Career Change

[Onkel Neal]

Most of you know I worked in the chemical industry for many years, starting out as a lowly hourly operator and I worked my way up to Plant Control technician, where I ran a Caustic process plant. I moved to the Marine Dept and manual labor again to make more money (unlimted overtime). I did that for about 7 years, then went back to college and got a degree in accounting--then took a job in the Houston office.

At the 30 year mark, I left the chemical industry and went back to college to get a degree in hospitality management, based in part on my activities with the website and dealing with people. I thought a job as a hotel manager would be interesting and rewarding. I graduated in Dec 2010 and was fortunate to land a role as the Manager on Duty at the Crowne Plaze Hotel, under an excellent GM, a man I have a lot of respect for.

How different things can be in concept and reality! I found the job challenging but I was not prepared to fill in as a front desk agent for 10~12 hours a day. I could handle the guest issues and complaints, in fact, I think everyone thought I did that very well. I was getting excellent feedback from guests in the surveys. But 6 months after I started, the front office manager (who had a lot of pressure on him to work with reduced staff) quit. They asked me to fill in his role as well as mine. Which was fine, I would learn more and get some additional experience. Unfortunately, some of the people I had to work with were unusual, severe, and challenging. Can't say it was just me, the hotel as a body had issues with the other managers in question. I kept it to myself and did my best to elicit cooperation from my employees. Just as the previous FO manager, I was expected to do the FO manager job, MOD job, and work as a front desk agent, with reduced staff. What does reduced staff mean? It means you have 1 or 2 front desk agents, when you really need 3 or 4 to get to guests in a timely manner and not rush them. There were routine times when the airport would dump 40~60 guests on the hotel from a cancelled flight, in addition to the guest with reservations, and we would be working without pause, including constantly answering phones two or three calls at a time, for literally 6 hours without pause.

That was not what I signed up for. :smug: I could not give my guests the star treatment we routinely promise them in our mission statement and PR. In addition to the grief the other managers were dealing out, I decided to try my luck either at another hotel, or another industry. I am pretty bad about having too many interests and not enough focus on one, so I knew this would be a task. What to do?

First I took a few weeks and spent time with my kids, who were at the point of telling me I looked a lot like their father. I also was happy to point my motorcycle in other directions that the 45 minute commute to north Houston every day.

After some serious thought, I have decided I want to teach. I have dreamed of this idea in the past--originally when I went to college for accounting, I was going to go for history and science so I could teach. But the Ms Stevens at the time screamed a fit when she realized my earning power would be greatly diminished as a teacher, so I went with accounting.

I have completed two of the biggest hurdles, 1. I have been accepted into a Teacher training program, and 2. I passed my Content exam in math, science, language, and social studies. Believe me, that was pretty daunting. This test was a killer, but I got my scores today and I did pretty well. The math and science refresher work will continue through the summer, though. Cannot be too prepared.

So, barring anything terrible, like not being able to find a job, I should be in the classroom this August, with the responsibilty of educating young students, helping them learn classroom procedures, and inspiring them to enjoy the process of learning and becoming educated. I suffer no illusions, the final outcome of this latest venture will be determined as time passes, but I am excited to finally get into a career where I can talk about the Battle of Gonzales and the Tokugawa isolationist policies now.

Tak, I know you're a teacher, any advice? Any other teachers out there?

[August]

I am. :salute:

[Penguin]

Though I am no teacher, which makes many kids happy I guess, I wish you good luck for your next career step! :salute:
I like the spirit to start something new and fresh and not stick to the trade one has learned even if one is not happy with it. Also it's good to "stand on a second leg" like the Germans say, so in case of an economic downfall of one industry, you have something else to get the dough.
I am in a similar sit now, will lose my job in the TV industry soon, with switching my career hopefully into a more IT-related field.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Wow, good luck with it - what age range do you want to teach?

My wife's a teacher - at my old school - so I know how much time they can put in, it's not just 9-3 and 20 weeks holiday (although I do constantly rib her about those). Her working is the reason I get so little online time. :-?
She loves it though.

Again, good luck -

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9973/kinopoiskrukindergarten.jpg

[mookiemookie]

Unfortunately, some of the people I had to work with were unusual, severe, and challenging.

Your time in General Topics should have prepared you very well for that. :woot:

Good luck on your career change...it's like they say, do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life.

[stoppro]

Both my parents were teachers- mother taught elementry shcool and my dad high school lots of highs and lows dealing with administration being the worst.JUst before he retired my dad broke-up a knife fight and got himself stabbed in the process(not too serious) but it confirmed his decision to retire.my mother is retired too but she would go back anytime.long as it wasn't middle shcool(she calls it the pits) too many smart-asses I guess. try and find a private school. I is a big step. be careful. again Good luck in your new adventure!

[Garion]

I was a computer science lecturer for 10 years teaching everything from special needs basic numeracy to Postgrad lets create a doomsday device :D

Teaching is not for everyone and the dream can be shattered if you let the bureaucracy and internal academic politics get yoo down. I stayed well clear of them, just smiled politely and walked away when they reared their ugly head.

If you have a passion for your subject and can get the knowledge across to your students in an interesting way then yoo are off to a good start.

Your sanity, will of course take a tumble at times though, 'That's Guaranteed':woot:

Cheers

Garion

[kiwi_2005]

I would say go for it Neal:up: Teaching in NZ is an underpaid stressful job but NZ ain't the USA.

I change my job every couple of years have been doing this for about 10yrs now and this is the way I like to work. My new job is working for the Kiwifruit industry night shift work 6pm to 3:30am as the lab technician checking for deformities in the kiwifruit, pay is not that great but the work environment is, our staff is a combination of different nationalities - Vanuata, Chinese, Spanish, German and even a Puerto Rico family. The Vanuatu people think the pay is fantastic as they get near to nothing in their homeland compared to what we pay them here. These people come here every yr to work in Kiwifruit (runs for 8months of the year) to make some money then they head back to their country, that's why we have different nationalities working and its the best part of the job meeting these people. During our smoko breaks its a culture shock with all the different languages. :DL Oh and Puerto Rico woman are beautiful! :DL

[STEED]

Neal, the only advice I can give you is this..

If you got any common sense don't come to the UK and teach.

I mean it!
:03::haha:

[Dowly]

Good luck, Neal!

Something tells me you're going to need it... :O:

[Skybird]

I were teacher in two functions, but only in a wider sense, not an academic teacher. First it was meditation, and second combat trainer for security personell (which went terribly wrong).

From the first, this: the real important things to learn, people do not learn if you give it to them in advance, on a silver plate. Let them come to ask the right questions first. In other words, don'T teach in advance so much, but answer questions. It is important for a student to find the right questions first. You can form a library of blueprinted answers and prepared solutions when being given learning content on a silver plate, and memorising that - but that does not automatically mean you truly understand the matter, and any problem for which there is no solution in your memory has a good chance to throw you off your tracks. True understanding of a matter always is a systemic approach. By the way you answer the questions raised by your students by themselves, you can influence the focus of their attention on what you think is important for them, you can inspire their confidence and increase their competence. Do not mark the target for them. Let them discover the matter themselves.

