Torpedo damage?

[IcyWaters]

I was wondering why it takes more than 1 torpedo to sink a ship? ie, won't a big gaping hole at the side of a ship below the waterline == bye bye ship?

I can understand firing more than 1 torp to guarantee a hit or make the ship sink faster, but if you got mad torp skills, can you kill a medium-sized ship with one torp? Or maybe a warship with two?

[Dogfish40]

Ahoy Icy,
There are various reasons for one torpedo not sinking a Medium sized merchant, both game reasons and historical/physical ones.

Anyway, there's a mod (as always) that you can load up that deals with sinking ships with one fish. It comes with two strength values so you can choose that as well.
It is called "One ship, One torpedo V1.00" and it can be found in the mods forum or the downloads section.
I use this from time to time and it works great. The cool thing is, it's not overblown. That is there is still a chance with the large ships that you'll still have to sink it with two.
One more thing, sometimes you can put a fish into a merchant and it doesn't sink right away. I've hung out for a time and the ship does sink, it just takes 15 bloody minutes.
Good Luck and Good Hunting (Gute Jagd) Herr Kaleun
D40

[IcyWaters]

Thank you for that info sir!

However, I wonder what is historically accurate? Did old sub captains really fire off two or more torps at a time? Do you really need more than one torp to sink a ship?

I apologize if these are basic questions and I appreciate any info.

[Sailor Steve]

The Americans commonly fired a three-torpedo spread at each ship, because they had six tubes forward and could do it twice before reloading. The Germans varied from captain to captain, some firing full four-torpedo spreads, some firing two at a time, and some prefering to risk missing by only firing one.

As for how many it takes to sink a ship, you should read the story of USS Whale:

Fired three torpedoes. Three hits. One hit aft of his stack, the second blew wreckage up through forward hold and the third
hit aft. Target started turning toward us. Swung hard right and set up for a stern shot.

Fired single stern shot at range of 600 yards. Hit aft. This was a good hit, stopping the target cold. The target was sinking by the stern, taking considerable port list. Took pictures, firmly convinced this was the graveyard of another Japanese ship. Many of the crew had an opportunity to view the sinking ship through the periscope.

Having worked up to windward to observe target better, was astonished to find the fire under control and the list corrected. Water was being pumped over the side through portable hoses. Fired another torpedo from the stern tube, but this missed. Target was dead in the water, shooting wildly with deck guns.

Crew and passengers abandoned ship, although gun crew remained at posts. Target settled about ten feet overall and then maintained its depth. Closed and fired sixth torpedo from bow tubes. This hit aft of superstructure depth.

Target still floating. Fired seventh torpedo from bow tubes. This hit with terrific concussion, but did not change trim or draft appreciably.
Fired eighth torpedo from stern tubes. This was heard to hit, but very little concussion was felt.

Getting dark. Target sinking slowly on an even keel, but still looks salvageable. There was no sign of life aboard, although it was believed gun crews had not yet abandoned ship. Wishing to dispose of it before arrival of planes or rescue ships, fired ninth torpedo. This hit right under stack and the explosion ripped away both sides of vessel about ten feet
below the main deck.

Target now settled more rapidly, the main deck being a few feet from wash condition at last observation. This vessel had absorbed seven and possibly eight torpedo hits. The cargo must have been of such nature as to prevent her from sinking more rapidly. Target was identified as the Heiyou Maru, 9,815 tons.

On retiring we found ourselves in the midst of eight boats full of survivors, approximately fifty men to each boat. These men were dressed in both white and blue uniforms. One boat was passed close aboard, and survivors made ready to hit the periscope with their oars.

[GT182]

Simulated water-tight doors will keep it afloat longer. ;)

Actually small Tramp Steamers are prone to sink with one torpedo. Larger ships will need 2 or more. To me the 1 Torpedo mod is a bit of a cheat. That's just my opinion tho.

[IcyWaters]

I am sure that is an extreme example though, Sailor Steve!

[Dogfish40]

Simulated water-tight doors will keep it afloat longer. ;)

Actually small Tramp Steamers are prone to sink with one torpedo. Larger ships will need 2 or more. To me the 1 Torpedo mod is a bit of a cheat. That's just my opinion tho.

