Opinions, moon/cloud lighting SS's...

[Armistead]

Trying to finish up my env. mod, but need some opinion. I honestly can't recall the other env. mods, but seems many you don't get a lot of moonlight cloud reflection, so been tweaking that. Here are two different looks, some I posted before.

This was my first try, OK, but maybe too much light and maybe a lil too blue of a look, plus the light reflection is a lil strong on the sky away from the moon and not sure I like the cloud pattern. Might look better to darken clouds a tad and kill some of the blue. Away from the moon clouds may be too white, this is more of a spread look with light covering more range away from moon.


http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-12-01_104336_203.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-12-01_104119_343.jpg

Took a different approach, but here the light stays more around the moon. If the moon is on the horizon, it gives you nice visuals of ships, but the horizon darkens as the moon gets higher, as you can see by the last SS when moon is higher up, the horizon stays fairly dark. I think I like this better, maybe a lil less light....? I see a lil banding around the moon with no clouds in front of it, not sure if it's my crappy video card or not, but sure prolly tone down if I lighten it a tad..Yea, colors need a lil tweaking...


http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2004-03-02_040259_718.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2004-03-02_040400_562.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2004-03-02_040429_875.jpg


I can tweak either one, but need to pick one, so opinions please.

[Mister_Spok]

The second ones are amazing!

Will I be able to use your mod if I have TMO2.5+RSRDC+OTC1.5?

[Sailor Steve]

I'm just the opposite; I much prefer the first two. Even though it is lighter there is a cold stark feel that reminds me of what I felt like at times like that.

[U570]

I reckon both of them look fantastic. Maybe combine the two :06:. Brilliant for a first attempt :yeah:.

[stanger]

I like the first two too; we need to remember that its just a game, and its a game without some more advanced lighting effects, no HDR, no depth of field and such, so when in real life at night there are many factors in play - moon, stars, ours ships metal hull, our own eyes making "adjustments" - in game its limited to just those effects it can handle, and to monitors we use (TMO is lighter on LCDs, but its pitch black at night on my old CRT to the point when only ship splashes are visible). So, I adjusted night colors for my game myself, but would use your mod anyday.

[Hylander_1314]

The first 2 look like nights when it's colder out, and the ones with the S-Boat, look like humid summer nights. Too bad we can't have seasonal changes.

But both versions look fantastic! If you can make them interchangeable, I would use both, and just swap them out with JSGME. Use the clearer one for late autumn, to early spring, Like Oct. to March or April, and the other one the of months.

So that's my honest take on it. Make both available! Especially if they can be interchanged!

With the moonlight, it reminds me of nightfishing for channel catfish, and sturgeon in early spring and late autumn.

The rest remind me of those humid hazy summer nights where everything metal on the boat gets a coat of dew on it.

[Rockin Robbins]

I like the stark color of the first set but the lighting level of the second.

[Fish40]

They all look good too me! Will this mod of yours be compatable with the supermods (RFB, TMO)? Will it change sensor settings or just the look of the environment? I may have to give it a try:yep:

[SilentOtto]

I find all of them awesome... If I have to choose I think the first two are more like a real full moon night... the grayer second two I think would be great for no moon-lower light nights... But it's really hard to choose, they all look great! :up:

[Armistead]

I'll try to adjust colors with the first set, but yea both could be released.

[icthird623]

They are nice enough to use as computer wallpaper.

[Armistead]

Amuse me why I post SS to compare. This is with just TMO 2.5, no other env changes like the first two sets, those two mass changes day and night of many factors.

TMO no changes
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2004-03-02_182808_468.jpg


More light
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2004-03-02_185328_406.jpg

Following same as above, just knocked some of the blue out of the env.
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2004-03-02_202629_421.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2004-03-02_203300_125.jpg

[Hylander_1314]

I like the second one, because it shows more of the object, minus too much detail, as in more of a silhouette of the object like I have seen at night on the water, but the last one, even if not accurate, ........... just looks cool! :|\\

[Hylander_1314]

Oh, and please, release both! I will put them to good use! And your sunset colors too! :yeah:

[Fish40]

Those look great! I guess it's safe to say it's compatable with TMO, but what about the fleeting few of us who still use RFB?

[Hylander_1314]

Like I do with FOTRS, use S3D to open the same file, and compare and change the settings, and test it.

[Armistead]

Those look great! I guess it's safe to say it's compatable with TMO, but what about the fleeting few of us who still use RFB?

It's based on the envs. of TMO2.5 and all those existing colors, so not sure what the look would be with other env mods as I do tweak several files at night regarding the moon, but starting with TMO's settings. If you're not worried about color or like your own you could just adjust values that deal with moon brightness, reflection, etc..and not touch anything else.

I added a few SS to the last SS post knocking a lil blue out.

The first sets are part of an env mod I've been working on for a long time that have many changes, still playing with it as usual, but thought what the heck, could go ahead and make a small moon light mod. I can't tell it effects visuals, but if it does it would give the enemy a tad more. However, it does help you can see ships better silhouetted planning your attack. The horizon is still very dark away from the moon when the moon is on the opposite horizon, but when th moon gets up in the sky, all the horizon lightens a tad so you can see an outline sea against sky.

You can about do whatever you want with colors, etc...but many values effect other values day and night, pain in the arse getting them all matched up, so until I release my env mod, right now just working off TMO, but be glad to tell you what values I tweaked, heck, someone may have already done it in another mod, just not sure.

[Armistead]

Thought I would test visuals, so did a patrol. I did increase lighting more than the other ones...it does seem to impact visuals. One thing I could never figure about light/visual values is can you be seen better if the enemy has the moon behind you, all I could ever find values for was light, didn't seem to matter where the light was or reflecting off the ocean.

In a S boat, so no radar or sonar on surface, I had a convoy in my front with a full moon behind it lighting it up well, I was getting good visuals at 5-6nms at night with the sub AI.. However, all of a sudden BOOM, I'm being shot at, I couldn't figure it, but then realized another TF had come up behind me, shouldn't have spawn that close. Looking, the escorts were just 6000 yards away. I could hardly see them, but it appears they could easily see me with the moon silhouetting me, but my sub AI didn't see them until right at 5000 yards.

I never thought moon position mattered, never seemed to before, but does appear it may, the AI easily saw ships in the moon, didn't see the ones much closer not in the moonlight. Course I did have beef light more this go.

It will take some tweaking for visuals, but I thought, cool, if the game actually did that, that's the way it should be.

[HW3]

I noticed that one patrol not long after I started playing SH IV. I was on the surface at night when all of a sudden I started getting shell fire. I could not locate the source for a minute or two, I was not real close to land but, took a quick look that way...nothing. I finally spotted two destroyers way off in the distance coming at me full bore, and firing their deck guns. It was then I noticed I was between them, and the moon rising behind me.:yep:

[WernherVonTrapp]

I like the second set, with the less pronounced colors. Looks much more realistic to me.:up: Darkness = The Absence of Color, and the first set looks too blue for reflected light from a half moon. Heck, it's hard for me to tell what color a vehicle is sometimes on the night shift, unless it drives right underneath a street lamp, and even then it's not completely clear.

[TorpX]

I never thought moon position mattered, never seemed to before, but does appear it may, the AI easily saw ships in the moon, didn't see the ones much closer not in the moonlight.
It does. I had an experience similer to HW3.


I like the second set, with the less pronounced colors. Looks much more realistic to me.:up:
Agree. I like the second set too.

[bill clarke]

Love em all mate

[magic452]

Lookin' good Armistead.

Like the last two best, gives a real feel of darkness.

Magic

[merc4ulfate]

Those first two remind me of when I was in the Navy ... on a full moon night the light level would be good but 3/4 moon and down the light level would have to be adjusted accordingly.

:|\\

Mark

[Rockin Robbins]

Ruh roh, I had to talk to a mariner. And he nixed the whole idea. You see, we live in a light polluted environment. Clouds look white at night because they are brightly lit FROM BELOW.

At sea, there is no light from below. Clouds are not white, they are BLACK. The only way you know they are there is that they block the light from the stars. Black clouds plus black night equals black sky. When the moon shows through, it is a concentrated halo. The entire cloud does not light.

I'm afraid that TMO is by far the best representation of the night sky at sea. Your shots are realistic for urban areas of land only.

Sorry.

[Hylander_1314]

A lot of the clouds at night light / shadow, depends a lot on the position of the moon, the kind of clouds they are, cirrus, cumulous, nimbus, or any combination thereof.

If the moon is in front of you, the clouds will be heavy with shadow. But I have seen them at angles from right overhead to directly behind me, where the tops are bright with light and the bottoms trail to inky blackness.