From the second: I overestimated a trainees' capability, and accidently almost killed him, injured him very badly instead. Terrible experience for him, and for me as well. Lesson to be learned from that: do challenge your students, but do not overcharge them, and do not take skills as granted - make sure they are there before basing on them. Else you at least waste your time, and the good preparation for the next lesson that you spend all night over, will be wasted.

I currently read a book by Monty Roberts, the guy with the horses, From my hands to yours. I read it just for curiosity and interest, unfortunately I have nothing to do with horses. There he answered a question somebody asked him, the question was something like what he has learned from his work with horses, and he replied with "What I learned from horses is to be friendly with horses and humans alike".

For most situations that probably is good advise.



If you want to build a ship,
don't drum up the men to gather wood,
divide the work and give orders.
Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.

Antoine de Saint Exupéry


P.S.

I'm probably hopelessly idealistic there, but then, I lack the experience of having taught in an academic context. But I knew several teachers, and my diploma paper was on teachers' motivation (amongst others). The sister and the husband of a good girlfriend of mine, my grandfather, several people I had some contact with from university times, and a good friend of my mother all were teachers, or still are - and they all died of cancer and before their time, or were or are cursing about the sad reality in schools.

I thought I charge your idealistic immune system a bit before shooting you down with the sad truth about teaching! :D

[Stealhead]

Both my mother and my sister are teachers (mom retired after 35 years) they both enjoy it my mother taught mostly 7th or 8th grade English later she had 6th grade reading.My sister did special education a very hard field no matter what but if you have nack for working with and helping these types of students it can be rewarding now she teaches 4th grade.

I would agree that alot of it has to do with administration you have to be under the right people to do well/enjoy the work.Of course I have heard many teachers admit that it took them a year sometimes two to be sure they where cut out for the job or not.Of course both my mother and sister had very good first administrators and that helps greatly because you build a reputation that way which is good.

In the end though it is one of those jobs you really have to work in for a year or so before you know for sure if you will enjoy it.My mother said she really felt like she had made a poor choice most of her first year and then one day it just kind all feel into place and she enjoyed it they basically made her retire actually she was in the state DROP retirement program and they got tired of her extending year after year.

Also you get the summer off not shabby.

[nikimcbee]

Neal, try and find a course on "education and the law." That will give you some great prep for your legal responsibilites as an educator.:dead:

Second, I learned the hard way, that history teachers are a dime a dozen, so diversify your certification. Certify in math or science and you'll be a shoe in. Maybe even Spanish.

Be ready to be forced to teach things you're not certified in.:shifty: You may sign up for History/social studies, but you may wind up teaching other things you won't enjoy.

One of the ways to get your foot in the door is to substitute teach. If a principal likes you, they might hire you on if they like you or need you bad enough.
I saved all of my textbooks on teching/lesson prep, but they are for foreign languages.




Oh, wait, just thought of this. With your background in petrochemical industry, you would make a great chemestry teacher.
Build on your work experience and background.

[sharkbit]

Best of luck in your career change. :salute:

I've entertained thoughts of a career change at times but I've just never had the kahones to do it. It is a scary thought with a house, wife, and two young kids.

:)

[RickC Sniper]

Neal, you are one of the most diplomatic and best "conflict resolvers" I have ever encountered.

You will be great at this.

[CaptainHaplo]

Congrats and good luck...

Just remember than you can't throw the young people in the Brig or Keelhaul em!

[Dowly]

Just remember than you can't throw the young people in the Brig or Keelhaul em!

Oh sure you can. :O:

[nikimcbee]

What are the hoops you need to jump through to get a teacher's cert in Texas?

[Onkel Neal]

For most situations that probably is good advise.



If you want to build a ship,
don't drum up the men to gather wood,
divide the work and give orders.
Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.

Antoine de Saint Exupéry




Thanks, that is exactly how I feel. :rock:






Also you get the summer off not shabby.

Counting on that

Neal, try and find a course on "education and the law." That will give you some great prep for your legal responsibilites as an educator.:dead:

Second, I learned the hard way, that history teachers are a dime a dozen, so diversify your certification. Certify in math or science and you'll be a shoe in. Maybe even Spanish.

Be ready to be forced to teach things you're not certified in.:shifty: You may sign up for History/social studies, but you may wind up teaching other things you won't enjoy.




I am going for Generalist 4-8, so I will be able to teach subjects in Science, Social Studies, Language Arts, and Math. If all goes well, I plan to get some more hours in History and add that certification.


Neal, you are one of the most diplomatic and best "conflict resolvers" I have ever encountered.

You will be great at this.

Aww.... thanks :salute:

Congrats and good luck...

Just remember than you can't throw the young people in the Brig or Keelhaul em!

Wait, what? :dead:

Somehow I have to find a nautical theme to my classroom management structure. We have to have the Brig in there somewhere.

[nikimcbee]

Ok, pick 3-4 Districts you'd like to be a part of and go (at some point) meet all of the history teachers and offer to volunteer or sub for them.

I found my substitute teaching flyer. I'll scan it and post it for you. You'll get a good laugh. That flier was a direct hit for me. It generated a lot of work for me.

[Jimbuna]

Nice one Neal....as you know I entered into a career change at about the age you are.

My advice would be to focus on the element you are most interested in and never look back.

It is often a case of ...horses for courses.

Good luck my friend but I'm sure you won't need it :sunny:

[u crank]

Best of luck in your new career Neal.

If you teach like you run this forum, you will do just fine.:salute:

[Takeda Shingen]

Hi Neal. Congratulations on the choice of career. It is the most rewarding line of work that I know of. That being said, there is some straight dope that you need to know about teaching in today's educational climate.

I am not completely aware of the situation in Texas, but I am betting it is a whole lot like teaching in Pa. The system is supposed to work by having new teachers apply to substitute with individual school districts. Most of the districts in my area use a program called AESOP. You'll go for an interview and if accepted, you will be admitted as a per diem substitute. You are essentially a headhunter. Jobs will appear through a desktop app and you can either accept or reject them. You need fast fingers, as all of the other per diems will be watching too. The days of individual phone calls and asking the teachers to be a sub are long gone. Districts like this automated system because it is not labor intensive.

Once they get to know you, a substitute can be promoted to a permanent per diem (PPD). This means that you are guaranteed work every day. You are a known quantity to the district and will be used to fill the holes before the remainder goes out to the regular per diems. PPDs are then promoted to building subs, who are PPDs but only for a specific building, and often only for a particular subject. These are the people that get contacted directly by building administrators and teachers for availability. They work at the school every day, they have building ID tags and they are usually union employees with bennefits. They are also the first people taken into consideration for regular teaching positions, even before the jobs are posted to the public (called promoting from within). Ultimately, think of it as a series of concentric circles where you are looking to jump from each circle to the one closer to the center.

