Meet a bear

[Skybird]

It can happen to you, though very very rarely, that you meet brown bears in European forest, namely the Alpine region, Northern Italy, Switzerland, some years ago even Bavaria.

The swiss authorities made a program, or better an advisory text named "Konzept Bär", where they laid down in text how people should behave when they meet a brown bear. In this German news (http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/mist-ein-baer-deutscher-lokalpolitiker-begegnet-baer-im-wald_aid_735768.html)they get quoted with recommending that people lay flat on the ground and don't move, the bear will approach and examine them, understand that they do not pose a threat to him, and leave.

???

I would do that when meeting a wolf: freeze and see what happens. But a bear...?

I follow where they say not to just turn and run, but to slowly retreat. I would even consider to hold my position. But laying on the ground and letting him sniff my threat potential out? I surely wouldn't desire to do that with ice bears or grizzlies. Don't know about brown bears, though.

Also I question the wisdom with regard to people'S self control and discipline in such a situation where potentially plenty of adrenaline and fear is involved.

I probbaly would play a game of stop and slowly retreat, if possible, and if he does not give up interest and approaches, would try to intimdate and surprise him by becoming loud in yelling, throwing things at him and "attack" him with anything I find in sticks and stones. Laying flat on the ground - what if he is curious to see what happens if he bites just for fun, or gives we a swing with his prank because I'm just laying in his path? Or he is insecure due to my alieness and attacks for that reason?

[Jimbuna]

I think the first thing many of us would do before any of the above is fill our pants :DL

[Diopos]

I think the first thing many of us would do before any of the above is fill our pants :DL

Which of course is considered an act of aggresion in BearWorld!

Kidding ..:DL.

.

[Osmium Steele]

Or you could just do this. (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/322767)

[Diopos]

Or you could just do this. (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/322767)

:D:rotfl2:

The guy sure hadn't read "Konzept Bär" :DL

.

[Jimbuna]

LOL :DL

[BossMark]

I think the first thing many of us would do before any of the above is fill our pants :DL
Not us Yorkshire lads :D

[Penguin]

Sky, Sky, Sky, so young and so suicidal....;)
First of all, Grizzlies and brown bears are the same. There is a brown bear population on Kodiak Island which is sometimes considered its own subspecies, as they are are extremely huge due to ideal natural conditions there.
The smaller bears in North America would be the black bears - those are the ones where you could have a chance to fight and/or flight. I have seen signs in state parks inhibited by both which differentiate between what to do when attacked by either of them. Though it's not always easy for a layman to tell the difference between them, especially under pressure, the color of the fur is no clear indication, as it greatly varies.

The standard recommendation to get on the ground and lay on your stomach when attacked is for the reason to protect your inner organs - usually you should also put your hands around yopur neck to protect it.
You can't outrun a bear, you are the worse climber and the worse fighter.
The chaces are great that you will never see a bear, as usually they smell you before you have a chance to see them. You are in their living room, and usually they want to know what's going on and usually avoid humans - not their prey scheme. What makes a meeting between Mr Bear and Mr Human dangerous is when the bear gets either surprised by your presence or when it's a bear that relates humans and food - the latter would be the so called problem bears, usually bears who lost their shyness against humans, could be bears who were fed by them, or bears who plundered from human setlements. I had a co-worker from Ontario, who told me the best place to watch bears in his hometown was the dump :DL.

So avoiding bears by making sounds is the most recommended solution - the locals in Alaska tell that the bears over there love to hear poems by Lord Byron, in abundance of wisdom about those, I noticed that German Schlager also works :D

Trying to intimidate a bear is a bad idea - this is his game, and that's where he is good at. For example, if he stands on two legs can be a sign of this. Another intimidation method would be a charge at you wheree he stops some meters in front of you. That's why it would be terrible to try to yell at him or throw rocks in this moment. What makes the meeting between a human and a bear often dangerous is that these creatures have only limited body language. You can't really tell anything from his face, other indicators can have different meanings, so it's nearly impossible to tell what he wants from this.

