View Full Version : Islamist call to destroy Egypts Pyramids
Bet you didn't see that come-ing, maybe the UN ought to step in, oh wait they're to busy this month trying to disarm us.http://www.raymondibrahim.com/11973/calls-to-destroy-egypt-great-pyramids-begin
TLAM Strike
07-10-12, 08:27 PM
Something has to be done, we can't allow the terrorists to get their hands on the alien spaceships buried underneath the Pyramids... :shifty:
Sailor Steve
07-10-12, 08:30 PM
"Come-ing"? "Their"?
No wonder nobody takes you seriously.
"Come-ing"? "Their"?
No wonder nobody takes you seriously.
well thanks for the spell check, and like I said before and time again, I don't care if any body takes me seriously but, if it bothers you then I'm tickled pink. It seems to me the truth bothers you. so i made an error in type -ing, alot is lost between the brain and the keyboard sssssooooo eexxxuuusssseee mmmmmeeeeeeeee, apperantly some one takes me seriously someone had to close my last thread SSSssoo is the UN poised to take our guns??????? If you care to explain that I'm all ears, and if your sentence starts with a bunch of i's and wells and alot of liberal buzz words, then you can just save it.
Madox58
07-10-12, 08:38 PM
Yea, I can see a War over that!
:haha:
Hell, I'd go fight anyone wanting to destroy them.
I've been there and aside form insanity?
There's no reason to destroy them.
Oh! Wait!
:o
I just called the nut-sacks crazy!!
:timeout:
Does that mean there will be a jihad-thingy called on me?
:06:
Freaking nut-sacks!
:nope:
Takeda Shingen
07-10-12, 08:46 PM
Huh. You linked a blog written by a 'Shillman Fellow' at the David Horowitz Freedom Center, which hasn't existed since 2006. He then goes on to link a pro-Christian forum in Arabic (twice) and a March 2010 blog written on Jihad Watch as evidence for his claims. Seems solid; color me sold.
EDIT: Here's some readup on the blogger before we get too hysterical. Seems he has an axe to grind and has had no problems about misleading people in order to grind it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Ibrahim
EDIT 2: Here's another opinion piece from the Washington Times [beware of pop-ups]:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/10/editorial-islamist-pyramid-scheme/
The part that cracks me up is the last sentence:
If the radicals ever are allowed the chance of fulfilling their ultimate dreams, Mt. Rushmore won't be far behind.
BE AFRIAD. VOTE FOR CANDIDATE X. I love election year. It's like every day's a full moon.
I don't care if any body takes me seriously...
Then what is the purpose of posting on a forum? If you can't use the language correctly, people will ignore whatever points you're trying to communicate. You could save yourself some trouble and not bother posting them.
Sailor Steve
07-10-12, 09:39 PM
It seems to me the truth bothers you.
The truth doesn't bother me at all. As I've told your slightly-better-educated counterpart, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. I agree with you on a few things, but you manage to make conservatives look bad, if not downright foolish.
so i made an error in type -ing, alot is lost between the brain and the keyboard sssssooooo eexxxuuusssseee mmmmmeeeeeeeee, apperantly some one takes me seriously someone had to close my last thread
Your thread didn't get closed because you told "the truth". Your thread got closed because rather than discuss the issue rationally you instead chose to spam the forum with a huge number of pointless pictures, repeating several of them and basically branding yourself as a troll, going for a reaction rather than a conversation. That sort of thing is definitely against forum policy and you're lucky the consequences weren't worse.
SSSssoo is the UN poised to take our guns??????? If you care to explain that I'm all ears, and if your sentence starts with a bunch of i's and wells and alot of liberal buzz words, then you can just save it.
If you had bothered to read the document you would already know that the answer to that question is "No". You have already been shown the explanations but you keep choosing to ignore them in your quest to push your agenda.
"Liberal buzz words?" I'm not liberal. As I've said, I won't let anyone take my guns either. I agree with you to a point, but I have to fight you because you manage to make us all look like uneducated dolts.
the_tyrant
07-10-12, 10:00 PM
Destroying the pyramids = destroying the economy of egypt
Come on, I doubt they would do it
Herr_Pete
07-10-12, 10:30 PM
I don't comment on these type of threads usually, I tend to sit back and watch you guys argue and create a 20 page thread but I really wouldn't be surprised if these morons did destroy the pyramids. They are happy to destroy Islamic shrines in Timbuktu so I don't see why they wouldn't.
nikimcbee
07-11-12, 12:16 AM
Destroying the pyramids = destroying the economy of egypt
Come on, I doubt they would do it
I don't think money is their top priority. They're all about making god happy.:-? I could ask my Egyptian co-worker what he thinks, but I avoid these subjects at work, mainly because he gets pretty worked up over this stuff.
Tribesman
07-11-12, 02:46 AM
In before Skybird:rotfl2:
Stupid Muslims!!:/\\!!
You seem to have a typo in there, the word "story" came out as "Muslims!!"
Our reptilian overlords will never let the pyramids to be destroyed.
"According to several reports in the Arabic media" so where are his links to these reports?
Proposed destruction of the pyramids is pretty big news, so where is the Reuters artical?
Maybe its because Mr nut job's artical that is based on rumors is not actually a news headline?
The problem with the hysterical chimps who write this stuff is that they will belive any old garbage that justifies their reason for hating someone or something, all it takes is for a a handful of retarded islamic radicals to suggest something controversial, and before you know it - it becomes "THE MUSLIMS" as if all 2 billion of them are conspiring together (because as we know, they all get on so well with each other dont they? :dead:)
Anyway perhaps I should start posting rumours and passing them off as news too? What if I told you that FEMA is coming stick you in a camp where they will force you to eat tooth paste, and then link you to an artical on infowars? would you neglect to question the credibility of that too? ....I doubt it.
Skybird
07-11-12, 03:54 AM
It is a fact that Islam tries to reqwrite history by foreging it and by ignoring and even denying it as far as it was set before the time of Muhammad. That compares to the Creationists branch that seriuousl think the world was created just 6000 years ago and all fossiles found before where just placed there 6000 years ago by God, for whatever his reason was to do so.
It is also a known historic fact that monuments, and artifacts of foreign. non Muslim culture get drestroyed by Islkam rulers since always and up until today. The latest such act was the act done in Tiumbuktu just three weeks ago or so. Another famous act was the demoiltion of the giant Buddha statues in Afghanistan. But alreadxy at the time of the second Caliph theyx alraeyd were destzroying buildings and temples and mopnuments of other cultures when they did not fit into their Muslim view of history.
The call to destroy the pyramides is not new, and in fact it was tried. However, in recent decades, when Egypt may habe been a dictatorship, but at least was not fundamentalist, it was prevented by the govenrments since it is a tourist attraction and thus a cash collector. Until here the military still tries to guard a damn from the fundamentalist tide. If they fail in that, everything is possible. The mindset certainly is insane enough to want to destroy the pyramides.
I have not read the linked article, just the headline to see what it was about. It's no new stuff to me. So for this post do not hold that writer responsible, but me. :smug:
Destroying pyramids is old news...some crazy salafists there.
The problem with the hysterical chimps who write this stuff is that they will belive any old garbage that justifies their reason for hating someone or something, all it takes is for a a handful of retarded islamic radicals to suggest something controversial, and before you know it - it becomes "THE MUSLIMS" as if all 2 billion of them are conspiring together (because as we know, they all get on so well with each other dont they? :dead:)
Those things are already happening in some other less important Muslim countries.
Does it fuel hate or fear?It surly does by it doesn't mean that things are not happening...
You can try to dismiss them and keep on loving everyone.. do you ?lol...thats option too.
You can try to dismiss them and keep on loving everyone.. do you ?lol...thats option too.
Your are implying that im either a christian or a liberal hippy by the sounds of it.
Anyway I'll choose to love or hate someone based on their own actions, not by the actions of those i can associate with them.
There are two types of people on this planet, nice ones and A-holes. Relegion or there lack of, seems to make very little difference as to which one they are.
Islam doesn't really teach people to blow stuff up and commit murder any more than Christianity, Communism or Neo Conservatism does. Yet they've all done it in the name of whatever they see as justice.
I guess its much easier to point the finger than it is look in the mirror once in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6RbnNZivqo
These guys are A-holes, what was the justification for peppering a minaret exactly, are all American Soliders A-holes? of course they are not!
Im just saying, its not just 'Islam' that does these things.
Skybird
07-11-12, 05:16 AM
I guess its much easier to point the finger than it is look in the mirror once in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6RbnNZivqo
These guys are A-holes, are all American Soliders A-holes? of course they are not!
Two questions. Was there a military reason why they did that? Islamic fighter sare known to hide within mosques to evade enemy fire or to prevent destruction of ammo stocks.
Second, what makes a deciding difference is whether or not the ideology of the actor (the US military, Islam) are supporting acts of vandalism for the mere sake of vandalism, or not. Islam not only supports but I would say demands the derstrtuction of other cultural artifacts that are not to be tolerated beside the only god there is, Allah. The ideology thus is the problem, not just a group of monkeys acting isolated.
Your are implying that im either a christian or a liberal hippy by the sounds of it.
Anyway I'll choose to love or hate someone based on their own actions,
There are two types of people on this planet, nice ones and A-holes. Relegion or there lack of, seems to make very little difference as to which one they are.
Islam doesn't really teach people to blow stuff up and commit murder any more than Christianity, Communism or Neo Conservatism does. Yet they've all done it in the name whatever they see as justice.
I guess its much easier to point the finger than it is look in the mirror once in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6RbnNZivqo
I agree with you never less Islam is very convenient ideology to be used for violence combined with some average backwardness of Muslims.
What christians,communists or nazis did in the past is inexcusable but now the deal is about what Muslims do in the present in the name of religion.
It is issue in present time....
Any way just because some nutcases did some crazy stuff in Europe does not make it all tolerable.
If you compere Islam to communism yourself then you probably can spot the problems by yourself...not asking you to hate every Muslim you see though.
..........
Two questions. Was there a military reason why they did that? Islamic fighter sare known to hide within mosques to evade enemy fire or to prevent destruction of ammo stocks.
Second, what makes a deciding difference is whether or not the ideology of the actor (the US military, Islam) are supporting acts of vandalism for the mere sake of vandalism, or not. Islam not only supports but I would say demands the derstrtuction of other cultural artifacts that are not to be tolerated beside the only god there is, Allah. The ideology thus is the problem, not just a group of monkeys acting isolated.
1) Are you going to tell me there 'could be' justifable miltary reasons for ever single isolated attrocity carried out by our side in Iraq? The torture, the rapes and god know what else? In that country we invaded against our own international laws because they had invisible WMDs? Of course the majority of Our Troops were not doing these things, may well have done so based on an ideology that muslims are bad. there may not be a holy book ont hat but its still an ideology.
2) Problem with the Islamic ideology (much like all the major relegions) is that its written in such a way that is wide open to mis-interpretation and bad translation.
The Islamic Ideology you like to present is simply 'your' interpretation of it (nothing wrong with that mind you)
but heres my question, why should I trust at face value, an interpretation of Islam from someone that I know has very low opinion of Islam? If i want to learn about cars, I dont go and ask Green Peace do I?
For all I know you might just be picking out the parts that support your distain, and leave out the parts that dont, (like a 9/11 truther) Im not saying you ARE doing this - just that its pretty typical of human behaviour, thats all.
You might tell me I should look at some of the evil acts carried out by muslims, (and I freely admit that there are plenty of them too) The problem is, that they are perfectly proportional to evil acts perpitrated by non-muslims.
So therefore, the only problems I have with muslims, is the same problem I have with the rest of mankind. I see nothing that makes them particularly more monsterous than anyone else.
I guess its much easier to point the finger than it is look in the mirror once in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6RbnNZivqo
These guys are A-holes, what was the justification for peppering a minaret exactly, are all American Soliders A-holes? of course they are not!
Im just saying, its not just 'Islam' that does these things.
There was this policy not to enter mosques ...never ever not to hurt local people's feelings till mosques turned out to be ammo dumps and terrorists hideouts.
There was this policy not to enter mosques ...never ever not to hurt local people's feelings till mosques turned out to be ammo dumps and terrorists hideouts.
Thats all good and well, but there are many many examples of wrong doing from our side. We invaded a country based on a lie, and our values and ethics are pretty accademic when we are senslessly murdering thousands of innocent people and maiming thousands more, deosn't matter how we dress it up, we are not much better or worse than 'them overall. Just different.