Well, that is how the system is supposed to work. Sadly, in today's economic climate, this is not happening. School districts are strapped for cash; canceling programs, eliminating positions and still running in the red. Because of this, many departments are running at a minus one, two or even three personnel deficit. In other words, they are not replacing the retiring teachers. Rather, the classes are covered by exsiting teachers. The end result is that the system is backlogged. Since districts are not filling these positions, no substitutes are being promoted; all while more entry-level per diems flood the system each semester. It is the worst that I have ever seen it.

My advice is to do the opposite of what has been offered in the thread. Do not spread yourself between a large number of districts. You will get more work, but you want to concentrate on a single district, or two at the most. You need to work there as much as possible. You have to be seen there, they have to get to know you and they have to see that you are good.

Do not make flyers. No one will read them because no one cares. Register with your state's online educational job service (PAREAP is the one for Pennsylvania). You will see districts post for substitute positions available there. They will probably hire you on the spot. My substitute interview was less than 10 minutes long. Subs are a dime a dozen, and they are usually not too picky about the per diems. This gets you in the door to practice your new vocation.

Lastly, never teach any subject just because you think there may be jobs available. You've worked jobs that have left you wanting something more rewarding. Being a teacher will be the hardest job that you have ever had. You need to deal with something that you love or you will burn out in a matter of a few years, if not less. If you want to teach social studies, then try to get the social studies jobs. If you are not getting those type of sub jobs, then do a great job in what you are teaching for the day, but be sure to drop the line that SS is your passion.

If you do those things, you will stand a great job of eventually cutting through the noise and clutter and getting that permanent teaching job. Your competition will be comprised of mostly 23-year-olds who are completely wet behind the ears in regard to real life, as well as older teachers permanently stuck in the per diem phase because they just couldn't hack it as a regular. It won't be easy, and it may take as long as two years, but you will eventually rise to the top.

Good luck and feel free to ask me anything at any time!

[Skybird]

Neal,

Just curious, you said "history and sciences", and you said "social studies".

What eras and places of history is your focus of interest?

What means "sciences" in American schools? Do you get taught physics, chemistry, biology alltogether in once course of that name, or is it a course specialising on methodology and such? In Germany you cannot study a branch named "(general) sciences" and there also are no classes named like that. Also, in Germany teachers for the most specialise and later teach in just two fields, let's say English and History.

And what exactly refers "social studies" to? Social psychology? Sociology?

Just curious.


Tak,

I have no doubt you were truthful and realistic, but your description has the same effect on me like the descriptions from teachers I know here in Germany. If I would have looked to become a teacher, after these descriptions I would not feel any motivation to become a teacher anymore. :hmmm:

Here in Germany, school teachers get brought down by being overregulated by the ministries in what to teach and when, and by immense correcting work to be done at home. It seems the problem in your country is more to just get a foot into the door, and keep it there?!

What is the motivation to become school teacher in such an environment as you described?

[Takeda Shingen]

Hi Sky.

Well, it's not about regulation per se. Districts are all about their financial bottom line. They need to pay someone to read resumes and flyers that are sent to them. As such, they no longer read unsolicited paperwork; sending them packets like people used to only results in full recycling boxes. By only making calls for substitues when needed and using paperless applications and resumes, they save themselves time and money, as the district doesn't even have to call you or mail you to let you know that you were not selected. This allows them to cut back on office staff as well, which most districts are also doing. Instead, you just don't hear from them again.

In terms of having to move through various circles to get the job, it also makes sense for the district. There is a wide descrepancy in the ability of prospective teachers. Instead of hiring someone you just met, they would rather have you work through more menial assignments in order to gauge your performance. And yes, while it is good for them, it stinks for you the new teacher. It certainly sounds grim, but it is how the game is played nowadays. That aside, good teachers will continue to rise to the top, even if it takes years instead of months now.

[nikimcbee]

My advice is to do the opposite of what has been offered in the thread. Do not spread yourself between a large number of districts. You will get more work, but you want to concentrate on a single district, or two at the most. You need to work there as much as possible. You have to be seen there, they have to get to know you and they have to see that you are good.

Do not make flyers. No one will read them because no one cares. Register with your state's online educational job service (PAREAP is the one for Pennsylvania). You will see districts post for substitute positions available there. They will probably hire you on the spot. My substitute interview was less than 10 minutes long. Subs are a dime a dozen, and they are usually not too picky about the per diems. This gets you in the door to practice your new vocation.


:haha:
Fluffy, you crack me up sometimes.

@Neal
Research the districts you'd like to be in. Not all districts are equal, but focus on the ones you'd like to be a part of.
If you go the substitute teacher route, make some flyers or business cards (promoting your skill set how much you love history) and hand deliver them to every history teacher in the district(s). Shake their hand and they will read them. This is what I did and I had several teachers I subbed for on a consistant basis.:rock: Several day assignment turned into long term assignments and the preferred substitute.:D

[Takeda Shingen]

:haha:
Fluffy, you crack me up sometimes.

Nice. If you would like to offer as to why that advice is wrong, I would gladly entertain. What I said is how it works. Otherwise, please stop crapping up the thread to get at me. It is uncalled for.

[nikimcbee]

@SB
The requirements to become certified in the US vary greatly state by state. Some states all you need is a 4 year degree:dead:, others there is an extensive certification process to go through.

[nikimcbee]

Nice. If you would like to offer as to why that advice is wrong, I would gladly entertain. What I said is how it works. Otherwise, please stop crapping up the thread to get at me. It is uncalled for.

ditto.

[Onkel Neal]

@ Tak and Nikki, I appreciate the advice. Even though the sets of advice you each presented is different from each other, I'm sure it is appropriate for the situations you have dealt with, it all can be applied depending on the school district and situation. With all the changes since I was in public school, it is welcome. :salute: PA sounds like a tough place to get a job as a teacher. I guess that means there is no shortage?

In Texas, there is an Alternative Certification program (http://www.sbec.state.tx.us/SBECOnline/certinfo/becometeacher.asp?width=1680&height=1050#basicreq) for people with a bachelor's degree that meets a minimum GPA. You have to be accepted into a training program and pass the content exam, which is why there are empty champagne bottles everywhere here now :rock: I will receive 10 weeks of pedegogy training and then complete a bunch of observation hours. If all goes well, I can apply for jobs in the school district and I will be the teacher of record when school starts this August. Scary, huh? . The program I am in is run by the school district, with the aim of developing new teachers for their schools.


SB, from grades 4-8 (ages 9 -14), general science is taught, which combines geology, astronomy, chemistry, and biology (depending the the state and school).

Social Studies is primarily history, government, economics. I do not have a designated area of focus in history, but to teach in middle and high school, primarily US and Texas history are emphasized. I believe there is a substantial portion of European history also. I know in college, 2 courses of US history are all that are required.

[Takeda Shingen]

@ Tak and Nikki, I appreciate the advice. Even though the sets of advice you each presented is different from each other, I'm sure it all can be applied depending on the school district and situation. With all the changes since I was in public school, it is welcome. :salute:

In Texas, there is an Alternative Certification program (http://www.sbec.state.tx.us/SBECOnline/certinfo/becometeacher.asp?width=1680&height=1050#basicreq) for people with a bachelor's degree that meets a minimum GPA. You have to be accepted into a training program and pass the content exam, which is why there are empty champagne bottles everywhere here now :rock: I will receive 10 weeks of pedegogy training and then complete a bunch of observation hours. If all goes well, I can apply for jobs in the school district. The program I am in is run by the school district, with the aim of developing new teachers for their schools.


