First impressions...two years too late

[finchOU]

Alright, first off this is another what SH5 means to me and how I like/dislike parts of it piece. Some back ground. Being a child of the 80's/90's I grew up playing flights sims and got addicted from a very young age (AOP, AOE, 1942). These games planted a long desire to fly for a living (which I am very very lucky to have a job doing today). Around the time I was in 7th grade I decided my obsession with flight sims was a bit narrow minded..so I decided to run down to the store and see what "other" sims the world had to offer (pre house hold internet.....yes there was a time!!). Low and behold I find three games to fit the bill..... Task Force 1942, Across the Rhine, and AOTD. All three games were unique in their own way, fun and immersive with impressive manual's etc. But AOTD really really sucked me in. The whole build up to sinking a ship by getting to the right position....keeping your stealth...then having the tables turn on you having to evade to live to tell about it really really kept me coming back for more. And then I uped the realism...and found a completly different and challenging sim. Well life happened...I grew up.....chased women...got my dream job. Well after College I learned of the SH series and figured with some down time I'd give SH2 a shot...... I wasnt impressed! Graphicaly wise...it was much better than AOD....but something was lost in the Simulation and Gameplay aspect that AOD seemed to bring. AOD just SIMed better.....from AI to other aspects...it just seemed like AOD was a better Sim than SH2. This shocked me considering I'd litterally been out of the game for 8-10 years.

Long story shorter: I joined SubSim seeing links from the SH3 prerelease forum at UBI. I was really looking forward to SH3 as, I thought, SH3 should be better than AOD out of the box. But that just didnt happen......sure they added a campaign (which I would assume would be "standard" since AOD)...but still it was very untested and buggy with so so AI which was still behind AOD (but it looked pretty)....modded extensively...and is now a very fun sim/game to play. I sat out for SH4...and sat out SH5 till I thought it would be ready to play. .......So....after alll that....my SH5 experiance.

Bought it for $7.00 or so at Amazon. Just installed last week on my min spec Laptop (as I wait for the super machine in the mail). Win 7, i3 2.27 Ghz proc, 4.00 GB RAM, 64 bit, ATI Radeon HD 5470. I was actually shocked that my Laptop would play it.....but I have it super turned down on the graphic specs.

My goal (right now) is to play patched stock for at least a patrol or two to gather some first impressions.

Like the opening video and main screen. Fired off the Campaign to jump right in. I love the whole sub idea...but thinking some things just look bad (again stock...dont jump on me for not MODing it ...)..things that stood out was the lack of blankets on the racks and the lack of "homey" things around the sub to make it seem more like a home away from home (Ive done two deployments on ships).

Lack of a "crowded" Sub....its not cramped with dudes...like I would expect.... but the FPS aspect is kind of cool.

Speaking of FPS aspect.......I wish I had options of animations to different rooms with hot keys. like hit a button and it auto walks the captain to the attack scope. I can just see me losing SA and valuable time while I dick around trying to get up and down the stairs and such.

Bridge is a great view, and in ways more realistic than say SH3, Like
no scolling Bearing in the Bino view but do have it in the UZO. But the lack of a steer to bearing sucks.

BUUUUUT I hate not being able to shout orders down the pipe when I need to......it is not realistic to have to go all the way down to order something like battlestations or whatever.

The basic UI in Stock is shocking and appalling to me as past Uboat simer. SH5 just looks feels and plays Gamey. Like...trying to try to hard to appeal to FPS 12 year old types who dont really want to work that hard at controlling a full sim (no offense to said 12 year old). There is way way too much going on ..on most action screens and is my number one immersion killer. The hide-a-way command menus of SH3 were the best thing since sliced bread IMHO. Speaking of Command buttons...Why?...Just Why? Stupid compas, speed, dive interface. Very very sad and gamey....why not let the player learn how it actually was instead of a dumbing down to cater to the idiot?

No TDC fuctionality...say what?? YHGTBSM....its like they watched Das Boat and since the Captain shouded all the imputs...you should have to need to touch the dials in SH5....but you can adjust other things he would shout too like Torp Speed...etc. This just does not make sense if one was to have played SH3 (tho I never used the notepad method in SH3). Options are always always better in a SIM as long as its realistic.

No writable Captains log..boooo....Gramaphone...really??..or ability to code decode messages (still waiting on this one) via the cypher machine.

Rudder amidships? Maybe i missed this one.

Clock?? Sure it's realistic in the command room...but if we time compress from the nav map...we need a clock on the nav map....right?? Oh ...what about contact reports that appear without a time stamp? kind of hard to plot an intercept course if you dont know when it was put on your map.

