SR-71

[Ducimus]

The B52 thread struck an old memory. Anyone else remember the SR-71 as a kid? I saw it at airshow's (vid link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV82gbriMc8) that isn't mine) and when they fired that plane up, the entire tarmac would vibrate and rumble. The sheer power of the plane was just awesome.

Discovery channel documentary. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDvyDb6ICwo&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLBDAAC80E67756E1B)

[the_tyrant]

If only I can fly one *sigh

It would be absolutely amazing if commercial air travel can achieve the speed that the SR-71 can

[u crank]

Cool post. I remember reading about this plane but can't remember the book or article. Some stuff I recall though was interesting. The turning radius at speed and altitude was huge. She didn't turn on a dime. Also the fuel tanks would leak on the ground, but would seal up as the aircraft heated up to almost 500F at mach 3.

Must have been a heck of a ride!:salute:

[MH]

Amazing plane and also amazing what could be achieved back in 60s when money was of no issue.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/37assets/svn/Runway-3.jpg

:rock:

[CaptainHaplo]

The only plane I know of that was designed to leak fuel while sitting on the tarmac. Amazed me when I first learned that - but the forethought to do it was even more so.

[Stealhead]

The SR-71 was the only operational aircraft to use an engine that was a combination turbofan and ramjet it used some very unique fuel as well.The leakiness of the fuel though was a bit of an exaggeration in reality the gaps where very small and only a very small amount leaked(it was not a leaking pig as some might believe) out whilst on the tarmac and at low speeds but it was still a very serious fire hazard and as a result they only carried a small load for take off and then they got topped of by a KC-135 after take off.I knew an old timer NCO in the Air Force that had been stationed at Misawa AB Japan (a regular forward operating base for blackbirds in the old days to visit Kamchatka I am sure they also deployed to Kadena a lot more than likely for snooping on China) that one did did have a fire catch as it was taking off but it burned itself out soon after they landed again and about a hour later the Blackbird took off again.No doubt in my mind the SR-71 saw a lot of use over China and Southeast Asia more than anywhere else.A few times they flew it over North Vietnam and they actually tried to send MiG-21s to intercept.... effort in futility.I also knew a guy that been at Beale AFB home of the TR-1(U-2) and SR-71 he had some awards from the wing that had an engraved Blackbird and Dragon Lady of course he had little say about what he did.

@u crank the SR-71/A-12 was never designed with agility in mind so one can not expect it to have a good turn radius no need to turn when you are going so fast and flying so high up that nothing can get you in the first place.The A-12 interceptor was designed when dog fighting was felt to be a thing of the past and designs focused other aspects and had little or no interest in agility.

@MH congress and the branches still argued over what programs where worth spending money: "The A-12 program was officially canceled on 28 December 1966[13] ***8212; even before Black Shield began in 1967 ***8212; due to budget concerns[14] and because of the forthcoming SR-71, which arrived in Kadena in March 1968."

Another aircraft that got scrapped due to money concerns the B-70 it probably was not the best bomber concept at any rate though it was a very impressive design in it own right.

[nikimcbee]

The Evergreen and Boeing museums have SR-71s. @Boeing you can climb into a cockpit.:yeah:

[Stealhead]

The USS Alabama Memorial Park in Mobile has an A-12 in its aircraft museum(I wonder how many A-12s are left :hmmm:) I found this out from an ex Marine Corps Aviator that helps maintain the planes on display.He came up to me and asked "Does this Blackbird look a little funny to you?" I told him that it did look slightly different and he asked why might that be I took a guess and told him it must be an A-12 he was pretty impressed and showed the all the data about the plane.I still cant put my finger on what it was but that A-12 did look slightly different than an SR-71 I think it is the nose on the A-12 it is a little wider some of the dimensions are slightly different as well I have always had a keen eye for aircraft design.

[August]

I saw one take off once during a deployment to England. Almost as soon as it left the runway the pilot stood it on it's tail and kicked in the afterburners. It just shot away up into the clouds like a bullet. An awesome thing to watch.

[razark]

One of my favorite stories from an SR-71 pilot. Not sure if it really happened, but I still like it:
One day, high above Arizona , we were monitoring the radio traffic of all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna pilot asked the air traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety knots,' ATC replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. 'One-twenty on the ground,' was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the radio with a ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of course, he had a ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted to let all the bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was 'Dusty 52, we show you at 620 on the ground,' ATC responded. The situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's mike button in the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled the controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet, clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the controller replied, ' Aspen 20, I show you at 1,982 knots on the ground.' We did not hear another transmis sion on that frequency all the way to the coast.