So the best way is to slowly retreat, out of his path, out of the comfort zone of the bear. Don't turen you back on him (prey) don't stare into his eyes (danger). You can speak silently to him.

For worst case scenarios you can carry bear spray, it is a pepper spray in a huge-ass container. Don't know if it's stronger than normal one (I doubt it), but the portion size is the right one for a bear. In Germany, the correcponding size would be the 0.5 - 2l "family-size" containers which you can buy here.

Oh, and I love those big teddies, that's why I wrote so much about it, they are amazing creatures, though I would never let my guard down when I see them.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Hand over your pickernick basket and you'll be fine...

[Dan D]

Apropos „problem bear“:

Kurt Beck, German Social Democrat politician, did not like this „Titanic Magazin“ title page:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8839/problembr.jpg

Caption: Problem bear gone wild: Pick off the beast!

[Sailor Steve]

I think the first thing many of us would do before any of the above is fill our pants :DL
And then you have a weapon, all set to go. :sunny:

Pepper spray might be good, but I'm starting to like the idea of a can of Wasp & Hornet spray - 30-foot range, solid stream, accurate and extremely nasty to anything it hits in the face. I recently read about its use as a home-defense weapon, and it should work on bigger predators as well.

[Jimbuna]

And then you have a weapon, all set to go. :sunny:

Pepper spray might be good, but I'm starting to like the idea of a can of Wasp & Hornet spray - 30-foot range, solid stream, accurate and extremely nasty to anything it hits in the face. I recently read about its use as a home-defense weapon, and it should work on bigger predators as well.

Well you test it on a bear and be sure to let us know :DL

[Skybird]

Sky, Sky, Sky, so young and so suicidal....;)
First of all, Grizzlies and brown bears are the same. There is a brown bear population on Kodiak Island which is sometimes considered its own subspecies, as they are are extremely huge due to ideal natural conditions there.
The smaller bears in North America would be the black bears - those are the ones where you could have a chance to fight and/or flight. I have seen signs in state parks inhibited by both which differentiate between what to do when attacked by either of them. Though it's not always easy for a layman to tell the difference between them, especially under pressure, the color of the fur is no clear indication, as it greatly varies.

The standard recommendation to get on the ground and lay on your stomach when attacked is for the reason to protect your inner organs - usually you should also put your hands around yopur neck to protect it.
You can't outrun a bear, you are the worse climber and the worse fighter.
The chaces are great that you will never see a bear, as usually they smell you before you have a chance to see them. You are in their living room, and usually they want to know what's going on and usually avoid humans - not their prey scheme. What makes a meeting between Mr Bear and Mr Human dangerous is when the bear gets either surprised by your presence or when it's a bear that relates humans and food - the latter would be the so called problem bears, usually bears who lost their shyness against humans, could be bears who were fed by them, or bears who plundered from human setlements. I had a co-worker from Ontario, who told me the best place to watch bears in his hometown was the dump :DL.

So avoiding bears by making sounds is the most recommended solution - the locals in Alaska tell that the bears over there love to hear poems by Lord Byron, in abundance of wisdom about those, I noticed that German Schlager also works :D

Trying to intimidate a bear is a bad idea - this is his game, and that's where he is good at. For example, if he stands on two legs can be a sign of this. Another intimidation method would be a charge at you wheree he stops some meters in front of you. That's why it would be terrible to try to yell at him or throw rocks in this moment. What makes the meeting between a human and a bear often dangerous is that these creatures have only limited body language. You can't really tell anything from his face, other indicators can have different meanings, so it's nearly impossible to tell what he wants from this.

So the best way is to slowly retreat, out of his path, out of the comfort zone of the bear. Don't turen you back on him (prey) don't stare into his eyes (danger). You can speak silently to him.

For worst case scenarios you can carry bear spray, it is a pepper spray in a huge-ass container. Don't know if it's stronger than normal one (I doubt it), but the portion size is the right one for a bear. In Germany, the correcponding size would be the 0.5 - 2l "family-size" containers which you can buy here.

Oh, and I love those big teddies, that's why I wrote so much about it, they are amazing creatures, though I would never let my guard down when I see them.

Grizzly bears and Brownbears are NOT the same, the first is a sub-species of the latter, also there are differences between Northamerican and European Brownbears.

European Brown bear: Ursus arctos arctos

American Brown bear:
Grizzly bear: Ursus arctos horribiles
Kodiak bear: Ursus arctos middendorffi

In america, brownbears are either Grizzlies or Kodiaks. "Brownbears" usually mean the European variant.

On intimidating bears:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57VbE0J9niw

I do not find it again, but we have had videos two or three years ago showing bears being chased up trees by small puppies since the puppies behaved different from the normal scheme of behavior bears are used to. It'S this what I was wondering about: is a brownbear intimidated or enraged when being confronted with a behavior pattern that he is not used to?

Sloth bears (Melursus ursinus) have a reputation to be very aggressive and easily go on the attack if they meet something unfamiliar. Polar bears (Ursus maritimus) are notoriously hungry due to the harsh environment they live in, with little prey, so their curiosity also can easily make them aggressive, plus they have one of the most excellent noses in the whole animal kingdom. Brownbears on the other hand are said to be a mixed bag in their reaction to unforseen meetings and events, can be shy, can be aggressive. Probably due to the things you listed.

That's why I start wondering whether the Swiss really are wise with their recommendations.

[Skybird]

Apropos „problem bear“:

Kurt Beck, German Social Democrat politician, did not like this „Titanic Magazin“ title page:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8839/problembr.jpg

Caption: Problem bear gone wild: Pick off the beast!

:har: :har:
Now this caught me by surprise, so I bursted!

[August]

Bears are bears. Even the smaller black bear will happily rip your face off if it wants to. Bring a (large caliber) gun when you go into the woods and you need not fear them.

Oh and never forget the old saying: "You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun the person you're with. :DL

[Karle94]

Not to mention that the polar bear can kill you with one swing of one of its paws.

[August]

Not to mention that the polar bear can kill you with one swing of one of its paws.

And like Grizzlies will actively hunt humans... :yep:

[Skybird]

And then you have a weapon, all set to go. :sunny:

Pepper spray might be good, but I'm starting to like the idea of a can of Wasp & Hornet spray - 30-foot range, solid stream, accurate and extremely nasty to anything it hits in the face. I recently read about its use as a home-defense weapon, and it should work on bigger predators as well.

I used a can of CS gas on a German shepard dog, once, immediately after school, when I distributed newpspaper in the wee hours of the morning. He got the load right in his face. He immediately fell flat, put both feet over his nose, and never m oved again. When I passed that place again three minutes later, he still was laying there, almopst motionless. Must have been the shock of his life.

It was no useless cruelty by me, but self-defence, the dog was angry and approached me with obvious aggressiveness, when it was 1 meter away and bit the air repeatedly, I decided that it was close enough.

But i admit, the reaction and the sight, in a grim manner still makes me giggle.

[Oberon]

I've heard of the advice of lying flat on the ground and being allowed to be sniffed before, it'd take a lot of balls to do that, but I guess one of the alternatives is having your balls removed by said bear. :hmmm:

Personally I would a) not make eye contact, I think with just about any animal this is seen as a challenge, b) back away slowly and c) be sure to talk softly as I do so that I'm not seen as trying to be sneaky.

It's amazing how many animals will not feel threatened by you if you are noisy. My mother and I used to do some cleaning at the local bird sanctuary which had a nice collection of deer and wildlife in the surrounding environs, she used to ride a little yellow Honda Melody moped, and I rode a pushbike. The deer would ignore her in the noisy bright yellow moped but spook at me in the quiet pushbike.

Was such a beautiful ride, just as the sun was coming up, birds starting to sing, deer in the mist. Little slice of heaven.

Not many bears though... :hmmm: :haha:

[Nippelspanner]

...would try to intimdate and surprise him by becoming loud in yelling, throwing things at him and "attack" him with anything I find in sticks and stones.

Yeaaaah, of course you would... :roll:

[Skybird]

Yeaaaah, of course you would... :roll:
People do strange things when running away failed, they get pushed into a corner, and panic! ;) There are even kind of precedences!

[Jimbuna]

Oh and never forget the old saying: "You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun the person you're with. :DL

LOL :DL

[RickC Sniper]

http://www.mountainnature.com/wildlife/bears/bearencounters.htm

This website pretty much agrees with Skybirds tactics. It does not recommend laying flat on the ground until a last resort.

[Bilge_Rat]

In general, bears are as wary of humans as pretty much any other animal. They are only really a threat if you surprise them or they feel threatened.

At my cottage, 2 hours north of montreal, we have bears and wolves in the area. I saw a bear last year early one morning while walking my dogs. It was sniffing around one of my neighbour's garbage can. At first, I thought it was a big dog. As soon as it saw me, it took off in the forest. For such a large animal, it makes surprisingly little noise.

The only animal I ever met which is totally unafraid of humans are sharks. About 10-11 years ago, I participated in a "shark dive" in the Bahamas, scuba diving in 40-45 feet of water in an area where they regularly feed the sharks. Most are small sharks 6-9 foot long. However, unlike every other animal/fish on earth, sharks are totally unafraid of humans and will not swim away or try to avoid you. They also have totally dead eyes, very unnnerving. At the beginning of the dive, I was so fascinated that I wandered away from the group and found myself swimming in formation with 3 sharks, two of which slowly came up on my right while a third slowly swam up on my left, all three eyeing me a bit too closely for comfort. I did not wander away the group after that. Bears are just big dogs by comparaison.

[Penguin]

Grizzly bears and Brownbears are NOT the same, the first is a sub-species of the latter, also there are differences between Northamerican and European Brownbears.

European Brown bear: Ursus arctos arctos

American Brown bear:
Grizzly bear: Ursus arctos horribiles
Kodiak bear: Ursus arctos middendorffi

In america, brownbears are either Grizzlies or Kodiaks. "Brownbears" usually mean the European variant.



There are not really distinctive features that can really tell the difference between a North American Brown bear and its European/Asian cousins. Bears on this side of the pond can also have grizzled tips on their fur. As written before, even the definition of the Kodiak bear (another example being the Hokkaido bear- Ursus arctos yesoenis ) as a subspecies of the Brown Bear is debated among zoologists.
If you would put a pregnant Kodiak bear into the Finnish woods, you could not really distinguish her offspring from the Finnish bears - other than by the alcoholic beverage preferences of course :03:


I do not find it again, but we have had videos two or three years ago showing bears being chased up trees by small puppies since the puppies behaved different from the normal scheme of behavior bears are used to. It'S this what I was wondering about: is a brownbear intimidated or enraged when being confronted with a behavior pattern that he is not used to?


Can't tell you anything about that, my wise "Radio Eriwan"-like answer wozuld be: it depends :DL



Pepper spray might be good, but I'm starting to like the idea of a can of Wasp & Hornet spray - 30-foot range, solid stream, accurate and extremely nasty to anything it hits in the face. I recently read about its use as a home-defense weapon, and it should work on bigger predators as well.

I've heard about the wasp spray, though I would not recommend it against bears for the reason that their most important organ is the nose. Pepper has the advantage that it almost instantly reduces the capability of this organ to work properly. I've heard that wasp spray must be nasty for the eyes, but an important factor is to hit those little marbles, with pepper spraying in the general direction of the attacking bear would be sufficent.
Another thing why pepper is imo superior is that brand sprays are really made to work in the important moment - I doubt that wasp spray cans have this high standard in quality - most people don't care if their wasp spray has to be shaken before use or doesn't work instantly but in the second try.

Also important considering 2-legged unfriendly creatures is that it works against drunk/drugged people (no 100% guarantee though), don't know how good hornet spray is at this.


Bears are bears. Even the smaller black bear will happily rip your face off if it wants to. Bring a (large caliber) gun when you go into the woods and you need not fear them.

