoney called the law unnecessary and dangerous in that "[w]hether it's trick-or-treaters or kids playing in the yard of someone who doesn't want them there or some drunk guy stumbling into the wrong house, you're encouraging people to possibly use deadly physical force where it shouldn't be used."[43][44]

In Florida, a task force examining the law has concluded that the law is "confusing."[45] Those testifying to the task force include Buddy Jacobs, a lawyer representing the Florida Prosecuting Attorney's Association. Jacobs recommended the law's repeal, feeling that modifying the law would not fix its problems. Florida governor Rick Scott plans his own investigation into the law.[45]

The Trayvon Martin case brought a large degree of criticism to the law. Legal experts are split as to whether charges will be dropped under Florida's stand-your-ground law before the case even goes to trial, as the extant Florida law allows the shooter, George Zimmerman, to argue that the charges should be dropped before trial even begins. Legal experts are also split as to whether Zimmerman's actions will be viewed as self-defense, should the case go to trial.[41]


Again, gun control is not the issue here. It's this stupid law.