Thats all good and well, but there are many many examples of wrong doing from our side. We invaded a country based on a lie, and our values and ethics are pretty accademic when we are senslessly murdering thousands of innocent people and maiming thousands more, deosn't matter how we dress it up, we are not much better or worse than 'them overall. Just different.
Many Iraqis had high hopes with the Americans but other internal and external interest kicked in....in retrospect it could be much better to have conscious clean and let them kill each other.
this would actually had saved some American lives.
Many Iraqis had high hopes with the Americans but other internal and external interest kicked in....in retrospect it could be much better to have conscious clean and let them kill each other.
Unfortunatley your are probably right.
Unfortunatley your are probably right.
Good then... don't play it some sort of humanitarian do good er concerned with well being of humanity lol
This whole anti American campaign is wrapped in that crap therefore a lie again.
Skybird
07-11-12, 06:45 AM
1) Are you going to tell me there 'could be' justifable miltary reasons for ever single isolated attrocity carried out by our side in Iraq? The torture, the rapes and god know what else? In that country we invaded against our own international laws because they had invisible WMDs? Of course the majority of Our Troops were not doing these things, may well have done so based on an ideology that muslims are bad. there may not be a holy book ont hat but its still an ideology.
What part of the question exactly did you not understand?
2) Problem with the Islamic ideology (much like all the major relegions) is that its written in such a way that is wide open to mis-interpretation and bad translation.
The Islamic Ideology you like to present is simply 'your' interpretation of it (nothing wrong with that mind you)
but heres my question, why should I trust at face value, an interpretation of Islam from someone that I know has very low opinion of Islam? If i want to learn about cars, I dont go and ask Green Peace do I?
For all I know you might just be picking out the parts that support your distain, and leave out the parts that dont, (like a 9/11 truther) Im not saying you ARE doing this - just that its pretty typical of human behaviour, thats all.
It is not as rnadom as yiou claim it to be. First, the Quran is filled with contradicting lines, these derive - for the vast majority - from the fact of different times of origin when what Muhammad said the passage in question. This has never stopped both fundamentalist mainstream and the so-called moderate islam that you think exists from proceeding thoruhg history ion the fundamentalist manner. This may be becasue of another fact, that is that the socalled abrogation principle gained consensus amongst all major Muslim juristzic schools and lineages already in 9th or 10th century. It says that in case of contradiction between two quotes from different passages of the Quran, the one that has been given later (was created later and thus is newer) should be given superiority over the older one. Muhammad turned the more violent and aggressive the elder he becam and the more successful his conquest was running. So do the math and add 1 and 1 together. Most violent passages in the Quran are the later ones. They thus have dominance over older quotes.
The whole book is, like the bible a confused collection of contradictions and a bullride through the timeline, because the Suras are nbot sorted in chronological order, but by length. That allows Islam to blind the unknowing infidels and giove one quote toat tells them qhat they want to hear, while acting on behalf of another one that means them evil. The whole communication from Islam'S side is an endless stream of one-eyed halftruths and deceptive opportunistic baits meant to mislead the intended victims, the prey. And the prey is us.
In case of doubt, judge it by the histoic record of deed, act and behavior. And for that dark historic record it has on its behalf, I hold it responsible, no matter what they tell me about that I misunderstand it, and that it was meant differently than it was carried out, and and and. I simply don't listen anymore, I simply do mnot care anymore. I'm not buying this bull. I seer the disatrous trail Islam has left in world'S history and that it has set every place into flames where it arrives and that it destroyed or tried to destroy every culture it came into contact with, and that it bullies against everybody, and claims everything for itself. That is what counts, and that is what decides whether I see it as tolerant, multicultural and peaceful, or as violent, intolerant and supremacistic. The deed is what counts, and even more when the deed is in conformity with the demands of the ideology that motivates and justifies the deed. Here, I see conformity between both.
And so I see Islam as what it is. Inhumane, intolerant, aggressive, violent and totalitarian. It is in its historic record of behavior. It is in it's ideology and in its scripture. More is not needed to form an opinion.
Tribesman
07-11-12, 06:53 AM
It is also a known historic fact that monuments, and artifacts of foreign. non Muslim culture get drestroyed by Islkam rulers since always and up until today. The latest such act was the act done in Tiumbuktu just three weeks ago or so. Another famous act was the demoiltion of the giant Buddha statues in Afghanistan. But alreadxy at the time of the second Caliph theyx alraeyd were destzroying buildings and temples and mopnuments of other cultures when they did not fit into their Muslim view of history.
It didn't take Sky long to chime in with his usual line of rubbish were he manages to contradict himself in very short order.:doh:
The problem with the hysterical chimps who write this stuff is that they will belive any old garbage that justifies their reason for hating someone or something, all it takes is for a a handful of retarded islamic radicals to suggest something controversial, and before you know it - it becomes "THE MUSLIMS" as if all 2 billion of them are conspiring together (because as we know, they all get on so well with each other dont they? :dead:)
Nicely done
Game set and match:up:
Though I hope you are not besmirching any other chimps when you refer to the hyterical ones:03:
Tribesman
07-11-12, 07:02 AM
It is not as rnadom as yiou claim it to be. First, the Quran is filled with contradicting lines, these derive - for the vast majority - from the fact of different times of origin when what Muhammad said the passage in question. This has never stopped both fundamentalist mainstream and the so-called moderate islam that you think exists from proceeding thoruhg history ion the fundamentalist manner. This may be becasue of another fact, that is that the socalled abrogation principle gained consensus amongst all major Muslim juristzic schools and lineages already in 9th or 10th century. It says that in case of contradiction between two quotes from different passages of the Quran, the one that has been given later (was created later and thus is newer) should be given superiority over the older one. Muhammad turned the more violent and aggressive the elder he becam and the more successful his conquest was running. So do the math and add 1 and 1 together. Most violent passages in the Quran are the later ones. They thus have dominance over older quotes.
Right.
The whole book is, like the bible a confused collection of contradictions and a bullride through the timeline, because the Suras are nbot sorted in chronological order, but by length.
So skybird just trashed his own arguement and then topped it by repeating some of his bull that was totally trashed before
"I has looked briefly at a german translation and some bits at a rough count looked longer than others sort of so ya I is right as i had written for many years this"
In case of doubt, judge it by the histoic record of deed, act and behavior.
:haha:crazy man, absolutely far out crazy.
If in doubt about a text you look at the text.
Well I guess you won't be happy until this, starts happening again, I notice in my last threat where this picture was posted, it was deleted, some just can't handle the truth, take a good long look at it, it happened and we need to make sure this never happens again. Arab spring in Eygpt what a wonderful thing. WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURE
Image Deleted <NeonSamurai>
No graphic images of people murdered, blown up, dismembered, or similarly ripped up. If you must, you can use a link to the image and include the warning "Graphic image warning". Copied from rules nothing said about fixin to be executed.
It was probably deleted because:
No graphic images of people murdered, blown up, dismembered, or similarly ripped up. If you must, you can use a link to the image and include the warning "Graphic image warning".
Tribesman
07-11-12, 07:53 AM
we need to make sure this never happens again.
Well thats easy.
Apparently there is this secret UN NWO plan which will ban all guns and send them off to ReptiliaPrime in those spaceships under the pyramids, when this plan comes to fruition it will be impossible for people to be shot in the back of the head anymore.
So Yubba, and I won't link to that picture again, but I'm guessing that you're fine with that so long as you're holding the gun and the person you're shooting is a Muslim, right? :hmmm:
@Yubba, If that ^ ever happens again, and it happens somewhere like America, it is far more likley it will come from within your own borders that from outside of them. odds of 10-1 Id say, so be careful who you vote for and keep an eye on the small print on those bills that get rushed though congress, do this and Im sure you will be fine :03:.
For an American, you live in nation of mostly christians and Jews who are armed to the teeth, so the spread of Islam should be the least of your worries, while the fixing economy and protecting the constitution (mostly from other Americans) should be number 1.
@Skybird, If I want a take in a lesson on the subject of Islam, I will go and find someone who is objective as possible on the subject, and I think you will agree that is just not going to be you.
I have seen that you can be objective and balanced on other other topics, (and I can either agree or at least sympathise with your views on several other issues) -Just not this one.
Skybird
07-11-12, 08:37 AM
If confronted with too harsh a sight: close both eyes, turn away, and deny reality.
Very well. This works great - until the day the object of your denial bites you in the a$$.
If confronted with too harsh a sight: close both eyes, turn away, and deny reality.
Very well. This works great - until the day the object of your denial bites you in the a$$.
Thats exaclty what Im talking about ^
This is reality:
Muslims: 90% of them are complacent like rest of us and dont really give a toss about what happens outside of their own neighbourhood,
The extremists all hate each other, most them have got no money, and most of the world regards them as idiots.
Yet some how they will take over the non-muslim world by the genius art of burning flags and building stealth mosques on every street corner untill we are all drawn to the call of prayer like zombies to a carcass?
How can I take you views on Islam seriously when you believe its a giant conspiricy?
For godsakes man, there are almost as many Chinese as there are Muslims. Islam is 2 about billion people, Non-Islam is about 5 billion people.. do the maths.
How come none of the muslims Ive met tried to convert me or kill me? How come they just drank tea and played video games with me? is it an evil trick?
Most of them are pretty coy about dicussing their faith to non-muslims, you have to ask them.
You think that is because they have something to hide? or perhaps that they are just doing it out of politeness?
Tribesman
07-11-12, 09:05 AM
If confronted with too harsh a sight: close both eyes, turn away, and deny reality.
Skybirds ignore list:har:
Yet some how they will take over the world by the genius art of burning flags and building stealth mosques on every street corner untill we are all drawn to the call of prayer like zombies to a carcass?
?
Don't know about Europe but that is very nice description of some ME regions.:haha:
There is no shortage of those guys and things are sort of moving backward so far...lets hope its one step back that will be followed by 2 forward.:D
EU has low % of muslims but i heard about what is going on in some hoods there and it does not look very good.
@Yubba, If that ^ ever happens again, and it happens somewhere like America, it is far more likley it will come from within your own borders that from outside of them. odds of 10-1 Id say, so be careful who you vote for and keep an eye on the small print on those bills that get rushed though congress, do this and Im sure you will be fine :03:.
For an American, you live in nation of mostly christians and Jews who are armed to the teeth, so the spread of Islam should be the least of your worries, while the fixing economy and protecting the constitution (mostly from other Americans) should be number 1.
@Skybird, If I want a take in a lesson on the subject of Islam, I will go and find someone who is objective as possible on the subject, and I think you will agree that is just not going to be you.
I have seen that you can be objective and balanced on other other topics, (and I can either agree or at least sympathise with your views on several other issues) -Just not this one.
I think it already has happened.
No graphic images of people murdered, blown up, dismembered, or similarly ripped up. If you must, you can use a link to the image and include the warning "Graphic image warning". copied from rules, nothing about fixin to be executed, or kicked in the head by a thug welcome to Post Consitutional America, or Americtopia to others.
I think it already has happened.
No graphic images of people murdered, blown up, dismembered, or similarly ripped up. If you must, you can use a link to the image and include the warning "Graphic image warning". copied from rules, nothing about fixin to be executed, or kicked in the head by a thug welcome to Post Consitutional America, or Americtopia to others. 1234556
Picture removed <NeonSamurai>
So which one is that, Muslim, UN communazi or Obama?
Skybird
07-11-12, 11:08 AM
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_(Tolerance)
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Penguin
07-11-12, 11:12 AM
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8720/abydosdestroyed.jpg
I support the people who want to blow up those pesky pyramids. Let the Egytians have an unobstructud view of the desert!
:arrgh!:
Jimbuna
07-11-12, 11:19 AM
Well I guess you won't be happy until this, starts happening again, I notice in my last threat where this picture was posted, it was deleted, some just can't handle the truth, take a good long look at it, it happened and we need to make sure this never happens again. Arab spring in Eygpt what a wonderful thing. WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURE
No graphic images of people murdered, blown up, dismembered, or similarly ripped up. If you must, you can use a link to the image and include the warning "Graphic image warning". Copied from rules nothing said about fixin to be executed.
Infraction given.
This image has been deleted before and a perfectly good reason is the fact younger people visit this forum and it can be reasonably assumed that this content is not suitable for said age group.
If you really feel the need to post such material then simply post a link with an advisory note as set out in the forum rules.
Now would you be kind enough to remove it.
Thanking you in anticipation of your cooperation.
