People are not naturally kind.

[Ducimus]

This is a great video of how people really are.

http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/crime/2012/04/09/tsr-sylvester-man-beaten-baltimore.cnn.html

I have never believed in "basic human goodness" or that somehow people are naturally good, just mislead. No, people are quite the opposite. A person (singular) might be, but people (plural) are not.

Also, the victim is an idiot.
- Never go out drinking alone.
- Never go out drinking with people you can't trust.
- Never go out to clubs or bars with anything you'd hate to lose. IE "Combat Wallet".
- Never go into neighborhoods you don't belong. Espeically at night.

[Rockstar]

The white guy on the ground must have gotten what he deserved. Surely he insulted one of the upstanding young women shown in the film. Maybe he robbed the home of one of the young men or threatened one of them by knife point. Im glad the community neigborhood watch came together and confronted him about it. I mean if he were really just simply innocently walking through the neighborhood having a good time Im sure the nation and media would be outraged and demand these people be tried in a court of law, found guilty and promptly hung.

This is also a fine example of how gun control could work. As it was this unarmed community which foiled the sinister plans of this white crimminal. They should be commended for their bavery in a national ceremoney or something.

.

[Ducimus]

As drunk as that guy was, if he was carrying, someone would have taken it from him and shot him with his own gun.

[Onkel Neal]

Nothing unusual here. A bunch of idiots. Drinking in public = idiots.

People who are not normally out late, drinking, acting stupid would be less likely to attack this guy or rob him.

[STEED]

Looks like your typical weekend around here. :nope:

[Gerald]

^^ :haha:

[BossMark]

Looks like your typical weekend around here. :nope:
Yep chucking out time on a Friday night.

[STEED]

^^ :haha:

That's what inner city's are like now Vendor on Friday & Saturday nights every weekend. There are a number of factors to take in and some of them are...No hope, future due to the economic mess we are in.

[Jimbuna]

Looks like your typical weekend around here. :nope:

Aye....a typical weekend evening in the city of Newcastle, London, Edinburgh, Glasgow etc. etc.

[Gerald]

That's what inner city's are like now Vendor on Friday & Saturday nights every weekend. There are a number of factors to take in and some of them are...No hope, future due to the economic mess we are in. I guess this is a phenomenon that spread to different countries, what you describe, :hmmm:

[Platapus]

Few people have a lower opinion of humanity than I do, but I have to admit that I am frequently surprised at the decency of people.:yep:

[Ducimus]

Few people have a lower opinion of humanity than I do, but I have to admit that I am frequently surprised at the decency of people.:yep:


I must be one of those few people. :O:

[Jimbuna]

The people (if that's what you choose to call them) are not stereotypical of the majority in society....thank God.

[AVGWarhawk]

The people (if that's what you choose to call them) are not stereotypical of the majority in society....thank God.

I would have to agree here. We also must take a look of group dynamics concerning any single individual that is out of his element(the guy is from VA I believe, vulnerable and probably inciting a problem(via his drunken stupor). In short, he is an easy target. We don't walk into the lions den with a steak hanging around our neck. Even so, the group should not have done what was done. This is a hate crime IMO but the likes of Al Sharpton will not be marching the streets of Baltimore.

I have seen more people make good for others in a bad situation than those in a bad situation made worse. Generally I believe people are good but a younger crowd egged on and fueled by the juice can become a bad problem as seen here in the video.

[Ducimus]

The people (if that's what you choose to call them) are not stereotypical of the majority in society....thank God.

For some reason, this bit from a movie comes to mind. :O:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOhUfGxKGy0

[Penguin]

I can't see how this story makes the national news other than showing how foolish people are: the victim for the stated reasons and also the thugs for uploading their crime to the web. Other than that it looks not especially "savage" and is sadly not something uncommon.

However the video is quite interesting: check out the girl at 1:07 "You would think that they would intervene and try to help" - welcome to reality college-girl from lala-land... :doh:

What I don't get from the vid is that: was the key for the Audi worth $300 :o or the car itself?


Also, the victim is an idiot.
- Never go out drinking alone.
- Never go out drinking with people you can't trust.
- Never go out to clubs or bars with anything you'd hate to lose. IE "Combat Wallet".
- Never go into neighborhoods you don't belong. Espeically at night.

I want to add:
- if a group of total strangers is uncommonly "friendly" towards you, and makes you the center of their attention: be extremely alert


This is a hate crime IMO but the likes of Al Sharpton will not be marching the streets of Baltimore.