SB, from grades 4-8 (ages 9 -14), general science is taught, which combines geology, astronomy, chemistry, and biology (depending the the state and school).

Social Studies is primarily history, government, economics. I do not have a designated area of focus in history, but to teach in middle and high school, primarily US and Texas history are emphasized. I believe there is a substantial portion of European history also. I know in college, 2 courses of US history are all that are required.

That changes things for you. If you are in a district-sponsored program, you will likely be able to skip the per diem phase of employment. They are going to be familiar with you through your student teaching and observation hours. In that case I would reccomend seeking to sub in that district only. They have put money into your training and will anticipate returns. As such, you could be working as a regular teacher much sooner than the two year window that I originally laid out, and your path will be an easier one.

Pennsylvania does not offer these types of programs, which I have found odd given the fact that most building administrators that I know are always wishing that they did exsist. It always makes me wonder who the school board and the district administration are listening to if not their own people.

In PA, no, there is no shortage but rather an olympic-sized surplus of teachers. I do not envy the young men and women who come out of school looking for jobs now.

[Onkel Neal]

Lol, I ninja-edited my post on you, Tak.

Yes, if all goes well and I seem to be a viable candidate, I could get a job in August.

[nikimcbee]

Are you going to look mainly in the Pearland area?

[Onkel Neal]

Close by, yes. Pasadena.

[Skybird]

SB, from grades 4-8 (ages 9 -14), general science is taught, which combines geology, astronomy, chemistry, and biology (depending the the state and school).
We do not have that. No astronomy courses (at best a voluntary working group). No geology at all. Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math all have their separate courses.

Heck you cannot even study astronomy at unioversity here, it remains to be an voluntary - and very small - course of a general physics studium. A shame.

Geography also is a separate school course in Germany.

But we have an experiment with regular and mandatory (!) chess classes in a small, but growing number of schools. An initiative by Kasparov. Skybird approves it! :D The idea is to make students learn independently, train themselves in study and analysis techniques, patience and self-discipline as well as logical thinking and most important: precise, exact calculation. In Armenia, all state-run schools have that as an obligatory school course. Very good idea, imo.

Social Studies is primarily history, government, economics.
Ah, at my time that was called "Politische Weltkunde". :) History again a separate course over here. I think it makes sense to keep the three together, like in your place. How can you separate history from the three you mentioned?

[nikimcbee]

Cool. Another thing I just thought of, Does U of H offer any Texas Studies/ History? Even if you are pretty sharp on Texas history, it would be good to get something official on the resume:D Maybe add a US Civics class to that too. If you don't have time to take all those classes, look into an "independent study" class(es). You can do these (independent study classes) as fast or slow as you want. Maybe you could look into the U of T, they probably have classes you could take.

Try to diversify your social studies skill set. If you have a strong background in history (World studies/US), Texas history and US civics, you'll be in a position to teach whatever they need you to teach. Plus, if you can manage the students well, you're a shoe-in:D

Oh, just thought of this, check for the demand for Social Studies teachers in your area. Find out what the district needs, and learn that skill.:know:

[nikimcbee]

@Skybird,

Could you explain briefly how the German school system works.
Meaning with Realschule, Hochschule(?), and Gymnasium.:D

[August]

Good for you Neal. Teaching can be very, very trying but also equally rewarding.

[nikimcbee]

Good for you Neal. Teaching can be very, very trying but also equally rewarding.

Jar my memory August, what kind of teaching do you do? Isn't it vocatioal training/teaching?

[August]

Jar my memory August, what kind of teaching do you do? Isn't it vocatioal training/teaching?

Yep. I teach a six month course preparing students for careers in the Telecommunications field.

[Skybird]

@Skybird,

Could you explain briefly how the German school system works.
Meaning with Realschule, Hochschule(?), and Gymnasium.:D

Briefly? :D

It is a disaster.

One reform chases the next since the late 80s, plenty of silly actionism, ideological trench warfare, and worse: the fallout of the 68-leftheads and their damn "Erlebnispädagogik" and the older branch of the very german "Reformpädagogik". School types got dissolved, combined, and in some places they already have reversed again. Plenty of left-leaning utopia colliding with practical reality not caring for left utopias.

Originally, we had "Grundschule", class 1-4, then a selection for either Hauptschule from class 5-10, or Realschule classes 5-13, or Gymnasium classes 5-13. Expect in Berlin, where the Grundschule was from class 1-6, and the higher schools followed from class 7 on.

The curricula got chnaged again and again, in genneral to make it easier for the students. By that one wants to rasie the statistics on notes: same notes as before for worse performance, or better notes for just the same performance. Voila: the PISA score climbs! We have an idiotic orthography reform that nobody needed and that does some serious raping to parts of the German language. The general school duration now has been dropped to 12 years, no more a class 13. But the curricula have not been thinned out, also have not been modernised. They now spend 1,5 to 2 times as many hours at school than we had to at my times.

The Hauptschule for the most got combined with the Realschule, and the Gymnasium now gets called Primärschule or something like that. There is a more and more blocking ammount of administrative interference that just is meant to please the ideologic claims of left pedagogues or the narcisstic craving for attention of politics - and there are plenty! 16 federal states need to find consensus over anything. It is a drama.

To these peoples' disapppointment, citizens and parents more and more revolt against these endless leftist reforms and padagogic "optimisations". In some places they have boycottred new school forms, and the examples seems to serve as a precedent for others. Those who can afford it send their kids to priovate school, amongst these are many secular-thinking Turks represrnting a social class of Turkish "Bildungsbürgertum" - and this is seen by the left as almost treachery, since they claim to act on behalf of the disadvantaged and the migrants. But educated Turkish families have understood not to trust the public schools anymore. Richer German families follow there example.

In metropoles, Haupt-, Real- und Sekundarschulen with a high share of children from Muslim migrant families have big troubles.

Asian migrants who traditionally invest much energy into the education of their offsprings and are more ambitious than native germans usually are, also try to avoid such critical "migrant schools". From these places, the word "Deutschenfeindlichkeit" and "Deutschenmobbing" has entered contemporary german language, to the horror of certain political dreamdancers.

Also: too few teachers, high standards of school hours missing. The teachers I know all are extremly disilluniosed, sayin g they see themselves as correcting machien sand confernece bots only. There is no more room for ideals or creative approaches, everything gets regulated from higher levels of adminsitration, and notes need to be given according to demand by< the school officials, so that the school meats the wanted average scores in mean notes. Notes are not necessarily related to actual test performqanc eanymore, but to either the notes needed so that the student does not fail, or to the school ranking that needs to be achieved.