Lots more to write about ...but thats it for now...much to busy to be writting this as is....will get back to filling this out for my first patrol. (AGAIN.....THIS is a FIRST impression of Stock...please dont spam me to MOD...it will happen)

[misha1967]

First off, great post! It pretty much mirrors what I thought when I first saw the stock, unmodded SH5. Why bother? SH3 with GWX and SHC was a much better sim if not quite as pretty.

So I took a hiatus and waited, and now let me tell you! First off, when you get your new rig, you'll be kicking behind and taking names. Second, as to every single thing you mention that you miss in SH5, the mods take care of it. The first place to start is the NewUIs by TDW which will take care of "teleporting" to other stations, missing keyboard commands like rudder amidships, steer to bearing, gramophone AND radio, shouting orders to your crew without having to search them out, that mod alone takes care of most of what you're missing.

AND you can tweak it to mirror any interface you like, from SH3 to SH5 with your favorite features from every one of them added or removed in between.

Add to that Trev's OHII to extend the campaign to 1945 and add a whole load of new missions, the numerous atmosphere and graphics add-ons by Stormy, Sober and too many more people to mention, you'll never get done looking for new mods, and you'll be blown away. And your new rig in the mail will be able to run all of it and then some.

I used to play SH3 (modded) until the cows came home and I still consider it one of the best subsims ever, not going to give it up unless you drag it from my cold, dead hands, but the way SH5 is going, man...

You can't compare "stock" SH5 with what the Mod Corps has done with it, I wouldn't even be playing it if it wasn't for them, all I can say is prepare for the time of your life :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

Cool start! :rock:

Some months ago I titled my first SH5 thread the same way. I did something wrong and now my poor old PC won't run it at all. I'm waiting for a new one to start over again, but in the meantime maybe my experience can be of some help.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=189403

[finchOU]

misha...I know that most of this stuff has been fixed via MODS.......I personally need to play stock to have an appreciation of how much MODing the game has taken to get to it's current state. Why bother?.. (warning..Rant)....because I'm still perplexed that the downward spirl that Sim production has taken since the late 90's. I understand that without UBI we would be SOL as far as new Uboat sims go....and the market drives production.....it just makes one Sad that we can't get what we used to out of a Sim...praying it comes back. So...I guess...I'm opening up an old wound as far as peoples frustrations with Stock. Good....I want that frustration too in a way....so I know where it came from....and maybe to have an idea why things are MODed this way or that. Does that help??

Steve: yeah...nice, I've read most of your thread before...but i'm still trying take it as I see it from Stock...and will not MOD it till I get my New computer. I can't wait!! So yeah....tho problems I mention will not be new..... but I still feel the need to point them out....based on my own past Sim experiance. Maybe a bit selfish....maybe a bit "old news"...maybe even a bit dumb?? haha ...... but i'm just going to write. Not like a lot of new news has been jumping off this forum lately...

Feel free to correct me or point me towards a MOD if you must... or ignore my obvious already MODed things I bring up. Of course ..at somepoint I'm not giong to be able to take it and will upgrade (hence why I bought the game now and not two years ago).

[Sailor Steve]

I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to correct or help. It ran for awhile on my computer, but now when I boot it up I get past the loading screen but the "Office", where you're in the bunker, has big blurry squares over it. My poor rig is beyond its limits and SH5 now has to wait for a new computer. It may be waiting awhile.

[misha1967]

misha...I know that most of this stuff has been fixed via MODS.......I personally need to play stock to have an appreciation of how much MODing the game has taken to get to it's current state.

No worries. I actually found your post quite refreshing! A reminder of just how utterly horrid SH5 is in its originally published version, something that is easy to forget when you've been running it modded for a while.

Makes me appreciate the modders even more :up:

[finchOU]

Round two...ding ding!

Saved half way through the first real patrol to start this thread. Soo...some more observations.

Just found the Keyboard Key (have to Shift to get F1 on my lab top)...that helps fill some questions I had...but still there is alot left to be desired. Rudder Midships... My Z key operates "silent running" but the legend says it does somthing else. Gear up/down ??? No "turn to bearing" key which is really needed. Why only 5 degrees of rudder with the arrows....if you're manually operating the rudders ....I would assume you would want full (not have to shift+arrown for it).