If it was a hate crime, the beating would be much more brutal. The criminals seemed to have more interest in his stuff than in his skin color. The humiliation of the victim is more a sign of idiotic macho-thug culture than racism.

[krashkart]

It's a bit of a dichotomy with me. On the one hand I rage vehemently about how crappy people are; but on the other I have to remind myself that my attitude towards things makes a whole world of difference. If I look back on the number of people who helped me out when things were rough and try to count them, I wouldn't even bother to guesstimate a total. There are too many to count and most of their faces have faded with time. Now as opposed to the number of crappy people I've come across in life? The good outnumber the bad.

Just because a few buttheads jump into a group beatdown on some piss-drunk dimwit doesn't mean that the entire human race is crap. Any number of things could have set those folks off, and frankly I don't give a dang about their motivations. No matter who we are and what we do in life, sooner or later we're going to have to own up to our mistakes. How we handle things in life is what separates the gems from the trash. Most of us don't go around beating the tar out of everything bipedal because we are aware of the consequences of those kinds of actions vs. the rewards we reap for being good troopers in life. We keep our chins up and do our job, pay our bills, don't pick fights with funny-looking strangers and hey! Whaddya know? All of a sudden we realize that we don't have cops ramming the front door in to bring us to justice. We get to enjoy our rights as citizens. It's a learning experience. The ones who get stuck in that rut are the ones who continue to cause problems in society.

If the right people are in place at the right time then the right thing gets done. Those of us who give half a **** can and will do right by our fellows at some point in our lives, and those experiences are often quite rewarding. And those who not only give half a **** but are willing to put themselves at risk in order to do so, are already out there on the line (or learning to do so) helping the rest of us. :yep:

Good vs. Bad. Good with the bad. It's pretty much all the same to me these days, but there are still some things that happen that really make me wonder what got into that person's head. :hmmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

If it was a hate crime, the beating would be much more brutal. The criminals seemed to have more interest in his stuff than in his skin color. The humiliation of the victim is more a sign of idiotic macho-thug culture than racism.

Does the definition of hate crime state brutal beatings a prerequisite to being a hate crime? Spray painting the "n" word anywhere is a hate crime. Spray painting the Swastika on a Jewish worship center is a hate crime. No brutality in a spray can yet it is a hate crime.

I can't see how this story makes the national news other than showing how foolish people are: the victim for the stated reasons and also the thugs for uploading their crime to the web. Other than that it looks not especially "savage" and is sadly not something uncommon.

I can see why it is not national news...because Trayvon Martin has captured the national attention with marches, riots and the New Black Panthers forming a posse to execute a lynching. The New Black Panthers have verbally stated in no uncertain terms they want Zimmerman dead or alive. Yet, Holder sits idle by doing NOTHING. Al Sharpeton is doing what he does best. Agitate. So yes, I can see how this story could not make national news when there is plenty of sensationalism and gas for the Martin/Zimmerman case. The same circus with Casey and the daughter who was missing for months and trails of endless lies. But yes, stripping a guy in the streets relieving him of what he has is definitely not savage at all. It is a day at the beach. So tell me, how often do you see this in your neighborhood?

[Tribesman]

Rolling a drunk, a common everyday worldwide crime that has probably existed since a caveman first went wobbly on fermented mammoth urine.

I can see why it is not national news
Errrrrrrr...I didn't realise CNN was just a local news channel, better tell them to take that video and move it to the nationals

[Stealhead]

I think that booze is largely to blame for the entire incident obviously the Mountain Dew guy was most drunk but it is pretty obvious that most if not all of the others are also intoxicated just not as far along as Mr.Dew.

Also take into consideration that this happened in Baltimore which is known to have some uh upstanding citizens in certain neighborhoods.I think people are people some are good some are bad and many are in between when which ever suits them best so to speak.

I would agree that it was not a hate crime but more an idiot crime;a bunch of "liquid courage" people taking advantage of a dude that was out of place and obviously had no "allies" with him who ever his "friends" are those are the ones I personally would be most upset with because they obviously left the guy in a dangerous state.A good friend would never just leave a very drunk friend to their own devices in the middle of a large city.