That leads to asburd exmaples I know of, got told perosnally by teachers. The director demanding that a terst with 11 errors should be rated with an A grade. That a student with nornmally five E's or F's on the year's final school report should be nolted in a way, that the F's disappeared and the E's turn into D so that he makes it into the next higher class.

It's not all in ruins, though, there are still some acceptable schools left, and good teachers hopefully too. But I deeply mistrust these Gesamtschulen and Sekundärschulen. Many of the former Gymnasiums do acceptably well, though. Ligfht and shadow, but the shdows have grown since my school time, and by a large portion. Generally I see the tendency in Gerjman school quality poessimistic, and all teachers I know and the feedback from their colleagues cionfirm me in that.

If you want to know why this has happened, read this nice book I just finsihed, "Die Stunde der Dilettanten" by Thomas Rietzschel. Brilliant analysis, and extremely well written. The disaster of German education and the fundament of this trend, the German reform-pedagogic movement, get full broadsides and broadsides in it.

I personally do not leave a single detail in pedagogics of this style unattacked. Not one tiny bit. To me it is a crime on our culture, the spirit of humanism, and the future of our youth.

P.S.
"Hochschule" - you mentioned it - does not mean High School, although the term would verbally translate into that. German "Hochschule" is university.

[nikimcbee]

Hochschule" - you mentioned it - does not mean High School,

I meant Hauptschule. It's been +20 years since I've thought about the German education system.:D The exchange students we always had at our school were from the Gymnasium.

[HunterICX]

Good luck Neal :shucks:

HunterICX

[Hawk66]

Briefly? :D

It is a disaster.


@Skybird...don't be always so pessimistic ;)...'our' system has some (major) flaws and the Scandinavian school/education system is surely better in several ways but compared to the rest of the world the results are pretty good overall.

@Neil: I admire your courage to do some completely different. Although I am not a teacher, I have been a mentor for a dozens of students in the last couple of years (working in the IT industry).
I like this part of my job the most, since it is (mostly) very rewarding to work with young people, who have their own mind and are still of full energy and have no fear to try out new things.

I think you will enjoy your new job :-).

[Skybird]

@Skybird...don't be always so pessimistic ;)...'our' system has some (major) flaws and the Scandinavian school/education system is surely better in several ways but compared to the rest of the world the results are pretty good overall.

The disaster lies in that the try so hard to ruin it, bring it down, and lowering standards constantly, on the other hand putting more and more time pressure on the young to becomean available resource for the job marketr as soon as possible - as if that were all that it is about.

Then there is this idiotic Bologna process, cynically refering to one of the oldest universities in Europe for a program that crushed the world-wide admired German engineer-diploma, and sterilising other branches by this idiotic bachelors and masters crashcourses that may give the people an Ausbildung in the meanign of using academic tools and info at jobs (or not, considering the huge gap between the theoretical curricula and the pragmatic reality), but giving up the ideal by Humbold about what Bildung is in reference to the cultural background of a Bildungsbürgertum.

We are destroying the very basis of intellectuality and general education by this, and thus not only destroy our cultural life and diversity, their fundaments, but also the needed resources to maybe one day in the future, when we wake up and realise what madness we had fallen to, repair and reverse the destructive anti-cultural course we have set now. What we lose now by our own decision, is hard to be replaced or rebuild in the future.

That'S why I call it a disaster. It is a culture revolution demanded by this mad economic system we have allowed to be formed.

A humane human is not what is wanted in this system, but a humanoid ant. No longer is the economy there for serving the needs of the people. People are demanded to serve the needs of the economy instead. It starts with jobs, leads over the expectancy that people always consume and consume more and consume beyond the means they need, and product design artifically shortening product lifespan so that people buy again earlier, and ends with the immense heaps of rubble and garbage that we then transport to some god-forsaken rathole in the third world.

None of these things, and education as well, are single aspects that could be seen isolated. They all are linked together and form one big picture of a degenerating, destructive culture in free fall.

[joea]

Congrats Neal, good luck in your career change! Teaching can be amazing!

[TarJak]

Neal, shame the hotel thing didn't work out. You've chosen an honourable and valuable profession and I reckon you'll make a fist of it once you get into the system. It sounds like you've managed to get onto a good program so if you approach it like everything else, you'll be a shoe in for a permanent spot in good time. All the best mate and don't let the little buggers get you down. Dealing with teenagers can really be a bear.

[Hitman]

I have been teaching sporadically in the university and at the lawyer's school, so that is a very different kind of teaching that dealing with young guys. When you teach universitaries and specially post-universitaries, the key thing is to explain things well, specially the basic concepts they need to use in the future as base of their reasoning. However, in my opinion, when teaching young people the main difficulty is actually motivating them. Grown ups in post-university WANT to learn, they are there for a reason and expect that you explain things well; however youngsters many times do NOT want to learn, they are there because their parents sent them to school or because they do not want to work.

So my advice is that you read some books about psychology of teaching to young people. But choose wisely, there are too many "good will" psychologist writing nonesense around.

Originally, we had "Grundschule", class 1-4, then a selection for either Hauptschule from class 5-10, or Realschule classes 5-13, or Gymnasium classes 5-13. Expect in Berlin, where the Grundschule was from class 1-6, and the higher schools followed from class 7 on.

That original system, which I myself experimented, worked reasonably well and served to lead people into what was most appropiate to their abilities/motivation, but as you say it has been destroyed by good-will leftists who think that it was classist or leaded to frustrations. What a stupidity. Having in the same class intelligent and stupid childs with and without a support at home and huge differences in many areas is a sure way to disaster. But don't tell that a leftist, they want everybody to be able to have a universitary title -and if they lack the level, then let's move that level down. So everybody can be "equal".

For me that is nonesense, people need to get a fair opportunity that is not limited by their family money and teaching support to make the best out of it. But if they don't, then so be it and it's perfectly acceptabel that they work at something else instead of frustrating themselves and destroying the universitary education of the others who can/will.

Now try to explain that to a no-brainer leftist ... :doh:

[nikimcbee]

Now try to explain that to a no-brainer leftist ... :doh:

:haha::salute: Welcome to the education system.:shifty: That aspect of teaching I don't miss at all.

[Oberon]

Don't blame you for getting out of the hospitality trade Neal, I've noticed that the higher up the ladder you go in it the more...'rubbish' gets dropped on your head. That's why I'm staying near the ground, the frequency of the drops are higher but there's a protective layer of supervisors over my head to absorb a lot of it.

[geetrue]

My family moved to Houston in 1959 when it was just all fields lol

I was just 16 in high school. Nine years in the US Navy right out of highschool still only 27 I came back to Houston working for Southwest Security as a trouble shooter in 1971-72 installing smoke detectors at Shell Oil on the channel, had the keys to every 7-11, stop and go and u totem in Houston.

Took a chance at being a salesman for Southwest Marine selling sailboats in Seabrook for 5 years and I am so glad I did ... reached out for my full potential and became top salesman.

Now I am just an old retired sailor on social security trying to write the next best submarine movie, "Last Patrol" ever written, again reaching out for the impossiable.

