Arizona Immigration Law in the hands of the Supreme Court.Ah, Scalia is the best.

[Bubblehead1980]

Even the Liberal Justices, most notably the hispanic justice Sonia Sotomayor, were calling BS on the Government during it's arguments against the Arizona Illegal Immigration Law.Scalia(of course) owned the Solicitor General again in questioning.First this, then a terrible time in arguments over Obamacare, really could be a bad summer for Barry and his pals:yeah:

Some Scalia quotes from the proceedings:

“But does the attorney general come in and say, you know, we might really only want to go after the professional bank robbers?” Scalia said. “If it’s just an amateur bank robber, you know, we’re going to let it go. And the state’s interfering with our whole scheme here because it’s prosecuting all these bank robbers.”

Scalia interrupted Solicitor General Verrilli’s absurd assertion that international factors have to be considered, saying, “So we have to enforce our laws in a manner that will please Mexico. Is that what you’re saying?”

[soopaman2]

Being one of the boards liberals, I will say there is nothing wrong with Arizonas law.

If I shoplift, steal,rape, kill, or cheat someone and get caught.
I will do time.

Swim across the Rio Grande, or jump a fence. Find another mexi to mate with, have an anchor baby, and live on the government teat for life.

On my tax money.

People like me get more and more taken from them. So the government can selectivly enforce laws.

This is not even a partisan issue, but a way of life issue.

Go on, line up to call me a bigot, I am still waiting for La Raza to get the same amount of recognition as a hate organization as the defunct KKK , and inactive (on a hatemongering front) nation Of Islam.

Damn I agreed with Bubblehead, I must be a bigot now. Thats ok, America money for Americans first, not Mexicans, Pakis, or Afghanis.

Edit: I bet I get in more trouble for a joint, than an illegal does for being here.

[Catfish]

Hey you still need Mexico to get the drugs from the other southern Americas through to the US.
Making CIA helicopters and boats refuel at the gulf's drilling rigs becomes more and more difficult. A liberated Cuba, would be an idea.
[/cynism]

[yubba]

The laws are on the books, enforce them, if you have a problem enforceing them, we can hire someone that will, that's why we have elections, if that's a problem, we can always opt out of paying for services not being renderd. As of now, I won't use the Bank of America or own a Chevy.

[Sailor Steve]

Swim across the Rio Grande, or jump a fence. Find another mexi to mate with, have an anchor baby, and live on the government teat for life.

On my tax money.
A great many illegals come here, get jobs, live productive lives and pay taxes.

I'm not sayin' that makes it legal, and I'm not sayin' that makes it right.

I'm just sayin'.

A lot of people born here live on the government dole too, including myself.

Oh, and I also agree with Arizona's law.

[Penguin]

A great many illegals come here, get jobs, live productive lives and pay taxes.


So do legals. ;)

Being a relative of a permanent resident, I consider giving illegals a slack as a slap into the faces of all legal immigrants.

If the economy needs more immigrants, one should overhaul the immigration laws. Though, businesses don't care where an employee comes from, but are in desire for people who work for pennies. As a welcome side effect it also puts pressure on legal workers, keeps their preposterous demands - like fair wages or labor rights - down.

Nothing against the individuals who try to get a better live, they just do what most of us would do when living in poverty. They are the ones who get the short end of the stick from all stick holders.

[CaptainHaplo]

I consider giving illegals a slack as a slap into the faces of all legal immigrants.

^ THIS

My mother is a naturalized citizen - all the hard work and effort, hours of studying learning our history, our government and our language (not too hard bc she was born in Germany - but still), and someone who wants to sneak across a border ILLEGALLY and then expects that everyone should just turn a blind eye - its insane.

[CaptainMattJ.]

as if allowing them to come here and take jobs that most american ADULTS may not have wanted to do, but now with the massive tuition hikes and cost of living up, that i could find you a teen practically anywhere willing to work for minimum wage. I am one of them. Its potentially going to cost me, in the end, 100,000 dollars to finish getting my college degree. ANYTHING in between now and the diploma that can earn me a salary is absolutely welcome.

But thats something that is beyond my reach currently. beyond the reach of MANY citizens that cant find work based on the fact that Illegals are causing incredible over-saturation of the Job market. No one said life would be easy, not in any way, but no one ever said that theyd STRIVE to make it harder just to allow some people to selectively break law because theyre afraid of being deemed racist. OH, and here in California now, we have the DREAM ACT. A bill that will take scholarship money from the CITIZENS and allow illegals to access it instead. It ALSO makes the citizen have a much harder time enrolling.

Not to mention that the MILLIONS that have illegally immigrated are causing the standard of living to take a hit. in many areas. Many illegals live in poverty,which means increased crime as well as overall standards of living going down, plus the families that have to completely lower their expectations to compete with illegal immigrants working for pennies, also lowering standards. And then theres the fact that many people cant find jobs, leaving THEM in poverty, which increases welfare rates and also lowers overall standard of living. All of this poverty and low wages tends to produce crime, and welfare costs, and general poor conditions.


I hope that Arizona wins this ridiculous, futile attempt to tell a state what they can and cant do regarding state policy on grounds that have ZERO foundation, like the argument the illegals throw. Some throw arguments about their anchor babies, some throw arguments about their rights (which they have no entitlement to anyways because they arent citizens), ect.

I hope that Arizona wins because it will show that we CAN win the fight against the immigration standards, and it might encourage more states to act justly. On this issue, im completely parted from the kumbaya democrats.

[Sailor Steve]

So do legals. ;)
Yes they do, but you seem to have missed my point. I don't like illegals at all, but the post I commented on seemed to express the opinion that all illegals are lazy slackers looking for a free ride. I addressed that idea only, and nothing else. In everything else you said we are in complete agreement.

[Tribesman]

@CaptainMattJ.
Some throw arguments about their anchor babies, some throw arguments about their rights (which they have no entitlement to anyways because they arent citizens), ect.

Think about that line.

@Soopa
I will say there is nothing wrong with Arizonas law.

I will say there is plenty wrong with Arizonas law, I will say the same as I said when it was put up...it isn't workable.

[CaptainMattJ.]

@CaptainMattJ.

Think about that line.
AH! its sort of a play on words. I meant to say them separately.

As in, their argument for anchor babies may be valid under the constitution, but it doesnt mean its a good argument for coming here illegally

And seperate from the previous statement, some illegal immigrants not born here try to argue that its somehow their right to be here and such, however they arent US citizens and therefore do not qualify for protection of their rights under the constitution (AFAIK)


unless you were trying to point something else out that i missed?

[Tribesman]

unless you were trying to point something else out that i missed?
What you missed was that everyone has rights even criminals, illegal immigrants and non citizens.
I am curious as to what you mean by...."some illegal immigrants not born here try to argue that its somehow their right to be here and such"....could you elaborate on those attempted arguements and what specific rights they are trying to claim?

[Sailor Steve]

Appart from the misstatement about "illegal immigrants not born here" (it's kind of hard to be an immigrant to the country you were born in) I have to agree with Matt. Yes, immigrants, even illegal ones, have certain rights. One of those rights is not to enter another country illegally. If I come to Ireland I still have the right to travel freely. I also have the right to medical care if I need it. I don't have the right to actually be there, and your government does have the right to kick me out if they want to. If I sneak in I have no right to travel freely or to anything else but arrest and deportation. I think that's what CaptainMattJ was trying to say.

[Tribesman]

(it's kind of hard to be an immigrant to the country you were born in)
Its also kinda hard to deport someone from the country where they are from, that would be exile wouldn't it.

If I sneak in I have no right to travel freely or to anything else but arrest and deportation.
But even arrest and deportation have attatched rights.

I think that's what CaptainMattJ was trying to say.
Like I said, I am just curious about which specific rights he is on about people claiming.

As you mention Ireland, we had this thing about Illegal immigrants which built into a big popular issue, instead of just enforcing the law as it stood the government went through all the trouble of amending the Constitution to "solve" the problem and making a few new laws.....but they still don't bother enforcing the law and the silly amendment actually gives grief to citizens and legal residents exercising their rights.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Its also kinda hard to deport someone from the country where they are from, that would be exile wouldn't it.


But even arrest and deportation have attatched rights.


Like I said, I am just curious about which specific rights he is on about people claiming.

As you mention Ireland, we had this thing about Illegal immigrants which built into a big popular issue, instead of just enforcing the law as it stood the government went through all the trouble of amending the Constitution to "solve" the problem and making a few new laws.....but they still don't bother enforcing the law and the silly amendment actually gives grief to citizens and legal residents exercising their rights.
Yes, that was the point i was trying to make

As far as them claiming their rights, many have argued that they have the right not only to be here illegally, but that they deserve the full rights and benefits of a citizen. Rights that they arent entitled to because they are not citizens and therefore arent protected under the constitution. Rights such as their right to health care, enrollment, work, property. The works.


The courts, however, seem to disagree. It infuriated me when i was shown what they had passed. Essentially they have made it so that almost every SINGLE right granted to citizens can be applied to illegals because theyve played the wording the Constitution to the point where as long as the state has juridiction over the person, they are granted most all rights as would be granted to a citizen.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/illegalrights.htm

They need to seriously amend the 14th amendment. It blows my mind that people can circumvent the amendment so incredibly easily. The amendment was put there to protect blacks from having their citizenship questioned, not to allow these illegal immigrants free citizenshinship because they hop the border and maybe drop an anchor baby.

[Tribesman]

Essentially they have made it so that almost every SINGLE right granted to citizens can be applied to illegals because theyve played the wording the Constitution to the point where as long as the state has juridiction over the person, they are granted most all rights as would be granted to a citizen.

See the important words there, "almost" puts CAPS LOCK into very very small letters, "jurisdiction" is very important too as that confers rights in both directions, and "most all" waters down your objection even further.
It isn't something new, that chinese ruling is well over 100 years old so anyones entitlement to rights within the jurisdiction are well established.

As to your 14th amendment, they amended the constition here over the same issue, it still doesn't do what they wanted and in fact makes it worse for citizens.

[soopaman2]

As to your 14th amendment, they amended the constition here over the same issue, it still doesn't do what they wanted and in fact makes it worse for citizens.

The purpose of the 14th amendment is irrelevant today. It was instituted to protect the rights of freed slaves, and to nullify the Dred Scott SCOTUS decision that stated slaves were not guaranteed rights under the constitution.

I do not see how it applies to fencejumpers, and good swimmers, who manage to spawn sproglets here.
Not being critical of your post, or judging your side, simply using your quote to make a point.:sunny:

[Tribesman]

Not being critical of your post, or judging your side,
Which side?
My objection to the bill are the same as when it was put through.
That it isn't workable, and also that it will be too expensive.
So which side does that put me on?
In favour of active and effective action against illegals, with a side serving of fiscal conservative.:hmmm:

simply using your quote to make a point.
A similar point, writing in changes that don't really do what they are meant to do that also have effects they were not meant to have.

[soopaman2]

I just did not want you to think my quote of your post, was to dispute or attack. I have been trying to be nicer to my fellow forumites recently, as at times I have not always been.:oops: