Being 'pinged'

[Dellinger]

Ok, so when you are being pinged by an enemy warship, how exactly do you know you are in the DDs LOS and are appearing on his screen?

For example... I get a: Ping (3 seconds pass, or thereabouts), Ping (3sec.), Ping (3 sec), Ping (3 sec), Ping (very rapid, less than 1 sec between), Ping (<1 sec), Ping (<1 sec), Ping, etc, etc.

I try to keep track of the DD at the hydrophone station so I know his position.

Obviously if he passes from a relative 90 to a relative 270 very quickly he just past above me and probably has a good beed on my position.

I was under the assumption (from previous SH games) that is was lower frequency Ping followed by a rather loud Ping that indicated the DD knew where you were. Not a slower then faster ping.

Some clarity here will help me, thanks!

[Sailor Steve]

The only way to know for certain is when he starts dropping depth charges. If I hear a destroyer's propellors closing I assume he has me and go to flank speed, full rudder one way or the other (if he's off to one side I turn toward him in the assumption that this will throw his aim off) and dive another 50 feet or so.

I've never paid attention to the frequency or the volume of his pings. I just naturally assume that the game has it wrong.

[Armistead]

Far from me to know exactly how the game code works, but you will get everything from a soft ping on long scale to a loud ping on short scale, the question remains on the mechanics of it. As far as I know if you're being pinged they do have you, so I assume on long scale they don't have my location down, short scale they seemingly know and make runs. It is possible with the game it's just sound, they have you anyway and it just picks up as they get closer.

I do know it's easier to evade long scale soft pings, if you can get narrow to the ship pinging you often it will go away, very hard to to loose short scale, so maybe it works after all.

Also interesting is how they make runs, the majority of the time they come up your stern, sometimes they come from a flank or front. I have noticed the higher the crew rating the better they seem to hunt, moreso in pairs. I've fought 4-8 escorts I know have elite status because I've edited mine that way. It's fairly easy to flank and outrun stern run, but I've had elite escorts make runs together side by side, others dropping in circles, etc.., it's tough when 2-3 escorts drop in your area the same time.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Quite some time ago, I was in place (at PD) to ambush a TF in TMO. A DD that I hadn't seen earlier emerged from the distance and was making a bee-line toward me. His speed was commensurate with the rest of the TF so I deduced that he did not see me (night attack). He passed in front if me at about 1500yds. Just prior to this, I started hearing the dreaded ping...ping...ping and thought he detected me. My first inclination was to dive and hightail it out of there. I don't recall why I remained in my position, but I stayed put. Sure enough, despite the pinging, he never turned toward me and continued escorting the TF. Soon after he passed, the pinging ceased. He was the only DD that got close to me during that engagement
I was able to sink a heavy cruiser after the DD had gained enough distance, though he interrupted my attack on a CV. I got away clean

[Armistead]

Quite some time ago, I was in place (at PD) to ambush a TF in TMO. A DD that I hadn't seen earlier emerged from the distance and was making a bee-line toward me. His speed was commensurate with the rest of the TF so I deduced that he did not see me (night attack). He passed in front if me at about 1500yds. Just prior to this, I started hearing the dreaded ping...ping...ping and thought he detected me. My first inclination was to dive and hightail it out of there. I don't recall why I remained in my position, but I stayed put. Sure enough, despite the pinging, he never turned toward me and continued escorting the TF. Soon after he passed, the pinging ceased. He was the only DD that got close to me during that engagement
I was able to sink a heavy cruiser after the DD had gained enough distance, though he interrupted my attack on a CV. I got away clean

You were on the surface and got pinged? I've never heard of that or that it's even possible, maybe you meant different, but said you thought about diving and hauling arse.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I never said I was on the surface. "I was in place (at PD)", at periscope depth.:03:

[ddiplock]

I just had an attack on a Japanese TF off Luzon go to pot in my boat. I've deduced that the escorts will automatically detect you if you get within a certain distance of them, doesn't matter if its day or night, they will start pinging.

I had a feeling I was going to get detected as I knew I was coming in too close at PD but was holding out for a miracle that never came. All the ships searchlights clicked on and they all started to take evasive.

I dove USS Seal down to 400ft and evaded the depth charging that came there after and slunk away.

[Dellinger]

ok... so I guess the frequency, "volume" of ping, and lenght have no official correlation to what extent you are being detected. It's either you are detected or you are not... the sound is only ambiance? Or am I totally in left field here?

What happened in game...

I was 3,000 yds. off port to a convoy at night, no moon, winds 15m... the convoy zigged and I zagged to get a good firing position. My sonar man finds warship screws at X bearing, I turn and look through the TBT and all I see is bow of Japanese destroyer. I immediately crash to 240ft. His inital drop of charges was very close.

He kept circling and making port to starboard passes and pinging. This happens 4-5 times, each time the charges are further and further away. I seem to evade him.