The whole Nav screen is a mess IMHO. Sure they give you the basic tools for plotting but no converstion charts for basic stuff like KM to NM ..which of course is needed to find speed in knots. The big bubbley blud course lines really annoy me....the map annoys me. All the pop up clickable crap annoys me. I want something that seems as realistic as posible...so I want my Nav map and charts authenic...real course lines to look like they were drawn in penicl. What about a map with soundings so we at least have an idea of what the depth under keel is without having to give away our position (if that is even modelled). What about the KM grid system which is no where to be found? That missing alone should make any realism simmer scream bloody murder. I just dont see how they could develope so far off the script from a uboat sim and expect to be taken seriously. Where was the historical oversight? I guess thats the problem...trying too hard to expand to a broader audience of players...by trying to dumb it down and make it gamey and fun....vice Simmy and hard...maybe?? Sorry for the rant. I digress.....oh yeah...electronic Moboard!! hehe

Sun and Moon rise/set tables missing

why does the speed selector bar go to 30 knots??

ooooooh....this is a biggie for me.... damn lock fuctionality in general. Why?? sure i understand so that your weps O can start getting info...but its so hoaky and not realistic...espeically as im turning the sight and get the "Lock" pop up window....in the middle of the view. :damn: Speaking of periscope/UZO view....its way too bright....in fact night time is practially day time. sure their was a 3/4 full moon...but it was a broken cloud layer...should be reallhy really dark....but since i havent played enough yet...I cant speak to if it does fluctuate darkness.

Why are weather reports and critical nav info missing from the Navigators fuctions. would be nice to know a good estimation of how far I can expect to go at my current speed/sea state. The lack of function with the crew is very annoying...they do very little and are missing things we've had in the past! :down: what the hell does the Torp or Gunner guy do? Sound dude?

Speaking of crap....whats this levels of job function? Total crap! I get experiance...but the using points to buy abilities? come on!! Very stupid...do I get the Level 5 laser torpedos if I get enough renown? or the "sound guy" who can pull contacts out of his butt....dont have the game up right now ...but it just seemed very hoaky when I went through the crew management stuff. Seems like you have to buy natural ability like...eyesight....or listening. :dead:

another graphics issue...the whole halo effect highlighting things before you click on them (like talking to dudes or UZO..etc) is very gamey and lame. There seems to be no wake from your periscopes.

Dont like the footstep sounds....suuuure..its authentic FPS sound for sure...but its lame

The lack of TDC really really annoys me....I attacked a small convoy and wanted to shoot two torps and two diffent ships doing a 90 AOB shot. It worked out that I hit the far ship at like 3000 meters but missed the near one at 1000. The game is not set up good for multipule shots since you cant see gyro angle without switching to the nav map to guess at it (which I dont like seeing a vertical profile of where my trops are going anyway...kind of knitpicking here). What's my gyro angle again??

Recce man to me is too in your face takes up too much room on the screen. I personally want a stand alone scope screen with nothing on it but the scope view..but thats just me. and how do you exit the Recce manual without turning off your TDC/weapons officer? How do you open torpedo doors again? Does it even matter if

I loved the Deck Gun!! Minus the climb down to it everytime. my only complaint is the range scale in the middle of the optic ..hence cluttering what you're looking at. oh and how do you stop your crew from firing at a target without taking them off the gun?

The graphics...even turned way down I pretty impressive. But im not a huge graphics guy.

Range calculations are going to be a pain. I do like that you dont get instant Range from your watch...an estimate would be nice...but it will make it harder to get good course and speed calculations which may or may not be realistic....the stadimeter does not seem user friendly...and I dont like the fact that you have to have a target selected to use it. I had to trail a convoy for hours to get a good speed/course from them without manualy plotting it....getting there tho. So it made stalking the convoy a little more realistic in my opinion since I had to find out a different way to get the info i needed.

more later!!

[Trevally.]

more later!!

:o Can we take any more :O:

[quink99]

FinchOU, a most interesting post.

As soon as I get a bit of time I'll try to answer as many of your statements as I can. Those that I can't I'm sure will be answered by many here far more expert than I. In the interim, I think about 80 to 90 percent of your problems will be taken care of by installing this MOD.

NewUIs_TDC_6_9_0_ByTheDarkWraith

[THE_MASK]

Fantastic review of the vanilla SH5 , but why ?

[finchOU]

Dont need to splain myself! :DL again...sorry to dig up old wounds...but its good for me to play stock to get a basis of comparison for the MODs and I think its interesting to compare it to older sims to see the frame of mind of development these days......if that makes any sense.

[Sailor Steve]

It makes perfect sense to me. But I don't always make sense myself, so...:D

[croman81]

Bravo!