I have had the moon on the horizon behind me, and seen the tops shadowy, and the bottoms lit up, just like sunrise / sunset. Light is light, it will illuminate the surfaces it shines on. I also like the view of clouds between me and the moon, where yes, the shadow side is black, but the outline of the cloud is lit up.

Too bad the devs never incorporated the different kinds of clouds the real world has.

One thing the game sorely misses, is the squalls that come through, where you can see the storms a brewin', and you're in the sun where it's nice, and then the clouds roll overhead, the temp drops 20 to 30 degrees, the waves kick up, for an hour or less, and then you're back in the bright sunlight.

Like this picture illustrates :
http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ehow/images/a06/id/96/effects-cause-animals_-humans-plants_-1.1-800x800.jpg

http://torreyritter.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/untitled_panorama3.jpg

Now that would be cool!

Or a waterspout in the distance.

[Rockin Robbins]

All that would be great. But it is a sub simulator, not a weather simulator or a planetarium and I'm sure the devs could only spend so much time.

That where game companies need to have standard routines that can be incorporated into games calling for similar elements. Their organization at present means that everything has to be created from scratch each time a game is made. You lose masterpieces from lousy games that never sold because they were.......lousy! But maybe they had a great climate system built in.

The entire way that games are produced and sold must change or we're at the end of the road in the kind of quality we can expect from a game. We won't be limited by the capabilities of the computer any more, we'll be limited by the antiquated business models and production methods of computer games.

You can justify expenditure for a weather module that will be incorporated in more than one game and will have a lifespan measured in years, not weeks. It's the same for the games themselves, which generate a temporary revenue stream for a couple of months and then are lost forever with all the work that went into them.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Ruh roh, ...

At sea, there is no light from below. Clouds are not white, they are BLACK. The only way you know they are there is that they block the light from the stars. Black clouds plus black night equals black sky. When the moon shows through, it is a concentrated halo. The entire cloud does not light.

I'm afraid that TMO is by far the best representation of the night sky at sea. Your shots are realistic for urban areas of land only.

Sorry.Actually, that makes sense.:yep: I don't know how many books I've read where the crews of various warships (Japanese and American) gave accounts of how dark it was during a battle. Often, it was described as being so dark, the individual couldn't see their own hand in front of their face, let alone locate the opposing ships. Sometimes the only evidence of a ship's presence was it's wake as it stirred up the phosphorescent waters.

[Hylander_1314]

All that would be great. But it is a sub simulator, not a weather simulator or a planetarium and I'm sure the devs could only spend so much time.

That where game companies need to have standard routines that can be incorporated into games calling for similar elements. Their organization at present means that everything has to be created from scratch each time a game is made. You lose masterpieces from lousy games that never sold because they were.......lousy! But maybe they had a great climate system built in.

The entire way that games are produced and sold must change or we're at the end of the road in the kind of quality we can expect from a game. We won't be limited by the capabilities of the computer any more, we'll be limited by the antiquated business models and production methods of computer games.

You can justify expenditure for a weather module that will be incorporated in more than one game and will have a lifespan measured in years, not weeks. It's the same for the games themselves, which generate a temporary revenue stream for a couple of months and then are lost forever with all the work that went into them.

That's the one thing that the MS flightsims did pass on to the next gen game, with maybe some tweaks with better gear coming into use.

Aside from that, they mostly sucked. I remember the old CFS2 days, when one bullet hole in the wing of your Wildcat made the plane almost unflyable, and made you a sitting duck for the enemy.

But I am willing to compromise with a lighting mod, even if it isn't 100% accurate with moonlight.

[TorpX]

That where game companies need to have standard routines that can be incorporated into games calling for similar elements. Their organization at present means that everything has to be created from scratch each time a game is made. You lose masterpieces from lousy games that never sold because they were.......lousy! But maybe they had a great climate system built in.

The entire way that games are produced and sold must change or we're at the end of the road in the kind of quality we can expect from a game.
I think you raise an excellent point here.

[Rockin Robbins]

Actually, that makes sense.:yep: I don't know how many books I've read where the crews of various warships (Japanese and American) gave accounts of how dark it was during a battle. Often, it was described as being so dark, the individual couldn't see their own hand in front of their face, let alone locate the opposing ships. Sometimes the only evidence of a ship's presence was it's wake as it stirred up the phosphorescent waters.

We've forgotten what darkness looks like in our over-lighted cities and suburbs. We're all hepped up on light to prevent crime, when total darkness is the best crime preventative and detection system known to man. If you can't see your hand an inch in front of your face you're not taking anything unless you're a blind person and are used to that.

And if you still want to steal something you have to take a source of light with you. The smallest point of light in complete darkness just screams out, "Somethings going on over here! You might want to check it out!" It's only in places where there is altogether too much light and we light the way for the thieves that crime can run rampant. And we show 'em where the good stuff is by lighting it up better. Smart us!

Yes, out to sea, or in the Australian outback where there just is no light on a moonless night is scary dark. I talked to astronomers who traveled to Ayers Rock to watch an eclipse and they swore that the Milky Way, something that most city folks have never seen, casts a shadow there! The Milky Way, the band of amorphous light brightest in the Sagittarius area is a collection of stars, all of them much more than a thousand light-years away. I told them they must be joking. They convinced me that they were not.

We complain that we can't see well enough to target decently at night. You should read the real action reports! Welcome to the war.:woot:

[Armistead]

Ruh roh, I had to talk to a mariner. And he nixed the whole idea. You see, we live in a light polluted environment. Clouds look white at night because they are brightly lit FROM BELOW.

At sea, there is no light from below. Clouds are not white, they are BLACK. The only way you know they are there is that they block the light from the stars. Black clouds plus black night equals black sky. When the moon shows through, it is a concentrated halo. The entire cloud does not light.

I'm afraid that TMO is by far the best representation of the night sky at sea. Your shots are realistic for urban areas of land only.

Sorry.

Been in hospital for over a week....Anyway, I've done a lot of deep sea fishing 100's of miles out, the moon does light the clouds up very much, as well as the ocean .Havent been able to play with it, maybe next week

not near land...course no way to get a perfect in game look, but still should have
clouds and more extended lighting, but close to the moon, with clouds much darker away from it

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/moon-at-night.jpg

[Rockin Robbins]

Sounds like you're on the right track. So, unlike leovampire, you couldn't get any work done in the hospital? Seems like he did his best work there!

[WernherVonTrapp]

You should read the real action reports! Welcome to the war.:woot:(chuckle) I have. Well, some of them. Enough to know that it could get dark enough for a surface attack (Japanese or German). Though I have a number of WWII documentaries about submarine warfare on DVD, I just haven't had the desire to purchase and read any books on the subject. I myself, find that a little curious, or odd. Especially since I've read an enormous number of books over the years on WWII in general, with special emphasis on the PTO. My only conclusion is that it's somehow connected to my father's WWII aircraft carrier days, where he served in the Pacific.

@MWolfe:
I think you're on the right track too. IMHO, I think you should make the night time colors much less pronounced. Given the game engine mechanics, you might just find the right balance there, between a natural night time lack of color, and total blackout.:yep::03:

[Armistead]

[QUOTE=Rockin Robbins;1900639]Sounds like you're on the right track. So, unlike leovampire, you couldn't get any work done in the hospital? Seems like he did his best work there![/QUOTE

Heck, can't even have a cellphone in there, much less a pc...

I think I can get it close, have to adjust cloud color. When the moon gets high it really lights the ocean up. Basically I found all the sun settngs work for the moon, just most mods don't adjust sun settings at night, leave them at 0, so playing with those, you can get many different looks, course I want dark clouds away from moon which is easy, but you change one color you have to tweak all the other colors to match....I was shocked how much it effected visuals, full moon AI spotting ships at 5-6nms, not sure what would be the correct range, heck, my AI cant hardly spot the the enemy at 6nms during the day.
Anyone want to play with it just set the sun to sky intensity values up during the night and lighten sun colors, halo, reflection in env files and adjust reflection in scene dat....then fine tune all the colors...i dont know when i will get home to play with it, not soon

[WernherVonTrapp]

...you'll find the sun to sky value prolly set to 0, crank it up to .80 or so. All the sun colors are set to black at night, such as halo, sunlight, etc....I was trying med. greys. Also need to adjust other colors to get the tone you prefer, blacker or bluer look. I cant get to my work for prolly weeks.:huh: What the heck is "prolly"?

[Sailor Steve]

:huh: What the heck is "prolly"?
Cute-speak for "probably".

[Armistead]

:huh: What the heck is "prolly"?

it's text girl slang for probably......what can i say:D

edit, time i posted SS beat me to the punch

[WernherVonTrapp]

it's text girl slang for probably......what can i say:D

edit, time i posted SS beat me to the punch

Cute-speak for "probably".

:oops:Oops, sorry. For some reason, I didn't see the correlation.

[Armistead]

Back working on it, humor me why I keep playing with it, easier to compare them against the others here and get opinion. Trying to find a balance between the first two looks. Still need to darken wake a tad, maybe a tad too much glare, maybe too much light...

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-23_222239_031.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-23_222128_265.jpg

Clouds more blurred here...

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-23_213520_234.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-23_204943_078.jpg

Get about this same look going away from the moon, clouds lit up more around moon, still fairly dark opposite horizon.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-23_222105_062.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/full-moon-eerie_k2558302.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/full-moon_k2866654.jpg

[Tempest555]

FWIW back in 1989 I was flying back to Oahu late at night-moon was out you could see the Big Island of Hawaii way off in the distance (and an orange pin prick of light of lava flowing in the water.) Never forget that-and the ocean sparkled to. It was just like your screen captures.
Then somebody was asking me about President Kennedy and the PT 109 and what you see in the movies is true. I said one thing that is dead wrong about that movie is you can see everyone on deck before the collision. Which you have to because its a movie. What you have to imagine is that that was a moonless night and the only light was probably the glow of the cockpit instruments and peoples watch dials and a phosphorescent wake of a ship coming out of nowhere suddenly. I went deep sea fishing off San Diego-at 1:00 60 miles out{no moon-no stars [clouds?} it was like being in an ink well and yes I was worried being run down by a ship since our vessel was 35 ft long.

When the USS CORVINA was sunk by I-I76 it was Gibbous Moon (which is like in your screen capture)-Japanese were decks awash in open ocean (and I think I uncovered why) when they saw CORVINA-but CORVINA evidently never spotted them-or acted like she did'nt.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6169/6216019574_35960d65c3_z.jpg

[Armistead]

Playing some more, not much, some different looks, moon brighter, not as much glare, lil darker env. The big issue I have to figure out is what visual range should be at night as lighting has a lot of effect. I never much like the visual range of the subs AI anyway, I can see much further, but with what I have here the crew can see 5nms away on a moon light, but I can see that far anyway. Course as is with no moon it's so dark you/crew can hardly see anything, but maybe that's as it should be. Moon may need to be smaller....?

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-24_022533_328.jpg

different clouds, more blurred, thicker, so less light.


http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-24_014754_140.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-24_012056_578.jpg

Maybe more realistic

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2012-07-24_234340_562.jpg

TMO is fairly dark, but away from the moon I'm as dark, if not darker.

[Tempest555]

Well one item I don't think you can put in the mod-Japanese optics were superior to American optics at night

[infoleather]

I will use, just exchange them with JSGME. Late autumn clear, early spring, such as the October..

[TorpX]

Looks good, Armistead.

My only suggestion would be to make the water spray coming off the sub smaller or less visible. Subs always seem to be lit up like an illuminated fountain. Looks very pleasant, though.

[Armistead]

Looks good, Armistead.

My only suggestion would be to make the water spray coming off the sub smaller or less visible. Subs always seem to be lit up like an illuminated fountain. Looks very pleasant, though.



You talking of the water drain holes on the sides, if so, yea, that bothers me, sure it could be done, need to tone down wake brightness as well.

[Hylander_1314]

Captain Cox has a Bow Wave Kit mod that I use to tone down the wake, but even that seems a bit too much, and could use a little more toning down as it still appears to look too luminous still.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114402

This is the link to the download here at Subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3437

It is also used with permission in the Longer Shipwake Mod too.

[Armistead]

Captain Cox has a Bow Wave Kit mod that I use to tone down the wake, but even that seems a bit too much, and could use a little more toning down as it still appears to look too luminous still.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114402

This is the link to the download here at Subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3437

It is also used with permission in the Longer Shipwake Mod too.

I'll check it out, it has been bright, but not only the wake colors effect that, several light intensity values to as well. I need to knock the port hole water down too, if someone knows the file, save me the searching.

[Slyguy3129]

Any more work done on this? Looks incredibly promising!

[TwoGamers]

Second one is good it gives of enough light without ruining the effect