View Full Version : Are schools going too far?
First I hear that a school here in the states will no longer allow people to hug each other on school property! And now this!?!
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/03/22/school-rejects-boys-porn-star-prom-date/
They are taking all the fun out of going to school!
Platapus
03-23-12, 12:50 PM
As long as the rule that no non-school guests are allowed, I have no problem with it. But I wonder if that really is the rule?
There is no "requirement" that your boyfriend or girlfriend attend the same school as you.
Yes, every other month I hear of some ridiculous new rule enforced by a school (in the Uk). Political correctness gone mad.:-?
Onkel Neal
03-23-12, 01:53 PM
I hope you're kidding. Porn stars do not belong at school functions.
I hope you're kidding. Porn stars do not belong at school functions.
How so? It's not like they are going to spontaneously transform into a hardcore porn scene or something. :O:
Osmium Steele
03-23-12, 02:46 PM
His mother must be so proud. :shifty:
Takeda Shingen
03-23-12, 03:16 PM
I completely agree with the ban on hugging and the ban on the porn star. Parents have complained for far too long about touching and what is appropriate. Fine, now there is no touching; not by students, teachers, administrators, janitors--nobody touches anybody else in any manner. Problem solved. I wish that they had that policy back when I was teaching in K-12 education. :up:
As for the porn star, that is a no brainer. The school does not want to project that sort of image. Since the event is school-sponsored, the school gets the final word. Note that the administation said that they would need approval for a non-Tartan student. That is to weed out people that try to run the end-around on common sense via technicality. Nicely worded and I approve.
My point in bringing this article up was mainly I couldn't believe he would do that,lol A porn star was going to bring a quick reaction from the administration or the school board! No way they would allow it.
Are schools going too far?
In this case certainly not.
.
u crank
03-23-12, 04:25 PM
If your kid can bring a porn star to prom then my kid can bring a white supremacist. Sets a precedent that people could take advantage of.
--nobody touches anybody else in any manner. Problem solved......
.
Very sad.
Takeda Shingen
03-23-12, 04:35 PM
Maybe, but as a guy that worked in the system it sounds ideal to me. This puts an end to the 'Johnny keeps touching me in line' and 'Mr. So-And-So touched me trouble. Of course, I have just come home from the work week and could just be cranky. Ask me tomorrow and you may get a different answer. Mine change all the time.
the_tyrant
03-23-12, 05:08 PM
On the bright side, I can still bring a porn star to prom next year!
Question is, how can I find one:hmmm:
Agree on the porn star, lament the necessity of a ban on hugging. It's a sad testament to our over litigious society that human contact must be prohibited lest someone gets their panties in a twist.
I've heard of all crazy things in schools; private school uniforms in public schools, kids in Britain being diagnosed with stress etc. It's just getting out of hand with-the-over the top approach to schools. With the uniforms, kids are getting pre-suspensions (playground exclusion, detentions etc.) for not wearing 'proper' school socks. :nope:
Takeda Shingen
03-23-12, 06:03 PM
I've heard of all crazy things in schools; private school uniforms in public schools, kids in Britain being diagnosed with stress etc. It's just getting out of hand with-the-over the top approach to schools. With the uniforms, kids are getting pre-suspensions (playground exclusion, detentions etc.) for not wearing 'proper' school socks. :nope:
Believe it or not, uniforms make a tremendous difference in student behavior. When I taught in a parochial school there was always a marked change in the students every time we had a dress down day. Most of the public school teachers that I know, including many of the ones I kept in touch with would love to have a uniform policy established.
The uniform thing can be viewed (and handled) within two different contexts.
Traditional "old-school" discipline (mostly for its own sake) OR
As a lesson on equality and citizenship. Must go with an environment that promotes personality "growth". (We are "equal" but not "identical").
.
Stealhead
03-23-12, 06:19 PM
My sister can counter your claim she works for a parish(Louisiana version of county) school board as a teacher this school system has a uniform policy but only if the administrator deems them to be required.She has taught at schools requiring uniforms and those not she and fellow teachers(this was at a discussion involving a few teachers working for this same school system) agreed that the behavior was about the same at all schools uniform or no.