1234556
[PICTURE]
There were number of reasons his sentence was somewhat "mild"
a) His overall good service record in the police force
b) The lady attacked him first
c) He had PTSD and suffered from Hypervigilance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervigilance)
Not defending his actions, but those points give it a better perspective than
"OMG POLICE BRUTALITY!!11 PLZ LIKE ON FB!! LOL!1"
Oh and he can try to get his job back all he wants, it doesn't mean he's going to get it.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_(Tolerance (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_%28Tolerance))
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
I can drop links too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamophobic_incidents
We've been here before, we've done this before. Christianity can hardly be trumpeted as the religion of peace, all organised religion is flawed from the base upwards due to humanity, not religion, humanity.
Tribesman
07-11-12, 12:38 PM
I can drop links too
But your links are normal, his links are, what was it ?
.....written by hysterical chimps:rotfl2:
Sailor Steve
07-11-12, 12:45 PM
Well I guess you won't be happy until this, starts happening again, I notice in my last threat where this picture was posted, it was deleted, some just can't handle the truth,
Your entire post was deleted because it was nothing more than spam trolling. You showed several of the pictures more than once, which is spamming. You show a consistent inability to actually debate the issues you bring up, you call your opinion "truth", and you dismiss anything anyone says to the opposite with epithets. You act like a troll, and contribute nothing to the conversation or the forum.
Takeda Shingen
07-11-12, 01:00 PM
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_rules3_faq_item
There are any number of forums which allow unbridled idiocy to reign, we want the Radio Room to be a civil, mature forum for discussions about naval and subsims, tactics, mods, playing tips, troubleshooting, and submarine topics in general. As such, we retain the right to edit and/or delete posts we find offensive. We also have the right to ban users who contribute to poisoning the well. Just as a radio talk host has the right to decide which callers he airs and a newspaper editor decides which letters he prints and which he throws away, the moderators in the Radio Room forums have final say on rants and spews they decide should be cut.
Guys, if a moderator removes an image, don't go posting it again. And if you are asked to remove an image, please do so. Posting additional images to thumb your nose at the moderators isn't the thing to do.
Still, at least he's in the brig now and we can enjoy a little time off from "OBAMAWHARRGARBL" posts, and focus on "MUSLIMWHARRGARBL" posts instead. :yep:
Skybird
07-11-12, 01:56 PM
I can drop links too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamophobic_incidents
We've been here before, we've done this before. Christianity can hardly be trumpeted as the religion of peace, all organised religion is flawed from the base upwards due to humanity, not religion, humanity.
Now you know why I am against all of them. I shiver when thinking what relgions do to people, always, when they are given governing power and control over a state.
However, in the West and in the Arab world, the problem today is not violence ciommitted in the name of Christian dogma against Muslims. The problem is violence and discrmination by Muslims against Christians and Jews.
The links btw were meant as a reply to that claim that "90% of Muslims just sit still and want to do their business" and "do not care for dogma and ideology". This claim is wrong, as I know from own experience both in some of their countries where intolerance against Christians and Jews runs high - and is taken and defended as the most natural thing you can imagine. Mainstream Islam is orthodox fundamentalist Islam, not a moderate or ideologically uninterested version. Islam is no moderate but afundamentalist ideology, desiogned to justify conquest. I could go on and refer to - but already did that several times over the past years - to both polls and sociological researches done that showed for Germany and for England high numbers of especially third generation young migrants to be far more religiously orthodox than the first generation grandparents that came to the West 50, 60 years ago, and that huge numbers of the younger advocate and accept violence as a means to enforce Shariah as basis of the state's basis (25-35% as far as I recall), with 40% and more being of the opinion that they are superior to pork-eaters and Western dhimmi and infidel whores, and thus see no wrong in dealing with the native people accordingly, and half of the males and almost half of the females found it okay that women are subordinate to men and that men may use violence against women. And Antisemitism is as old in Islam as Islam is old in years anyway
Integration consequently is a disaster in the West. Non-Muslims for the most integrate well and are willing to do so. Muslim migrants: a disaster. The huge majoirty does not really integrate, and that is no surprise, since the Quran forbids them to conform to Non-Muslims. The pressure of their own group does the rest.
And you guys can think and say and dream what you want: a Muslim is who takes Quran and Shariah as basis for his life, legislation, administration, basis of the state. The Quran gives nothing you can use to argue that you can be in conformity with Islam and thus be a Muslim without taking Quran and Shariah as the omnipotent basis and highest authority, above everything else, also above the land'S laws, the state's constitution.
It is sad, it simply is sad and discouraging to me that people in the West refuse to learn the lessons of history, regarding Islam over the past centuries of attempted conquest of Europe, as well as regarding the nature of totalitarian ideologies. It is as if the Nazis and Chamberlain and Stalin and Soviet dictatorship in Eastgermany never took place. I should feel happy to have no children of my own and to leave nobody behind that must suffer the consequences of European Islamisation. But I am not happy, I am in disbelief about the blindness of people, their unwillingness to open their eyes and see while there still may be some time, and the hopelessness of this desperate hope.
Also, this kind of blind stupidity causes me a sick feeling in my stomach, and a skin irritation that itches, and both together give me a notoriously bad mood.
Learn the lesson of Chamberlain. That was a man who thought because there was WWI short time ago, it cannot be that just again another catastrohe is forming up at the horizon, and while he knew Hitler'S book and while he heared him holding his speeches on radio, he refused to believe what he saw and heared, and he may have thought that Germans do not take it serioulsy, but some did, maybe not even a majoirty, and we know how it ended. Today, some 300 million Chamberlains seem to live in Europe. It cannot be what should not be. Unimaginable, because if it were that bad, then we would need to act! Shock! Awe! Us...? Doing something, needing to correct mistakes made, needing to admit that we were wrong, needing to accept confrpotnation in defence of our freedom, us - needing to fight...??? Isn'T it pure heresy to think that maybe we lack the shine and glory to convince a barbarian conqueror-cult to reform itself? Nooo, it cannot be like that, unimaginable, it all is just irrational phobia by some unknowing haters, and those scpritures and laws thse friendly people constantly yell about, that means nothing to them because it means nothing to us because them and us are basically the same.
Yeah, sure.
It's not just religion though Skybird, the same dark dregs of humanity can be seen throughout time from now back to the dawn of civilization. Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, both used the same form of control that you lay at the feet of the Islamic faith. To denounce every member of that faith as a radical is to denounce every citizen of Germany between the years of 1933-1945 as a Nazi, or every citizen of the Soviet Union between 1917 and 1991 as a Communist. However we both know that it's not as simple as that, nothing in life is as simple as that. There is no black and there is no white.
If you had asked the average Brit in 1940 about the German people he would have condemned them all as Nazis, just as the average American would condemn all Russians as Commies in the 1950s and people condemn all Muslims as radicals. It's the same thing. It's just a mask that people of all faiths, political beliefs, colours, sexes, and ages wear, they hide behind various excuses for their behaviour because no-one wants to admit that deep down we are all the same, and that there is no-one who is greater or inferior to us all, and that there is no real reason for war beyond that which we invent for our own selves.
Tribesman
07-11-12, 02:35 PM
However, in the West and in the Arab world, the problem today is not violence ciommitted in the name of Christian dogma against Muslims. The problem is violence and discrmination by Muslims against Christians and Jews.
Bloody hell, what sort of mindnumbingly dense person could make a statement like that on the eve of 520 european muslims being finally properly buried after being dug up from the mass graves they were thrown in after being murdered because some nuts didn't like muslims.
Mainstream Islam is orthodox fundamentalist Islam, not a moderate or ideologically uninterested version. Islam is no moderate but afundamentalist ideology, desiogned to justify conquest. I could go on and refer to - but already did that several times over the past years
Which is why people know you are talking rubbish.
Your version of Islam is a fairly modern creation and you claim it is the only true one, yet the version you moan about most as its widespread in europe happens to be a vesion that those fundy nuts say isn't islam.
Your moaning shows you for what you are, completely locked in a shut off unthinking trance where you stick your figers in your ears and reel off long passages of completely contradictory nonsense as though the sheer volume of your nonsense will somehow make it correct.
^Dont bother mate.
But you have to confront that hate and bile and show it for what it is.
Skybird is no different from zeewolf in that manner, though perhaps he is worse as you know that somewhere under that crap there is a mind that functions well some of the time
^Dont bother mate.
No, no, because to be fair, I can see Skybirds point in some conversations we have, in particular conversations about human nature in general and we both agree on many aspects of, what I believe he once called the 'rat race' or 'rodent theatre'. I have respect for him, controversial views or not, as someone who is very intelligent and does a lot of thinking outside of the box.
I'm not trying to change his point of view on anything, nor call him out as wrong, because if that is what he believes then that is what he believes and I'm not going to condemn people for believing in one thing if I believe in another because then I've become the very thing I've been condemning! :haha:
No, no, because to be fair, I can see Skybirds point in some conversations we have, in particular conversations about human nature in general and we both agree on many aspects of, what I believe he once called the 'rat race' or 'rodent theatre'. I have respect for him, controversial views or not, as someone who is very intelligent and does a lot of thinking outside of the box.
I'm not trying to change his point of view on anything, nor call him out as wrong, because if that is what he believes then that is what he believes and I'm not going to condemn people for believing in one thing if I believe in another because then I've become the very thing I've been condemning! :haha:
Fair enough.
It's not just religion though Skybird, the same dark dregs of humanity can be seen throughout time from now back to the dawn of civilization. Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, both used the same form of control that you lay at the feet of the Islamic faith. To denounce every member of that faith as a radical is to denounce every citizen of Germany between the years of 1933-1945 as a Nazi, or every citizen of the Soviet Union between 1917 and 1991 as a Communist. However we both know that it's not as simple as that, nothing in life is as simple as that. There is no black and there is no white.
If you had asked the average Brit in 1940 about the German people he would have condemned them all as Nazis, just as the average American would condemn all Russians as Commies in the 1950s and people condemn all Muslims as radicals. It's the same thing. It's just a mask that people of all faiths, political beliefs, colours, sexes, and ages wear, they hide behind various excuses for their behaviour because no-one wants to admit that deep down we are all the same, and that there is no-one who is greater or inferior to us all, and that there is no real reason for war beyond that which we invent for our own selves.
Well said but...this does not change some basic realities about some general trends and political views of the world in some cultures.
The fact that western culture has somewhat cured itself from foolishness of the past not necessary means that the same about others.
Not always the other side sees your side the way you describe.
Also not all germans had been Nazis but there was enough nazis to make the difference while the rest just wanted the get on with their lifes
The others had not been real Nazis but looked other way because of fear or benefits the ideology brought with it.
When you talk about Islam you talking about religion deep rooted for hundreds of years.
The choice between modern humanism and old tradition can be very though one...in particular when preached by satellite channels from ME to some immigrants with identity/cultural problems in EU.
So some of the preachers may be some bastards who skew (or not) the religion for their own purpose but still it does not matter very much...does it?
I don't think that EU is about to be overtaken by Islamic hordes or Muslims must be hated but the problem is there....communism and associated terrorists groups had been the plaque of past century while Islam might be of this century but on bigger scale.
So is Islam problematic ideology or not...OK on philosophical level people are... but the problem is that every nutcase can find shelter in radical Islam and do some great deeds in the name of allah....and its cool according to too many preachers.
The issue weather a mosque in the neighborhood or smell of falafel bothers you is another issue but almost autonomous neighborhoods where law is hard to maintain is not.
..........
TLAM Strike
07-11-12, 05:12 PM
I can drop links too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims
I love how that list has its most recent event being WWI and stuff that happened in Stalinist Russia. While most of the rest is stuff that included kicking them out of places they had invaded (if that's persecution then we really own an apology to the Germans) or wars that happened during the dark ages.
In the west we might tell them that we don't like them, or their ideals and tell them to go home.
Ok, first things first, TLAM, remove those links please, Yubba has been brigged for a similar offence and I'd hate to see you suffer the same fate.
Secondly, the list only goes as far as WWI because, as MH has pointed out, we've generally stopped doing that kind of thing, however the entire mess in the Balkans and the Kosovan war has shown that we're not exactly apostles of mercy in Europe.
However, hatred breeds hatred, the people who preach that Muslims should be considered evil are no different to the Muslims who preach that all of the West is evil. We don't have suicide bombers yet, but as Breivik in Norway has shown, the hatred is there and it will find ways to come out.
So, where does it end? Muslims in death camps? Them or us? As always it will be those in the middle of both sides who suffer for the crimes of those committed to their path of violence and hatred.
Dark times lie ahead.
Tribesman
07-11-12, 06:04 PM
love how that list has its most recent event being WWI and stuff that happened in Stalinist Russia.
I love how it clearly says it is a list of old historic events and then has a link to the page of more recent events.