(So, I'm not sure what to make of this... I get pinged--I was below a thermal-- and he's dropping charges but they are not 'on the mark'. So I assume I'm not detected? Or is he just a bad shot?)

Continuing story...
Eventually I don't hear high speed screws and come up to periscope depth for a look. The damn spot light is shining right on me but the watches on the DD didn't notice me (about 1500 yds. off his port-stern).
I dive right back down to 240.

I keep changing course every 5 mintues at 1 kt. on silent running and keep this up for an hr. Then I surface, spot him, what's estimated at 7,000 yds. (probably wrong as I couldn't i.d. the warship for certain)
Check for merchants screws, find them, surface the boat set course to catch up with the merchants.

The DD did turned his lights off as I was doing this and couldn't remember his relative bearing (oops). My watches didn't notice him and the next thing I know I'm being shelled. Another 2min he's on me and I'm dead.

I don't know how he spotted me at night but maybe it was from passive sonar detection, as he was full stop hanging out on the surface.

I had a gut feeling it wasn't going to turn out well when I was trying to close the gap on the surface at flank speed. At some points in the journey I was only 3,000 yds. from the merchants but i got careless and greedy.

I know now that night raids aren't as I easy as I had imagined lol.

EDIT: this is all in Jan. of '41

[WernherVonTrapp]

ok... so I guess the frequency, "volume" of ping, and lenght have no official correlation to what extent you are being detected. It's either you are detected or you are not... the sound is only ambiance? Well, I certainly wouldn't consider it a case of mere ambiance. The scenario I mentioned was a one shot deal and I haven't had a similar situation since. In most other cases, I had serious cause for concern when being pinged. The point is that, being pinged isn't necessarily a death warrant. They don't necessarily know your exact location and you still have evasive maneuvers to assist your departure from the vicinity. Like Sailor Steve said, you'll know for sure by the proximity of the DCs their discharging.
I once got DCed but they were being dropped hundreds of yards away from my actual position. They'll know for sure that a sub is probably around when their ships start to spontaneously explode. A torpedo wake, spotted periscope and a ping or two help them narrow things down.

[Armistead]

I never said I was on the surface. "I was in place (at PD)", at periscope depth.:03:


Yea, but you said " My first inclination was to dive and hightail it out of there. I don't recall why I remained in my position", usually one dives when they're on the surface...:D

[WernherVonTrapp]

Yea, but you said " My first inclination was to dive and hightail it out of there. I don't recall why I remained in my position", usually one dives when they're on the surface...:DYou mean you can't dive from PD?:D:D

[Dellinger]

Well, I certainly wouldn't consider it a case of mere ambiance. The scenario I mentioned was a one shot deal and I haven't had a similar situation since. In most other cases, I had serious cause for concern when being pinged. The point is that, being pinged isn't necessarily a death warrant. They don't necessarily know your exact location and you still have evasive maneuvers to assist your departure from the vicinity. Like Sailor Steve said, you'll know for sure by the proximity of the DCs their discharging.
I once got DCed but they were being dropped hundreds of yards away from my actual position. They'll know for sure that a sub is probably around when their ships start to spontaneously explode. A torpedo wake, spotted periscope and a ping or two help them narrow things down.

Ok, I see what you are saying now.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Ok, I see what you are saying now.Wow, you mean I actually helped somebody out, for once?:D Yay, and only two years in the making. See? Never give up, never surrender.:smug:

[Dellinger]

Yes, you did. What you said makes sense... I should be worried about being pinged BUT I should be much much more concerned with the depth charge locations. It prett self explanatory but I couldn't "see the forrest for the trees."

[Armistead]

The other issue is multiple escorts, I know for a fact I've fallen into 2-4 sonars cone at the same time, but obvious you only hear one ping scale.
In this case one made a run, the one to the right was dead stopped listening, but made his run after the other dropped, then the one in front made his run from the front...fun time. However, these have elite crew ratings and they seem to hunt better as a team with that rating.

It's often a hard issue to know which escort is pinging, even with surround sound it's hard for me.

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-07-10_200114_793.jpg

[Dellinger]

And I'm worried about one! Have one on me fellas. :ping:

[Armistead]

Depending on mods like RSRD, you can run into large convoys with many escorts, some 12-50 ships. If you load RSRD in 44 in areas like Formosa it gets dangerous, many large 12-20 ship convoys come through and most escorts are the Type AB-D which carry 6 Y guns and stern roll offs, throwing 24 charges per run. Worse, the water is often shallow and during the day planes will join in on the hunt. Get 4-6 Type AB's after you, the depth charges sound like machine gun fire....better be good at attack and evasion or you're a goner.

This really explains AI sonar well, by Ducimas explaining it for TMO...must read.

http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm

[Harald_Lange]

This really explains AI sonar well, by Ducimas explaining it for TMO...must read.

http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm

Really interesting read, thanks ( especially for a Monday morning in the office ) :O:

Man I love this place, I'd say the majority the enjoyment I get from SH3 is thanks to the guys on this forum :rock: