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View Full Version : I thought boot camp was supposed to be difficult

Onkel Neal
03-12-12, 08:22 PM
Seriously?
http://theweek.com/article/index/224769/the-51-year-old-mom-who-graduated-from-army-boot-camp

Last week, Army Sgt. Sandra Coast graduated from Basic Combat Training at Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri, notching some of the highest physical fitness scores in her company. What makes this particularly remarkable: At age 51, Coast is 222 percent older than the average newly minted Army grunt.
nikimcbee
03-12-12, 08:26 PM
God save us all.

Note to China, I'd invade now, just stay clear of Texas, Wyoming, Utah, and Montana.
krashkart
03-12-12, 08:29 PM
God save us all.

Note to China, I'd invade now, just stay clear of Texas, Wyoming, Utah, and Montana.

And certain parts of Washington, Oregon and northern Idaho. I reckon there be plenty of chainsaws in them areas. :o
Stealhead
03-12-12, 08:31 PM
Well the requirements change with age.If you are 17 you have to x push in x minutes as the age goes up it gets easier.I do not know what they would be for a 51 year but they surely are much lower than the requirements for your typical 17~24 year old in basic so it is kind of false she did get a higher score perhaps but she also had to perform at a much lower level than her peers and if she was in good shape already which is possible (I have neighbors that are 60 and they work out alot more than most 20 somethings.) Then the requirement would be pretty easy to meet.In fact if you are in good shape the standard PT scores are easy to beat to be honest that is why Elite force training is so hard it really weeds people out.

It would be impressive if she had to the same as a 19 year old female would.I am sure this was one of those publicity maneuvers any way she was already in the Navy which explains the rank and she is in the reserve they must have given her some special job.
CaptainMattJ.
03-12-12, 08:56 PM
hardcore! :rock:
Schöneboom
03-12-12, 09:04 PM
"Grambo"?! Dammit, I wanted that name!!!
mookiemookie
03-12-12, 09:25 PM
In light of that story, I'm going to go ahead and order Rosetta Stone Mandarin Edition now. :roll:
Sailor Steve
03-12-12, 09:50 PM
It would be impressive if she had to the same as a 19 year old female would.I am sure this was one of those publicity maneuvers any way she was already in the Navy which explains the rank and she is in the reserve they must have given her some special job.
I guess you didn't read the other article.

"I was impressed, because she can do everything the younger soldiers do. She never expected us to feel sorry for her. She even got one of the highest Army physical fitness test scores in the company. She is a prime example that age is just a number. She ran faster than soldiers young enough to be her kids."
-1st Sgt. John Byars

Coast even amazed herself when she came in second place during the test.
"I am still kind of blown away by that," she said. "I even ran faster than all but one female."
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=67259
Gargamel
03-12-12, 10:35 PM
Well to be honest, there a lot of people her age whO could ace the pt exams in basic, even at the youngest reqs. But those people almost never sign up, so you never hear about it. Just look at marathons that have a 70+ group.
Reece
03-12-12, 10:41 PM
She eats spinach!:yep:
Stealhead
03-12-12, 11:12 PM
I guess you didn't read the other article.

"I was impressed, because she can do everything the younger soldiers do. She never expected us to feel sorry for her. She even got one of the highest Army physical fitness test scores in the company. She is a prime example that age is just a number. She ran faster than soldiers young enough to be her kids."
-1st Sgt. John Byars


http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=67259

It did not say what exactly she did PT wise though in the article posted by Neal only that she performed better than her peers which means that she exceeded the standards.

Your article is more clear but you assumed that I did not read the one posted by Neal which I did.:salute:

Assuming the detail in the article that you posted is correct it seems that she did exceed even the younger recruits which that would be pretty good but it does not say clearly what standard she beat.I dont think it means that the Army basic is too easy just that this woman was in better shape than average.I mean look at younger people these days(than my self mid 30s self) a lot of them really do not do a lot of physical activity so Basic is not easy for them PT wise unless they are an athlete.


What I am trying to say is did she exceed the PT standards of a 17-21 year old (the hardest) or did she exceed what ever the lower standard is for her age bracket?Now if she beat the hardest standard I am very impressed but it does not say that she did clearly which implies to me that she scored very well for her age bracket which is still good but not as good as beating the standard for someone half your age.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blfitfem17to21.htm did she beat this one?

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/arfitness/blf42-46.htm

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/arfitness/blm52-56.htm or this one did better in a weighted manner?

I am not trying to down talk I just want to know if she really whipped butt or only sort off whipped butt.
August
03-12-12, 11:26 PM
Darn. I'm male, 52 years old with only 7 years prior service. Missed it by that much... :|\\
Sailor Steve
03-12-12, 11:29 PM
Your article is more clear but you assumed that I did not read the one posted by Neal which I did.:salute:
No, I specifically said "I guess you didn't read the other article." I thought it was obvious that you did read Neal's link. The "other" article was linked right there in the first one, so I read it as a matter of course.