I feel any person who thinks that all people are intrinsically bad or intrinsically good is heading towards folly humans are far too complex for such black and white notions obviously the human race survived some how and that fact alone should tell you something. Further more the media always focuses on the bad stories not the good ones many good things are done by people that never get much if any attention at all beyond the persons involved.I can absolutely guarantee you many people in a state such as Mr.Dew had nothing bad happen to them because someone came along and helped them in fact that probably happens more often than what happened to Mr.Dew.

Still the people that left Mr.Dew behind are the ones who should hang their heads lowest I think Mr.Dew now knows that some people he thought of as friends are not such good ones.I do not know about others but I have never ever left a drunken friend behind.

[Penguin]

Does the definition of hate crime state brutal beatings a prerequisite to being a hate crime? Spray painting the "n" word anywhere is a hate crime. Spray painting the Swastika on a Jewish worship center is a hate crime. No brutality in a spray can yet it is a hate crime.


I looked up the definition, in this case MD's law section 10-304 would be the relevant one, which defines a "hate crime" as something against someones "race, color, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, or national origin" (http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2005/gcr/10-304.html)

Yet there is nothing indicating that the vic was specifically targeted because of any of this rather than his posessions. Baltimore's police chief seems to have the same opinion; he calls it "drunken opportunistic criminality." (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-bealefeld-hate-crime-20120410,0,173475.story)

Though I did not want talk about the legal definition about what constituates a hate crame. I wanted to stress the point that in crime committed out of hatred you would see much more passion and negative emotion towards the victim, thus a much more brutal beating. In most cases when people hate each others guts (or skin color) the beating would not stop so early. :shifty:

Personally I don't believe in hate crimes. It does not make a crime more gruesome if someone is targeted because of a wallet or something else. A crime is a crime, seldom committed out of love.
Even if racial slurs are uttered during a fight (which are not heard on the video), this does not indicate a hate crime, nothing more than using "fighting words", the intention to attack the other person verbally. The first one sees is the other person's outer appearance, so this gets targeted.



I can see why it is not national news...because Trayvon Martin has captured the national attention with marches, riots and the New Black Panthers forming a posse to execute a lynching. The New Black Panthers have verbally stated in no uncertain terms they want Zimmerman dead or alive. Yet, Holder sits idle by doing NOTHING. Al Sharpeton is doing what he does best. Agitate. So yes, I can see how this story could not make national news when there is plenty of sensationalism and gas for the Martin/Zimmerman case. The same circus with Casey and the daughter who was missing for months and trails of endless lies. But yes, stripping a guy in the streets relieving him of what he has is definitely not savage at all. It is a day at the beach. So tell me, how often do you see this in your neighborhood?

The Martin case made international news, imo mostly because it can paint the cliché of the trigger-happy Amercan so nicely... :dead:
However I don't want to write anything about that, contrary to the media and the racist idiots from the NBP, I don't want to judge prematurely. Can't say anything to the Casey case, as I don't have it on my radar.

My point about national news is that this is nothing special, happens dozends of times any weekend in the US.
Yes, humilating a victim, by stripping him is not so common, but not unheard of. My comment about the savageness still stands: The guy got a black eye and some bruises: not a walk at the beach, but not especially savage; no boot party, no stomping on the head, no use of weapons. However this is typical media speech to catch the viewer's attention: a beating has to be "savage", a murder has to be "brutal".

The Brits on here already said, that this is a common thing in their drinking quarters of the town during the weekend, same here. In my neighborhood, there are no pubs open after midnight, so not much of a chance to see that at 2am. However if you roam our Old Town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altstadt_%28D%C3%BCsseldorf%29), crawled with pubs and clubs, on a Saturday night, drunken fights and beatings are a common occurance . It seems to be the same everywhere. When alcohol and crowds are involved, the mood can change from a happy gathering to a brutal beating within seconds. :-?

[U570]

What I don't get, is why would you want to get so drunk that you can't remember last night and do things like this. The greatest idea, which I think everyone on this forum knows, is to drink and be merry, but be sober enough to remember and have judgment. :nope::nope::nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

I looked up the definition, in this case MD's law section 10-304 would be the relevant one, which defines a "hate crime" as something against someones "race, color, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, or national origin" (http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland...cr/10-304.html)

The kid is in a predominantly black neighborhood. He is targeted for his drunken state and probably color. Would the outcome have been different if this was a black kid? We can only conjecture.