[soopaman2]

In the opinion of everyone here would this still be a viable aircraft today?

That is what I thought of as I read these posts.

It truly was ahead of its time, and IMHO one of the best planes ever engineered.

A modern comparison is the f-22 Raptor.
(yeah yeah, the cost is too much to justify it in an extended combat role, blah blah)
Just saying, ahead of its time.

Love the US or hate us, we sure can build an airplane.:O:

[TLAM Strike]

In the opinion of everyone here would this still be a viable aircraft today?

Nope. High and fast gets you killed. The Patriot and latest SA-XX can engage targets like the SR-71.

This is the super high speed recon asset of the future:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7372/100330o1234s001.jpg
It stays up for a year, evasive maneuvers can send it in to the next hemisphere, it doesn't lose speed or alt in a turn, is expendable...

[Stealhead]

Yeah the SR-71 would not be safe like it was during the Cold War at the time it was they way to go but the Soviets knowing about the SR-71 and the B-70(though it got scrapped in 69~70) they started developing counters I am not sure if it an urban legend or not but it is said that the interceptor version of the MiG-25 was designed specifically to deal with the B-70 which was a project that they did know about to some extent

That is why the scrapping of the original B-1A program was a good choice that program was to be a high altitude bomber something that was clearly the way of the Dodo by even the early 70's.The B-1B was originally(and it can still perform in this role as can the remaining B-52s if need be) a low altitude NOE penetration platform the odds it was felt where much better of flying low and fast as the Soviets lacked aircraft that had look down shoot down radar abilities until the MiG-31 came along in the early 80s and still good NOE even if radar did see it would have required a high level of coordination to deal with (remember in a SAC war you are sending a large number of bombers in) I am pretty confidante that the Soviets would have been overwhelmed and the F-117 and B-2 that just changed the whole game because those could be used to strike unseen and blow holes in the wall for the B-1Bs and Buffs to penetrate and they could do this to some extent already with cruise missiles.

I would say that radar and guidance technology have caught up with very high and very fast well we all know that high alone was not enough when Gary Powers was shot down 70,000 ft was not high enough.

[Krauter]

Good post Steelhead

[Herr-Berbunch]

This is the super high speed recon asset of the future:

Looks like a chinese copy of the shuttle! :D


It stays up for a year, evasive maneuvers can send it in to the next hemisphere, it doesn't lose speed or alt in a turn, is expendable...

Surely that depends on the initial speed into the turn, the force of the turn, and a few other bits that escape me at the moment. Unless it's turn radius is huge at any speed? :hmmm:

[Gargamel]

Looks like a chinese copy of the shuttle! :D




Surely that depends on the initial speed into the turn, the force of the turn, and a few other bits that escape me at the moment. Unless it's turn radius is huge at any speed? :hmmm:

It's in orbit, so it's changing its vector more than turning.

Also wright pat in Dayton has a 71 too, iirc from my last trip there.

[Herr-Berbunch]

It's in orbit, so it's changing its vector more than turning.

That makes more sense! I should've guessed by it's looks.

Back to the Blackbird, I've seen them at Mildenhall and Lakenheath airshows in the late '80s and very early '90s but disappointingly only on static display, and I've seen it fly once at Alconbury airshow around the same times.

Living where I do I've seen a lot of different aircraft over the years in their day-to-day flying, but not this beauty. :cry:

[Osmium Steele]

It stays up for a year, evasive maneuvers can send it in to the next hemisphere, it doesn't lose speed or alt in a turn, is expendable...

... it is curiously overdue to RTB, unless there was a clandestine landing within the last couple of weeks. :03:

[Osmium Steele]

I caught an SR-71 on static display at an airshow just before they came out of retirement in '93. The Kalamazoo Air-Zoo has a B variant (http://www.sr-71.org/photogallery/blackbird/17956/).

[antikristuseke]

The USS Alabama Memorial Park in Mobile has an A-12 in its aircraft museum(I wonder how many A-12s are left :hmmm:) I found this out from an ex Marine Corps Aviator that helps maintain the planes on display.He came up to me and asked "Does this Blackbird look a little funny to you?" I told him that it did look slightly different and he asked why might that be I took a guess and told him it must be an A-12 he was pretty impressed and showed the all the data about the plane.I still cant put my finger on what it was but that A-12 did look slightly different than an SR-71 I think it is the nose on the A-12 it is a little wider some of the dimensions are slightly different as well I have always had a keen eye for aircraft design.

The SR-71 has wider canards on the nose than A-12. IIRC it had to do with achieving extra lift, but don't quote me on this.
A-12
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/A12-flying.jpg
SR-71
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

Gaaah! Too big! Too big! Slow computer crash!

[antikristuseke]

Oh sorry about that, I could resize the images if it is an issue.

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl2:

My seven-year-old computer is fine with it. I just wanted to say something funnier than "I hate scrolling sideways and I can't see the whole picture". :D

[Herr-Berbunch]

Err, the biggest difference is the A-12 is single seat. This makes it slightly longer too. :know:

And a canard (quack-quack) is a separate fore-plane, those running along the side of both are chines.

What? I had a very geeky childhood with aeroplanes :D

[antikristuseke]

Depending on your browser you could just hold ctrl and use the mouse scroll wheel to zoom the page in our out.
It works for opera and chrome, fairly sure firefox and the latest internet exploder support it as well.

[Sailor Steve]

Err, the biggest difference is the A-12 is single seat. This makes it slightly longer too.
The most noticable difference for me was that on the A-12 the chines stop abrubtly rather than tapering into the fuselage. And yes, I knew what they were long before reading your post.
I was around back then.

Depending on your browser you could just hold ctrl and use the mouse scroll wheel to zoom the page in our out.
It works for opera and chrome, fairly sure firefox and the latest internet exploder support it as well.
Silly goose. I'm just lazy and don't like to scoll at all. :O:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Silly goose. I'm just lazy and don't like to scoll at all. :O:

Get a bigger monitor :D

[Sailor Steve]

Get a bigger monitor :D
I have a bigger monitor. Everything is amplified, including the pictures. :rotfl2:

[Stealhead]

Steve the SR-71 picture you chose is a really good one because it illustrates the fuel seepage very well you can tell that that photo was taken shortly after the first in air refueling and you can see where the seep points are for the fuel cells.The area around the fueling receptor is clearly from the the fueling booms over spray.

Of course it might also have just come down from higher speeds and the seepage have been caused then though I doubt once it got warmed from higher speeds it would have cooled down enough for the seepage to occur again as long a a pane is flying it is generating some friction and would have more heat than an idle plane on the ground.That is why I would say that the bottom photo shows the seepage from take off to the refueling point.

According to the guy at that museum the A-12 had a slight blue tone to its black paint that the SR-71 did not have.He did help restore that A-12 so I assume that he must have been correct that the two planes had slightly different paint.

Here is a link all about the A-12/SR-71 it has a number of good wraparound photos of every A-12/SR on display in the US by looking through them you can really see the differences in shape interestingly it seems that for the D-21 drone program there was a hybrid M-21 an A-12 with a SR front end made that was used for training purposes it says that that made only two M-21s.

http://www.sr-71.org/blackbird/

[TLAM Strike]

Looks like a chinese copy of the shuttle!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37

:03:

[MH]

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/828/pics/3_3.jpg



http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/828/pics/3_2.jpg

http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/eastham/2a12.jpg


http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/eastham/eastham26.jpg

[Platapus]

There are a few static displays of aircraft that look like the SR-71. But maybe they are not SR-71s. How can you tell the difference?

1. If it is a single seater, it is an A-12 (there was one 2-seat trainer but that's gone)
2. If the forward chines are chopped short of the nose, it is a YF-12
3. If it is a two seater and the chines go to the nose it is an SR-71

SR-71 trivia question: What color is the SR-Blackbird? :D

[jmann]

All i can say is x-plane 10

[Tchocky]

Some of the old hands at work tell stories about working on the radar while the SR-71 was blazing through*. Nowadays the fastest we see is a pokey Dutch or Belgian F-16 running up to six or seven knots.