Yeah, I go back and forth on it. I know for instance that one torpedo could sink a huge ship, it all depended on the factors. The Lusitania for instance is an obvious example. The Pacific fleet boats did the same thing as Steve mentioned. This was also because, dang it, they didn't run into as many ships as we do in this game. They ran into a lot more patrols no doubt and had to run for their lives alot more. In this sim though, we run into all kinds of merchants and convoys. So we have to use a lot more fishies. I use this mod from time to time, but, as I mentioned below, if I put one torpedo into the middle of a good sized merchant (without the mod) and hung around long enough, that ship is probably going to sink from the secondary explosions and all. It may take awhile but most of the time they are going down, if I stay around to watch.
Good Hunting :salute:

[finchOU]

I have not played SH5 extensivly yet.......but had a couple of questions reguarding ship damage from torpedos (from different MODS if they model this). I'm a firm believer in the the one Trop per ship theory when firing at a convoy. Scoring a hit would leave one to believe that if the ship did not sink....it would at least slow it down and force it out of the convoy due to flooding/drag. Historically this would happen and the wounded duck would most likely be picked off once it left the protection of the convoy. Rough Seas and bad weather would cause some undamaged ships to lose contact with the convoy as well ....becoming easy prey for lurking uboats. Is this moddled/modded at all? I know there was a time in SH3 that you would hit a ship in a 10-14 knot convoy...and it would keep on trucking with the convoy with a list and fire to boot.

I do like the fact that some ships take more time to sink.......dont like that I get the sunk message prior to most of the ship being underwater.

Again I have yet to engage a real convoy yet... (just two unescorted 4 ship convoys in 39)...so im just looking for some info.


Running these MODS right now: TDW New UI's, IRAI, OHII (and one more i cant remember cause its on my home computer)

[Sailor Steve]

I am sure that is an extreme example though, Sailor Steve!
Of course it is, but you expressed the opinion that one torpedo should sink a ship. Often it is, but if you have a look through here http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/listing.php you'll see that many times they had to give them the coup-de-grace, and sometimes more than one. some ships sank in minutes and others took hours, or even days. There were ships that didn't sink at all, and were salvaged by the crew and managed to reach shore.

I could have just said that you shouldn't expect to sink a ship with one torpedo, but I prefer to give facts and examples.

[IcyWaters]

Yes, thanks for clarifying and giving a great example!

I do understand some ships go down straight away, some take minutes, hours, days, some even so slow that they make it back to port. I guess I was wondering, on average, assuming a solid hit on a ship, one torp should cause enough damage to either sink it or at least allow the sub to finish it off with the deck gun, yes?

I am only concerned since I notice the sub carries only a few torps and so wanted to make the most use out of them --- not firing two if/when one can do the job.

[Sailor Steve]

With experience you'll begin to get a feel for the different ships and what is required to sink them. In general it depends on size, but you'll also start to sense the art of it, rather than the science. Sometimes you just say "Yep, one will do" or "I'd say three". Learing is fun. :sunny:

[GT182]

Cargo ships: One torpedo 'should' sink a Tramp Steamer and possibly a Small Tanker..... fuel onboard is the deciding factor for the Small Tankers, but usually 2 for the larger tankers will work. And 3 are usually need for the larger ships.

If you have 'duds' turned on in the Realism setting, any thing can happen. But that's the part of the sim that makes you feel like "You are Thare". The "Pucker Factor" of Realism as it was during WWII in the Atlantic.

[finchOU]

well engaged my first convoy over 10 knots (13knots) and Took four shots at four different ships with 4 hits. From about 1000-2000 meters. One transport stops and sinks...one transport is on fire and starts to flood at the stern.

The two other ships...one sinks after an hour of flooding..the floods evenly and is riding lower in the water.

Well after the initial attack and chaos that followed.....the 3 (prior to one sinking an hour later) wounded ducks managed to get back up to speed of 13 knots to zig zag away.. :0/....

the transport was very tail heavy with the bow riding up a bit...and on fire a bit. It was still making 13 knots even with a heavy stern... :0/. I guess that would be believable if the max speed of the ship wasnt 15 knots.


So I guess i'm a bit disapointed that they at least didnt slow down.....just wondering if any MODs or future MODs will address this.

[RemairTamec]

I find it really depends on where and how you hit the ship. I find that a shallow torpedo under the smoke-stack of a small cargo ship often causes a secondary explosion that breaks it in two. For larger ships I take time to identify the exact model and aim a magnetic torpedo to pass just under its keel. The initial explosion is generally rather pathetic (even causing very little damage to its hull integrity) however it steadily takes more and more damage (I beleive it is simulating the "spine" of the ship being broken and so the superstructure slowly collapsing under its own weight. With this I've one shotted 7kT ships.