They all agreed that the best behaved school was the one that had no uniform requirement but had very strict rules on when the kids could talk they where not allowed to talk even during lunch which they all felt was overly strict.
If a teacher has never worked at a school that requires uniforms it stands to reason that they might assume that uniforms alone promote better behavior that does not mean that it true.I would argue that the kids at the dress down day school acted up a bit more do simply to the change of pace dress down feels more relaxed as a result one will feel more apt to act up a bit.If the cat is way the mice shall play make one rule more lax and down they all go.
Takeda Shingen
03-23-12, 06:43 PM
My sister can counter your claim she works for a parish(Louisiana version of county) school board as a teacher this school system has a uniform policy but only if the administrator deems them to be required.She has taught at schools requiring uniforms and those not she and fellow teachers(this was at a discussion involving a few teachers working for this same school system) agreed that the behavior was about the same at all schools uniform or no.
They all agreed that the best behaved school was the one that had no uniform requirement but had very strict rules on when the kids could talk they where not allowed to talk even during lunch which they all felt was overly strict.
If a teacher has never worked at a school that requires uniforms it stands to reason that they might assume that uniforms alone promote better behavior that does not mean that it true.I would argue that the kids at the dress down day school acted up a bit more do simply to the change of pace dress down feels more relaxed as a result one will feel more apt to act up a bit.If the cat is way the mice shall play make one rule more lax and down they all go.
Perhaps. We're both citing anecdotal evidence so it is probable that the truth is somewhere in between. Where I know that you are absolutely right is in that the tone set by the school in terms of it's discipline policy is more important than any uniform policy. For that to work you need strong-willed teachers, but even moreso strong-willed administrators. Parents are typically in favor of tough discipline policies until their kid is in violation of the rules. A strong administrator will not cave to the parental complaints, regardless of how loud they get.
Skybird
03-23-12, 06:57 PM
I hope you're kidding. Porn stars do not belong at school functions.
^This.
The hugging prohibition however leads far too far.
Skybird
03-23-12, 07:03 PM
Believe it or not, uniforms make a tremendous difference in student behavior. When I taught in a parochial school there was always a marked change in the students every time we had a dress down day. Most of the public school teachers that I know, including many of the ones I kept in touch with would love to have a uniform policy established.
Me too. First for the reason you just mentioned, second because pupils attentions get too much destracted on relatively unimportant things like having the latest of the latest gadgets and wearing the "in" fashion labels in order to be "cool".
Last time I dared to mention that over here to a group of students long time ago, who where studying to become school teachers, I got - in seriousness - called an authoritarian Prussian, and a Nazi :88) .
Who said Germans have no sense of humour? :doh:
The uniform thing can be viewed (and handled) within two different contexts.
Traditional "old-school" discipline (mostly for its own sake) OR
As a lesson on equality and citizenship. Must go with an environment that promotes personality "growth". (We are "equal" but not "identical").
.
I understand those, but even in these, there can be variations in the uniforms, even if it's just different brands, and about 2cm difference in the length of shorts etc. That's the way I've been taught, the same but different in a way
I'll have to add my endorsement to mandatory uniforms. Even in adult education they are handy for instilling professionalism and good work habits.
We have a full length mirror in the lobby that has a sign next to it that says:
"Do you see the professional you are training to become?"
mookiemookie
03-23-12, 08:18 PM
As the product of a public elementary school system where uniforms weren't required and then a private high school where they were, I absolutely 100% support mandatory school uniforms. They instill a professional and businesslike atmosphere.
I don't buy this "freedom of expression" crap that the anti-uniformers argue. Dude, you're 12. What groundbreaking and vital personal expression does a 12 year old have to make? Kids are in school to learn, not make a fashion statement of their individuality. Besides, if they can't express themselves through their words and deeds and need clothes to do it, then they're turning out to be a shallow individual.
