Anti-Air Defences

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Do any of your flak cannons, 20mm, 30mm, 3.7cm, or what have you, flak rounds rendered in the game at all, with the little puffs of smoke in the sky when they detonate? I haven't seen any puffs of smoke in the air after firing AA guns but not sure if they come later on in the war or not.

[u crank]

I may be wrong, but I don't believe any of those rounds, 20mm, 30mm, 3.7cm, would explode unless they hit something.

[Sailor Steve]

I agree. Shells were either AP Tracer, which was a solid round, or HE Incindiary which exploded on contact. No timed fuses and certainly no proximity fuses. Hence, no puffs of smoke.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Okay so no flakvierlings like on Band of Brothers episode 2 Day of Days where the tracers explode in the sky and make a blanket of shrapnel. Thanks guys. Just was curious,

[Sailor Steve]

Actually you may be right, but for the wrong reason. This page says that all the rounds would self-destruct after a few seconds, which would leave a telltale puff of smoke - not because they exploded for a shrapnel effect, though that might happen as well, but because the tracer would burn out, destroying the round.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_cm_Flak_30/38/Flakvierling

It also says that some tracerless rounds self-destructed. I don't see how they could make a timed fuse that small, but that's what they say.

As for making something like that in a game, it's probably doable in an original game, but I doubt SH3 could be adapted to do that.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Okay. Yeah. That article explains a lot. Very interesting article.

[diesel97]

Maybe the artist knows something we don't or just dramatic license ?.

http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/MoreImages6/SunderlandPainting.jpg

[Captain Nemo]

Here's a screenshot I took sometime ago which shows shells exploding around aircraft.

Nemo

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7823/luftwaffeattack02.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/luftwaffeattack02.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Now that's just slicker than heck!! That's what I was looking for. Whether or not that was rendered in game. I'm assuming those were AA shells, not AP or HE. If you can remember.

[Captain Nemo]

The action in the screenshot took place off the east coast of England while I was stalking a convoy and the Luftwaffe turned up and attacked it. The escorts immediately opened fire on the attacking planes and that's what you see. Presumably they are AA shells.

Nemo

[nutworld]

Actually you may be right, but for the wrong reason. This page says that all the rounds would self-destruct after a few seconds, which would leave a telltale puff of smoke - not because they exploded for a shrapnel effect, though that might happen as well, but because the tracer would burn out, destroying the round.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_cm_Flak_30/38/Flakvierling

It also says that some tracerless rounds self-destructed. I don't see how they could make a timed fuse that small, but that's what they say.

As for making something like that in a game, it's probably doable in an original game, but I doubt SH3 could be adapted to do that.

wikipedia sure has it's flaws and errors, and there are MANY places that are incorrect, but people ususally TRY very hard to have good information listed.

For me, Wikipedia has become my own person "online" encyclopedia. Great article, I learned much I wasn't aware because of it.

Thanks for sharing

[Sailor Steve]

Oh yeah. When Wikipedia disagrees with them people tend to say bad things about it, but I've found some things there that aren't available anywhere else. Takeda Shingen is a history professor, and even he said that when you need a quick online source for something Wiki is as good as any, as long as you double-check the references and make sure they have the right information. He has also said that for a true study no online source should be trusted.

[Luno]

Journals (science, history, etc) are extensively peer reviewed, and are published in print, as well as online. :salute:

You can't always trust printed material either though. Writers and editors can and do make mistakes.

I don't know if explosive rounds were standard load-out on subs, but they did exist. Size apparently wasn't much of an issue, as timed fuses were implemented in rounds as small as 20 mm. I'm sure each round was expensive to produce, but they managed.

If by chance they were carried as part of a sub's AA armament, then it would be nice to see a mod which includes them.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't know if explosive rounds were standard load-out on subs, but they did exist. Size apparently wasn't much of an issue, as timed fuses were implemented in rounds as small as 20 mm. I'm sure each round was expensive to produce, but they managed.
Yes they were, but they were designed to explode on contact, not as proximity or timed-fuse shells. One thing that has occured to me just now is the question of aircraft-mounted cannons. The Germans used 20mm and 30mm cannons on their fighters, and they definitely included exploding rounds. I don't recall ever reading about or seeing gun-camera footage of shells that exploded in the air after missing.

I don't know the facts in this case. Does anyone recall reading or seeing anything about this?

[Captain Nemo]

Yes they were, but they were designed to explode on contact, not as proximity or timed-fuse shells. One thing that has occured to me just now is the question of aircraft-mounted cannons. The Germans used 20mm and 30mm cannons on their fighters, and they definitely included exploding rounds. I don't recall ever reading about or seeing gun-camera footage of shells that exploded in the air after missing.

I don't know the facts in this case. Does anyone recall reading or seeing anything about this?

See http://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/me163/weapons15.htm particularly the section on the ZZ 1589 B fuse. Not sure if this particular round was used in aircraft cannon though.

Nemo

[Sailor Steve]

Now that is interesting, especially the description of how the AZ 1587 fuse worked. There's always something new to learn.

Thanks for the link.

[SuperEtendard]

In Il-2 Sturmovik, the shells, from airplanes and AA are very well-recreated, the only unrealistic thing are the colours the round has flying in the sky, but its only for recognizing porpouses. I used to play it A LOT. And i can tell that the AAA heavy flak, for example the 88 flak, their rounds were invisible, you only notice the explosion near your plane, an later the little black cloud that appears there (proximity shell). There are also the AAA smaller cannons, 20mm. 37mm. their rounds are visible (tracer) and the HE explodes when it hits your plane, but also they explode at a certain distance, i think this is when the shell burns out. When i play the japanese and attack american carrier groups, they fire on me, but i see where the light aaa explodes by itself and stay flying around behind that limit for some time, positioning me for a "perfect" attack run, most of times i get killed :har: (they have a lot of guns, and i have a Val, you could set it on fire throwing a stone at it ...:-?).

In Il-2 the type VIIIC has a four barreled 20mm flak and their HE rounds explode after some km of flying . The explosion is different than the heavy AAA. There is no black cloud that last some seconds. It just a little clear grey smoke for an instant, after the fireball.

I think this could be modded.