When Things Go Wrong (and a greeting!) *long post*

[Fosson]

Hey everyone! First time posting, but I've been a lurker of the forums here and there. I'm semi new to Silent Hunter. I played the demo of the original back in 96 and loved it, even though I was 13 and spent most of my time trying to see how deep I could go and escape from depth charges (as the demo set you right in the middle of a Japanese fleet, and I had no idea what I was doing.)

I ran across this site a little over a year ago when I gave Silent Hunter 4 a shot. I was loving the game, but as a dedicated PC gamer I always tend to go searching for mods to make the game a better experience. Eventually I gave SH5 a shot, as I read horrid reviews and knew what Ubi was (in)capable of. But, it was the people on this forum that convinced me to buy it, due to the dedication of making it into something playable. (some stand outs, and a thank you to: TDW, Trevally, Sobers, Stoianm, Pedrobas...you guys plus others have done a great job either modding, compiling, or spending time making tutorials to help people like me really enjoy this game.)

I honestly took a break when Open Horizons was being made. The things being added sounded too good to be without (icebergs!), and at the time TDW I believe was just discovering a fix to the hydrophone :woot:, which is a must. I just now stumbled back into the game and have progressed ever further...into the first actual patrol.

I know my post is titled "when things go wrong," and I want to ask about experiences you all have had when your tin can gets hit.

It would seem that my biggest enemy so far in SH4 and 5 has been aircraft. I cannot seem to hit them, and they love hitting me. After racking up 70k tons by sneaking into an unprotected harbor and escaping unscathed (it is 1939 of course), about 20 miles out I was assaulted by a single plane.

We survived the strafe run as it had to head back to base but the hull integrity was down to 21%, and I didn't want to end the patrol since I was tasked to hit the western side of Britain. So, we pulled in to port to refit, and I thought I would take a nice trek north to Iceland, maybe catch a whale or iceberg, or lone merchant (which I did!). A few hundred miles east of Iceland, the crew snapped me to attention in whispered tones. It was about 2am, rough seas, and no moon. I knew there was a warship somewhere nearby, so to be safe I decided to descend into the depths about 100m.
On my way to the hydrophone, everything went to hell. I misjudged our new crush depth due to my beat up hull, and after blood curdling screams, water spraying, gaskets popping, and another groan...the lights went out. I could hear myself splashing through the command room for 2 seconds before one last scream as we imploded somewhere in the north Atlantic.

That's what prompted me to finally post on here. I've played a little bit of SH4 and 5 now, and have died often. Normally its something that happens during time compression, but I was always disappointed how if we accidentally rammed a boat in the harbor (captain was taking a drink!) it would cut to an external view of the sub sinking and game over.

This was the first time since the original Silent Hunter where I had enough time to at least try to react to a crash, and man, what a powerful moment.

Anyone have any stories like that? One of my biggest gripes was how I felt like the game ended before we were given a chance to fight for our lives...but what just happened...we were definitely gone.

I wonder how it would be to be stranded in the depths, water leaking, lights out, and god knows what above us, if I could pull my digital crew out of that jam.

And thanks to many people on this forum, I actually can do that, and not just experience a CTD for my troubles!:yeah:

Anyway, I know this is quite long, but I wanted to say hello, share the experience of a newbie, and give my thanks to the community.

-Fosson
Ohio, USA

[don1reed]

Welcome to many days and nights of tension and sweaty palms...and that's just the forum lol. Welcome aboard.

[misha1967]

Welcome to the Kriegsmarine, Fosson :salute:

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!!! :O:

Long, incredibly tedious reply follows:

You sound like me, although my "baby" was SH3 (and still is, if ever I get the time to start her back up again now that I'm busy with SH5). But what really drew me when the first announcements came out about SH5's development was the "live crew" feature and the unrestricted movement in the sub. I'm really, really big on immersion and the role playing bit of being able to walk around talking to the crew, seeing them at work, looking at real models of real equipment, perfect layout etc. on top of it being the North Atlantic just had me jittery with anticipation. And then the first screenies came out and I was floored as I never thought that SH3 would be surpassed.

But, alas, Ubi did what they had done to every previous iteration of SH. The devs, those wonderful guys, ever taking up the next version a couple of dozen notches (unlike several other BIIIIIIG dev teams out there who are perfectly content to just slap a new coat of paint on their old work and call it "massively new and improved"), worked like crazy to make it the best ever and Ubi pulled the brakes and said "we don't care if it's halfway done, just slap it in a box and push it out the door. We have "Assassin's Creed 75, The Bangkok Days" to get ready for."

Sidebar note: I actually love Assassin's Creed, and I am not what you'd call an FPS fan, but that one "gets me." It's just that I'd like to see them actually finish the job for a change or sell off the franchise to somebody who will. Heck, I'm sure they could enlist quite a few of of the incredibly talented modders of this forum to help out for a very reasonable fee. They're doing it for free right now, after all.

Anyway.

So the launch was a bummer and it took a while before it sucked me in, but boy am I sucked in now, thanks to the aforementioned super modding crew of SubSim! :salute:

As to survival, take it from somebody who's been playing SH for a long time and have found that one aspect in which they all shine is how real life documented techniques (http://hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm) (read it, it's good!) actually work: I can't say this often enough: Your U-Boat is not a warship, it's barely fit to be designated a surface craft. If you see a threat, dive. If you think you see a threat, dive. If there are no apparent threats around, think about diving anyway, just in case.

Your Flak pea shooter is nothing but a giant trap designed to lure you into the belief that you can actually fight it out with aircraft. Don't even think about giving in to it. You'd be better off unscrewing the bolts and throwing it overboard to keep the temptation away. An airplane is a nimble, fast target. You're a big, lumbering, slow target that maneuvers like a pregnant cow. In the best case scenario, the enemy pilot is drunk and low on ammo but still manages to kill off half your deck crew before he has to go home for another bottle of scotch.

Your only, only proper response to spotting an aircraft is "FLANK SPEED AHEAD" and "ALARM, CRASH DIVE!"

Oh, and "SOMEBODY HOG TIE BERNARD AND STOW HIM IN THE HEAD BEFORE HE WANDERS BY THE CONTROLS!!!"

Same with surface ships of the armed variety. Your deck gun is meant only for unarmed, unescorted merchants (and passing sail boats if you're bored, but the tonnage sucks :O: ). Don't even think about duking it out with a warship. By the time you've zeroed in on them and started scraping off their expensive paint job, you're an 800 ton heap of scrap metal headed for the bottom.

Short version: The surface will get you a mention on the UFA Wochenschau, but it will be at the end under the heading "Fallen for the Fatherland."

Your U-Boat is a finely tuned, highly efficient offensive weapon that relies entirely upon stealth and surprise. Without at least one of the two, it's a very expensive coffin.

As to evasive techniques, if fairly certain that they haven't spotted you (as in they're not doing 26 knots in a beeline for your current position), you're generally better off just going to a safe depth and shutting off everything, you don't have to hug your crush depth. They won't be looking for something they have no suspicion is there, so unless you're directly in their path you'll probably be fine as long as their passive detection systems don't pick up any strange noises. And don't pay attention to the game's CO2 meter. It's broken. The "percentage" you get is "percent of lethal", not "percent of atmosphere." You can stay down long after the crew starts babbling that the CO2 has passed 10%, you can actually stay down until it creeps into the 90s. It's been tested. Just ignore the warnings. So don't ever hesitate to sit down below with a good bag lunch watching the meter creep up as long as you're not in the 90s.

Finally, when you have stealth and surprise on your side, attack and attack anything that moves. But don't hang around for the pyrotechnics if it's an escorted target, no matter how impressive they are, and they are. If you must have that screenshot, and I know the feeling, trust me I do, then you can always "cheat" and use the external camera. But you don't want to waste a single precious second of your limited "getting the heck out of Dodge" time on admiring the fireworks. Pick your targets, empty your tubes and dive. Then, but this is only my personal preference that seems to work well, move as fast as you can in a direction roughly perpendicular to the bearing of the escorts.

They won't start paying attention to you (unless you're directly in their passive listening zone ahead, so don't be) until things start to go "boom" in the night, and when they DO, they tend to head straight for the likely starting point of the eels that just hurt their chickens, at which point you should be deep and very, very silent. After that, go with your instincts.

OK, I'm going to stop now before the last hardy soul reading this falls asleep :O:

Again: Welcome aboard!

[ADMIRALTIA]

Welcome to SUBSIM Her Kaleun :salute::salute::Kaleun_Party:

Just like misha said just as soon as you see a threat (or if you think you see a threat ) dive.

Again just like misha said never use the flak gun, Unless you have the Type VIIC/41 U-boat which has a large AA suite ( for a submarine ), but never be overconfident the AA can only protect against too many.

Again Just like misha said never engage warships on the surface your deck gun is powerful against merchants and light patrol craft but is almost completely useless against warships (almost because the deck gun is powerful enough to penetrate the armor of a destroyer). Also be careful most merchants are unarmed but there are a few that are armed with deck guns and AA.

Tips (if submerged)

1. If you are being trailed by destroyers head deep around 90 to 150 meters would do. (If all else fails head down to 200 meters)

2. Run at Dead slow speed and silent running. A tactic that I use and most of the time work is hitting flank speed wait until max speed is achieved and then hit all stop this will save you some battery power.

3. Before surfacing always repeat always make a 360 degree sweep with the observation scope. If necessary use the hydrophone.

Again welcome to SUBSIM:salute::salute::salute::Kaleun_Party:

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

And just so you know - that was not a long post, at least not for Subsim.

[Fosson]

Thanks for the welcome! Misha, I completely agree. Years ago I remember being fond of Ubi, though recently I can't remember why. I do enjoy Assassin's Creed for what it is, and I think it is effortless for them to make the titles. In some ways though, I now dislike them more than EA and Activision. I mean, if you're going to commit to making a game, at least allow it to run. I'm still waiting for IL-2: Cliffs of Dover to be playable! (also, "Oh, Storm of War Battle for Britain won't catch the eye. It needs to have the acronym 'COD' so people think Call of Duty.)

It's a shame, because with games like IL-2 and Silent Hunter, there are multiple realism levels that range from sim, to arcade. Both CloD and SH5 are flashy enough to "wow" someone into the game, while containing enough mechanics to draw someone in.
For me, damage modeling and effects are a huge immersion factor. I hadn't played sims for years until my cousin got my hooked on IL-2 Sturmovik 1946. I saw him play last year and went and bought a HOTAS for myself.

It isn't just about winning, or the flashy graphics...but seeing the hull of your tin can spraying water; or being 10000ft in the air and looking at your wing to see the paint riddled with holes, and the one cannon shell that tore apart the insides. Knowing that your sub is being held together with super glue, but you have to make the dive anyway, cringing at the hull groaning under pressure. To hear the wing on your plane begin to shudder, screws popping, and suddenly your wing rips away. (or seeing oil cover your cockpit and knowing that your aileron and elevator is broken, your throttle working 10%, and fuel is draining fast.)

Those are the kind of things that draw me in. And from what I see on these forums, I'm definitely not alone.

I started following the advice you guys have given me, and well, it saved me. I had a long journey back to base on less than half a tank, and I ran across a couple of escorts. 19% of my hull was intact, and managing the escorts, then 3 days of evading planes, and finally making it to a friendly port with 5% fuel...I made the tough decision to throw in the towel on my Total Germany patrol. 80k tons sunk, but so many missions left, I just couldn't make it filled with holes.

Now I'm in base, and I'm going to figure out how to add the "mtns" mod while using Pedrobas' MMM. I need MORE immersion! :yeah:

Sometime after, I need to learn the TDC, and eventually install TDW's real navigation. I know that is the way to play, and I want to...just need the time to learn. It really isn't ever as satisfying to lock on and fire.

Anyway, thanks again for the warm welcome everyone!