Yet there is nothing indicating that the vic was specifically targeted because of any of this rather than his posessions. Baltimore's police chief seems to have the same opinion; he calls it "drunken opportunistic criminality." (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...0,173475.story)

Baltimore's Police Chief is white. Do you really think he would suggest this was a hate crime in predominantly black city? He already has people marching for Drayvon Martin. The city is in the top two for homicide and working it's way to top two in violence. Not great advertising putting his out on the net and news. This is just getting around two weeks after the fact. Much of what goes on for cities and decisions made are of a political nature.

Though I did not want talk about the legal definition about what constituates a hate crame. I wanted to stress the point that in crime committed out of hatred you would see much more passion and negative emotion towards the victim, thus a much more brutal beating. In most cases when people hate each others guts (or skin color) the beating would not stop so early.

Hate crimes do not always encompass more passion and negative emotion towards victims. Simply spray painting derogatory slurs and signs is a hate crime. It does not encompass a brutal beating. Vandalizing. Read the code below.

Article 49B, Annotated Code of Maryland,
enforced by the Maryland Commission on
Human Relations, protects people against
hate crimes in their homes, from harassment
by neighbors, or interference with fair housing
rights based on race, national origin, sex,
familial status, color, religion, marital status,
physical and mental disability or sexual orientation.
Maryland law addresses hate crimes specifically
through Article 27, 470A – Religious and
Ethnic Crimes. Under Article 27, it is illegal in
Maryland, punishable by fine and/or imprisonment,
for any person to vandalize or attempt
to vandalize any religious property or to interfere
by force or threat of force with any person
in the exercise of their religious beliefs.
It is also forbidden to damage, destroy, burn
or otherwise vandalize the property of a person
or an institution because of their race or
beliefs, or to harass or commit a crime against
any person because of their “race, color, religious
beliefs or national origin.”
This statute also provides an extra sentencing
enhancement for those crimes motivated by
hate.


My point about national news is that this is nothing special, happens dozends of times any weekend in the US.
Yes, humilating a victim, by stripping him is not so common, but not unheard of. My comment about the savageness still stands: The guy got a black eye and some bruises: not a walk at the beach, but not especially savage; no boot party, no stomping on the head, no use of weapons. However this is typical media speech to catch the viewer's attention: a beating has to be "savage", a murder has to be "brutal".

Your definition of hate crime does not encompass the entire picture of what a hate crime consists of. The definition is quite clear in the state of MD.

[AVGWarhawk]

Rolling a drunk, a common everyday worldwide crime that has probably existed since a caveman first went wobbly on fermented mammoth urine.


Errrrrrrr...I didn't realise CNN was just a local news channel, better tell them to take that video and move it to the nationals


Thanks for your two cents. It's always refreshing.

[Penguin]

The kid is in a predominantly black neighborhood. He is targeted for his drunken state and probably color.
Would the outcome have been different if this was a black kid? We can only conjecture.


Of course does the guy stand out in a black neighborhood. If the guy was black he would also stand out, not by his color, but by his behavior - things that sign the attackers that he is an easy target and not from their hood. I wonder how you claim the probability that he was targeted for his color? This is just speculation.



Baltimore's Police Chief is white. Do you really think he would suggest this was a hate crime in predominantly black city? He already has people marching for Drayvon Martin. The city is in the top two for homicide and working it's way to top two in violence. Not great advertising putting his out on the net and news. This is just getting around two weeks after the fact. Much of what goes on for cities and decisions made are of a political nature.


Ehhm, when I looked for the hate crime laws in MD on the web, a case from last year always came up: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/blog/2011/05/hate_crime_charges_in_mcdonald.html
Yes, there was no Martin case in the 24-hour news cycle at this time. However did 2 black women in Baltimore face hate crime charges - for an assault on a white person (though the reason was her sexuality in this specific case). Do you really think most people in Baltimore would deny the fact that black people are able to commit hate crimes?



Hate crimes do not always encompass more passion and negative emotion towards victims. Simply spray painting derogatory slurs and signs is a hate crime. It does not encompass a brutal beating. Vandalizing. Read the code below.

Your definition of hate crime does not encompass the entire picture of what a hate crime consists of. The definition is quite clear in the state of MD.

I wanted to go away from the dry juristic definition towards real-life experiences, how "hate crimes" look (when a person to person fight is involved). For example, football hooligans beating up a guy from the other team would not fall under the definition of a hate crime, same with Bloods beating up a Crip. Crimes, that certainly bear a lot of hate towards the opponent, not less hate than a Nazi beating up a jewish person has.