S-Boats

[PhilipWebb059]

Greetings All;
An interesting thing happened on the way to attack a convoy, after many hours of getting in position for the perfect attack with the Mk 10 fish. I ordered the boat to periscope depth (P key) and started getting ready to serve fish to a fat tanker. All of a sudden the boat gets slammed by shells from everything that could carry a pop gun in the convoy plus the three escorts. I check the boat out and I see that the boat never dived to the right depth I hit the D key and nothing. I tried the C key and only then did the boat start its dive. But in the mean time I had damage that would take to long to fix and the ocean was pouring in and I don't believe the S-boat is rated for a 1000 foot test depth. She just didn't want to dive - correctly.
Is there a fix for this problem?

My SH4 is version 1.4 (I may be getting 1.5 sooner or later)

Thanks

[WernherVonTrapp]

Greetings and welcome.:up:

First off, you might want to upgrade to version 1.5 sooner than later.:D Though I've never used version 1.4 myself, it is my understanding (from reading various posts) that it's a bit buggy. When you pressed the "P" key, what depth did your sub dive to /or/ did it dive at all? Are you sure that you didn't hit the wrong key like I have done on occasion?

In any event, version 1.5 would be a good place to start for a fix.:03:

[Armistead]

I play 1.5 now, but use to play 1.4 and I never saw this issue, nor do I think it's a bug in 1.4. Overall 1.4 isn't any more bugged than 1.5, just what we call realistic fixes done by mods. I can't remember stock, but I assume the D key is active. Even in heavy seas I don't recall any boat that breached the surface enough to be seen at scope depth. One thing possible if seas were rough is that they saw your scope, started shooting at that and hit other parts of your boat that breached through the waves, if the water was calm, not sure.

Did you notice if you took any damage to your dive planes?

[Char]

I ordered the boat to periscope depth (P key) and started getting ready to serve fish to a fat tanker. All of a sudden the boat gets slammed by shells from everything that could carry a pop gun in the convoy plus the three escorts.

How Long Between Ordering Periscope Depth and getting shells?

S-boats are Old and slow,they take a bit of time to get down,and even using the the Dive order,they take awhile to respond.

1.4 and 1.5 don't Matter,They're just as slow in 1.5,if my memory is correct.

[Daniel Prates]

S-boats are Old and slow,they take a bit of time to get down,and even using the the Dive order,they take awhile to respond.


That is very right. Could be a whole minute, maybe minutes. I think that maybe you took too long to dive and got spoted. Guns can be primed to fire within seconds. Also, when you are close to the surface, you are still a bit visible and eligible to be fired upon.

[PhilipWebb059]

Hello;
Thank you for all your responses. I shall take them in order then--


First off, you might want to upgrade to version 1.5 sooner than later.:D Though I've never used version 1.4 myself, it is my understanding (from reading various posts) that it's a bit buggy. When you pressed the "P" key, what depth did your sub dive to /or/ did it dive at all? Are you sure that you didn't hit the wrong key like I have done on occasion?

In any event, version 1.5 would be a good place to start for a fix.:03:

If memory serves me (with ginko biloba) I am sure I hit the correct P key then the D key and lastly the C key to crash into the murky depths. Yes I do believe I will be getting the ver 1.5 for this game. I know I hit the right keys on my new geezer keyboard (large letters on yellow keys).


I play 1.5 now, but use to play 1.4 and I never saw this issue, nor do I think it's a bug in 1.4. Overall 1.4 isn't any more bugged than 1.5, just what we call realistic fixes done by mods. I can't remember stock, but I assume the D key is active. Even in heavy seas I don't recall any boat that breached the surface enough to be seen at scope depth. One thing possible if seas were rough is that they saw your scope, started shooting at that and hit other parts of your boat that breached through the waves, if the water was calm, not sure.

Did you notice if you took any damage to your dive planes?

The sea wasn't really rough, 5 meter per second with good visibility.
No damage to dive planes. I couldn't see the boat as I have everything on realistic settings. Again I am sure I'll be getting the ver 1.5 patch. I usually just shadow a convoy in heavy seas until the weather clears to attack.


How Long Between Ordering Periscope Depth and getting shells?

S-boats are Old and slow,they take a bit of time to get down,and even using the the Dive order,they take awhile to respond.

1.4 and 1.5 don't Matter,They're just as slow in 1.5,if my memory is correct.

About three to five minutes, I was plotting and setting torpedoes after ordering the dive.

That is very right. Could be a whole minute, maybe minutes. I think that maybe you took too long to dive and got spoted. Guns can be primed to fire within seconds. Also, when you are close to the surface, you are still a bit visible and eligible to be fired upon.

Yes sir, indeed I did. The boat didn't dive until I hit the C key and even then it was not a quick dive. No doubt the holes in the bulkheads did help though.

Again- Thank you for the responses

[Char]

3 to 5 minutes,yep that's about how long it take the S-boat to get it's Nose down,and then about 1 or 2 more to fully Submerge.

S-Boats are very fun to drive.I find myself playing in them the more than the others.
They are Slow,Old,Fragile,and Dive slower than Molassas in January!

The MK 10s aren't the best Torpedos to use when attacking Convoys either.They are pretty slow.Have a VERY visable Wake.And Their maximum range leaves you very close to possible escorts.

Plus the Test Depth is pretty Shallow,And the Crush Depth...
Well Lets just say I Don't go below 275 feet unless ABSOLUTLY NESSISARY,because you are getting VERY VERY close to Crush Depth (for me it Varies from 280-350 Feet)

[Stormende]

As someone said before, it takes a lil bit longer than any other boat to dive this baby, you can hurry things up by calling for battle stations, keep in mind that if your crew is tired they will perform poorly (that's why you should call for battle stations).

What I have noticed tho is that sometimes if you press the P key once, the command won't be acknowledged nor complied. I thought my wireless keyboard was faulty so I attached a wired one and the result was the same, now I press several times the P key until I hear the order being carried out.

There is another thing that I have noticed with this boat, the first time it dives takes longer than the others, I have no clue why but sometimes it happens, so it will be a good practice to dive just at the beginning of the mission so you won't have this problem later.

:salute:

[TorpX]

The very long dive times are not normal for S-boats.

I did have that problem playing v1.5 w/ RFB awhile ago. It took about 5 to 6 min. to make a normal dive to p/s depth. Needless to say, I was not happy with this. Crash dives were better, but still over a minute. Finally, I reloaded another copy of RFB and re-installed it. The problem vanished. I can make a normal dive in 35 sec. or so.

My only concern about the S-boats is that they do turn slowly in this game. They were better in SHCE. I have to wonder about this. :-?

[PhilipWebb059]

Yes indeed, 3 - 5 minutes is too long for a dive even to periscope depth. I noted that this is a very bad bug with the stock version of the game even when it's patched to v1.4.

The Mk 10 torps are a little short ranged and not much room for error I figure I'll have to close to my target to 2500 yards, 3500 yards max range is too short ranged. As for the max depth is shallow as compared with the Gatos (and every other boat too), but still workable, if one is very careful.
The crew does gain experience if they are "trained" en-route to the patrol zones.

I d/l both TMO and RFB and did the multi-install. The dive times are "fixed".
In TMO the dive time is anywhere between 35 sec and less than 1.5 minutes, I have not tried the S-Boat in RFB yet. Currently doing a campaign in TMO from the base in the Philippines in a S-18 class. I'm north of Luzon and in the process of attacking a huge convoy of 2 Kuma class CL, 6 DDs, 8-18 Small Passenger Carriers, and numerous sons of Nippon. Oh and I m being attacked by the 6 destroyers, I have them right where I want them.

[donna52522]

Oh and I m being attacked by the 6 destroyers, I have them right where I want them.