Stealhead
03-23-12, 08:52 PM
I'll have to add my endorsement to mandatory uniforms. Even in adult education they are handy for instilling professionalism and good work habits.
We have a full length mirror in the lobby that has a sign next to it that says:
"Do you see the professional you are training to become?"
I agree with you here but the wear of uniforms must also be implemented as part of an entire program uniforms alone I feel do not instill discipline.
Many people seem to forget that there a some very non professional organisations that wear a manner of uniform street gangs I see a uniform as way of showing that you belong to a group be it a school,an agency,the military,an institution(prison) not necessarily a sign of professionalism.
I think that grade schools should have something similar to a roll call in the military each morning ( done in the military at the start of each shift) one of the purpose of a roll call is to establish
discipline and command it establishes order and respect it is also a time to announce important information.In some nations like Japan they do this at school they also sing a song as a group before beginning class this is all done in one gathering not over an PA system.
Schooling should prepare a student with the fundamentals to allow them to be a productive member of society I think most American schools fail at this goal.
It seems we've concentrated on being individuals so much we forgot it's a team that usually gets the job done best.
Stealhead
03-24-12, 12:39 AM
I notice alot of people have bumper stickers or T-shirts that have the American flag on them and it says "United we stand" I think that is a poorly designed logo because they leave out the most important part "Divided we fall".
In modern times there are too many distractions from what is important more people got upset about Netflix(I could care less) raising its fees than anything else last year.
If you ask me the idea of banning any form of human contact and getting rid of any sport where you can loose is a very bad idea competition is a good thing
it makes people want to perform better.If a kid is lousy at playing a game then they will know that they tried and they can either put more effort into it or do something
else like play an instrument but you still have to put forth effort to be any good at playing the instrument and being on the debate team or what ever.
I notice alot of people have bumper stickers or T-shirts that have the American flag on them and it says "United we stand" I think that is a poorly designed logo because they leave out the most important part "Divided we fall".
In modern times there are too many distractions from what is important more people got upset about Netflix(I could care less) raising its fees than anything else last year.
If you ask me the idea of banning any form of human contact and getting rid of any sport where you can loose is a very bad idea competition is a good thing
it makes people want to perform better.If a kid is lousy at playing a game then they will know that they tried and they can either put more effort into it or do something
else like play an instrument but you still have to put forth effort to be any good at playing the instrument and being on the debate team or what ever.
I completely agree with you, the idea that so many people get upset about minor things like that is appalling, competition is great. I play soccer (not like the pros though) and I'm probably the most competitive; because I'm trying. I'm nowhere near brilliant at sport, but I am definitely better at music: I can play trumpet, keyboard, guitar, bass and I am sort of learning sax.
Takeda Shingen
03-24-12, 06:59 AM
Well now we're getting into a completely different problem. In today's environment of 'everyone gets a trophy', students are constantly told that they are all smart, important and that everything they do is wonderful. What we have fostered now is a generation of students that are incredibly self-assured and yet much less capable.
Rockstar
03-24-12, 08:38 AM
Schools will pride themselves on voting in homosexual prom queens and kings. But stop a young man from bringing in a date who just happenes to be a porn star to a prom?
One group likes same sex partners and thats promoted and tolerated. The other (the porn star) well, just likes it and probably lots of it and she's not allowed? Come on man where's the tolerance in todays society I'd rather see that porn star than a drag queen any day.
Platapus
03-24-12, 09:24 AM
Every few years the question of school uniforms comes up in North Virginia. I remember one year we were discussing it with The Frau's daughter who was, then, just entering highschool.
Her daughter was against the idea of school uniforms as it stifles individuality.
I informed her that she already wears a school uniform, which she vehemently denied.
I pointed out that she wears exactly what her peer group wears, down to the colour and brand (and sometimes cleanliness) When her peer group changes style, she immediately changes her style to match her peer group. If her peer group does not wear something, neither will she. Where, exactly is the individuality?
:D
Perhaps it is due to my military life, but I still wear a "uniform" when I go do work. While it is way too hot to wear a suit where I work, I do wear dress slacks, shirt and tie. It is a form of uniform. It makes me feel more professional and I hope it makes me look more professional. Since most of my work is based on a trustworthy relationship with my client, I feel that this "uniform" is appropriate.
Also my mommy told me to always dress for your next job. :up:
Schools will pride themselves on voting in homosexual prom queens and kings. But stop a young man from bringing in a date who just happenes to be a porn star to a prom?
Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. I'm quite sure that the school would have prevented the young man from bringing a gay porn star as well.
mookiemookie
03-24-12, 10:00 AM
Also my mommy told me to always dress for your next job. :up:
That's why I dress as either Batman or a pirate every day. Fingers crossed!
Onkel Neal
03-24-12, 10:26 AM
Pros and cons for school uniforms, as a parent of three daughters, I am solidly in favor on nice slacks and polos for all students. To heck with individuality, are we really going to bat for that in this age? There's already plenty of it. :O: Uniform dress definitely solves a lot of problems with students--don't forget, they are there to learn and in this country, we need all the help we can get with teaching students.
kiwi_2005
03-24-12, 12:44 PM
We have had school uniforms since the dawn of time, one thing as a parent back in the day is you buy 2 sets of uniform and that was that for the whole year when it came to school clothes for the kids. :haha: They won't worry about how they look with uniforms bcos they all dress the same they all look like dorks so there is no fashion worries no peer pressure. And yes the boys uniform was a bit dorky, grey shorts, grey socks which had to be pulled up to the knees if socks were found down to their ankles it was a reported detention. Black shoes, grey shirt, grey jersey & a yellow green jacket for winter. Only senior students were allowed to wear long trousers during winter the juniors had to brave the cold & to bad if you lived in the south island of NZ you then had to brave the snow - girls were allowed to wear black stockings in winter. No jewelry, no nose piercing no dyed hair.
edit
NZ is a bit different to American education we have primary and secondary schooling.
Primary schooling ages 5 to 12 = no uniform unless its a private christian school then its uniform.
Secondary (college) ages 13 to 18 = uniform
18 onwards polytech or university = no uniform
Stealhead
03-24-12, 02:11 PM
We live in a confused society it seems people are supposed to be successful but to be successful in most jobs you have to out perform the other person or group that is doing the same thing that you are doing.At the same time people are focused to heavily on individuality what ever that means none really is an individual everyone conforms to a given groups rules you have no choice humans naturally distrust any person that does not conform to the rules of a given group.
Many people are focused so heavily on not making anyone feel bad about something or offending someone that they go overboard.If we keep going down the road we are on(or that many are on) we are headed for trouble.
Every person is an individual but every person also conforms to some given groups rules for fear that they be outcast of the group they wish to be accepted by which to me makes the argument that kids should express individuality by wearing clothes is a stupid argument they will still separate into clicks no matter what.So is the idea of no contact between kids at all during school so what if some other kid gets upset because he sees Billy and Joe hive five each other maybe he should try and make some friends instead of getting hurt by the site of two friends interacting.If the people you want to be friends with do not accept you because of the clothes you wear then they are unless anyway and even when wearing uniforms the kids will still group themselves they know whose parents have money and whose do not and all the other factors that form clicks.
One thing that I loved about high school(mine was a no uniform school) was my interaction with class mates.I did not follow the normal rules I was friends with people because I liked something about them not what what clothes they wore or how much money they had or what classes they where in.It was funny because some peers did not like me simply for this reason and some teachers did not either for the same reason.
It was the same in the military as well some people did not like me for that reason either more than likely because they knew that I knew that they where superficial.
Rockstar
03-24-12, 04:52 PM
Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. I'm quite sure that the school would have prevented the young man from bringing a gay porn star as well.
The way i see it the common denominator is sex whether it is ones preference or job. And quiet frankly who said she was working? And not that I agree with either one because I don't. But it does appear to be somewhat discriminating. One group whose desire it is to have homosexual intercourse is ok. But the women who might desire voyeurism and whose job it is to engage in sex is not.
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