TLAM Strike
07-11-12, 06:17 PM
However, hatred breeds hatred, the people who preach that Muslims should be considered evil are no different to the Muslims who preach that all of the West is evil. We don't have suicide bombers yet, but as Breivik in Norway has shown, the hatred is there and it will find ways to come out.
So, where does it end? Muslims in death camps? Them or us? As always it will be those in the middle of both sides who suffer for the crimes of those committed to their path of violence and hatred.
Dark times lie ahead.
The major difference here is those in Muslim nations and enclaves are saying 'we in the west are evil, this book tells me so!', while those in the west are saying 'Muslims are evil because they are killing everyone!'. This "hatred" in the west is born of our own rational thought, much like the hatred of Fascism or Communism not too long ago, to deny it is to insure your own destruction.
Islamic ideology is like antimatter you can either contain it till it decays, direct it so it will annihilate with normal mater in a controlled fashion, or you let it exist without containment and it mutually annihilates everything it touches.
Ok, first things first, TLAM, remove those links please, Yubba has been brigged for a similar offence and I'd hate to see you suffer the same fate.
Secondly, the list only goes as far as WWI because, as MH has pointed out, we've generally stopped doing that kind of thing, however the entire mess in the Balkans and the Kosovan war has shown that we're not exactly apostles of mercy in Europe.
However, hatred breeds hatred, the people who preach that Muslims should be considered evil are no different to the Muslims who preach that all of the West is evil. We don't have suicide bombers yet, but as Breivik in Norway has shown, the hatred is there and it will find ways to come out.
So, where does it end? Muslims in death camps? Them or us? As always it will be those in the middle of both sides who suffer for the crimes of those committed to their path of violence and hatred.
Dark times lie ahead.
Yubba was thrown into the brig because he posted a photo, that he have posted before and removed by one of the moderators. Not because of some link.
It's better to link to a page/photo and give a warning, so the one who click on the link is warned.
Markus
The major difference here is those in Muslim nations and enclaves are saying 'we in the west are evil, this book tells me so!', while those in the west are saying 'Muslims are evil because they are killing everyone!'. This "hatred" in the west is born of our own rational thought, much like the hatred of Fascism or Communism not too long ago, to deny it is to insure your own destruction.
Islamic ideology is like antimatter you can either contain it till it decays, direct it so it will annihilate with normal mater in a controlled fashion, or you let it exist without containment and it mutually annihilates everything it touches.
But doesn't that train of thought make America evil as well? From an outside point of view, they are also killing everyone, and if their own media is to be believe, it's pretty indiscriminate. They also torture civilians and break the law when it suits them according to their own media.
Platapus
07-11-12, 06:52 PM
The major difference here is those in Muslim nations and enclaves are saying 'we in the west are evil, this book tells me so!', while those in the west are saying 'Muslims are evil because they are killing everyone!'.
How many times do Westerners cherry pick quotes from the Qur'an to illustrate how Muslims are evil? That book tells me so!
How many times to Muslims claim that the Americans are evil because of all the people the Americans are killing?
Both sides use generalizations and stereotypes to further their agendas. Both sides are citing truths and both sides are making stuff up. That's realpolitiks.
Sometimes it reminds me of the "logical" discussions my brother and I used to have with my mother.
Mom!, he started it!
No! you started it!
No I didn't!
Yeah you did!
No!
Yeah!
My mom would handle it by smacking both of us. Too bad the world does not have a "mom" to settle things. :yep:
My mom would handle it by smacking both of us. Too bad the world does not have a "mom" to settle things. :yep:
Oh how it is needed now... :yep:
Skybird
07-11-12, 07:38 PM
Guys, why this absurd straying into nirvana. My, you do not need to "cherrypick" the bitter rosins in the Quran. All you need to do is look around int he world, and look at the Muslim communities in nyour own place. Judge them yb what record these ciutnries show up with. the countries are at ther status of some medieval rogue states run by theocratic tyrants and/or corrupt dictators. They mirgaton communities in the West are keeping themselves shut and sealed from Western evil influence of the most, and the offsprings become more and more radicalised and reject to integrate, they often are more religious than their grandfathers and -mothers.
Then ask yourself why is it that migrants from other places that are not Muslim do not resist integraiton so bitterly, and do not make such a wave all the time. Ask why Muslim migrant groups are massively over-represented in certain branches of crmine statistics, while natives and non-Muslim migrants for the most are not. And finally ask what is it that motivates them most.
the answer is: ideology. And ideology that leaves the Muslim world in such a pitiful state as it is in since so long, an ideology that teaches intolerance against non-Muslims and supression of women, an ideology that is given as the excuse why integration is rejected, an ideology that kills apostates - what is to be thought of such an ideology? Is it a good or a bad one? Is it powerless, or is it influential?
Man, I am left stunned and in disbelief to see time and again the brain gymnastics tried by Westerners to gloss over this ideology and to make it appear as harmless and meaningless.
The West is really asking for it. YOU all are really asking for it.
And since some time now I have started to come around and think: maybe the West indeed deserves what is coming at it. You help to destroy your most precious freedoms and values, that your foefathers biotterly fought to gain and suffered over in defence, and you are not even aware of it. You just throw it away, careless, and not realising its real worth.
I'm becoming tired of defending this West against it's own lunatism. Let it all go to hell. Too many seem to be determined to race the car against the wall at highest possible speed, thinking the car is slow and there is no wall. What can reason acchieve against so strong a determination to destroy oneself? In the end: nothing.
So how do you think Germany should deal with all this?
Closing borders could be good idea for start and kicking out all illegals?
Oh how it is needed now... :yep:
Mahdi will sort it out....:haha:
Alright, let's look around at the Muslims around me. Well, there aren't any, so let's look a bit further afield.
We have had one major terrorist attack which killed just over fifty people, and a couple of other minor attempts which didn't really do much.
Now, either we're really good, or they're just not trying because the IRA did a better job of putting bombs in London than any of the radicals have so far.
So, putting that aside, let's look at people arrested for extremism. There's been a few, and some of them have even been picked up after the police have been alerted by members of the Muslim community, but at the same time there's been probably around the same amount of EDL nutters who have been arrested for threatening to blow up mosques. You work out which gets the better headlines in the Daily Mail...
The week before last, two Muslims had the audacity to go sailing near where the Olympic canoeing event is due to take place, and one of them was even an idiot with links to an extremist...you can imagine where the press went with this story. However, if you actually bother to dig a little deeper you'll find that there was no crime involved in it at all...and the other followers of the extremist in question are...special needs terrorists.
I quote from the BBC with their description of this masterpiece of a plan to infiltrate the London Stock Exchange as stockbrokers, plant an incendiary device in the toilets and collapse the economy of the UK:
"There were obvious flaws with the plan – not least the probable role of sprinklers and the London Fire Brigade. The surveillance indicated the men wanted to plant the device on Christmas Eve. The building would have been shut."
Sometimes I wonder if they're really trying any more... :haha:
Anyone can be a jihadist, anyone can be a Brevik, they are two sides of the same coin, and if there is a war in the future, it will be between those types of people, and they won't get hurt, no, it'll be the people in the middle who are killed. Perhaps that is why it is so tempting to take sides these days, but both sides are idiots in my opinion.
Still, if European nations want to revert to the Third Reich and start rounding up and imprisoning Muslims, that's their choice, and I doubt we'll have any say in the matter. Likewise if they want to convert to Sharia law, what are we going to do, throw shoes at them?
If people are that concerned about the Islamic invasion of Europe then the only thing I can suggest is that they move to America.
So how do you think Germany should deal with all this?
Closing borders could be good idea for start and kicking out all illegals?
Mahdi will sort it out....:haha:
Why stop there?
If you kick them out, they'll just come back in illegally, no border is 100% secure.
No, you'll have to detain them, and their families...but then you'll have lots of people in prison taking up resources which you need for your people.
You could always release them back into society and make them wear a label denoting what they are...
Or you could just...remove them...permanently.
Is that a road that Europe really wants to go down? Again?
Why stop there?
If you kick them out, they'll just come back in illegally, no border is 100% secure.
No, you'll have to detain them, and their families...but then you'll have lots of people in prison taking up resources which you need for your people.
You could always release them back into society and make them wear a label denoting what they are...
Or you could just...remove them...permanently.
Is that a road that Europe really wants to go down? Again?
There are about 4 million Muslims in Germany which is not very much.
I think Germany can easily take them in without any danger of becoming sharia state.:roll:
Germany also has right to tighten its emigration laws and chose who would be allowed to receive legal status and under what conditions.
Most countries do this one way or another.
Whats the big deal about 4m vs 81m...just a minor headache.
TLAM Strike
07-12-12, 12:32 AM
<snip>
<Snip>
Its not the stuff "cherry picked" from the Koran that worries me, its the stuff their own damn leaders say that worries me! I'll pass by all the mundane anti-semite, and anti-female stuff and get to the good stuff...
We have documented proof that they (U.S. leaders) believe that a descendant of the prophet of Islam will raise in these parts (the Middle East) and he will dry the roots of all injustice in the world, they have devised all these plans to prevent the coming of the Hidden Imam because they know that the Iranian nation is the one that will prepare the grounds for his coming and will be the supporters of his rule.
Yea Ahmadinejad wants to bring about the second coming. A second coming that if you read what these Twelvers believe requires the Islamic nations to get their butts kicked first by the "forces of evil".
Yea I would be worried if Pat Robertson was trying to get a nuke too.
Yea Ahmadinejad wants to bring about the second coming. A second coming that if you read what these Twelvers believe requires the Islamic nations to get their butts kicked first by the "forces of evil".
They just act crazy but deep inside are cool and good rational guys that speak rubbish for domestic consumption.
TLAM Strike
07-12-12, 12:45 AM
They just act crazy but deep inside are cool and good rational guys that speak rubbish for domestic consumption.
:timeout:
Is that meant to make us feel better? We just went from one nut in charge to a horde 78 million nuts. :hmm2:
I can't believe anyone would see the logic of calling 2 billion people violent radical zealots. How about I call all Americans fat gun-toting rednecks? What if I called all Russians communists? What if I called all Christians intolerant bigots? When you make these incredibly large generalizations, you are no better than the people you hate. Look at the amount of Muslims in the US. There are over a million that are active, and how many of them have tried to slaughter other people because of them not being Muslim? How many of them try to force their ways onto others here? No more than any other religion. I haven't met a single Muslim that hated my atheism or wanted to kill me because of it. They see themselves as just as American as me or any other citizen. They are just as law abiding as any other American citizen. I'm sure that a few of them do commit crimes though, just like Christians commit crimes, and just like atheists commit crimes. It seldom has anything to do with your religion or lack-there-of, but rather of the individual's thoughts and experiances. You can't just see some extremeists and label them all as the same. That's like if I saw a few German criminals and decided that "all Germans must be criminals". Hate the people that commit these actions, not the people who happen to be of the same religion.
I can't believe anyone would see the logic of calling 2 billion people violent radical zealots. .
Actually it could be 10% of the 2 billion at most.:doh:
Then there are centrist leftist and so on...:rotfl2:
American Muslims are much smaller groups and much better integrated through longer period of time.
They also come from different background.
USA is also emigrant country which makes it easier for both sides.
USA is playing good game of stick and carrot...that is making lives of radicals miserable.
Just had a thought, if the Muslim's do any harm to the pyramids they will have to deal with Apophis!:oops:
http://www.sg1.cz/postavy/images/apophis.jpg
Actually it could be 10% of the 2 billion at most.:doh:
Then there are centrist leftist and so on...:rotfl2:
By that logic, at least 10% of Christians want to see non-Christians wiped out. The only difference is that most Christians live in countries with secular laws. I gaurantee you that we'd see the same atrocities over here if we had predominately Christian theocracies. In fact, we did back in the early Renaissance/Middle Ages. The Crusades, Inquisition, various religious wars, persecution of all non-Christians. Religion can easily be used by anyone to justify murder and genocide. The morons in the Middle East just have a more leeway than the morons in the US and Europe now.
By that logic, at least 10% of Christians want to see non-Christians wiped out. The only difference is that most Christians live in countries with secular laws. .
I totally agree with you...this small nuance of secular country matters a lot when it comes to America or west as whole.
It point out to general cultural trend.
Tribesman
07-12-12, 02:53 AM
There are about 4 million Muslims in Germany which is not very much.
I think Germany can easily take them in without any danger of becoming sharia state.:roll:
But read Bat'ty, there are more than that and not only are they all arabs they are all fundamentalist arabs who are of the wahibi flavour.