That really is an excellent review. This is the reason I didn't play this game for 2 years waiting for the amazing modders at subsim to try and salvage a game. And let me tell you... I admire your patience with the stock version. I couldn't do it. That game was a prime example of released crap.
I am currently using 47 mods to make the game work. And it does work wonderfully. I like immersion, not all are needed for the game to work - many mods add new radio stations or make the graphics even better... But, it is incredible that you need tons of mods, hours and hours of modding effort to make the game playable.
Once you mod the game and see it transform in front of you, like I've seen during the last 4 days, since I've started building my mod soup... you'll fully appreciate the amazing guys here at subsim. And you'll feel righteously angry at those idiots who released a crappy skeleton of a game.
Talking about rants... well, it seems to be the new trend (or tendenz, as one German politician rants in his speech on my sub radio) among sim developers. Have you seen the damage they've done to Microsoft's Flight Simulator?
Play a little, get angry - then mod it until it works. Properly modded, it's probably the best Silent Hunter (I've only played SH3-5). Good hunting!:salute:

[finchOU]

Sooo.. what is a HUD in SH5 speak (search rendered nothing)? In aviation speak its a Heads Up Display (which I miss!! :cry:).....I see there is a key for it ...shift Z i think...but nothing happened when i pressed it.

Getting more angry the more I play by the way.... :down:.....its pretty....but my new computer cant arrive soon enough so I can start MODing. Speaking of which...do Crew get more functionality with any of the MODs?

[misha1967]

Talking about rants... well, it seems to be the new trend (or tendenz, as one German politician rants in his speech on my sub radio)

That would be der Doktor Goebbels, singlehandedly taking credit for rescuing the German radio (modestly, of course) :har:

Boy, was that clown long-winded!

Speaking of which...do Crew get more functionality with any of the MODs?


Mighty Fine Crew Mod will take care of that for you, yes! :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

Sooo.. what is a HUD in SH5 speak (search rendered nothing)? In aviation speak its a Heads Up Display (which I miss!! :cry:).....I see there is a key for it ...shift Z i think...but nothing happened when i pressed it.
That's exactly what it is in the game - all the information stuff that is on the screen to tell you what's going on - the dials, the messages, the other stuff on the screen that you turn off so you can take screenshots.

[tat501]

I agree Finchou 100%. I can't actually play this stock game. I had a hard drive crash recently, reinstalled the game as stock (I normally play with about 40 mods) and realised I'd forgotten how crappy it actually was.

Stick with it though, as Neal and the others have said the modders have made this game great (don't take this as spam telling you to mod! Ive read the thread and know you're going to when you get the chance!)

I just hope (against all reasonable hope) that someone who worked on this game, or someone from ubisoft generally, or in fact any game developer who makes sims reads this thread to see what a mess they've made of the whole genre in recent years.

That said, they already know and don't care - they'll sell more games with eye candy than realism as everyone here knows but I don't want to go over well trodden ground again by going down that route...

[finchOU]

More observations.... Still on first patrol.

I've seem to have run aground after diving...even tho my Depth under Keel reads out 20-18 meters....hmmm?? can hear hull scraping or damage sounds...go to the periscope to look through the ridiculously clear water to see I am indeed very close if not on the bottom.

I think I mention before...but my mouse is acting weird. Its freaking out aka scolling too fast in FPS mode....but it has a slight annoying lag in the rest of the game.

I'm mention before at the lack of bearing info in the binocs...which I love since thats how it was IRL......but then you have that stupid immersion killing pop up nav map that you always have to close when switching views.

Crew point to nothing and dont use thier binocs.... not being able to dive while on deck is retarded...and could late lead to being killed due to the wasted time on the surface.

Just spotted a convoy of at least 7-8 ships in Sep 39 right off the eastern coast of england (north sea)...after a day eariler I attacked an unescorted fast convoy of 4 ships. But I have yet to run across lone merchants ...which was what historically what happened early on in the war.

I again dove into the crew management screen and almost vomited...again. Total Reveal, increase torp speed, ...need I say more? I still dont know how moral increases and decreases work. I talk to the crew...but they never have anything new to say......for wanting to make this a FPS...they could have added more dialoge..one would think. I'm proud of your rascals too #2! But maybe lets talk about how nice your wives figure is....since ..you know we are sailors and whats on our mind.

I have no radio traffic reports or anything like that....am I missing something? I'm thinking I would hear my Radio dude would relay SOS messages or stuff like that...have not heard anything yet.

When I radio a status report to BDU...does it auto reply as soon as I click the button? I remember getting an hour or two delay from hearing back from them in other sims. Maybe i'm just missing something from the whole radio room.

Found the clock or stopwatch or chrometer (sp). it does the job...but takes way too much of the screen for simple stuff like transiting.

lastly ....no periscope raise lower sound when out side of the veiw in the control room.

I can see where they were going with this sim....as far as the FPS stuff...but its incomplete...and too gamey to really add alot of immersion. It takes about 10 mins to get bored with the crew...and there doesnt seem to be any leadership issues you need to take care of as a CO. Maybe #2 does a great job! haha......other stuff really could have used the time in my humble opinion. All honesty...its seems about a couple months early for release with no honest to goodness testing or nit picky historical oversight. Obviously the Moders took over...but they really shouldnt have to fix stupid stuff... I would say right now the biggest disappointment is the lack of TDC from a basic uboat standpoint.

Thats it for now....maybe some more if I find more.

[finchOU]

After a busy week of not playing...my new computer arrived. Installed stock again on the new system to look at the stock graphics once they are maxed out. Pretty cool looking. Now on to the MODS!! :up:

[Harmsway!]

Outstanding. Now tell us what you think of the mods.

[finchOU]

Will do....trying to figure out JSGME again after about 4 years. Always a little nervous about MODing till it works...I guess thats have the fun tho!

[finchOU]

Yeah ..I'm kind of blown away by some of these MODS. switched to Real Environment and Real Navigation last night ...and its pretty amazing...really makes a different game out of it. :o.....love the idea of having to actually pay attention to navigating while out at sea. Couple of questions tho......

Why no "Range at current Speed" function with RN? I think this is a bit critical for longer patrols (aka Drumbeat) to know when to set a course for home. Is there another way to calculate your fuel on aboard to then determine the best speed and what that will give you for range? The whole % full bar kind of sucks in my opinion.

I accidently hit the space bar while tracking a convoy....it locked onto a ship with a little yellow triangle:down: and my deck gun crew manned the gun...thank god i was out of range or I'd have unzipped my fly. Anyway to turn off this functionality?

Noticed that weather says "clear" with Real Enironment...even tho there is a scattered to broken marine layer.....and was still able to take celestial fix? Also when I try to manually add a N mark to the map....it wont let me. It highlights like it is selected ...but when I drag over the map...its the normal cursor and nothing happens when I click where I want to click. So basically I cant plot fixes from land if I wanted to....

How do you reconfigure your time compression settings?....happend apon a convoy....and almost ran over it after TCing to in with in visual range. I need to tweek those values.

Using TDW New UI's ...some of the buttons from the old UI are non functional....and some are (patrol report). Is there a list of these. Oh btw...where can I SEE what was sent in a Patrol, Contact, Convoy report....besides the "report sent"?

ah...lastly for now....Gramophone and Radio....usually, with othe games...there are a ton of add on MODs (well play lists) to add to your gramophone folder.....where are these MODS for SH5? I saw one...but it wasnt to my liking. Figured there would be a list of a couple of hundred tracks for this somewhere. And what about the radio? only heard one freq work...22 or something like that....can you pick up different music...say if I'm off of England...then say Germany? How does that work.

Love the teleport button...but is there a teleport MOD makes the Captain Walk to the bridge hands free?

Sorry about the long multiquestion post....all hitting me at once with these MODS. Thanks again!

[finchOU]

Bumped!! Anyone gots some simple anwsers to some of these?? :yeah:

Figured out the Gramophone...aka just like SH3. What about the radio files...anyway to make it location specific...like you only get english radio stations off the coast of england?..that would be cool.

Have an AI question.....when stalking a ship ...I'll get the enemy sub spotted message...which corrolates to my approximate position....so I'm assuming I got too close and the vessel "reported' my location....but the ship does not start evassive maneuvering till i'm much closer to what i'd assume would be a range they would actually pick me up (if not on alert).

Got my first ship to give an SOS signal...which was really cool IMHO.

Think I'll have to tweak the depth values for NO hyrdo on Surface mod..as my hydrophone only works below 15 meters (aka doesent work at periscope depth).

Dont know if this has been implemented...but is there patchy fog...or fog banks? that would be sweet!

[RickC Sniper]

How do you reconfigure your time compression settings?....happend apon a convoy....and almost ran over it after TCing to in with in visual range. I need to tweek those values.



My Documents\SH5\data\cfg\main.cfg

[finchOU]

Thanks...will mod it once back in port. x8 for friendly, emeny spotted.

[THE_MASK]

Range at current speed is speech fixes ans additions maybe .

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1836877&postcount=2