Pshaw. ;)

* - Not that you'd be likely to pick up a Blackbird on a civilian radar anyways if they weren't squawking something convenient. Mostly sightings from piots below or a nice phoned-in warning from the Air Force

[TLAM Strike]

* - Not that you'd be likely to pick up a Blackbird on a civilian radar anyways if they weren't squawking something convenient. They were for sure stealthy against radar, but... take a wild guess why the MiG-29 and Su-27 featured an IR targeting system in the nose. :03:

[Stealhead]

There are a few static displays of aircraft that look like the SR-71. But maybe they are not SR-71s. How can you tell the difference?

1. If it is a single seater, it is an A-12 (there was one 2-seat trainer but that's gone)
2. If the forward chines are chopped short of the nose, it is a YF-12
3. If it is a two seater and the chines go to the nose it is an SR-71

SR-71 trivia question: What color is the SR-Blackbird? :D

Refer to the link I posted at the bottom of the last page it lists and has photos of every A-12/SR-71 on display in the US it lists them by model A-12 or SR-71 A or B and the location.Look at those pictures and you will see the differences.

The two seat A-12 is in LA she still is around( http://www.sr-71.org/photogallery/blackbird/06927/ ).If you look at the body of the A-12 it looks as if they designed it to allow a second cockpit if needed and some had one I suppose with the SR they decided to have a full time extra man to deal with the electronics and let the pilot focus on flying.

The color is indigo blue.

What I like are the start carts because my old job in the Air Force was working on and driving these and other equipment to aircraft without us nobody flies.
http://www.sr-71.org/photogallery/blackbird/startercart/index.php?file=startercart-2004-10.jpg

that is two V-8 engines either two Buick or two Chevy take that Ford and Chrysler! your engines cant handle the work load of starting the Blackbird.They one of these machines for each engine. Nowadays they use diesel engines or a gas turbine to start em up the gas turbine can also use bleed air to start engines.

[Krauter]

They were for sure stealthy against radar, but... take a wild guess why the MiG-29 and Su-27 featured an IR targeting system in the nose. :03:

Even still wouldn't their IR targetting systems be ineffective because
a) IR missiles have a lot shorter range then radar guided ones
b) The IR trackers were shorter ranged then a regular radar? More for up close and personnal fights (so to speak).

[TLAM Strike]

Even still wouldn't their IR targetting systems be ineffective because
a) IR missiles have a lot shorter range then radar guided ones You thinking like an American! The Russians made long range IR guided missiles. The R-40TD (AA-6 'Acrid') for one, the R-27 (AA-10 'Alamo') also had IR variants.


b) The IR trackers were shorter ranged then a regular radar? More for up close and personnal fights (so to speak). Against a fighter yes, the SR-71 was huge and left a large heat wake behind it. GCI Radars could give the location but onboard Radars have to deal with jamming and the aircraft's stealthyness (smaller aircraft radars are easier to spoof). IR systems basically gives the pilot an additional sensor that can't be jammed. Also remember how high the SR-71 flew, heat transmitted near the edge of space goes a lot farther than at ground level.

[Krauter]

You thinking like an American! The Russians made long range IR guided missiles. The R-40TD (AA-6 'Acrid') for one, the R-27 (AA-10 'Alamo') also had IR variants.


Against a fighter yes, the SR-71 was huge and left a large heat wake behind it. GCI Radars could give the location but onboard Radars have to deal with jamming and the aircraft's stealthyness (smaller aircraft radars are easier to spoof). IR systems basically gives the pilot an additional sensor that can't be jammed. Also remember how high the SR-71 flew, heat transmitted near the edge of space goes a lot farther than at ground level.

D'oh! :doh: Forgot about the AA-10 IR variant... :damn:

Aah well. Still considering I'd be a lot more worried if something like a MiG-31 were after me rather then a MiG-29 or Su-27/variant.

[TLAM Strike]

D'oh! :doh: Forgot about the AA-10 IR variant... :damn:

Aah well. Still considering I'd be a lot more worried if something like a MiG-31 were after me rather then a MiG-29 or Su-27/variant.
MiG-29 yea, but the Su-27 was a very good interceptor. It didn't have the performance of the MiG-31 but it was still quite good; really close to a Soviet F-14 short of the missiles. :yep:

Oh the MiG-31 has an IR sight too. :03:

[Stealhead]

Yeah you have to hand it to the Soviets sometimes they actually did come up with some pretty clever counters the long range IR missiles being one of them and a pretty clever one at that seeing as it is very hard to hide your heat signature from a good IR sensor.They are so sensitive that they can even acquire a lock from the heat generated by the friction of the air frame alone of course that would be at closer range.Also I image that modern IR guided missiles are much "smarter" and harder to fool with flares.That means in theory a good IR system and missile has a good chance against even a stealth(to radar) aircraft even they generate some friction in flight on the air frame.