Assuming the detail in the article that you posted is correct it seems that she did exceed even the younger recruits which that would be pretty good.I dont think it means that the Army basic is too easy just that this woman was in better shape than average.I mean look at younger people these days(than my self mid 30s self) a lot of them really do not do a lot of physical activity so Basic is not easy for them PT wise unless they are an athlete.
I completely agree. I'm almost 62 now and I'm in better shape than I was at 51, though that's not saying much. Yes, she seems to be in great shape, as are a lot of people her age and mine. I'm working on it, because I still play music and I'm tired of seeing pictures of myself looking like the Michelin man. I only responded the way I did because of your original suggestion that they gaver her special preference, which they didn't.
TLAM Strike
03-12-12, 11:32 PM
Well John Glenn was 77 when he went back up on STS-95. As far as I know he met all the physical requirements as any other astronaut.

I'm sure passing boot camp at 51 can be done as well.
Stealhead
03-12-12, 11:38 PM
No, I specifically said "I guess you didn't read the other article." I thought it was obvious that you did read Neal's link. The "other" article was linked right there in the first one, so I read it as a matter of course.


I completely agree. I'm almost 62 now and I'm in better shape than I was at 51, though that's not saying much. Yes, she seems to be in great shape, as are a lot of people her age and mine. I'm working on it, because I still play music and I'm tired of seeing pictures of myself looking like the Michelin man. I only responded the way I did because of your original suggestion that they gaver her special preference, which they didn't.



OK where are on the same wave length.:up: I really would like to know if she killed the 17-21 year old standard because that really would be impressive doable even by some older than her I bet Jack Lalanne could have killed the male 17-21 standard the day before he passed away.My father told me about Ranger training he went through during Vietnam some of the guy strying out even there where not putting forth full effort of course those guys got canned either by instructors or by peer evaluation.

I am sure at the same time some of the youngsters did not put in full effort either.I recall when I was in basic there where only a handful of really fit guys and guys actually putting maximum effort into PT and one of the Sergeants pointed out to lazy ones the 33 year old ex-NBA player who was slaying the youngest standard.
Sailor Steve
03-12-12, 11:41 PM
You bet? I don't think theres a wager here, considering Jack Lalanne's accomplishments. I think Chuck Norris is a Jack Lalanne wannabe. The only other person who came close to being that tough at that age was Jack Palance. :rock:
Stealhead
03-12-12, 11:44 PM
When Chuck Norris was born it was only because Jack Lalanne gave him permission to live.
Sailor Steve
03-12-12, 11:52 PM
:rotfl2: :salute:
Onkel Neal
03-13-12, 01:52 AM
I'm sure passing boot camp at 51 can be done as well.

Apparently so.

Still makes me wonder if boot camp is so tough after all. Maybe this woman is a 1% female wonder speciman, but I doubt it.
MothBalls
03-13-12, 02:23 AM
I thought boot camp was supposed to be difficultThen you do it. :salute:

As many have pointed out, the requirements get lower as you get older, add to that, they have different standards for females. Still, it isn't easy and many don't make it.

My personal opinion, there should be one set standard for all, period. It shouldn't be the number of pushups, situps, and how fast you can run. It should be based on combat conditions and your ability to perform basic combat maneuvers.
Onkel Neal
03-13-12, 02:34 AM
Then you do it. :salute:



Why would I want to do that?
Platapus
03-13-12, 05:42 AM
I know plenty of 50 year olds that could kick my butt.

Just because one 50 year old got through basic does not mean that all 50 year olds can. Trying to take one isolated and exceptional case and using that to form an opinion that basic is easy these days is a bit illogical.

I could easily make an equally illogical claim that because I know one 19 year old that could not pass PT that the military's PT is unreasonably tough. That does not make sense either does it?
Oberon
03-13-12, 08:18 AM
Don't count the old guns out, good on her I say, she's done something I doubt I could do, so big respect to her. :salute:
August
03-13-12, 08:42 AM
Just remember. Age and experience often trumps youth and skill. :up:
Oberon
03-13-12, 09:14 AM
Amen August. I used to work with a lady in her sixties, and she could run rings around me. She could be a bit abrasive, and we had some humdinger of rows when I first started but when we got used to our different working styles we made a damn good team if I may say so. She retired about three years ago, I still miss working with her, just isn't the same.
August
03-13-12, 09:24 AM
Amen August. I used to work with a lady in her sixties, and she could run rings around me. She could be a bit abrasive, and we had some humdinger of rows when I first started but when we got used to our different working styles we made a damn good team if I may say so. She retired about three years ago, I still miss working with her, just isn't the same.

I hope someone says that about me some day. :salute:
Bilge_Rat
03-13-12, 09:50 AM
Why should anyone be surprised? The Army revised its training standards a few years back because it was too "tough" for today's out of shape recruit:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174337
August
03-13-12, 10:52 AM
Why should anyone be surprised? The Army revised its training standards a few years back because it was too "tough" for today's out of shape recruit:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174337

As I explained last time that's not really why they did it. They revamped PT to make it more applicable to the types of physical activities commonly found in combat. Nobody needs to be able to run two miles in sneakers and gym clothes, nor will their sit-up capabilities likely be tested.

On the other hand short quick dashes, such as crossing a road or open area are very applicable. Being able to clear a hole in the floor of a bombed out building is very applicable. Being able to lift your body off the ground with a combat load is very applicable. Being able to pull yourself over a wall is very applicable

So you can call it lowering standards if you want but in truth i'll bet the new PT test is a lot more physically challenging than the old one.
eddie
03-13-12, 12:51 PM
Went through boot camp in San Diego back in '68, would not want to do it again anytime soon. Makes me tired just thinking about it.
Jimbuna
03-13-12, 01:18 PM
She must hail from British stock :O:
Sailor Steve
03-13-12, 02:35 PM
As many have pointed out, the requirements get lower as you get older, add to that, they have different standards for females. Still, it isn't easy and many don't make it.
One pointed it out, and I pointed out that they seem to have only one standard. She beat all of the females save one, and several of the males.
Stealhead
03-13-12, 02:41 PM
As I explained last time that's not really why they did it. They revamped PT to make it more applicable to the types of physical activities commonly found in combat. Nobody needs to be able to run two miles in sneakers and gym clothes, nor will their sit-up capabilities likely be tested.

On the other hand short quick dashes, such as crossing a road or open area are very applicable. Being able to clear a hole in the floor of a bombed out building is very applicable. Being able to lift your body off the ground with a combat load is very applicable. Being able to pull yourself over a wall is very applicable

So you can call it lowering standards if you want but in truth i'll bet the new PT test is a lot more physically challenging than the old one.


It is:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/03/army-first-look-at-new-pt-030411w/

http://military-fitness.military.com/2011/08/soldiers-prepare-for-new-army-physical-fitness-test.html

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/09/army-new-pt-test-could-get-more-demanding-091011/

I read some place a few months back but cant find it that combat vets rated the "combat test" portion to be hard seeing as this is from guys who have been in combat I will take their judgement on it.From what I gather you must carry two weighted 7.62mm ammo cans and your weapon as you go though it that is what my brother said the last time he mentioned it.

That thread that Blidgerat mentioned is old and they did not make the test easier after some trials they made it harder making that thread irrelevant as the Army decided that the test was not too tough but in fact not tough enough as they have made it harder since 2010 that thread is old news and fails to take into consideration things that have changed since 2010.
August
03-13-12, 02:49 PM
One pointed it out, and I pointed out that they seem to have only one standard. She beat all of the females save one, and several of the males.

They do have different standards. Your PT test score is what determines whether you pass or not, not the raw times. Her age gives her a big handicap.

As for beating the kids i'll bet that was the initial PT test given very soon after arrival to basic. The article notes that she trained for it, whereas most of the youngsters probably didn't train at all. It was that way when I went though and I don't see why that would change any.

I'd like to see how she did in the last PT test. I'll bet it wasn't nearly as good in comparison.
RickC Sniper
03-13-12, 03:23 PM
All of our service men\women have to pass the PT test, and that is why it is adjusted for age and gender. The average 48 yr old master sgt is not expected to compete directly with the average 20 yr old who is in shape because he just completed 9 weeks of boot camp.

As for this granny taking basic training, why the heck are we recruiting 50 yr olds in the first place?
RickC Sniper
03-13-12, 03:25 PM
I'd like to see how she did in the last PT test. I'll bet it wasn't nearly as good in comparison.

This. :yep:
Stealhead
03-13-12, 03:49 PM
She is in the Reserves and a "Virtual" Solider which means that she performs a duty that can be done at a desk (PC) she is not in any front line or demanding support duty.It says that she is a Paralegal so my guess is that she is doing that same job for JAG.She received the rank more than likely because she was an E-5 when she got out of the Navy and they gave her the same rank in the Army which is Sergeant.I do not know about other branches but the Air Force does give people with a Masters degree the rank of E-6 so I assume that the other branches do something similar what they did was give her the rank that she left with the Navy E-5.

Also very few enlisted members are that old you might find the odd E-9 that is in their mid forties but most even senior enlisted are in their 30s.I left the USAF as an E-5 by the standard I set I would likely be an E-7 Master Sergeant (E-7,8,9 are top enlisted) by now and I am only 35 I enlisted in summer of 95 that would be 17 years now wow it does not seem like that long ago but it has been.:hmmm:

It depends on age at enlistment and how fast or slowly you went through the ranks I burned to E-5 but you never know.I would guess that the average 20+year is any where from 33~50.