is the american dream dead?

[mapuc]

According to this article, the bureaucracy have strangled the dream.

http://rt.com/usa/news/bureaucracy-dream-business-government-239/


Markus

[mookiemookie]

Poor article. It cherry picks a few examples that may or may not be accurately described (a florist exam that "some" describes as harder than the bar? Who are these mysterious "some?"), and uses that to make a blanket statement about all startup business in the U.S.

Regulation is necessary, but there's a middle ground. Too little is just as bad as too much. Look what happened when regulators looked the other way on credit default swaps. You end up with things like AIG. Look what happened when the Fed refused to enforce prudent lending standards. You end up with a slew of loans made to those who could never afford them.

Is the American dream dead? The OECD finds that social mobility in America is now lower than in Europe (http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf). The middle class is eroding away, opportunities to improve oneself are becoming crushed under spiraling tuitions and slashed student loan programs. Land of opportunity, indeed. Maybe we should rename it the European dream?

[Skybird]

The American dream? The belief that there is a just and causal link between effort you put into it and wealth that you earn from that effort. Everybody forges his own destiny. Everybody is "seines Glückes Schmied". Well, it would be nice if it were that way, but I disagree oin that it really is. For most, it is not, and luck or bad luck play the dominant role in people life. We cannot enforce our fate. For man, and especially for Americans, it seems :) , this insight is a hard pill to swallow.

Reality has proven it wrong for the majority of cases. Most people try hard and harder, but just get exploited in their weak position, and never make it from dishwasher to millionaire. They become little wheels in the bigger machinery, or struggle hard to improv e, but keep drowning in the swamp at the bottom. The gap between rich and poor is widening, more and more wealth gets accumulated in few and fewer hands at the top, and the real income - after cold progression - for the growing majority of people has declined over the past two decades. For the newcomers at the starting line, it becomes more and more difficult with every generation , due to the loss of resources society has to offer, and the growing strength of the longer and longer established establishement.

There are exceptions, yes. For every winner, there seems to be a hundred loosers nevertheless. And the strength of the few allows them to exploit the majority due to its relatiove weakness. And that is what unregulated markets are about.

The American Dream - that is a religious utopia for a fair and just, balanced and perfect paradise. As an utopia, it serves as an attractor. But it shares the fate of every utopia - that utopias are not real is part of the definition of that term.


The american social model has failed because the dream turned into a nightmare, and the law of the strongest took effect. The European social system has failed because it became unaffordable and spent more than it earned. Now the US tries to copy some of the european features, and Europe tries to copy some of the American features.

How can anything good come from this if you add something bad to something that already is bad? Two bads together make one good?

I think it means that it just is being made worse. And thats what I see in the EU, and in the US as well.

[mapuc]

That's why I asked, I haven't got so many friends from USA, so you are the only one I can ask if it's true or not.

So from my point of view it's hard to see if the article is poor or not.

But from reading your statement it's not that hard and the dream is not dead.

Markus

[Stealhead]

What is the American Dream in the first place? Different people desire different things for some their "dream" might not be realistic.What if your dream is to own a business? You cloud succeed or fail in such an endeavor.For some it is to own a house but that might not be the "dream" of every person.I never bought into that American Dream nonsense myself.A dream in my mind is something not of this world something you can not really achieve.In the US if you put proper effort into your goal you have a very good chance of achieving it you just need to have a realistic goal.Times are hard in the US right now they have been hard before and everyone did just fine.Depending on your goal it might take a lot of effort and you might have set backs but like I sadi if you have a reasonable goal you will achieve it.If your gaol is to have as much money as Bill Gates then you are an idiot only a handful of people achieve such a lofty goal and for must such a thing is dream.

[mookiemookie]

That's why I asked, I haven't got so many friends from USA, so you are the only one I can ask if it's true or not.

So from my point of view it's hard to see if the article is poor or not.

But from reading your statement it's not that hard and the dream is not dead.

Markus

It can be hard or it can be easy. It depends on what you want to do and what sort of business you want to open, if that's your idea. It's silly to draw conclusions about all business in all parts of America from these few examples.

While it's always been true that those born into wealthier families have it easier, what's concerning is that those born to less well off parents are finding it increasingly more likely that they'll do no better than their parents did.

[Tribesman]

is the american dream dead?

Is RT a decent source, shouldn't they be doing articles about Putins miracle election and Putins business friendly world? Or maybe how lack of regulation of the vodka market is ending up with people dying from drinking poison.
How comes RT missed out on a very common gripe about regulations strangling business. Limos and taxis, poor people who buy a limo and set up a limo company with a licence for limos are not allowed to operate as a metered taxi like people who have bought a taxi licence...its outrageous:03:

[Platapus]

Well if your American Dream is to exploit people, take unfair advantage of them, sell them lower quality products that can hurt them, while at the same time focus solely on how much money you can get from people, then yes regulations may kill your version of the American Dream.

However, if your idea of an American Dream is to be treated fairly, to be able to buy services/products that work and don't hurt you, and for companies to have a balance between pure capitalism and taking care of their workers/customers, than no, regulations won't kill your American Dream.

The issue is that the American Dream is different for everyone.

As we found out in the 19th century, the idea of trusting companies to self-police did not work out so good. Perhaps in the future we may find out that over regulating won't work out so good. I hope we will be smart enough to find out that moderation is always the key.

All I know is that MY American Dream is going pretty good.

I have a good job with a decent salary (not as much as I want, but probably more than I deserve)
I have a good house that keeps me safe and warm
I live in a county with good services which enrich my life greatly

I have a government that keeps me safe from companies (regulations)
I have the press to keep me safe from the government (Transparency and accountability)
I have companies that keep me safe from the press (free market advertising)
:D
Not a perfect system, but pretty good from where I am sitting. :yeah:

[Skybird]

To secure consensus on the meaning fo the term "American Dream" cannot hurt, if everybody means something different by it, then any communication necessarily must derail sooner or later. The term has become a phrase with a meaning of its own, and the meaning(s) of it are not really that arbitary or random anymore.

English Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream)

German Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream)

[Tribesman]

Sky delivers,if you look at the first picture in the first link you will have a clue on why segs in the city is moaning without cause on the restrictions they face.

[em2nought]

In the USA too many leeches makes it harder than it used to be, but you just have to get more frugal. MOST aren't willing to be frugal(greatest generation frugal). While our insurance and gov't are taking too much at least we have the internet which can help with being frugal - cheaper buying/info on how to do things. My pop thought of the gov't as a nuisance, but he could live with the amount they took. It's getting to be less that way. Personally I feel my gov't is more dangerous to me than any dirtbag hiding in a cave on the other side of the world.

You might also have to plan an exit strategy if you can get enough nuts together before it's too late. Thailand/Costa Rica/Dominican Republic :up: