Can`t evade destroyers after kills!

[Harbinger1]

OK so what`s the secret? This happens to me every time I take out (sink) a merchant as part of a task force. I am playing with 100% realism but I have no idea as to how to evade the destroyers, so I decided to include the third person view in my difficulty settings. That was certainly easier but I only survived maybe 1 out of 4 engagements with a task force. I tried the"Hit and Run" technique and have yet gotten one kill, can`t seem to hit target past 3000 m. Are there any video tutorials as to how to evade specifically destroyers? Text tutorials will suffice but I imagine they would not be as helpful as videos. I have gotten to the point where I won`t engage Task Forces simply because of the inevitable outcome.
I don`t want to give up but I do need to know how you advanced players do it.
Thanks.:hmm2:

[THE_MASK]

OK so what`s the secret? This happens to me every time I take out (sink) a merchant as part of a task force. I am playing with 100% realism but I have no idea as to how to evade the destroyers, so I decided to include the third person view in my difficulty settings. That was certainly easier but I only survived maybe 1 out of 4 engagements with a task force. I tried the"Hit and Run" technique and have yet gotten one kill, can`t seem to hit target past 3000 m. Are there any video tutorials as to how to evade specifically destroyers? Text tutorials will suffice but I imagine they would not be as helpful as videos. I have gotten to the point where I won`t engage Task Forces simply because of the inevitable outcome.
I don`t want to give up but I do need to know how you advanced players do it.
Thanks.:hmm2:''I won`t engage Task Forces'' so you are playing like a real uboat captain imho . With IRAI mod i have to choose what targets are worth it and make sure i have a lot of depth under my sub if i decide to attack , i mean diving to scary depth and run silent and all stop and pray . Yeah its fun . If encountering a convoy try to scout it and see how many DDs are around . What side is best to attack from and escape . Do i need to fire a salvo from a long way off . What is the depth under keel . How late in the war , what equipment might they have . What upgraded equipment do i have , can use etc etc .

[Harbinger1]

I don`t mean to be rude but you do all the things you mentioned using third person? How else can you determine which side to attack from unless you are using third person.
I guess there are no video tutorials around....darn!
I was clever once though, I did follow another tanker underneath their own keel. It worked for a while until I almost ran out of battery and you know the rest.
I do hate using 3rd person camera as I feel i`m cheating...is this common among other seasoned players?
What about " hit and run " does that ever work against a task force?

All that aside I do appreciate the time you have put into your impressive Mods many of which I have activated, they have certainly enhanced my experience in SH 5.
"Good on Ya " Harbinger.

[TheDarkWraith]

Lower the difficulty settings of IRAI until you are proficient at evading. You can find the difficulty settings in \data\Scripts\AI\init.aix. Open the file with Notepad.

[Trevally.]

To attack from a long range, learn the fast 90 and fire a salvo at one target:up:

[lilpooper]

If you do decide to engage a convoy with destroyer escorts there are a couple things you can do.

First, a lot of the time one side or another will be left under defended or totally defenseless as the destroyers maneuver throughout the convoy or get distracted by pretty dolphins or whatever it is that makes them break formation. Actually I saw in a Uboat documentary that stated the destroyer escorts would often zig zag around inside of the formation and pull up along other boats to see if they needed anything, throw a carton of cigarettes or whatever so I guess its not so unrealistic. Anyways.

If you can spot a gap in a convoy, go for it. If not then attack from as far away as you're comfortable with. After I've made my attack I'll usually launch an acoustic homing torpedo at a depth of one meter so that if any hero destroyer wants to be the first on the scene to investigate they'll have that fun little present to deal with.

After that its just crash dive, deploy decoys and then either silent reverse (if the convoy is in front of me) or silent in any direction that leads directly away from the convoy.

Good luck!

[Off the Rails]

1) Go deep
2) Go slow
3) Go away

Works for me at any rate. The hard part is avoiding the temptation to crank up to the bone-shaking speed of 2 knots before the destroyers have gone. Makes you wish for a decoy of some description - a torpedo rigged to travel at about 3 kts, zigzag along its base course and sound like a submarine would be ideal.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Before even considering attacking anything with escort, my first question to myself is this:

"Can I red-line the depth gauge here?"

If the answer is "yes", you have enough dive depth to get under the older detection gear, especially if you find the thermal layer. When I am playing peek-a-boo with destroyers, diving between 160-200 meters is perfectly normal for me.

The second question I ask myself is what class of destroyer is escorting the targets. Clemson-Wickes Class (Town lend-lease) and V&W class destroyers (save the HMS Walker:huh:) I do not worry about too much. They have the older gear and turn so wide that there is plenty of opportunity to slip away. SH5 models the A and B class destroyers, too. I haven't been too impressed with them in this particular game. Tribal class and Fletcher class destroyers should not be aggroed unless it cannot be helped. They are much more challenging to lose than the former classes. They have better gear all around and are much more effective at ASW. C-class destroyers, all frigates and all Destroyer Escort classes should be avoided at all costs. All of these classes are specifically designed to kill U-boats.

Firing from long or extreme range also works very well. Trevally is 100% correct about using the fast 90 method at range. For some odd reason, the AI is less likely to hear or spot a torpedo that has been running for several minutes than one just fired. My longest ranged kill using the fast 90 is just over 9000 meters firing a spread of four torpedoes with three hits and just as many kills. The fourth torpedo just missed the screws of another target. Fast 90 works. When the destroyers start looking for you, they only go to about 4000m out from the projected torpedo path. If you are already retreating, you will still be well outside their sensor range while they blindly bang away at nothing.

[Off the Rails]

How do you know when you're below the layer? I've peeked at all the dials and I can't find a water temperature gauge anywhere.

[Hinrich Schwab]

How do you know when you're below the layer? I've peeked at all the dials and I can't find a water temperature gauge anywhere.

You don't, which is historically accurate as stated by Jürgen Oesten in an interview done back in 2006. However, it is safe to assume that anywhere between 110 to 160 meters has a thermal layer. If the water is too shallow, there will not be one. It is primarily experience and guesswork.

[BIGREG]

:salute: Hello Off the Rails

How do you know when you're below the layer? I've peeked at all the dials and I can't find a water temperature gauge anywhere.

Unfortunately, there are no controllers (dials) for temperature or other "way", like: separate electro/diesel motor timer,rpm,throttle etc...nothing) :cry:,
therefore impossible to have a temperature indicator (needles, warning light)

and i can't not make a "trick" with meshes modification with the .gr2 editor
(nothing turn,just up/down movement)

Sorry

[LemonA]

We gain nothing from simple rules like dive to 200m, shoot from 4000+ meters, do this and then that because the enemy (= TDW & TDW's IRAI) can prepare for that easily.

Before any war patrol the commander should know ca. 10 evasive manoeuvres by heart. They cannot be explained here because for one thing is clear: evasive manoeuvres of u-boats against destroyers are confidential things and top secret ;)

[Sartoris]

Before even considering attacking anything with escort, my first question to myself is this:

"Can I red-line the depth gauge here?"

If the answer is "yes", you have enough dive depth to get under the older detection gear, especially if you find the thermal layer. When I am playing peek-a-boo with destroyers, diving between 160-200 meters is perfectly normal for me.

The second question I ask myself is what class of destroyer is escorting the targets. Clemson-Wickes Class (Town lend-lease) and V&W class destroyers (save the HMS Walker:huh:) I do not worry about too much. They have the older gear and turn so wide that there is plenty of opportunity to slip away. SH5 models the A and B class destroyers, too. I haven't been too impressed with them in this particular game. Tribal class and Fletcher class destroyers should not be aggroed unless it cannot be helped. They are much more challenging to lose than the former classes. They have better gear all around and are much more effective at ASW. C-class destroyers, all frigates and all Destroyer Escort classes should be avoided at all costs. All of these classes are specifically designed to kill U-boats.

Firing from long or extreme range also works very well. Trevally is 100% correct about using the fast 90 method at range. For some odd reason, the AI is less likely to hear or spot a torpedo that has been running for several minutes than one just fired. My longest ranged kill using the fast 90 is just over 9000 meters firing a spread of four torpedoes with three hits and just as many kills. The fourth torpedo just missed the screws of another target. Fast 90 works. When the destroyers start looking for you, they only go to about 4000m out from the projected torpedo path. If you are already retreating, you will still be well outside their sensor range while they blindly bang away at nothing.

Thanks for this advice!:salute:

Do you know if there are any tutorials that could teach me how to attack more than one target in a convoy? I managed to find some for SH4 but they were for the US submarines.

[The General]

I think there is a bug in SH5 that means AI surface vessles can remain locked on you until you save and reload the game (even with IRAI). Of course a bug like this is a game breaker (because you can't know it's happened or not unless you spend hours trying to evade, only to realise all your efforts were in vain), and that's why I don't play SH5 anymore. As it's the only half-decent WWII subsim out there, even after 4 years, it's a bit of a shame :shifty:

By-the-way, how this shows up is, when you use T.C. and sail off in any direction, you'll see an enemy vessell tracking you from several kilometers out, and when you stop, they circle in one position, forvever! Sadly, I don't think this bug was ever fixed by TDW or anybody else.

[Hinrich Schwab]

Thanks for this advice!:salute:

Do you know if there are any tutorials that could teach me how to attack more than one target in a convoy? I managed to find some for SH4 but they were for the US submarines.

For the most part, the basic tactics and techniques are interchangable between the games. I do not know which tutorials you have seen, but the only real differences are in knowing the performance of your ownship, the performance of escorts and the dud characteristics of your torpedoes. It is likely that the tutorials you saw can be applied to any SH game.

Which tutorials have you seen?

[Sartoris]

Well, there's this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAMJmegmc_Y

If I remember correctly, there are (were?) also some tutorial videos in the SH4 section of this forum, but as I said, they all focused on American submarines, so I was wondering if the different interface in the German submarines led to any different approaches.

[Off the Rails]

SH4. Must be where I got the idea of a water temperature gauge from.

[Laconic]

Well, there's this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAMJmegmc_Y

If I remember correctly, there are (were?) also some tutorial videos in the SH4 section of this forum, but as I said, they all focused on American submarines, so I was wondering if the different interface in the German submarines led to any different approaches.

That was less a tutorial and more...showing off. It does demonstrate a fast-90, though there are better videos out there for learning that technique.

Case in point, it took about five tries to get it right. ("A battleship? What a wonderful surprise!")

Edit: Let me amend that by saying that attacking more than one target is inherently dangerous. The simplest way is to find small convoys with only one escort, destroy the escort, and then go to town on the merchants. A submarine's greatest weapon is surprise. To attack multiple targets you either find a way to make sure that your torpedoes impact nearly simultaneously (as in the above video) or you sacrifice your greatest weapon at great peril. As soon as the first torpedo hits, all escorts will immediately begin searching for you and all targets will immediately alter their course from your carefully plotted attack approaches, making any further targeting increasingly dangerous.

It can be done as in the above video of attempting to acquire multiple targets in a short amount of time, or by using the fast-90 to attack two, three, four targets that enfilade themselves as they cross your bow. Due to perspective and distance, the further ships will cross your shoot bearing earlier than closer ships, even though they will all be in a row as their AOB's hit 90 (meaning the torpedoes will all impact at the same time).

[Harbinger1]

I`m not sure what the fast 90 means. Is it when your scope is 00 to target ( 90 degrees ) and torpedoes are set to fast speed?
If i`m wrong is there a video tutorial I can watch.

[StinkiePoep]

hey,

i watched this tutorial today and before, its not realy about avoiding DD"s, but its about the fast 90 (at the end) so i thought u could use it, and maybe learn also something from the "finding target method" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD3aMoZxaLI&feature=relmfu

at the end (around part 3) , he shows the fast 90 :)
fast 90 = u attack the ship on an angle of 90 degree and with fast they mean, easy and quick, (i think :) )

[Harbinger1]

Yes that`s the method I have been using. I just did`nt know that it was called the fast 90.
p.s. I just sunk The Queen Mary..it was without escort! It was a turkey shoot. I got credit for 85,000 tons with no opposition. Why no destroyer escort?? hummm!

[Jelkan]

theres this very nice bug, doesnt always work, but its hilarious

so when the DD is going over you you flank speed, when he past you you stop, sometimes he goes full speed backwards, last time i did this he rammed norway:P, think this has to be timed so he chases his own engine thinking its yours

but the easisest way to get rid of the DD's is to sink them, they dont let go of you
unless you do my previous stated bug,

when i attack a convoy is usually just fire everything currently loaded, then crashdive and silent running, all stop, DD's dont follow me most of the timeif they do i go to periscope depth and put a fish in him