Some western fighters are starting to mount similar sensors as well the Grippen can be mounted with one.The Soviet/Russian ones also are not just used for locking onto a target they can be used to scan the sky ahead and then the pilot can either fire an IR guided or he may choose to fire a radar guided missile at the target when he gets close allowing the target less time to react to the alert and subsequent launch of of a radar guided missile for some time the Soviets had a policy of firing one radar and one IR guided missile at a target to increase the odds of a hit of course that was with older missile technology not the better systems that started entering service in the late 70s.

[TLAM Strike]

Also I image that modern IR guided missiles are much "smarter" and harder to fool with flares.
The latest thing is a pod you tow behind a fighter that functions like a nixie decoy sending radar signals back to the incoming missile.

I would not be surprised if we see an IR source generating version soon. Maybe a omnidirectional laser in the IR spectrum, sort of like the disco light jammer on the Apache.

[Stealhead]

Classic warfare one side makes a better weapon the other makes a counter to that weapon and then a better weapon comes along.You have bullets and you have armor and no weapon or defense is perfect there is always some trade off it seems.

Sometimes I sit and wonder the first tribe that had atlatls they must have really dominated early warfare and think what the first tribe that invited the bow and arrow even better.Some theorize that at some point in time Cro Magnons and Neanderthals surely entered conflict over resources and that the Neanderthals lost out because they where a little slower in developing technology that Cro Magnons already had developed they lacked any projectile weapons and that made hunting much more dangerous to them because they had to get close enough to the prey that it could injure them while Cro Magnons just popped the prey with some atlatl arrows and let it bleed out Cro Magnon superior hunting gear also meant superior weaponry.Those poor Neanderthals.

[gimpy117]

My class at WMU too a tour of the Air zoo here in Kalamazoo and saw the SR-71B they have. it's an awesome Aircraft to behold. the crown jewel of the collection. touching it is an experience.

[Karle94]

Even still wouldn't their IR targetting systems be ineffective because
a) IR missiles have a lot shorter range then radar guided ones
b) The IR trackers were shorter ranged then a regular radar? More for up close and personnal fights (so to speak).
`
A MiG-25 and 31 will have another problem intercepting/shooting down a SR-71. Their engines burn up at top speed, plus they have a very short range at those speeds. Only a few minutes worth of fuel while the Blackbird can outrun and outrange both.

[Platapus]

The two seat A-12 is in LA she still is around( http://www.sr-71.org/photogallery/blackbird/06927/ )

Good catch and thanks for keeping me honest. I thought that airframe was chopped.

Mea culpa!

[MH]

Some western fighters are starting to mount similar sensors as well the Grippen can be mounted with one.The Soviet/Russian ones also are not just used for locking onto a target they can be used to scan the sky ahead and then the pilot can either fire an IR guided or he may choose to fire a radar guided missile at the target when he gets close allowing the target less time to react to the alert and subsequent launch of of a radar guided missile for some time the Soviets had a policy of firing one radar and one IR guided missile at a target to increase the odds of a hit of course that was with older missile technology not the better systems that started entering service in the late 70s.

Actually most moder EU fighters are equipped with some sort of irst built in like Typhoon for example.
In some newer US platforms it is standard equipment as well, in particular stealth ones together with advanced radars and ecm.

[CaptainHaplo]

sort of like the disco light jammer on the Apache.

Haven't heard anyone mention the disco system on a 64 in forever! Makes me miss working on em.

I am suprised that countermeasure systems are not becoming more "active" - with the ability to generate single frequency laser light at high output in fairly small spaces - it must only be a matter of time before a countermeasure system start shooting down enemy missiles.

Then "stealth" will be more about what you shoot at someone - instead of about what your shooting from.

I could see something like a B-52 gutted and having a system put in to make it purely a defensive aircraft -lasering enemy missiles out of the sky.

[Osmium Steele]

I could see something like a B-52 gutted and having a system put in to make it purely a defensive aircraft -lasering enemy missiles out of the sky.

Right company, wrong aircraft.

YAL-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1)