Best bet for killing a ship that I've found with a single (or very few) torpedoes is to hit its bow at it is going flat out. My two capital ship kills so far have both involved this tactic, the ship ends up just planing into the sea nose first and goes down in minutes.

As for historical accuracy it seemed to vary too. I am reading a biography of a U-boat commander now (Wolfgang Luth) and he seemed to prefer two torpedoes per ship. That said he had an account of hitting a tanker with two decent hits only to have it turn and try to ram him. He narrowly dived to avoid it, giving it a third torpedo as he went, surfacing to find it sinking. Bear in mind torpedoes were not new at this point in time, so ships were designed to cope with them as much as possible.

Then again there are accounts of large warships going down with one. There was one cruiser (forgot the name of which, British though) that was hit to one side of its bow as it was going flat out. It capsized so fast it threw its bridge crew clear of the wreck.

[Webster]

So I guess i'm a bit disapointed that they at least didnt slow down.....just wondering if any MODs or future MODs will address this.

try the ship plane fire damage mod, it ads damage from fires so if a ship is on fire it will continue to get damage from it.

but even with this mod i have noticed that small fires still dont seam to have much effect at all on ships but if its a big fire it should cause the ship to sink over time

[RedTerex]

Successful Uboat Commander Erich Topp always stated " One torpedo one ship " and he never appeared to waver away from that.

[Kark]

For larger ships I take time to identify the exact model and aim a magnetic torpedo to pass just under its keel. The initial explosion is generally rather pathetic (even causing very little damage to its hull integrity) however it steadily takes more and more damage shotted 7kT ships.

Same here

Best bet for killing a ship that I've found with a single (or very few) torpedoes is to hit its bow at it is going flat out. My two capital ship kills so far have both involved this tactic, the ship ends up just planing into the sea nose first and goes down in minutes.

Same here as well, works fine for me.

Of course, when sinking a battleship with one perfect hit right at the bow which caused the munition of the two guns to explode i told myself:
"o...kay, that was lucky"

[Webster]

most ships will have the munitions bunkers between the first and second turrents on the bow and second to last turrent at the stern

[Mackmc]

I've just finished reading Memories of Johaness Spiess an U-boat commander of the I WW, and He was capable of sink 3 british battleship cruiser of 12.000 ton each in a few hours. 2 of this cruiser needed 2 torpedos but 1 was sink with just 1 torpedo. And this were battleship cruiser, I mean they were designed to resist a lot more punish that a freghter. They sink every one in less of 1 hour.

All the freighter Jonaness spiess sank needed just 1 torpedo, even though some ships required 1 or 2 shots from his canon in order to sink completely the ships.


So I think it is not realistic to need 3 torpedos to sink a tanker of 7000 t in SH5

[KleineUboot]

The damage from the torpedo mostly depends on where do you hit it. Small merchants will almost always sink after being hit with a single torpedo, most big merchants (like Cimmaron tankers and troop transports) will require at least 2 torpedoes to sink, sometimes even more (I remember a case with Cimmaron tanker near British cost, when it got 3 torpedo hits and continued to slowly sail away from my U-Boat, but I managed to finish it off later with a fourth torpedo).

[mobucks]

I sunk 2 16k ton troop transports with one torpedo each. One of them took at least two hours to sink.

[kevinsue]

Of course it is, but you expressed the opinion that one torpedo should sink a ship. Often it is, but if you have a look through here http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/listing.php you'll see that many times they had to give them the coup-de-grace, and sometimes more than one. some ships sank in minutes and others took hours, or even days. There were ships that didn't sink at all, and were salvaged by the crew and managed to reach shore.

I could have just said that you shouldn't expect to sink a ship with one torpedo, but I prefer to give facts and examples.

Next time anyone has a spare moment during a patrol, pull out the SOAN and have a read about Silent Otto's duel with three British merchants, H.M.S Patroclus, S.S. Casanare and H.M.S Laurentic.

Kapitänleutnant Kretschmer was quite astounded how these ships managed to stay afloat after so many torpedoes were expended at them. He later realised that the Brits had been filling up any spare space on board with empty oil drums to act as anti-torpedo countermeasures.:yep:

You can find the story in the SOAN additional info under Troop Transports ~ Patroclus Armed Merchant Cruiser.