I say go where your heart leads you so when it's over you can say, "at least I tried my best"

Time is only an extension of his promise to come back for us all someday ... :yep:

[Onkel Neal]

Update 2013

I've had a couple people ask me about my teaching job, so I thought it would be worth an update. Over the summer I had probably 8 interviews. I didn't get any of the jobs. One was for a co-op teacher for students interning at a hotel. I would have been perfect for that, with my degree and background in hotels. I think I did well in that interview and I checked back for the verdict...once a week for 5 weeks, before finally being told the job had been filled by an internal candidate. I also interviewed for 8th grade English, middle school science and even a history position at the max security high school where they store the gangbangers before turning them loose on the world. Nada. :O:

The last interview I received was telling: the principal was a nice lady, about 35, and she asked good questions and was interesting to talk with. The other members of the team were also in the interview, ladies ranging from 22 to 29 yrs old (you can see where this is going). I was recommended by one of my co-student teachers who had scored a job there. She told them I was a really sensible man with broad experience, friendly, easy to work with (we had been in the training classes together and on some of the same teams). After the interview, I went to one of the pedagogy classes with the other student teachers, including the lady who endorsed me. She asked me about the interview, and I described it. There another student teacher at our table (not part of our normal group) exclaimed she was interviewing there too later (she was young, willowy thin). We wished her luck. So, the next day the principle called me to let me know I didn't get the job, and to thank me for interviewing. She even said I could use her as a reference on any future interviews. I asked her what qualifications I needed to shore up, and she revealed that she liked me for the job, but the other teachers wanted someone close to their own age, someone they felt would fit in with their group. Alas. I can understand a group of young ladies having reluctance to bring in an old cowboy to their team. But that wasn't getting me any closer to a teaching job.

So, I missed the initial new teacher day. Most of my classmates had jobs. Pretty disheartening, but that's life, there are no guarantees. Obviously these experienced principals felt I was lacking something, probably more teaching experience. So, I signed up to substitute teach. It was better than nothing, it would get me in the classroom, and possibly help me get some principal to love me and bring me in to fill a vacancy.

Coming up: Onkel Neal and the legions of hell.

[AVGWarhawk]

Neal
I was lacking something, probably more teaching experience. So, I signed up to substitute teach. It was better than nothing, it would get me in the classroom, and possibly help me get some principal to love me and bring me in to fill a vacancy.

Very sensible course of action. :yep: Experience is a top selling tool when interviewing.

[raymond6751]

[quote] Tak, I know you're a teacher, any advice? Any other teachers out there? [\quote]

I went into teaching computers and software for a software company and did well for 13 years before the hi-tech bubble burst. After they went under, and two years lookin, I started teaching programming at entry level at the community college.

I went from teaching adults who wanted to learn to kids who didn't. I got a lot of attitude and grief.

My advice, Neal, stay cool. Everyone can't do everything well, teachers or students. I learned as much teaching as my students did. I just didn't realize it until I retired.

Here's some real advice:
1> Don't jingle keys or coins in your pocket when talking.
2> Walk around as you teach, up front and among the students,making eye contact.
3> Talk to the kid in the back row.
4> Write BIG on the board, for the back row.
5> Admit it when you can't answer a question -- but get the answer back to them pronto. With reference/proof/example.
6> Anticipate what questions you are likely to have to face, ahead of time.


Good luck!:know:

[Father Goose]

So, the next day the principle called me to let me know I didn't get the job, and to thank me for interviewing. She even said I could use her as a reference on any future interviews. I asked her what qualifications I needed to shore up, and she revealed that she liked me for the job, but the other teachers wanted someone close to their own age, someone they felt would fit in with their group.

So, I missed the initial new teacher day. Most of my classmates had jobs. Pretty disheartening, but that's life, there are no guarantees.

As golfer Chi Chi Rodriguez told me years ago, "Everything works out for the best!" And you know what Neal? He was right. :yeah:

[nikimcbee]

So, I signed up to substitute teach



May God have mercy on your soul.:haha:
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/priest2-620x413.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=v98VSiV5SYfHaM&tbnid=mQkt41XnWym7JM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fstories%2F2013 %2F04%2F27%2Fclergy-were-reportedly-banned-from-the-deadly-boston-bombing-scene-here-are-the-details%2F&ei=2OWLUcPtNfCLyAG8zIDICA&bvm=bv.46340616,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNHbw4EzywPXjtDDO0FdUrK1UlUaqQ&ust=1368209151387885)

For the most part, subbing isn't that bad. If you get called a lot, you can pick and chose which classes you take.:yeah: It also was a great learning experience.:doh: I'll have to give you a call to tell you the good stories.:D

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.:03:

[nikimcbee]

My advice, Neal, stay cool.

1000% Yes:up: Don't blow your top at them. If they (the kids) figure out they can push your buttons to get you to blow up.....

It's very entertaining....for them.

[Stealhead]

So, I signed up to substitute teach. It was better than nothing, it would get me in the classroom, and possibly help me get some principal to love me and bring me in to fill a vacancy.

Coming up: Onkel Neal and the legions of hell.

This is what both my sister and one of my high school classmates had to do to land a a full time position.One teaches in Louisiana the other in Florida.A few years before my mother retired from teaching she mentored a new teacher that was male and in his fifties so they do hire older people you just have to go to the right school.

[Jimbuna]

Yes, age and maturity should go a long way I would have thought...it certainly helped me after I retired.

[Red October1984]

Neal, as a high school student, I can give you this advice:

Keep class interesting. Mix it up. Come up with new ideas. Consider suggestions from the students. Really get to know the students. Be a friend to them. If there's a kid who doesn't like you and he shows it, feel free to use humorous insults. The rest of the class will love it. Don't be afraid to throw some fun things in the mix every once in a while.

Also, try to get to know a bit about what the kids like.

My old history teacher was an awesome guy. I loved his class. He did stuff like this. He'd go out of his way to make sure we learned something in the chapter. I'm thinking of calling him to ask him if he'll come back since Ms. Communist resigned this week. :sunny:

Do you know what you will be teaching? :hmm2:

[Herr-Berbunch]

I don't think Neal needs the advice, just a sex change and a nip/tuck here and there.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I don't think Neal needs the advice, just a sex change and a nip/tuck here and there.:har:

[kranz]

happens in TX so it MUST be Neal's student.:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohbtQoEzr5o

[AVGWarhawk]

I don't think Neal needs the advice, just a sex change and a nip/tuck here and there.

:haha:

[McBeck]

Sorry to hear that it didn't turn out as you wanted.
A
I'm also very surprised to hear that's its not what's best for the children that's what's most important, but rather that the teachers are the same age?

Seriously!!!

[August]

Sorry to hear that it didn't turn out as you wanted.
A
I'm also very surprised to hear that's its not what's best for the children that's what's most important, but rather that the teachers are the same age?

Seriously!!!

I agree. It almost sounds like age discrimination. A nice little thing i'm starting to see myself.

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree. It almost sounds like age discrimination. A nice little thing i'm starting to see myself.

