China fake parts 'used in US military equipment'

[Gerald]

Vast numbers of counterfeit Chinese electronic parts are being used in US military equipment, a key Senate committee has reported.

A year-long probe found 1,800 cases of fake parts in US military aircraft, the Senate Armed Services Committee found.

More than 70% of an estimated one million suspect parts were traced back to China, the report said.

It blamed weaknesses in the US supply chain, and China's failure to curb the counterfeit market.

The failure of a key part could pose safety and national security risks and lead to higher costs for the Pentagon, the committee said.

US servicemen rely on a variety of "small, incredibly sophisticated electronic components" found in night vision systems, radios and GPS devices and the failure of a single part could put a soldier at risk, the report said.

It highlighted suspect counterfeit parts in SH-60B helicopters used by the Navy, in C-130J and C-27J cargo planes and in the Navy's P-8A Poseidon plane.

After China, the UK and Canada were found to be the next-largest source countries for fake parts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18155293

Note: 22 May 2012 Last updated at 02:35 GMT

[Herr-Berbunch]

I wondered why I'd seen a Land Lover driving round. :D

[Gerald]

I wondered why I'd seen a Land Lover driving round. :D Is actually a Kia :O:

[Skybird]

I wondered why I'd seen a Land Lover driving round. :D

:har:

[Jimbuna]

I wondered why I'd seen a Land Lover driving round. :D

LOL :DL

[Ducimus]

:nope:

Everything our military uses, should be made in the US. Relying on parts, products, equipment made anywhere else, is a major logistical weakness and in a wartime scenario, opens the doors to sabotage and other forms of underhandedness. On top of that, getting equipment from foriegn vendors detracts from our own local economies.

This situation is INCREDIBLY stupid.

[TLAM Strike]

Everything our military uses, should be made in the US.

Ummmmm....
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7379/ussintensity28pg9329.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8375/750pxpngnsh60.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6425/800px021002m2706g003.jpg

How about the DoD just stops buying from China? ;)

[Stealhead]

I fully agree with TLAM on this one.

Also you forgot

Belgian
http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/M240-1.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/m249.jpg

German
http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/mark23.jpg

Italian
http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/m1014.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/M9bw.jpg

Sweeeeedish!!!!!!!!!
http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/at4-dvic540.jpg

Sure some of these are made in the US the F&Ns(the Belgians) are made by F&N USA and the H&Ks are made by H&KUSA but they are foreign designs and the parent companies are foreign.I do not care where it comes from so long as it not an enemy state and so long as it is the best available/most effective choice.F&N has large contract to produce M-16/M-4 parts as well.

By the way there is a DOD program that allows you to search through all DOD supply contractors another guy in my unit was searching though it one day many items are made by prisoners in the US prison system much of the clothing for example and even some electronic components.

[Stealhead]

Oh and do not forget the Packard-Merlin.

Ignore this post I had a brain fart and it will not let me delete it

[Morts]

Found a few more
M3 Carl Gustav, Sig P228, Sig P229, Glock 19, HK416, MP5, MP7.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individual_weapons_of_the_U.S._Armed_Force s

[Stealhead]

Some of those are more unique weapons used by elite forces though and are in smaller numbers I admit that showing the Mk23 is a bit of cheat because it is not in common use but you are correct I am not sure about the Glock 19 though that will find only as a personally procured weapon on elite troops the sigs are used by Navy SEALs as an issued weapon.The HK416 was only tested as well and not officially adopted if you want to split hairs.

[Ducimus]

I make no apologies for my love of country, and firm belief that the things we use should be made here.

EDIT: By the way, the M9, while an italian design is made in the US, so you can remove the picture of the Beretta 92fs.

[Bilge_Rat]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/BAE-McDonell-Douglas_AV8B_edit5.jpg/300px-BAE-McDonell-Douglas_AV8B_edit5.jpg

Harrier II also, British design and partially built in the UK.

[Jimbuna]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/39/BAE-McDonell-Douglas_AV8B_edit5.jpg/300px-BAE-McDonell-Douglas_AV8B_edit5.jpg

Harrier II also, British design and partially built in the UK.

Good one...the Harrier is the only plane designed in another country that the US have flown IIRC.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Good one...the Harrier is the only plane designed in another country that the US have flown IIRC.

Err, T-45 Goshawk - British, C-27 - Italian, C-41 - Spain, T-6 Texan designed on the Pilatus PC9 - Switzerland, TG-10 (glider for training) - Czech Republic, DA-40 - Austrian, Twin Otter - Canada.

Admittedly none of those feature highly when you think of US military aircraft, but nonetheless. :D


Edit: I admit that even with my almost encyclopaedic knowledge I had to turn to wiki for some.

[Raptor1]

Err, T-45 Goshawk - British, C-27 - Italian, C-41 - Spain, T-6 Texan designed on the Pilatus PC9 - Switzerland, TG-10 (glider for training) - Czech Republic, DA-40 - Austrian, Twin Otter - Canada.

Admittedly none of those feature highly when you think of US military aircraft, but nonetheless. :D


Edit: I admit that even with my almost encyclopaedic knowledge I had to turn to wiki for some.


There's also the English Electric/Martin B-57 Canberra, as well as about twelve billion different French, British and other aircraft designs in and after World War I...

[Digger Heinz]

It's difficult, at times... to admit to one's self that your country doesn't produce the best "fill in the blank"... however, I think it is a great thing to be able to realize that you can get these wonderful toys, and that such makes the market thrive... not just the weapons market... yes I'm speaking generally... why? Because I'm not going to go into who built what... or who sells this or that to which country... suffice it to say... the US is a great broker... nuff said~!

Fair skies,

Digger

[Ducimus]

I'm just not a big fan of globalization. If you think its great, that's fine, your entitled to their opinion just as much as I'm entitled to mine.

[Herr-Berbunch]

There's also the English Electric/Martin B-57 Canberra, as well as about twelve billion different French, British and other aircraft designs in and after World War I...

I was just going through those in service - please tell me you've still got operational Canberras, please! :DL

[CaptainMattJ.]

Agreed. Im sick of extremely low quality "goods" from China. Id much rather pay a little extra for something that was built by a skilled labor workforce with higher standardization thats going to last me than some cheap low quality item thats going to break down on me earlier.

The chinese can still sell their low quality items to poorer nations. Im sure they need it. Why should we have to continue investing in China, when the Chinese are getting more and more aggressive by the minute. The only problem with pulling industry back to the United States and/or 1st world countries, is that corporations will start price gouging again because they now have to pay MINIMUM WAGE at the LEAST to their workers and start treating them decently (although id bet theyd just hire illegals to do the work anyway). The benefits of low-intervention capitalism are never ending, arent they? :nope:

[Stealhead]

I make no apologies for my love of country, and firm belief that the things we use should be made here.

EDIT: By the way, the M9, while an italian design is made in the US, so you can remove the picture of the Beretta 92fs.

I will not because the parent company is Italian and therefore the capital goes to the Italian owners.Also some of the parts are still made outside the US.

What does love of your country have anything to do with it? I love my country yet do not share your opinion on this matter.I am no fan of globalization but international trade and international exchange of ideas and weapons among your allies is really a good thing not bad and the US benefits far more from selling of gear to others how many nations fly F-16s and AH-64s,SH-60s,C-130s? Plenty we buy relatively inexpensive small arms they buy very expensive aircraft it is a good trade off.

A good military will rise to the challenge of any supply issue hell in the Marines they always joke about the quality of most gear in WWII they came up with genius ways to solve logistical and parts problems.In my job in the Air Force we where always low on funds and the brass would tell us do not order a new part make the old one work take two broken machines and make one working one and we did it murphy's law nothing goes according to plan plan for failures plan for things to go wrong find a way to solve the problem that was the mentality in my units. Remember everything that you use was made by the lowest bidding contractor regardless of where it came from.

[Oberon]

I was just going through those in service - please tell me you've still got operational Canberras, please! :DL

That doesn't narrow it down a lot Herr B, those old workhorses only stopped working a few years ago! :doh: Not bad for an aircraft who had its first flight in the closing months of the 1940s! I think the only other aircraft who can make that kind of claim now is the B-52.

EDIT: I stand corrected, apparently the legendary Bear has also been going since the fifties, as has the C-130 and KC-135

[Platapus]

Agreed. Im sick of extremely low quality "goods" from China. Id much rather pay a little extra for something that was built by a skilled labor workforce with higher standardization thats going to last me than some cheap low quality item thats going to break down on me earlier.



Is it your position that workers in the United States always produce high quality products?

Just making stuff in the US is no guarantee that it will be high quality, just high price.

The solution is for the US government to have a better inspection system and to start holding international companies accountable for quality.

[Stealhead]

I question how well they do that for anything they get from a US contractor as it is.I have an old high school friend(we are rather different now to say the least) that works for a company that producers wire of various types some of it for use in aircraft some for use in generators things of this nature they have that fancy ISO 9001 and AS9100 rating and supply to the military but I have no idea how because most of the employees are drug addicts and they are constantly firing workers for theft yet they make supposedly quality products :hmmm:.

My old friend brags about how they falsify work orders all the time because now one really checks they often will send out 10,000ft of wire that they know is crap again because no one is checking I am sorry but a company that has an ISO 9001 rating yet does not drug test its employees and leaves them under little to know supervision has no business having an ISO 9001 rating.Oh and they also employ lots of green card holders as well because they get a tax break for doing it they are probably the best workers though but still I dislike that a company employs green card holders just for the tax break nothing wrong with employing an honest immigrant but not like that.

If one American company does it I am sure that others do as well.

[Ducimus]

I will not because the parent company is Italian and therefore the capital goes to the Italian owners.Also some of the parts are still made outside the US.

My M9 says MADE IN THE USA. That's good enough for me.


What does love of your country have anything to do with it?

Because I hate having our jobs and industry exported overseas. I believe in American Pride and American Craftsmanship, and I believe it needs to return. I believe in America first, in all things. I also believe that the US military is a projection of our nation, and should represent our nation in all things. Our industry should be supporting and outfitting it, not a industry of a foreign nation. If a large conflict were to ever happen again, how the hell are we going to equip our country when we've outsourced the industry to china, belglium or where ever?


I love my country yet do not share your opinion on this matter.

Well hoo raa for you.

I am no fan of globalization but

The "but" just canceled out the words preceding it. So you are a fan of globalzation. Well, again, Hoo raaah for you.
Here's your flag, go fly it this memorial day.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/images/corporate%20flag.gif


EDIT:
Now that i've calmed down a little, though i still make no apologies,

Stealhead, i seriously doubt you will meet many individuals who have a stronger sense of nationalism then I. And yes I know fanatical nationalism is one word away from being a form of evil unto itself. However, China, is not home. Europe is not home. The ONLY thing worth supporting, fighting, defending, or getting upset over in this world, is home. Home is the only thing that matters. Everything else is a bunch of crock.

[Stealhead]

Well hoo raa for you.







Why insult me like that?I did not insult your love of country why have that attitude because I do not share your opinion?



I am sorry but it is a massive contradiction to say that you dislike globalism (which is not the same thing as international trade by any means http://www.blurtit.com/q571834.html) the Beretta is made in the US true but its parent company is not American.You say you love things made by Americans yet you own a gun made by a foreign company that happens to have a factory in the US.This is like saying I only buy American but I drive a Toyota,Honda,Hyundai of which components are made in other nations and the company itself is not American owned.Why not own a Colt M1911 or a Springfield M1911 those are made by Americans and are American companies.Why ware you using a computer where was it made?

I am just saying you clearly are not truly practicing what you preach by even buying one thing not made in the US and not fully owned by a US company.

As I said globalization and international trade are not the same thing one has been occurring since the dawn of nations and is not harmful if done with in reason.The other is a much newer concept and is harmful to all involved.


I do not follow the consume everything I see crap either I am frugal (though I admit that my PC desk is a bit cluttered We really do not have a whole lot of consumery crap lying around)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frugality

And my flag looks like this thank you very much (oh wait your right you can see my daughters Japanese stickers I am being sarcastic here )

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/100_0036.jpg

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q527/datsun260zyojimbo/100_0034.jpg


And the next large conflict I hope that never happens because it will be a nuclear war and we have plenty of warheads.A WWII style conflict is a thing of the past there is a reason that they have all been "small scale" since then in fact we are to afraid to really fight hands free sometimes because of the fear of it escalating.

[Ducimus]

Why insult me like that?
Because you coping a smart ass attitude with me, so i coped an attitude right back. If you don't like it, then don't don't piss in someones direction and not expect to get pissed on back.

I did not insult your love of country why have that attitude because I do not share your opinion?
1. You were copping a smart ass attitude with me. Ok, fine, i can spit in your face too.
2.)This subject is a hotbutton with me. Amazingly, I could give less then a **** about the usual political left or wright wing drama.


You say you love things made by Americans yet you own a gun made by a foreign company that happens to have a factory in the US.

Not everyone can afford to feed a 1911.

This is like saying I only buy American but I drive a Toyota,Honda,Hyundai of which components are made in other nations and the company itself is not American owned.


I drive a Ford. One of the last years where most of it was made here. You can kindly kiss my ass.


Why not own a Colt M1911 or a Springfield M1911 those are made by Americans and are American companies.

Well if you can afford to spend 100 dollars on 250 rounds of 45 ACP, instead of 65 dollars for 250 rounds 9mm every weekend, then good for you. If i could afford the ammo, id have a colt 1911.



Why ware you using a computer where was it made?

You know as well as i do, in many things WE NO LONGER HAVE A CHOICE. I am unaware of any American made computers, or TV's, etc.


Ill stop reading there, i'm done with this subject. In the future, don't cope a smart ass atittude with me on this particular subject or we're going to be butting heads A LOT.

EDIT:
And don't even deny you copped a tude. You could have just said, "duci, your wrong, such and such and so and so are foreign made, etc etc yada yada." And i would have been fine with that. Hell i may have even said, "yeah you got a point i guees".

But nooooooo, you feel so strongly about it, that you went the extra mile to google image search picture to prove your point. Yeah ive been in enough message board arguments to know when someones trying to go for the jugular or rub salt in a wound. Done it plenty of times myself. Then your choice of words later on compounded on that, and that really set me off when i was trying to be civil up until that point.

http://snarkyrider.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/asshat-award.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Attitudes and opinions are often open to each individuals sole perception but any insults are open to the moderators perception/interpretation to deal with.

If we are going to disagree can we please do it in a civil and respectful manner without running the risk of violating the forum rules.

I thank all in advance for their cooperation.

[Skybird]

I forsee the day when the daisy-cutter will be called rice-picker instead. :DL