These people are part of a plan with the French to turn europe into a fundamentalist sharia state by breeding like rabbits, look at that turkish bloke, he says thats his plan errrr...OK forget that no hold on ohmygodan is really secretly saudi:yep:, then there is this Bangledeshi horde who are secretly arabs and are building mosques everywhere to force churches to shut and make people follow their brance of islam which is described as errrrr....heretic, but they are just sneaky arabs and are "heretics" who are secretly wahibi as all muslims are.
Look its all true, Eurabia is coming, just google Bat'ty and see how many hits you get. You can't knock the source as being crazy if there are lots of google hits.
Man, I am left stunned and in disbelief to see time and again the brain gymnastics tried by Westerners to gloss over this ideology and to make it appear as harmless and meaningless.
The mental gymnastics is yours with your cognitive problem where you are repeatedly making entirely contradictory claims and insisting that they are all true, while at the same time suggesting policies and ideologies taken straight from the third reich yet being blissfully ignorant of the fact as your hatred has made you certain that you are right and rightous.
Yea Ahmadinejad wants to bring about the second coming.
Did you object on those grounds when Palin was up for VP, after all that church she was in was all about the Alaskan refuge for the righteous when America falls and gets its butt kicked as a prelude to the second coming.
Do you also object to Israeli nukes due to the undue influence of the ultras who think Israel can only truly exist when the world decends into end of times conflict?
I can't believe anyone would see the logic of calling 2 billion people violent radical zealots.
There is no logic, it doesn't stop people from saying it though.
Catfish
07-12-12, 03:59 AM
Well they did it before, from destruction of ancient Buddha figures in Afghanistan, to shooting at the Abu Simbel figures, which were not destroyed though yet.
I really would like to know why they do such things :nope:
I really would like to know why they do such things :nope:
The chances of anyone actually destroying the Pyramids are around zero. The reason that things like this happen though, is religious extremism coupled with theocracies and political instability.
Catfish
07-12-12, 04:53 AM
Yes right, but WHY ?
I mean do they feel challenged by religions that are not among us anymore - Ra the sun god ?
Just to make the rest of the world angry at them for their defiling of world wonders ?
I just think most of them are badly educated, with no chance of a personal future. Such people are easy to persuade and indoctrinate, especially when they are young and dumb.
In the long run only good education and knowledge of history will lead to a solution. Until then ...
Its not the stuff "cherry picked" from the Koran that worries me, its the stuff their own damn leaders say that worries me! I'll pass by all the mundane anti-semite, and anti-female stuff and get to the good stuff...
Yea Ahmadinejad wants to bring about the second coming. A second coming that if you read what these Twelvers believe requires the Islamic nations to get their butts kicked first by the "forces of evil".
Yea I would be worried if Pat Robertson was trying to get a nuke too.
Bingo! Now we hit the nail on the head, and that is less in regards to the actual religion but more in regards to personal greed and zealotry. Something with Dinnerjacket possesses in spades. He also prays for the second coming, because it's probably the only way he'll be able to fight America on a level ground... :haha:
Religion is only a mask used by people for their own faults and failings, it could be Islam, it could be Christianity, it could be Hindus or Sikhs. It's all the same. There have been plenty of Christian leaders who have committed acts that Dinnerjacket can just dream about, likewise plenty of leaders of plenty of religions that have done things in the name of God.
I shall use a favourite publication of GT, Der Spiegel which agrees with me in many aspects:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/following-divine-orders-violence-in-the-name-of-god-a-467489.html
Religious violence and hatred is not a purely Muslim thing.
Skybird
07-12-12, 06:03 AM
I really would like to know why they do such things :nope:
:dead:
That is a very difficult question, eh? You really cannot imagine it, not to mention: link it to their religious rules, eh?
It is the same reason why some young earth creationists claim that every fossile found and dated to an era before 6000 years, has been formed by God to appear as being older, but has been made 6000 years ago for sure and then being placed by God 6000 years ago. It is the same reason why Christians read: you shall not have golden idols, you shall not have other gods beside of me. It is the same intention that such acts have had in Islam since 1000 years and longer: to rewrite and/or deny any history that took place before Muhammad, and thus is "unislamic". It is about destroying false idols that distract the faithful from the only truth and the only god there is. It is to delete anything and to kill anyone who is questioning the authority of Islam, Allah, and Muhammad by it's mere existence.
Get a warm milk with some honey in it, that should cheer you up. Reality is tough at times and so awfully uncooperative, and to realise these harsh things must be a cold and shocking experience. :Kaleun_Sleep:
Skybird
07-12-12, 06:08 AM
Religious violence and hatred is not a purely Muslim thing.
Would you care to compare, empirically the present state of things regarding persecution of Muslims in the west and persecution of non-Muslims in Muslim countries?
Probably not. Because you probably have a vague feeling that the empirical relation is not in support of your relativization attempt.
Jimbuna
07-12-12, 06:52 AM
Yubba was thrown into the brig because he posted a photo, that he have posted before and removed by one of the moderators. Not because of some link.
It's better to link to a page/photo and give a warning, so the one who click on the link is warned.
Markus
He was not brigged initially, I gave him a ten point infraction and the opportunity to remove the offending photo himself.
It was his failure to comply then a further offending photo that triggered the brigging.
In hindsight perhaps I should have brigged him at the beginning but I chose to give him the afore mentioned opportunity.
The rest is history.
Tribesman
07-12-12, 07:00 AM
That is a very difficult question, eh?
Its a very simple question.
The real answer is..... Those few fundamentalist pillocks are absolutely nuts.
Your answer is .....its the mooseleems they are all out to get us they are all crazy round them up or run for the hills, I haz de trew troof.
I do love the way Sky again went off on one which again manages tocompletely contradicts some of his other claims in this very same topic. plus throws in a whole new level of flat out hypocracy which further illustrates how his hatred has blinded him:smug:
Pure ignorance is bliss and it is well beyond a list:rotfl2:
Would you care to compare, empirically the present state of things regarding persecution of Muslims in the west and persecution of non-Muslims in Muslim countries?
Probably not. Because you probably have a vague feeling that the empirical relation is not in support of your relativization attempt.
Bosnia:
"200,000 people were killed, 12,000 of them children, up to 50,000 women were raped, and 2.2 million were forced to flee their homes."
Germany:
Bosphorus serial murders
India:
The Gujarat riots officially led to the death of 1,044 people, 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus. Human Rights Watch puts the death toll at higher figures, with 2000 deaths, mostly with attacks against Muslims by Hindu mobs.
Kosovo:
Operation Horseshoe
Nigeria:
Yelwa Massacre
Quite honestly, I see little difference between Muslim radicals calling for a jihad against the west and radical westerners calling for the destruction of all things Muslim. They're both just as bad as each other.
Catfish
07-12-12, 07:45 AM
This link posted by Obereon is really a good one, so once more:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/following-divine-orders-violence-in-the-name-of-god-a-467489.html
Read it.
So the Taliban destroy monuments to wipe out history, who would have thunk.
I still blame it on bad or no education, which does not contradict the sentence above.
Maybe instead of allowing all kinds of religions, we should ban them - all.
So the Taliban destroy monuments to wipe out history, who would have thunk.
I still blame it on bad or no education, which does not contradict the sentence above.
Maybe instead of allowing all kinds of religions, we should ban them - all.
IIRC Hitler ordered a similar thing done to monuments, and the Soviets rewrote the history books every time a new leader came to power. As Ju_88s sig says "We all, at some point, deny the truth in favor of a lie that feels better." and to be fair, what is truth to some is a lie to others. Points of view and all that.
Banning all religions won't stop this kind of thing from happening though, it'll just carry on under a different name, through politics or through society. You can't eradicate that part of humanity, alas.
Skybird
07-12-12, 08:31 AM
Bosnia:
"200,000 people were killed, 12,000 of them children, up to 50,000 women were raped, and 2.2 million were forced to flee their homes."
Germany:
Bosphorus serial murders
India:
The Gujarat riots officially led to the death of 1,044 people, 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus. Human Rights Watch puts the death toll at higher figures, with 2000 deaths, mostly with attacks against Muslims by Hindu mobs.
Kosovo:
Operation Horseshoe
Nigeria:
Yelwa Massacre
Quite honestly, I see little difference between Muslim radicals calling for a jihad against the west and radical westerners calling for the destruction of all things Muslim. They're both just as bad as each other.
You set up links to civil wars for the most, and war-like action. Well, I was thinkign about the every-day violence´and/or crime and/or discmrination in the streets of ordsinary countries.
For the war scenarios. I simply refer to the genocides against Christians in Sudan/Darfur (most fo the 300.000 massacred until 2008 were Chriostians), and Nigeria (its not just the Boko Haram, many Muslims sects make hunt on Christians and Christian villages there, demanding Nigeria to become a fully Muslim state). In Pakistan. Afghjanistan. Iraq. And the progroms run in Egypt. Iran. Occassionally: Turkey.I remind of the the assassination of Christain rpiest on the streets in egypt. Turkey. Algeria. Tunisia. The systemtic daily supression/discrimination of and exlcusion from the law for infidel communities in Turkey. Syria. Saudia Arabia. egypt. Libya. Tunisia. Marocco. Afghanistan. Pakistan. Iran. Iraq. I refer to the stream of Jewish refugees fleeing Muslim mobbying in Rotterdam. Malmö. Copenhagen. And apparanetly a hundred cities scattered across England. Germany. Netherlands. Denmark. Sweden. I refer to the bending of the laws on behalf of Muslim interests and Muslim criminal perpetrators. The banning of infidel culture in Muslim countries while Wetsern countries are engaged in limitng freedom of tho9ught and speech, and allowing moree and more moften exceptions in the law on behalf of Shariah law. I refer to the huge death toll caused by Muslim terrorism worldwide, day by day, every week, ever ymonth, every year.
When was the last Imam stabbed to death oin the streets of Edinburgh or Cologne? When was the last mosque assembly stormed and attacked by a Christian or Jewish mob? When was the last time you had a week of Jewish bomb plotters trying to blow up Muslims in the street? When was the last time you heared Jerws and Chriostzian in Muslimc o****ries demanding to be exlcuded from this or that law of the country?
I do not even mention the many acts of cruelty against women being seen as disobedient or uncooperative when being assaulted by some Muslims husband or "man", or simply get raped and be held responsible for it.
I also must tell you that the German serial killings, 12 victims in ten years, was done by Nazi rightwingers and thus rates as terror (or crime, as some would prefer). These m,urders were not cvarried out on behalf of a west5ern government. Christian religion. Any socially accepted ideology. But the violence I talk of above, is covered by the Quran and Muhammad, is even demanded and called for. The Bosnia war was a war between Serbs and Bosnians. Wetsern powers were not involved on behalf of the Serbs, nor was the Catholic or Protestant church. Regarding India you may waqnt to level that story you quote against the Kashmir terror, and the death toll caused by Muslim terrorism in India over the years. Again, this is nothign that has to do anythign with Westerupoean nations. The churches. The Jews.
Compare the level of crime, discrimination, intolerance, supüression, of Jews and Chriostians in Libya, Egypt, Saudi arabaia, Syria. Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and compare that with the supression of Muslims, crimes, violence, hate directed tat them, progroms and actiosn carried out against them, in WetsEuropean and Northamerican countries.
And if then yoiu want to tlel me that Wetsern nations treat "their Muslims" as bad as Muslim natiosn treat Jews and Christians, then I really cannot help you and must call you a hopeless case.
On some aspects, this site does a useful numerical count.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
And especially the links to stories on the right side have some thigns to say: individual stories form the daily news that in their mass really tell something. Show me that christians and Jews make so much noise in Muslim countries!
It does not compare. It just does not compare.
Skybird
07-12-12, 08:39 AM
Maybe instead of allowing all kinds of religions, we should ban them - all.
Exactly. Im saying this since - since how long...? But of the three desert dogmas, currently Islam is by far the loudest yelling, the one causing the biggest stirr, and doing the most of rioting and mobbing. From media presence, Islam is the strongest relgion in the West - several times as omnipresent as Chroszt6ain chruches and Jews together. There are many days I do not read about the latter in the news. But every day I read several different issues about Muslims in the West complaining again about soemthing in the West, and useful idiots in the left-leaning German feuilleton assisting them, keeping the issue alive even on the few days when Muslims do not complain about something (rare, but occassionally there is such a day).
Pat Condell: When you want to get rid of Islam, you need to get rid of all religions of the desert. - Right he is. Fundamentalism in religion always is bad. And when a wholew concpet of any ideology is fundamentalistic by essence and nature, this is even worse, sicne it makes any moderation and reformation a heresy, an abberation from the basic rule. And that is where the problem lies with Islam.
You set up links to civil wars for the most, and war-like action. Well, I was thinkign about the every-day violence´and/or crime and/or discmrination in the streets of ordsinary countries.
For the war scenarios. I simply refer to the genocides against Christian in Sudan/Darfur, and Nigeria. In Pakistan. Afghjanistan. Iraq. And the progroms run in Egypt. Iran. Occassionally: Turkey.I remind of the the assassination of Christain rpiest on the streets in egypt. Turkey. Algeria. Tunisia. The systemtic daily supression/discrimination of and exlcusion from the law for infidel communities in Turkey. Syria. Saudia Arabia. egypt. Libya. Tunisia. Marocco. Afghanistan. Pakistan. Iran. Iraq. I refer to the stream of Jewish refugees fleeing Muslim mobbying in Rotterdam. Malmö. Copenhagen. And apparanetly a hundred cities scattered across England. Germany. Netherlands. Denmark. Sweden. I refer to the bending of the laws on behalf of Muslim interests and Muslim criminal perpetrators. The banning of infidel culture in Muslim countries while Wetsern countries are engaged in limitng freedom of tho9ught and speech, and allowing moree and more moften exceptions in the law on behalf of Shariah law. I refer to the huge death toll caused by Muslim terrorism worldwide, day by day, every week, ever ymonth, every year.
When was the last Imam stabbed to death oin the streets of Edinburgh or Cologne? When was the last mosque assembly stormed and attacked by a Christian or Jewish mob? When was the last time you had a week of Jewish bomb plotters trying to blow up Muslims in the street? When was the last time you heared Jerws and Chriostzian in Muslimc o****ries demanding to be exlcuded from this or that law of the country?
I do not even mention the many acts of cruelty against women being seen as disobedient or uncooperative when being assaulted by some Muslims husband or "man", or simply get raped and be held responsible for it.
I also must tell you that the German serial killings, 12 victims in ten years, was done by Nazi rightwingers and thus rates as terror (or crime, as some would prefer). These m,urders were not cvarried out on behalf of a west5ern government. Christian religion. Any socially accepted ideology. But the violence I talk of above, is covered by the Quran and Muhammad, is even demanded and called for. The Bosnia war was a war between Serbs and Bosnians. Wetsern powers were not involved on behalf of the Serbs, nor was the Catholic or Protestant church. Regarding India you may waqnt to level that story you quote against the Kashmir terror, and the death toll caused by Muslim terrorism in India over the years. Again, this is nothign that has to do anythign with Westerupoean nations. The churches. The Jews.
Compare the level of crime, discrimination, intolerance, supüression, of Jews and Chriostians in Libya, Egypt, Saudi arabaia, Syria. Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and compare that with the supression of Muslims, crimes, violence, hate directed tat them, progroms and actiosn carried out against them, in WetsEuropean and Northamerican countries.
And if then yoiu want to tlel me that Wetsern nations treat "their Muslims" as bad as Muslim natiosn treat Jews and Christians, then I really cannot help you and must call you a hopeless case.
On some aspects, this site does a useful numerical count.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
And especially the links to stories on the right side have some thigns to say: individual stories form the daily news that in their mass really tell something. Show me that christians and Jews make so much noise in Muslim countries!
It does not compare. It just does not compare.
Call me what you want to call me Skybird, a hopeless case if you must.
You link to that website a lot, and it certainly tells one side of the story, that's true, and that side of the story makes good headlines.
I'm not trying to say that Muslims are all innocent and holy, what I'm trying to say is that Muslims and Christians alike are exactly the same, they both have their normal worshippers and they have their extremists.
We came out of the era of having religion as a government in Europe and the west a few hundred years ago, the Middle East hasn't. I would love for them to undergo the sort of transformation that Turkey went through during the Ataturk years (and is now sliding back from) but that's not likely to happen. So we get religious governments who are, to be honest, a greater threat than religious extremists, no matter what religion they are.
I worry when I see far-right Christian senators in America, and some of the things that have been said by American politicians, which has lead to things like fire-bombing of Mosques and abortion clinics because some people are sheep, and like sheep they get scared and follow whatever has the loudest voice, which in this case turns out to be a wolf.
The trouble is, Skybird, and I think that this is what we're falling over here, is that while you equate Muslim extremism to be a direct result of their religion, I equate it to be the result of a religion taken in the wrong manner. It would be quite easy to work up people in the west into a crusade against Muslims, to take an entire cross section of society and denounce it as evil, it is easier in fact to do that than to come to the conclusion that the religion has nothing to do with it, and it's the people that are the problem.
It's been done before, all Jews are rich, all Blacks are thieves, all Eastern Europeans are benefit thieves, all Germans are Nazis, all Russians are Commies, all Italians are cowards, etc, etc, etc. It's easy to do, and even easier when you are in an armed conflict with people of that description, but if all Muslims are religious extremists, then why after 9/11 did several prominent American Muslims condemn the attack? Fearful of their lives perhaps? Fair enough, I can see how that could be put, but what of Yusuf al-Qaradawi, or the leaders of Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Palestine, Egypt, Iran (of all people) and even the spiritual leader of Hamas, ALL of them condemned the attacks of 9/11. Now, they are all Muslims, two of them are quite important Muslims with controversial views, and by the rule of law which prevails amongst the mindset of those who run the 'Religion of Peace' website, this means that they are all Muslim radicals, so why on Earth are they condemning an attack which killed over three thousand 'infidels'?
Radicals will always have a louder voice than normal people, that is why there are so many anti-Muslim and anti-Christian websites around the internet, that is why people think that all Americans are Red-necks, and all Arabs are religious extremists. As always, ALWAYS in life, the idiots ruin it for those who just want to get along in life.
You call me a lost cause, well, Skybird, I put it to you that you are no different to the radical Imams that preach hatred of Christians.
I have a lot of respect for you as an intelligent person, but I find your hatred against an entire group of people for the actions of what IS a minority in the grand scheme of things both unsettling and frightening, as frightening as the hatred that minority has of us.
Herr_Pete
07-12-12, 09:43 AM
We are forced to concentrate on the moronic minority because the silent majority lacks a backbone.
We are forced to concentrate on the moronic minority because the silent majority lacks a backbone.
Alas this is true, or perhaps they do not consider the moronic-minority to be as much of a threat as some people make them out as. Consider that in the streets of Britain you are far, far, far more likely to be stabbed for your mobile phone than you are to be stabbed because you're the wrong religion.
I think that speaks volumes about the true problems facing the western world in the 21st century.
Buddahaid
07-12-12, 10:10 AM
The only problem I see with any faith is it is backed by the God of choice and there is no compromise from that position and therefore no peace.
Herr_Pete
07-12-12, 10:27 AM
Alas this is true, or perhaps they do not consider the moronic-minority to be as much of a threat as some people make them out as. Consider that in the streets of Britain you are far, far, far more likely to be stabbed for your mobile phone than you are to be stabbed because you're the wrong religion.
I think that speaks volumes about the true problems facing the western world in the 21st century.
I'm just happy to know that Muslim extremists in Scotland are attacked while they are still on fire :D
(one of incident here but always good to know)
The only problem I see with any faith is it is backed by the God of choice and there is no compromise from that position and therefore no peace.
This is a problem, yes, although I think it depends less upon the faith than it does on the person involved in the situation, but yes, it does lead to long term animousity between zealous groups of the involved faiths. However, the problem comes when you tar ALL members of a faith with the same brush, that they are ALL zealots who seek the destruction of the opposite faith.
It would be akin to saying that all Christians are members of the Westboro baptist church.
I'm just happy to know that Muslim extremists in Scotland are attacked while they are still on fire :D
(one of incident here but always good to know)
:haha: Yes, and this gives an indication to the IQ level of these extremists that they would actually consider fighting the Scottish... :03:
Herr_Pete
07-12-12, 10:32 AM
:haha: Yes, and this gives an indication to the IQ level of these extremists that they would actually consider fighting the Scottish... :03:
I don't think it will ever be a major issue up these parts anyway. We have had a religious war for hundreds of years and they even have football teams.
Takeda Shingen
07-12-12, 10:33 AM
Banning all religions won't stop this kind of thing from happening though, it'll just carry on under a different name, through politics or through society. You can't eradicate that part of humanity, alas.
I've said before that the problem is not religion. The problem is people. Man has always striven to dominate his fellow man. Religion is but one of the banners that he waves to rally others in that persuit. Remove it, and it will be replaced by another. Look at the Soviets. They cut religion out of the picture. That didn't stop people from dying, and in record numbers.
I don't think it will ever be a major issue up these parts anyway. We have had a religious war for hundreds of years and they even have football teams.
:har::har::har::har::har::up:
And yes, Tak, spot on. :yep:
Skybird
07-12-12, 11:24 AM
Call me what you want to call me Skybird, a hopeless case if you must.
You link to that website a lot, and it certainly tells one side of the story, that's true, and that side of the story makes good headlines.
I'm not trying to say that Muslims are all innocent and holy, what I'm trying to say is that Muslims and Christians alike are exactly the same, they both have their normal worshippers and they have their extremists.
Sorry, this is not true if said this way. Imagine a sxdecond Jesus lived for real (I share some of the doubts, but it is possible he existed for real). And imagine for a moment that what we know about his preachings, is transported more correctly than incorrectly by the bible (mind you, they started to wrtie about Jesuus not before 70 years after his was claimed to have died). Than you have, more or less, a preaching that serves little for the purpose of esxcusing war, slaughter and murdering, conquest, taking prey, anmd abuse. It is true that you can also find the occaisonal quote by Jesus that gives hiom anything but a good name, but the general image of what he said, is not that bad, but is self-reflecting, and relfecting the concept of deity as was present until then in Judaism. The semron on the mount hardly can be absued for excusing war and violence, intolerance and hate with it. And it does not reallyx matter whether Jesus indeed has lived, or not. If he did not, what then is claimed he should have said still holds its ground and icnludes some wisdom and insight, indepednetly fromt he nature of the one who said it first, or wrote it down first. For the content of the sermon on themount, it simply dores not matter who said it, and whthewr it is true historic recording, or just a writer'S imagination - it is what it is independently from that question
Now take Muhammad. The question whether he indeed has lived, for some also is not beyond doubt. However, take what he said, and what is said he should have done and how he lived his life. What Muhammad said, does not compare to what Jesus said, not at all. There is the call for violence, there is the call for war and conquest, the call for subjugation and intolerance, the call for submissve females and slavery of the infidels, there is the call for hate and ongoing fight until Islam - Muhammad, that is - rules all. All while he just copied Jewish - and probably also some Chriostzain lithrugy and concepots, and chnaged and distored them to make them look dfferent and serve his purpose. And hios purose was: justifying his oingoing quest for power and control, unifying his army by wiping out criticism and objection to him by making such opinions a heresy: by claiming that he speaks himself on behalf of a god and is announcing the will of god. And on heresy - and apostacy, for totalitarian'S sake - is death penalty.
How do you dare to compare Jesus' and Muhammad's teaching? I am no believer, you know that, I do not declare Jesus words as holy and divine, I see them as metaphors that try to transcend life ins uch a wa that we can find it easier to get along with it with fewer conflict. My approach on Jesus is pragmatic, and philosophic, not religious. How do you comare the preachings of Jesus to that of Muhammad? How can you claim they gave fundaments to the same kind of relgions? They didn't.
After Paul, and other self-interested ursupators of influenc ein Chriostian communities, the chrch indeed turned into a tyrant acting with great barbarism and fantical mercilessness. That'S why I am so bitterly against leaving it the freedom to ever gain pltical powers again. We have seen what religions do when they are given the opporutnity to live out their real inner nature. But the church did so in violation of what the christ has taught. Jesus cannot be used to excuse the excesses of the inquisition, and later crusades, the chruch'S tyranny in europe over centuries. The fundamentalism of the relgious organisation - is in violation of what Jesus taught.
Muhammad, on the other hand, demanded the oveall violence, he was using relgion only as a tool to control the masses, that'S why I say Islam is more a poltical ideology than a religious one. The war against everybody, the claim to dominate everybody - it is the very basis of Islam'S teachings, from all beginning on. The viloence that thus is seen from the side of Islam, the level of iontolerance, the hate, the aggressiveness, the supremacist mindset - this is a form of funda,mentlaism like the church showed in past times, but this fundaemtnalsim in Islam is in confomrity witzh the basi teachings of the the central figure, Muhammad. Different to Jesus, Muihammad does not get violated or abused to justify it. He gets followed.