That's the way to look at the positive side of things, the more they send at you the more you can sink. :D

It's not every day targets line up and come straight to you. :har:

[Armistead]

Ok, I studied the matter with S boats dive times using TMO...rather strange at first. Seems I did this long ago.

One thing you will notice about the S boat is that the dive planes are located much higher up, so it needs heavy ballast before the dive planes can hit the water and start the sub down.

All dives were using the P periscope depth key unless stated.

My first dive at standard was 2 mins, 15 seconds...2:15
Surfaced for a minute and dived again......35 seconds.

Is something strange here, not really..
The S boat in calm waters surfaced has a depth of about 17ft. When I dived the second time, even though I was surfaced and making standard speed my depth was 19 ft, simply...the boat was still heavy with ballast.
However, results then seem to vary. Next dive I came up and waited until I was at 17ft steady and dived again, , this time it was 55 seconds...could the game acutally have the boat riding heavy.

After more test, it seems it actually takes a good 5-7 minutes for all ballast to empty, even though I have a depth of 17ft in about two minutes. If you stay surfaced for say 10 minutes, each dive after that was about 2:00, wait an hour or so a stedy 2:15. It seemed consistant, each minute I waited longer to dive from 1-8 minutes it would take longer to get to scope depth.

Blowing ballast seemed to have some effect. If I blew ballast to come up, dive times were increase by 15 seconds.

I haven't tested it, but I would assume if you're going slower, say 1/3 it may take even longer than 2:15

One thing I do when I'm in a S boat near a group plotting, is set depth to about 21 ft, you stay surfaced, speeds stay the same, but since you're riding with some heavy ballast, you can dive much quicker, moreso using crash dive......and always use crash dive in a S boat when you need to get under.

[Daniel Prates]

I did have that problem playing v1.5 w/ RFB awhile ago. It took about 5 to 6 min.
Yes I too would say that this is beyond normal.

[PhilipWebb059]

Hello All;
Just an update on the attack. I managed to slip away from the destroyers, of which two of them past by me at less than 500 yards. I was at 192 ft at 2 knots. The remaining four are cutting donuts aft. I have them where I want them- away from the convoy.
After careful sluggish maneuvering I'm a mere 5000 yards from the two Kuma CLs.

Thanks Armistead for the good study of the situation on the S-boats, it will come in handy in future patrols-- if I don't get sunk in current patrol.
Thanks for reading.

[MKalafatas]

Yes, thanks Armistead. Until now I've been shy about even surfacing in daytime in the S-boat wherever enemy air patrols may lurk, since diving is such a labor.

But your analysis, and the 21' depth idea, opens a new window.

[TorpX]

Armistead,

While I'm not taking issue with the results of your tests, I can assure you my dives with S-boats were not based on any sort of riding heavy or decks awash condition. I seldom dive soon after I have surfaced, and always surface completely. Perhaps TMO is different.

For anyone in a S-boat: I would try reinstalling the game and mods if normal 'P' dives cannot be achieved in less than 1 minute. I would try a few as it is possible a green crew would hamper you somewhat.
Maybe there is an issue with some of the S-boat files being corrupted easily in installation. Like I said before, I had very long dive times, but a reinstall fixed the problem. The difference was night and day. I know others have had similer problems going back. I don't know for sure what the cause is.

[Char]

I know others have had similer problems going back. I don't know for sure what the cause is.

TorpX,S-boats are like a Grumpy old man.It'll do What it wants,when it wants.And at it's own pace.and Heaven help you if you say anything about it.:D

[TorpX]

TorpX,S-boats are like a Grumpy old man.It'll do What it wants,when it wants.And at it's own pace.and Heaven help you if you say anything about it.:D

:DL


He he. Well, they have their limitations, but I've always liked playing the S-class. I guess it is because I had a lot of fun with them in SHCE. My main complaint with them (in SH 4) is that when submerged, they turn like a frieght train on a long stretch of track. I find it is best to plan my approaches well in advance, as making quick course changes, is all but impossible.