Oh and never forget the old saying: "You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun the person you're with. :DL


Most people I've heard recommend at least a .357 to do the job on a bear. Though you are forgetting the most important thing: training! If you are not sure to hit a moving target, charging with 25 miles an hour towards you, then a gun is not of much use. However the sound of a firing gun can chase off a bear.
Or maybe the next time I'll be in bear country I'll take a one-legged friend with me :O:

[August]

There are not really distinctive features that can really tell the difference between a North American Brown bear and its European/Asian cousins. Bears on this side of the pond can also have grizzled tips on their fur. As written before, even the definition of the Kodiak bear (another example being the Hokkaido bear- Ursus arctos yesoenis ) as a subspecies of the Brown Bear is debated among zoologists.
If you would put a pregnant Kodiak bear into the Finnish woods, you could not really distinguish her offspring from the Finnish bears - other than by the alcoholic beverage preferences of course :03:

Sounds to me like the differences between these various species of bear are less than those between humans.

[Penguin]

Sounds to me like the differences between these various species of bear are less than those between humans.

Well, the human species residing in the US are certainly distinguishable from the European species by their preference for tasteless beer :O:

[frau kaleun]

I've heard this before many times, that the best way to avoid bear attacks is to lie completely still on the ground and "play dead" until the bear gets bored with you and decides you're neither prey nor threat and goes away.

Doesn't work with grizzlies, though, for them you need to be making some kind of constant, strange (to their ears) noise that will alert them to your presence so they will just stay out of your way. The most common suggestion was to wear a necklace with little jingly bells on it that would always be jingling and jangling as you moved through the wilderness.

Of course it's also simple common sense to leave an area if you happen to notice any fresh grizzly dung on the ground, and fortunately it's really easy to identify grizzly droppings.

They're the ones with all the little jingly bells mixed in.

[August]

Well, the human species residing in the US are certainly distinguishable from the European species by their preference for tasteless beer :O:

Well shucks :shucks:, at least we know that beer is supposed to be served ice cold. :D

[Jimbuna]

They're the ones with all the little jingly bells mixed in.

LOL :DL

[Penguin]

Somehow I got the feeling that this thread went from a bear to a beer thread :DL

Well shucks :shucks:, at least we know that beer is supposed to be served ice cold. :D

I think like most US-soldiers in Germany, you were probably stationed further in the South - an area of which us in the Rhineland think it is inhabited by barbarians and primitive tribes - though they're not as barbaric towards beer like those Tommies. :DL

The recommended drinking temperature for our brew here is 8°C (exactly 46.4°F) We also have the tactical advantage that the standard glass contains 0.2l (little less than half a pint). So while the Bavarians get a huge 1l glass in their beer gardens, it gets warm and decarbonated quickly, while our resuppies are always fresh and cold. :sunny:

(And I won't tell the story of a friend from East Germany who went to a beer garden herer with me, ordered an ice-cold beer and received a Pilsener with ice cubes in it :doh: - ups too late)

[Osmium Steele]

From the land of sky blue waters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o83xxWCel8g), American bears prefer Hamms.

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/UncleDearest/Vintage_Hamm_s_Beer_Bear___Can_Vacuum_Sign.jpg

EDIT: Oohhh 1K. :DL

[August]

Somehow I got the feeling that this thread went from a bear to a beer thread :DL



I think like most US-soldiers in Germany, you were probably stationed further in the South - an area of which us in the Rhineland think it is inhabited by barbarians and primitive tribes - though they're not as barbaric towards beer like those Tommies. :DL

The recommended drinking temperature for our brew here is 8°C (exactly 46.4°F) We also have the tactical advantage that the standard glass contains 0.2l (little less than half a pint). So while the Bavarians get a huge 1l glass in their beer gardens, it gets warm and decarbonated quickly, while our resuppies are always fresh and cold. :sunny:

(And I won't tell the story of a friend from East Germany who went to a beer garden herer with me, ordered an ice-cold beer and received a Pilsener with ice cubes in it :doh: - ups too late)

Yeah it can be difficult for us Americans to realize how much diversity there is in a country that is only about the size of one of our (larger) states. Our beer tastes are pretty much the same across the nation; Ice cold and in large quantities. :DL