Ridley Scott made a nice filom with "Kingdom of Heavens, and there are some scenes with really good words spooen, worth to be quoted. In one scene, the princess descriobes the difference between Islam and Chrsinaty stunningly short, and still with profound insight, she says: "Jesus says: decide! Muhammad says: submit!"
The difference between both, is immense. You are wrong, Oberon.
We came out of the era of having religion as a government in Europe and the west a few hundred years ago, the Middle East hasn't. I would love for them to undergo the sort of transformation that Turkey went through during the Ataturk years (and is now sliding back from) but that's not likely to happen. So we get religious governments who are, to be honest, a greater threat than religious extremists, no matter what religion they are.
What...? I prefer a military government in Pakistan, Turkey or Egypt anytime. Have you noted how jciely the govenrment in Tunisia is doing? They are a so-claimed "moderate fundamentalist" party that gets applauded by the West (when there is time somebody must expalion to me what that should be: moderate fundamentalism...). But in fact they left the dirty work of harassing society and pushing fundamentlaism in the streets to another group that indeed is evenb more openyl fundamentlaist. They let them do - and when the damage is done, they half-heartedly coindmen them, and leave the untouched. That gives them the respect by the West for "fighting against fundamentalism", whiole still pushign forward the fundamentalist agenda.
And in Islam, the fundamentalist agenda IS Islam's agenda.
You can expect to see the same happening in Egypt. In Libya, it also has begun. The same will happen inj Syria. And as you alöraedy said, Turkey is in full swing back into the dark time before Attatürk, Erdoghan knows very well how to play the keyboard in order to deceive the EU.
I worry when I see far-right Christian senators in America, and some of the things that have been said by American politicians, which has lead to things like fire-bombing of Mosques and abortion clinics because some people are sheep, and like sheep they get scared and follow whatever has the loudest voice, which in this case turns out to be a wolf.
The trouble is, Skybird, and I think that this is what we're falling over here, is that while you equate Muslim extremism to be a direct result of their religion, I equate it to be the result of a religion taken in the wrong manner.
I have a basic issue with religion, because part of its de criptiuon that it wnats the depending, non-thinlking, non-independent follower, else it cannot exist and enjoy priviliges. As Abbey said, "God" is the sound people make when they became too lazy to think by themselves. I hgope I have - once again - described in the opening paragraphs why extremism and violence and hate still have a different origin and status in Christzianity and Islam. And why I call Muhammeddanism, to label it more precisely, as funda,mentlaist and extremsit from all beginning on, while thinking violence and hate is not the called-for action in Jesus' teachings, but a perverting of what he said.
It would be quite easy to work up people in the west into a crusade against Muslims, to take an entire cross section of society and denounce it as evil, it is easier in fact to do that than to come to the conclusion that the religion has nothing to do with it, and it's the people that are the problem.
Sure,, but I am not into that business. I am even not attacking "Muslims per se". So often I have made it clear that my primary target is the ideology, becaswue that is what does the brainwashing, that is what motivates people and causes actions. Most people ignore it when I say that, finding it more comfotrtable to attack me over being racist towards a people than about being critical about an ideology'S content.
It's been done before, all Jews are rich, all Blacks are thieves, all Eastern Europeans are benefit thieves, all Germans are Nazis, all Russians are Commies, all Italians are cowards, etc, etc, etc. It's easy to do, and even easier when you are in an armed conflict with people of that description, but if all Muslims are religious extremists, then why after 9/11 did several prominent American Muslims condemn the attack?
Again, once again I say this: whether a Muslim is a Muslim to me is not an issue of self-.descriptiuon or claim, but an issue to what degree he obeys the teachings of Muhammad. This is the only authority, the only criterion that decides this. I have told you know how I see that ideology, and I do not buy it when somebody takes it and sitorts it to gloos over it in order to claim he is Muslim while following it, but following it were good. Sorry, I fell for that trick myself many yars ago, and I needed years - YEARS - to get iot sorted out and getting former opinion of mine with harsh realities I experienced into conformity. And that was only possible at the price of realsing that my former - friendly - opinion about islam - were wrong. When I stopped taking Islamic sciurptiure as metaphoirc and partially invalid, it all fell into placer, and sinc e then it all makes sense. Unfortunately in a resulting poricture that is anything but friendly.
Muslim lobby spokesmean will tell you what they know you want to hear. Many others will tell you about 9/11 what you want to hear in order to avoid you becoming angry or alienated. Some meanjt it seriosu when regretting the loss of life. But I claim a majority of the global ummah celebrated. Som ein sielcne, others ba dancing in the streets - of which we also have seen pictures, if you remember.
My grandfather was in the Wehrmacht, both of them, and both lived throught the invasion of Russia. My mother'S father onc etold me, that in the early m,onths, he could stroll off in a tiny village and visit an orthodox church where the monks did this wonderful music, which I like to liosten to at times myself, Gregorian chants. And soemtiomes, when his unit entered a new village, the famrers came with friendly faces, and offered bread and salt. But do you really think they really meant that from the bottom of their heart? They were afraid, and feared for their lives! OF COURSE they behaved friendly, and welcomed the invaders - what else should they have done?
Don'T believe anything a Muslim spokesman tells you. When it comes to explainign Islam, Imams and Muslim group speaker sare the most untrustwporthy soruces you can listen too. You could as well ask the pope about an objective, sober assessement of the role of the church for human history.
Fearful of their lives perhaps? Fair enough, I can see how that could be put, but what of Yusuf al-Qaradawi, or the leaders of Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Palestine, Egypt, Iran (of all people) and even the spiritual leader of Hamas, ALL of them condemned the attacks of 9/11.
I do not judge wjo emant it ral and who m aybe not. But I tell you tjhis: Ahmadinejadh fell out with the Mullahs in Teheran becaseu he behaved so stupid and by boasting and provoking the West in media he attracted attention to the nuclear weapon program that the mullahs had hoped to kept hidden from the spotlights for longer time.
Now, they are all Muslims,
Are they? Muslim is who acts and decides oin basis of M uhammad'S commands. Not birth, not skin colkour decides about that, but only Quran, plus Hadith and Sharia.
two of them are quite important Muslims with controversial views, and by the rule of law which prevails amongst the mindset of those who run the 'Religion of Peace' website, this means that they are all Muslim radicals, so why on Earth are they condemning an attack which killed over three thousand 'infidels'?
Because it gave them a bad name, perhaps? It drew attention to where they do not want it. I said it many times: Islam no longer tries to take over the West by war or by violence, ti cannot win that. It does so by demograohics. By changine the hsoting natiosn from within. By cultural reporgramming. It is a very smart way of attacking the West, and it cokmes at the additonal bonus that the West can only defend itself against that when behaving really nasty, which gives it a bad name again, letting it fall back from that option even more in intimidation. Not to mention that as long as you do not relaise that you are under attack you do not see any need to defend. And when the need is evident, than many peoppole still refuse to stand up and defend their home and their freedom. You rfeer to 9/11 qupotes here, some poages earlier I copied some quotes by Muslim representaives, politicians as well as clerics, making it clear that the West is under attack. Do you dismiss all that as nonsense, when the relaity you can see in society are supporting these claims?
You call me a lost cause, well, Skybird, I put it to you that you are no different to the radical Imams that preach hatred of Christians.
If you think I act by their motives and by their logic, than I am right in thinkling guys like yiou are alost cause, becasue you have not understood anything of what I say since years at all.
I have a lot of respect for you as an intelligent person, but I find your hatred against an entire group of people for the actions of what IS a minority in the grand scheme of things both unsettling and frightening, as frightening as the hatred that minority has of us.
I am not about hate, I am about factual arguments that I made time and again that simply speak against an ideology that is the issue here. My stance in no way compares to what the Nazis tried with the Jews. I have spend half of my life to form my view of Isdlam, and I had theortteical as well as practical input, here as well as in foreign, Islamic countries. And this claim that is som often made and that once again yoiu repoeat here, that the "raidcals" are a mionority - that simply is not true. The socalled moderates (which interestingly do surprisingly little to keep the "radicals" in check and become lid when it is about special rights for Islam - in schools, in public places, in legislation - do their best to hinder police cooperation and isolation of fanatical elements, theyx also allow "radical" spokesmen and radical organisations to speak on their behalf) are not the maionstream group in Islam, beleive that or not. They are a minority. Not only globally, but also in our own home countries. Most of them sit still and silent, but are deeply conswrvative in their thimking and feeling, and are loyal to the Shariah. The mainstremja Islam, is not the moderate minority you pout your hope into (wrongly), but the mainstream of Islam is what yiou call the fundamental Isdlam. The one basing on Shariah law. And that is no surprise, when one has understood that you cannot arbiotrarily cut away all you do n ot like, and what remains from Quran and Shariah then still is "Islam". It is heresy, apostacy.
I know you do not like beign told that, since it leaves your thinking model then powerless in the dust, for you would need to realsie that then Wetser intentions and ideas are helpless in the fac eof htis challenge. Like you, many people and evben laders flee into wishful thinking, and self-deception, relaity-denial, illusions.
But the beast is still there. And it comes closer. Maybe you will still be well off (if oyu make it thorugh the debt crisis and European troubles). But the chilkdren of your chikldren will live in a Europoe where many countries will be predominantly Muslim by population. And you can read from the exmaplke set when Islam sporead from arabia talong the North Wetsern coat, as well as to the Niorth and inti Persia and India, they always took the densly settled hostspots, the cities, first. Today, that are places like Malmö, or Rotterdam, or Cologne. And such places today are places with extremely big troubles. From there, they then took the surrounding countries once they had become strong enoigh in humbers ahgain. Today, that is not meaning an army, but demography: birth rates. Franc ewill have a predominantly Muslim population somewhere aorund the middle of this century. Germany will be like that some time later, somewhere it the second half of the century. Converts icnrase in number, Public educaiton at schools will mturn Muslim. Legislation will. Police will. Politics will. Maybe therwe will social riots and breakdowns over the coial system collapsing. Ypou see when Wetsern women have biorth rates below 2.2, the population is shrinking. And when Muslims have birth rates greater than 2.2 (many have a 3 a 4 or a 5 before the decimal), then they are increasing. When you know that most Muslim migrants today do not contribute to the social system but live at its cost, while at the same time native middle and upper class families have birthn rates below 2.2 and thus few and fewer net payers get born to pay for the social system (and so many other things) - well, if so you know there are decreasing net payers and increasing net receivers, and decreasing social upper class and increasing social underclass - then you know that you have a meeting with an iceberg.
Send the band on deck.
Tribesman
07-12-12, 12:05 PM
On some aspects, this site does a useful numerical count.
Another link, same old site of kooky nuts with an agenda of hatred(just like the fundamentalists ain't they).
I do like their list of muslim attacks though, its laughable that anyone can take that site seriously.
a muslim killed another muslim, a muslim killed two other muslims, some muslims killed some other muslims....its the muslims I tell ya just look at our list:doh:
I am not about hate, I am about factual arguments that I made time and again
wow, isn't that from Breiviks manifesto.
Come to think about it didn't sky agree with brieviks "reasoning".
Maybe some link can be found in them both exactly posting the same sources again and again and making the same "factual" arguements.
I don't think it will ever be a major issue up these parts anyway. We have had a religious war for hundreds of years and they even have football teams.
Of all the days to bring that up.:03:
So are you one of the ones celebrating the religion today or one of the ones protesting the religion today.
Bloody scottish/irish/english/british muslims, its gotta be muslims you see as its always and the muslims apparently.
Herr_Pete
07-12-12, 12:19 PM
Another link, same old site of kooky nuts with an agenda of hatred(just like the fundamentalists ain't they).
I do like their list of muslim attacks though, its laughable that anyone can take that site seriously.
a muslim killed another muslim, a muslim killed two other muslims, some muslims killed some other muslims....its the muslims I tell ya just look at our list:doh:
wow, isn't that from Breiviks manifesto.
Come to think about it didn't sky agree with brieviks "reasoning".
Maybe some link can be found in them both exactly posting the same sources again and again and making the same "factual" arguements.
Of all the days to bring that up.:03:
So are you one of the ones celebrating the religion today or one of the ones protesting the religion today.
Bloody scottish/irish/english/british muslims, its gotta be muslims you see as its always and the muslims apparently.
haha I just realised what day it is haha I am a lapsed catholic who keeps clear of whole thing now. It's the best option up here really. The Muslims extremists don't stand a chance against a bunch of very angry Protestants and Catholics up here lol
But the beast is still there. And it comes closer. Maybe you will still be well off (if oyu make it thorugh the debt crisis and European troubles). But the chilkdren of your chikldren will live in a Europoe where many countries will be predominantly Muslim by population
Well...if Europe does not stop immigration and will let millions and millions of Muslims in that will happen...
Such massive emigration would change face of Europe...not necessary to sharia state but the distinct European culture might be sort terraformed.
Many Europeans may not to like it and for sake of everybody EU politician should take this into consideration.
It does not really matter what % is violent or extremist the cultural impact will be there...its not matter if one likes Muslims or hate them the question is if this cultural change is acceptable to Europeans.
What Europe might look like then...see turkey now... if you like it then its cool.
...........
Tribesman
07-12-12, 12:52 PM
haha I just realised what day it is haha
I only realised as it was on the news, we don't get as many refugees coming down from the holiday as we used to.
Then again its probably cheaper for them to fly to egypt and stay in a hotel than it is to come down here.:03:
A lot
Did I compare Jesus to Mohammed? Not at all, but when you look at the Old Testament, there is enough fire and brimstone to go around for anyone. God alone knows what happened part way through the bible to cause a sudden shift from God spread fire and death on the heathens to the teachings of Jesus. Perhaps the author died and another guy wrote the ending, we'll never know. When I stated that Christians and Muslims are exactly the same, I referred, rather, to the fact that they both have their devout believers and their not so devout believers. Admittedly there's a bit more involved in the Muslim religion, however if I'm honest once upon a time there was in the Christian religion too, regular church visits, festivals and the like. You have Christian radicals and you have Muslim radicals, and the fact that we only seem to hear of the latter is simply because we live in countries that are predominantly Christian. If you were to pick up the news in Tehran, it would give you a different picture completely.
I am wrong, perhaps, on comparisons between Jesus and Muhammad, but elsewise the correlations, particularly the way the Bible has been used to justify so much death and destruction, as much as, if not more, than the Qu'ran.
What unites the Jihadists and Crusaders? Perhaps this quote:
“It is a characteristic of all movements and crusades that the psychopathic element rises to the top”
I agree there is a rise in fundamentalist governments in Egypt and Libya, and it is a concern, but it was inevitable from the start, and again, the fanatics, the lunatics get the loudest voice. I am certain that there are quite moderate Egyptian Muslims but they will be drowned out by those calling for the destruction of the Pyramids, because it's easier for people to observe the louder of the crowd than the quieter. I've found that in general though, in any government, when religion mixes with politics, it's just messy.
Getting back to Muhammad again, a quick Google search provides an almost schizophrenic selection of quotes from the Qu'ran ranging from:
“The greatest crimes are to associate another with God, to vex your father and mother, to murder your own species, to commit suicide, and to swear to lie”
to
"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Both of which can be taken out of context, and indeed, a quick google search shows that the latter quote is indeed taken out of context and presented on a website which seeks to portray "Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammads own words"
To be honest, I doubt the authenticity of some of these quotes that are said to be 'from Muhammad' and yet do not appear in any version of the Qur'an that I have seen.
If you are not attacking Muslims per se, and are instead attacking the ideology then that is understandable, but I think that you're missing the mark by a fraction in that it is not the ideology that is at fault but the human nature that has resulted in that ideology.
In quoting me there with:
It's been done before, all Jews are rich, all Blacks are thieves, all Eastern Europeans are benefit thieves, all Germans are Nazis, all Russians are Commies, all Italians are cowards, etc, etc, etc. It's easy to do, and even easier when you are in an armed conflict with people of that description, but if all Muslims are religious extremists, then why after 9/11 did several prominent American Muslims condemn the attack?
You missed off the other part of the question which puts:
Fearful of their lives perhaps? Fair enough, I can see how that could be put
Certainly if I were a Christian living in Iraq I would be very very quiet about my religion because of the extremists. However that would not automatically mean that every Iraqi would want to kill me, or if they did that it would always be about religion as opposed to the several hundred tons of ordinance that has littered their landscape.
When it comes to this plot to take over Europe by birth rates, perhaps it will happen, or perhaps they will just speed up the inevitable population collapse and world war sooner, it's a double edged sword and if this is their ultimate goal, it's not a particularly well thought out one.
If you think I act by their motives and by their logic, than I am right in thinkling guys like yiou are alost cause, becasue you have not understood anything of what I say since years at all.
There have been moments when we have missed connections, however I have not written you off as a 'whacko Nazi nutjob' like some others have because I know that you possess a good intellect. Perhaps my words are a bit harsh in judgement, however if one were to go on first impressions, then you do not present a particularly appealing one, and it has done little for you to further the message you have put forth outside of the select crowd that already believes that which you already do.
The thing is, Skybird, if there is a great population boom horde coming from the east, then what exactly is the average Subsim forum member meant to do about it? Honestly? Is the Brevik solution the only solution?
You and I both know that the politics of the countries we live in have long since disconnected from the people that they serve. We no longer feature in the running of the country, we exist as peons, as pawns to be milked by the government and then discarded when we no longer serve our purpose.
Any uprisings are put down by the police, and any protests are ignored.
There will come a dark time in the near future, but I do not think that it will be Islam that causes it. It may benefit from it, or it may find itself driven out of Europe once again in a wave of xenophobia. Either way is quite possible at this moment in time. But dark times will come, and I think that we can all feel apprehension at what is to come as we know that the current situation, the current lifestyle is completely unsustainable.
I do see where you're coming from Skybird, although I think that you may have fallen far, far, far into the trap of the boy who cried wolf and no-one is listening to you any more. Certainly there is a great portion of this forum that tires of seeing threads with the term 'Islam, Muslim, or Jihad' in them, and that is how it is, if you expose a person to something over and over and over again then they lose interest in it. Deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan no longer create the headlines that they used to because we're used to it now. Sad? Yes, but there's little that can be done about it.
In the meantime, I think it best if we agree that we agree on some matters and disagree on others, for, as I have said already, I'm not here to change your mindset, I'm not that kind of person to fight a fight that cannot be won, after all, as Sun Tzu said "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious."
Perhaps one day, when my German is better (a LOT better) and I win the lottery (lol) I can visit Germany and we can have a good sit down and debate this until the early hours, it would be quite the occasion and I do love a good chat about philosophy and the human psyche. :salute:
TLAM Strike
07-12-12, 01:53 PM
"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Both of which can be taken out of context, and indeed, a quick google search shows that the latter quote is indeed taken out of context and presented on a website which seeks to portray "Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammads own words"
To be honest, I doubt the authenticity of some of these quotes that are said to be 'from Muhammad' and yet do not appear in any version of the Qur'an that I have seen.
Not all of them come from the Koran, some come from the six Hadiths while others come from the Sunnah.
You can read all of Sura 9 here:
http://quran.com/9
It does not get any better in context... :dead:
Because it gave them a bad name, perhaps? It drew attention to where they do not want it. I said it many times: Islam no longer tries to take over the West by war or by violence, ti cannot win that. It does so by demograohics. By changine the hsoting natiosn from within. By cultural reporgramming. It is a very smart way of attacking the West, and it cokmes at the additonal bonus that the West can only defend itself against that when behaving really nasty, which gives it a bad name again, letting it fall back from that option even more in intimidation. Not to mention that as long as you do not relaise that you are under attack you do not see any need to defend. And when the need is evident, than many peoppole still refuse to stand up and defend their home and their freedom. You rfeer to 9/11 qupotes here, some poages earlier I copied some quotes by Muslim representaives, politicians as well as clerics, making it clear that the West is under attack. Do you dismiss all that as nonsense, when the relaity you can see in society are supporting these claims?
.
You see here lies you main problem...there is no great conspiracy to take over west by demography.
Some islamist may have thought about it but that is not the issue.
The issue is natural emigration that may change the face of Europe and threatens the cultural hegemony european love so much.
The issue is also the stupidity of your politicians.
Lets face it....Europeans don't like it a bit hence the rise of ex-Nazi political parties(great Israel lovers all the sudden...*&^&*^ those friends lol)
Tribesman
07-12-12, 02:16 PM
It does not get any better in context...
Yet your link supplies six different versions of each line.
Which is the correct version to place into context?
The link also has 9 different collections of differing texts.
Which translation of which of those texts is to be placed in context?
Could you for the sake of integrity of arguement compare each of those you object to with the matching passages from christian scripture?
Or is that another detail you are going to ignore like the previous flaws pointed out in your attempted reasoning?
mookiemookie
07-16-12, 09:44 AM
Whoops...
Calls from a Bahraini Sunni cleric urging President Mohamed Morsy to destroy the Giza Pyramids were issued from a parody Twitter account online, the Daily News Egypt has learned.
http://thedailynewsegypt.com/2012/07/11/another-hoax-cleric-calls-on-president-morsy-to-destroy-giza-pyramids/
I can hear it now "...well, it sounds like something they'd say, and that's good enough for me!"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2077964/The-Salafist-partys-plan-Pyramids--cover-wax.html
You can argue about importance of such proposals...but not that they had been made.
Just think medieval:haha:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2077964/The-Salafist-partys-plan-Pyramids--cover-wax.html
You can argue about importance of such proposals...but not that they had been made.
Just think medieval:haha:
Well, every Tom, Dick and Ismal has their opinion or proposal on what to do with religious objects, the Salafist party polls about 20 percent in the Egyptian parliament. It's not particularly likely to happen.
If your intention is to highlight the fact that the idea has been suggested, well, as the saying goes, opinions are like... :up:
Well, every Tom, Dick and Ismal has their opinion or proposal on what to do with religious objects, the Salafist party polls about 20 percent in the Egyptian parliament. It's not particularly likely to happen.
If your intention is to highlight the fact that the idea has been suggested, well, as the saying goes, opinions are like... :up:
20% of egyptian parliament aligned to current government....it is not some outcast fraction on political map.
Also where would you put the current egyptian government on your domestic political map?
Relax. They can't do anything to those pyramids because they don't own them. I have it on good authority (McBee) that some Egyptian guy sold Jimbunas Granddaddy the pyramids for 2 quid and a little bit of "Bob's your uncle" back in '42.
True fact. :yep:
20% of egyptian parliament aligned to current government....it is not some outcast fraction on political map.
Also where would you put the current egyptian government on your domestic political map?
Well, considering the current Egyptian government is run by the military still....
Chaos.
Well, considering the current Egyptian government is run by the military still....
Chaos.
There is some division of roles due to the fact that military is regarded as the pragmatist.They don't have "revolution guards"...at least not yet.
Tribesman
07-16-12, 03:15 PM
20% of egyptian parliament aligned to current government....
Is that the government the military council abolished a couple of weeks ago?
Is that the government the military council abolished a couple of weeks ago?
Is the the Islams led parliament that Morsi tried to reinstall against ruling of the court.
Tribesman
07-16-12, 04:57 PM
Is the the Islams led parliament that Morsi tried to reinstall against ruling of the court.
So its the parliament the military dissolved then when the military "court" made a decision.
So its a non existant government you are on about?
At least thats clear then.
So onto the other angle you tried on this non existant government.
The party you said was aligned with the other party.
They both stood against each other in the elections to that parliament that doesn't exist.
If they stand against each other in elections how are they aligned?
You could take it on to the next level, the Presidential election which might be better as the President does exist.
This party you say is aligned with the government, why did they back a different candidate if they are aligned with Morsi?
Surely if they was aligned with Morsi they wouldn't have been campaigning for Fatouh to be President.
TLAM Strike
07-16-12, 04:59 PM
There is some division of roles due to the fact that military is regarded as the pragmatist.They don't have "revolution guards"...at least not yet.
They are getting close...
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/religious-vigilantes-claim-have-killed-student-suez
:hmm2:
The party you said was aligned with the other party.
They both stood against each other in the elections to that parliament that doesn't exist.
If they stand against each other in elections how are they aligned?
You could take it on to the next level, the Presidential election which might be better as the President does exist.
This party you say is aligned with the government, why did they back a different candidate if they are aligned with Morsi?
Surely if they was aligned with Morsi they wouldn't have been campaigning for Fatouh to be President.
It is not D vs R lol.
Besides that what is your point?
They are getting close...
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/religious-vigilantes-claim-have-killed-student-suez
:hmm2:
They have every chance of getting there..regardless of those examples.
The issue is if Egypt will work toward pluralism and personal freedoms or slowly drift toward islamisation of media education and so on.
Happily voted for by parliament maintaining islamist coalition...
(i forgot they had all different candidates )
Tribesman
07-16-12, 05:48 PM
It is not D vs R lol.
Which weakens your attempt even further.
Besides that what is your point?
The point is you have no point on that score.
Which weakens your attempt even further.
The point is you have no point on that score.
Ok lets agree on that.
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