Truth be told it is age and sex discrimination that Neal experienced. Like Herr-Burcunch posted...Get some breast implants and face lift. He will then have a shot at that position. Neal might have had good case.

I agree with McBeck, it was poor choice over personal choice of who to work with as opposed to what was the best choice for the children.

[Jimbuna]

There is only one answer :yep:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gvKv-Kh-BQo/T9C99xQd50I/AAAAAAAAAtQ/b1ZyeZyngHo/s640/mrs-doubtfire.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=mrs+doubtfire&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=uxL6kmyMaG1EYM&tbnid=yKIJR3uEUnzpHM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allthatsbueno.com%2F2012%2F06 %2Fmrs-doubtfire-re-cut-as-psychological.html&ei=plyNUbe7EdG10QW9kYHoBQ&bvm=bv.46340616,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNH1UoEohUeGdbic_h3vxXYu7DpnqQ&ust=1368305167150057)

:O:

[mookiemookie]

Truth be told it is age and sex discrimination that Neal experienced. Like Herr-Burcunch posted...Get some breast implants and face lift. He will then have a shot at that position. Neal might have had good case.

I agree with McBeck, it was poor choice over personal choice of who to work with as opposed to what was the best choice for the children.

I suppose that means he could go the legal action route if he wanted?

[McBeck]

I suppose that means he could go the legal action route if he wanted?

Maybe, but I doubt that would get him the job and even if he did, would he want it then...

[AVGWarhawk]

I suppose that means he could go the legal action route if he wanted?

I would suspect Neal could have a case. Problem is, "he said, she said." Just deny anything was said other than Neal did not qualify. She is off the hook. But, like McBeck has said, to what end? Just carry on a bit more wiser.

[nikimcbee]

I don't think Neal needs the advice, just a sex change and a nip/tuck here and there.

If you do that, watch out for Dowly.:o

[Onkel Neal]

That original system, which I myself experimented, worked reasonably well and served to lead people into what was most appropiate to their abilities/motivation, but as you say it has been destroyed by good-will leftists who think that it was classist or leaded to frustrations. What a stupidity. Having in the same class intelligent and stupid childs with and without a support at home and huge differences in many areas is a sure way to disaster. But don't tell that a leftist, they want everybody to be able to have a universitary title -and if they lack the level, then let's move that level down. So everybody can be "equal".




Yes, I have long carried the same mindset--teaching to all levels in one class is not the way to go. And push like hell for every student to go to college--pay for it with taxpayer money and make it super easy. Because the country needs every child to be a college graduate. I agree with you. :-? My short time teaching has only hardened that philosophy. I do not agree with the all-inclusive approach to education, I see it as very counterproductive, inefficient, and a really difficult task for the teacher.

I'm also much more enlightened about the whole system now. The public, acting through the government, want the best education for their children. So, let's make sure the curriculum is top notch. Let's make sure the teachers are top-notch, willing to commit their lives to the task of education, and fully accountable for the results. And, let's allow the parents to raise their children without a whiff of discipline, self-control or respect for their teachers. :dead:

It does work for some people. But not everyone.




Sorry to hear that it didn't turn out as you wanted.
A
I'm also very surprised to hear that's its not what's best for the children that's what's most important, but rather that the teachers are the same age?

Seriously!!!



I suppose that means he could go the legal action route if he wanted?

Oh lord, can you imagine how that would look? :) Nah, I have long realized there are types of discrimination in everything, sometimes it's good, sometimes not. Who has not discriminated at some point? I can accept it, it makes me work a little harder to achieve my goal but it does not make it impossible. In this case, it would be horrible to force myself on a group of young ladies who feel more comfortable with someone they can bond with. It's cool, and I really respect the princicpal for being honest (she didn't come out and say "we discriminated against you", but she certainly did not lie or cover it up with bs--kudos, young lady:salute:).

So, I want to be a teacher. I want to be a teacher more than anything in life. Well, no, not to that extent. I want to be a teacher and help young people learn the value of education, to help them grow, and to feel the gratification of an important job well-done. And summers off.

So, I accepted the situation, and looked for ways to make the best of it. I signed up for the substitution program for two different school districts, Pearland and Pasadena. They are polar opposites, Pearland is growing and affluent (by rural Texas standards); Pasadena is an old section of Houston, stagnant and poor, a Hispanic ghetto. Pearland is where I live, where my youngest daughter attends high school. Pasadena is where I worked at the the cycle shop, the reason I got my CHL. Yet, honestly, I was excited about making a difference. Yeah, I knew going in it would not be easy. When the topic came up with my friends and family, I said "we'll see how it goes".

So, I got fingerprinted (twice), attended both the indoctrination seminars, and read up on what to expect. I had been in the classroom a number of times during my teacher training classes last spring and summer (2012), so I had many chances to observer different classrooms and teachers: wow, some of them were really good--very patient, firm and caring. Could I learn those skills? Could I measure up? Could I make this work? I'm an ex-chemical operator, marine department tankerman, and accountant. A good ol' boy from the ranch. Was this a fish out of water story or what?

[nikimcbee]

You're doing secondary ed, right? How many schools are there in those two districts? (2ndary)

Now that I now you're subbing, My advice still stands. I'm assuming you like teaching history, so go in and meet as many of the teachers (social studies) you can, shake their hand and give them your name and number. If you leave a good imppression, they'll call you! Subbing for a subject you like beats the hell out of subjects you don't like. If you stick with subbing (for next year), do all of your heavy lifting this year and you'll be primed for next year.

Do the districts (Pearland and Pasadena) have automated sub calling systems? Teacher calls computer, computer calls you?:06:

Depending how big those two districts are, you may want to add a third district, if you intend on working everyday.:rock:

For the most part, I really liked subbing. Every day is different. If you have a class full of (@#$%):D, you get a different class the next day. Once the work pump was primed and the calls/work was steady, I could pick and choose which classes I'd sub for and reject the schools and subjects I didn't like.:yeah: If I wanted a day off, I just turned my phone off.

[Onkel Neal]

You're doing secondary ed, right? How many schools are there in those two districts? (2ndary)

Now that I now you're subbing, My advice still stands. I'm assuming you like teaching history, so go in and meet as many of the teachers (social studies) you can, shake their hand and give them your name and number. If you leave a good imppression, they'll call you! Subbing for a subject you like beats the hell out of subjects you don't like. If you stick with subbing (for next year), do all of your heavy lifting this year and you'll be primed for next year.

Do the districts (Pearland and Pasadena) have automated sub calling systems? Teacher calls computer, computer calls you?:06:

Depending how big those two districts are, you may want to add a third district, if you intend on working everyday.:rock:

For the most part, I really liked subbing. Every day is different. If you have a class full of (@#$%):D, you get a different class the next day. Once the work pump was primed and the calls/work was steady, I could pick and choose which classes I'd sub for and reject the schools and subjects I didn't like.:yeah: If I wanted a day off, I just turned my phone off.

I'm subbing for middle school, junior high and high school. Probably 25 - 35 schools in total. Yes, they both have an automated system. It's a great way to pick a job, burn a day and make a little cash. I was able to work 4 days a week easily, and could have made it 5.

[nikimcbee]

Cool, sounds like you've got a good pool to pick from.:up:

[nikimcbee]

I'll post more later. Gotta work now.:dead: I mean :yeah:.

[McBeck]

Im still in shock over the choice to keep within a certain age. So the future of this school is to have teacher at the same age...even when they are in their 50s and 60s? I really dont get it!! A guy and from a different era will bring perspective and a different approach in to their work.

The team I work in have people of different genders, ages, background etc.
British, Danish, Irish and Marrocan. Theres a engineer, developer, librarian etc.
All those different people bring perspective and together we are very strong.

So a team of female teachers in their late 20s....yeah, they will really be able to perspective to eachother :nope:

[Jimbuna]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9734/mrsdoubtfirerobinwillia.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/mrsdoubtfirerobinwillia.jpg/)

"I'm sure you'll eventually find something Neal, just as I did"

[August]

Im still in shock over the choice to keep within a certain age. So the future of this school is to have teacher at the same age...even when they are in their 50s and 60s? I really dont get it!! A guy and from a different era will bring perspective and a different approach in to their work.

The team I work in have people of different genders, ages, background etc.
British, Danish, Irish and Marrocan. Theres a engineer, developer, librarian etc.
All those different people bring perspective and together we are very strong.

So a team of female teachers in their late 20s....yeah, they will really be able to perspective to eachother :nope:

It's not just teaching, there's a lot of age discrimination in the workplace in general. Unfortunately it's all too easy to get away with it because it's so difficult to prove.

[vienna]

So, Neal, you being in Texas and all, maybe you're going to compete for 'Substitute Teacher of the Year' against Peggy Hill?...

<O>

[McBeck]

It's not just teaching, there's a lot of age discrimination in the workplace in general. Unfortunately it's all too easy to get away with it because it's so difficult to prove.
Weather or not its difficult to prove should NOT be the reason.
Have these people lost any connection with reality? Its narrowminding to the extreme!!

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Neal, what teacher training in Texas includes and how long it takes?

[Onkel Neal]

It depends. If you have a bachelor's degree, you can sign up for a program and get the training in about 4 months.

August 2012. D-Day: The first few days, there were no jobs available. Then there was one. And I took it. I believe it was a science teacher for the Pasadena middle school, 6th graders. I survived that and kept going. A day consisted of arriving at the school, getting to the teacher's room and hopefully, reading the instructions and reviewing the lesson plan. Most teachers simply left a few worksheets for the students. Occasionally there was a video to watch (Bill Nye the spazzy science guy :-?). The students' eyes would light up at the sight of me, whispering the holy mantra: "we have a sub."

Yes, Onkel Neal, of Subsim, was a sub. Some kind of hokey irony, eh? :cool:

I quickly learned to be all-business and somewhat stern if I wanted to get through the class with even a hint of teaching. Some classes were fairly easy to manage--honor's classes, for example. These kids weren't stupid, they knew there was work to do and were willing to do it. I imagined they would one day grow up to be the wealthy and powerful 1%ers, lording over the students who could not listen or be bothered to do their work. I imagined these latter kids would one day be protesting the fabulous lifestyles of the previous group. :hmm2: Not sure how much sympathy I can muster for them.

Over the autumn, I subbed as a PE coach (yay! a whistle, and it works!), special ed teacher, middle school, junior high and high school, and even a few times in the max security campus.

The object of school is to learn, and to learn, one must listen. Forget about interesting lessons or any of that fancy stuff they taught me in training--I spent most of my energy trying to get the little buggers to shut up. And stay in their seat. Seriously. Maybe as a regular teacher, one can keep the kids in line better than a sub. I know there were many classes where I was simply unable to get much done. I admit, I am not fond of shouting at kids, like many of the other teachers would do to get the class to simmer down. I would raise my voice to drill sergeant level but I didn't like it. I also had one fatal failing: if I had to tell the kids to stop talking more than 3 times in a few minutes, I relinquished control to them. :shifty: I come from the generation where children had a little respect for adults, and feared the consequences. Today, there are no real consequences. There's no corporeal punishment--the one thing that all kids fear (well, except the psychotic ones). The only thing a sub can do to keep the class in line is write down their names for their teacher, and that obviously didn't worry them. I sent a few to the office, that really had no effect on the rest in most cases. The coaches whistle sure worked, but they told me I could not use it in the classroom, only the gym. :down:

There were cases where I got to teach and help some kids. My favorite memory was in a junior high, a class full of underachievers and a few jokers who disrupted the class constantly. I was teaching how to do time-distance-speed problems. I really wanted to get some ground covered but again, most of the kids played dumb and could not follow simple instructions or put out much effort. There was one Mexican kid who was sullen and not even trying to answer the questions. My training had alerted me for the kids who are afraid to try and fail, so they act up and resist trying. I was at his desk using my best "hey buddy, let me do a couple for you and get you started" voice. I worked one, explaining my strategy, and then another; then I worked one and prompted him to tell me what to do next and why. In about 6 minutes, you could see a gleam in his eye as he "got it" and eagerly tackled the next question. But in those 6 minutes, the rest of the class went wild. It was so frustrating.

In capsule: I made one disruptive kid cry, I had an emotionally disturbed kid lose it and throw a tantrum, I had a special ed kid hug me, I had another badly-adjusted child rebel against me and get escorted from the school, and I hear the word "Mister" about 62 million times. By Christmas break, I decide I was not cut out for subbing. It's not that I don't like kids, I do, I like kids. I just don't want them around me. Mom and Dad, if you can't do a better job of parenting, you'll have to find someone else to school your little darlings.

Come January 1, 2013, I made a new year's resolution to look for another line of work.

[nikimcbee]

Come January 1, 2013, I made a new year's resolution to look for another line of work.

Join the dark side Neal, the semiconductor industry beckons...

Cyberdyne is hiring... Come work with me Neal... We are hiring like crazy...

Actually, I'm working on escaping from my department:know: I'll keep you posted.

[Wolferz]

Being a substitute teacher.

I only had one experience at it and that was enough for me. Even had one kid take a swing at me for no apparent reason other than he thought he was a tough guy. My career path took a sudden left turn and I never looked back.

Good luck in the future.

[mookiemookie]

Come January 1, 2013, I made a new year's resolution to look for another line of work.

If you don't mind commuting to Memorial City, you can be a high flying bond broker. We're hiring. Sail the Seven Seas of Finance. :arrgh!:

[nikimcbee]

So Neal, since you dabbled in teaching, did you convert?


http://www.ihatethemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/sheila-jackson-lee5-e1310477290487.jpg

Neal! Stop goofin off with your subsimz friendz and get my re-election signz up! an bring dat lazy a$$ mookie wich you to help.

Mus I die?

[Onkel Neal]

If you don't mind commuting to Memorial City, you can be a high flying bond broker. We're hiring. Sail the Seven Seas of Finance. :arrgh!:

Haha, thanks for that. I'll leave the high-level thinking occupation to you. I would surely founder the ship if I were there. :up: