View Full Version : "The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process."
Onkel Neal
03-13-12, 02:23 AM
It's about this: (http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/5th-amendment.html)
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
From a socialist newspaper,
"To which distant planet suddenly vanished the deep sense of lawfulness and morality liberals displayed during the Bush administration’s tenure?"
http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/mugged-reality/2012/mar/12/eric-holder-defends-assassination-us-citizens/
and the right
George W. Bush or Dick Cheney, however, should not hold their breath for an apology from the administration and party that demonized these same security policies on the campaign trail. Nowhere does Mr. Holder reject the antiwar left's conjured claims of constitutional violations and distortions of facts about Guantanamo Bay or the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Nor does he credit the Bush administration for laying the foundations for the amazing quick-strike capability that has provided Mr. Obama with his only victories in the war on terror.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204603004577271553609530924.html?m od=googlenews_wsj
Has this been discussed here? Isn't it odd that the media have not been all over Obama over this? Jon Stewart agrees with me.
TLAM Strike
03-13-12, 08:08 AM
They picked the wrong amendment. Would have made more sense if they said it violated the 6th amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) .
Osmium Steele
03-13-12, 08:16 AM
Isn't it odd that the media have not been all over Obama over this?
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ42S4Btviy9tFuQYEQb7o_Bj2HKed3P-RvWxHqXSznic1xZVZg
Certain elements in american society have been wondering about the lack of media scrutiny of Mr. Obama since he ran against Alan Keyes for Carol Moseley-Brauns senate seat.
The man was never vetted by the media in 2007, why would they start now?
mookiemookie
03-13-12, 08:33 AM
"To which distant planet suddenly vanished the deep sense of lawfulness and morality liberals displayed during the Bush administration***8217;s tenure?"
Oh if this were Alberto Gonzales, the left would be all over it.
Oh, and for what it's worth, I showed my deep sense of lawfulness and morality on this very issue right here. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?t=188297)
So Holder basically says "due process" as we've always understood it is thrown out the window, and all the due process you get is "trust us, we know what we're doing." That's not very far off from the "it's not illegal if the president does it" defense. That's a really scary power to think about the president having because just think of a President Palin having that power. Isn't a head of state ordering someone to death without trial one of the things we kind of sorta put in that quaint old document the Declaration of Independence?
...just think of a President Palin having that power.
President Obama has turned out to be just as bad a President as she would have been. The only thing scarier would be the specter of "President Biden". :o
Obama and palin are are both on the same team, that of the Banking cartel and the military industrial complex.
IMO Ron Paul is perhaps the last and only hope you guys have left to keep America free and perhaps roll back the last decade of insane BS legistlation passed in the name of 'national security'.
Here a scary little fact, if i lived in the US,the above text would likely class me as a potentional 'domestic terrorist' and they could lock me up and throw away the key. no attourney and no trial. Thats how far down the road of tyranny the U.S has gone.
Im deeply saddens me to say this, but despite me living in the nation that is widley considered Americas closest ally, I can safely say that I am terrified of America right now. America scares more than 10 Irans with 100 nukes.
What has happened to the US over the last decade is so disturbing, I dont even have time to fret about my own government anymore and thats really saying something. :cry:
Obama and palin are are both on the same team, that of the Banking cartel and the military industrial complex.
Exactly what part of either the banking cartel or military industrial complex does Palin or Obama belong to?
Skybird
03-13-12, 10:37 AM
Exactly what part of either the banking cartel or military industrial complex does Palin or Obama belong to?
The one ol' Ike was warnign about, seems to be a fair bet.
It'S the one that is all around you and that forms the very basic structure of the economical system that keeps your country alive. I mean the reral economic system that is a reality right now- not the academic ideas and theories about how the economy was meant to be.
In the end, Obama is faces by the same issues and problems and challenges like any other in his place would have faced. I never expected miracles from him, like many did. While he may cost the Americna tax payer much money, like Bush did also, and others before, at least he has so far not launched a war based on lies and betrayal of the public, a war that was not needed but was desired by ideology and economic lobbyists in Bush's background.
Whether it already deserve a peace Nobel prize for not launching a not needed war, remains debatable, though. :D
The one ol' Ike was warnign about, seems to be a fair bet.
Neither one have any sort of background in either so folks can claim anything they want but they're no more part of them than I am. Palin in particular. At least Obama is in the catbirds seat but how much influence they'll have once he wins final reelection is debatable. However I think it's especially silly to claim that a former Alaska governor and vice presidential candidate has any kind of influence with the MIC. She has shrinking popularity with one subset of Americans. She couldn't help the banks or the MIC if her life depended on it.
It'S the one that is all around you and that forms the very basic structure of the economical system that keeps your country alive. I mean the reral economic system that is a reality right now- not the academic ideas and theories about how the economy was meant to be.
I could claim the German government is run by a secret monarchy, the Kaiser pulling puppet strings from the shadows, but that does not make it true, academically or otherwise.
Whether it already deserve a peace Nobel prize for not launching a not needed war, remains debatable, though. :D
Debatable indeed. Obamas Nobel prize is just another example of Europeans trying to tell us what to do and how to live our lives. As I have said repeatedly if we went by European prognostications we'd have collapsed as a nation 200 years ago so anyone that follows their advice is asking to fail.
Skybird
03-13-12, 12:15 PM
If you think that the "system" (the lobbies of it) have stopped to press and bribe Democrat or Republican politicians and that these have stopped to press Obama and Palin, then I cannot help that.
That campaigns still waste hundreds of millions, and that the big bribery in congress and senate and the lose ties between politicians and business represenatives still are present, and that the defence contractors in special spread the various parts of their production and research over as many states as possible so that reduction of defence budgets will cost as many senators the worker's votes by the then unemployed workers, should make you feel some doubt over your assumption on how clean your system is.
Obama gets feedback by his party'S basis, and by senators and congressmen who want to get relected. They press him. Same for Palin. I also remember to have read about both in past years that both of them maintain close ties with several big players in the business world.
They do not own the system. The system owns them. It owns you all. And us.
I also remember to have read about both in past years that both of them maintain close ties with several big players in the business world.
This would be the same German media that you normally get your information from about my country? If so I already doubt it's veracity or underlying motivations. No offense intended to you personally but i have read way too much bull from the foreign media (even more than my domestic media) to take anything they say as something even resembling the truth.
They do not own the system. The system owns them. It owns you all. And us.
You Euros always seem so eager to cast yourselves in the role of victim for one thing or another so i'm not really surprised that you would believe this but such thinking is certainly not as prevalent over here. We still for the most part still believe in our country and God help us (and you) if and when we stop believing.
Personally though I wouldn't claim to know your system, or any other foreign system, better than I know my own so YMMV, but FYI no system "owns" me, certainly not the banking industry and definitely not some fictional cabal of evil arms makers.
just another example of Europeans trying to tell us what to do and how to live our lives.
fo' real?
haha since when did you guys give a flying **** about what any other country said to make such a statement relevant to anything?
It's not a dig at you fella, but you made me laugh with that one :DL
Tbh, as one of those europeans, I'm more concerned by the way my government follows your government around getting involved with costly wars on terror, and slightly one sided extradition laws (ok so you guys don't push a point on that one, but we do have to make more of a case for it than you currently), not forgetting that whole house of cards economic thing - though that's applicable to just about everyone these days. So you'll forgive me for thinking that your case of the obama peace prize falls a little short of the rhetoric of 'telling us what to do and how to live our lives'. :haha:
So you'll forgive me for thinking that your case of the obama peace prize falls a little short of the rhetoric of 'telling us what to do and how to live our lives'. :haha:
Nothing to forgive.
But what else would you call it then? They awarded him the Nobel freaking peace prize based on what they hoped he would do instead of what he had done. If that's not considered an attempt to influence his decisions then I don't know what would be.
Oh, I don't know. He certainly had a lot to live up to, both over here and over there. Think of it as relating more to what obama represents in your history of presidential candidates, being a black man and all of that, and some, perhaps facile need to commend that, with the now rather empty nobel prize (they seem to dish them out like honorary degrees).
In many ways obama seems to have fallen victim to his own success. I don't mean his policy's directly, but his getting to the top in the first place.
That's just a perspective from over here, however.
Nothing to forgive.
But what else would you call it then? They awarded him the Nobel freaking peace prize based on what they hoped he would do instead of what he had done.
QFT
I though Bush Jr was bad, Obama is just more of the same. (At least Bush was funny)
Its not that all or even most US congressmen are bad or corrupted people, that would be an unfair and rather ignorant generisation to make. of course there are some of good guys in both D and R parties, but sadly I struggle to see any shining examples amongst those at the top of either the current or former adminstrations.
As unlikely as it stands I'd love to see Paul as the republican nominee, can you imagine the live election debates? my god, Paul would rip Obama to shreads in ways that Romney or Santorum simply wouldn't be able to do (because they are too similar to him by comparison)
I guess its much easier to win an argument when you dont consistantly flip-flop, lie and spew rhetoric. Sure Obama and Bush both sounded good on their campaign trails too, but Paul has been consistent for 30 years and compared to the former two he comes accross as alot more sincere.
QFT
I though Bush Jr was bad, Obama is just more of the same. (At least Bush was funny)
Its not that all or even most US congressmen are bad or corrupted people, that would be an unfair and rather ignorant generisation to make. of course there are some of good guys in both D and R parties, but sadly I struggle to see any shining examples amongst those at the top of either the current or former adminstrations.
As unlikely as it stands I'd love to see Paul as the republican nominee, can you imagine the live election debates? my god, Paul would rip Obama to shreads in ways that Romney or Santorum simply wouldn't be able to do (because they are too similar to him by comparison)
I guess its much easier to win an argument when you dont consistantly flip-flop, lie and spew rhetoric. Sure Obama and Bush both sounded good on their campaign trails too, but Paul has been consistent for 30 years and compared to the former two he comes accross as alot more sincere.
I share some of Ron Pauls positions on various issues, but I just don't see him as Presidential material. He's like the GoP version of Joe Lieberman. Great as a legislator but not the temperament to be an Executive. Nothing against him personally, just a different kind of person.
Besides I think the President should be somewhat of a flip-flopper. He directly represents the people and therefore should always be championing their will as he understands it, whether he personally supports it or not. That is after all what we hire him for.
@August you have point, but hes pretty much all about sticking to the constitution, its hard to see how any good can become of flip-flopping on that.
@August you have point, but hes pretty much all about sticking to the constitution, its hard to see how any good can become of flip-flopping on that.
Yeah but remember the Constitution is just a set of rules that government must follow. Mere compliance to them does not make a man a good President, leadership skills do.
Certain elements in american society have been wondering about the lack of media scrutiny of Mr. Obama since he ran against Alan Keyes for Carol Moseley-Brauns senate seat.
The man was never vetted by the media in 2007, why would they start now?
Agree 100%. :up:
At this point I would be very surprised if Obama got any significant criticism from the mass media. I expect them to make a superhuman effort to drag his carcass across the re-election finish line.
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