Happy Independance Day Texas

[Jimbuna]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKMFNSkmDuV4s26ATDKyOVnQKF3YFCo K1lK2_gH051HJabXRc97rIRZ3zm

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I thought that Americans have not yet kicked Texans out of the Union. :hmmm:




:O:

[Herr-Berbunch]

1836? A few hours still to go then. :O:

[mookiemookie]

My favorite story about Texas independence:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OG3i1o1f67E/RjIn8zkRe5I/AAAAAAAAAhg/Cu9fMhzqD_U/s320/Old-Come-and-Take-It.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gonzales

[Onkel Neal]

I love Texas. It's a great state, a great concept. Not perfect, not by a long shot, but there is a place and a need in this world for a Texas, and I am so glad to be part of it.

Sometimes it's the history, sometimes it's the places, sometimes the myth and shameless braggadocio and swagger in the face of common sense (but never carried too far).

Sometimes it's the people. Sam Houston earned his legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_houston).


Although Houston was a slave owner and opposed abolition, he opposed the secession of Texas from the Union.

An elected convention voted to secede from the United States on February 1, 1861, and Texas joined the Confederate States of America on March 2, 1861. Houston refused to recognize its legality, but the Texas legislature upheld the legitimacy of secession. The political forces that brought about Texas's secession were powerful enough to replace the state's Unionist governor.

Houston chose not to resist, stating, "I love Texas too well to bring civil strife and bloodshed upon her. To avert this calamity, I shall make no endeavor to maintain my authority as Chief Executive of this State, except by the peaceful exercise of my functions ... " He was evicted from his office on March 16, 1861, for refusing to take an oath of loyalty to the Confederacy, writing,

"Fellow-Citizens, in the name of your rights and liberties, which I believe have been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the nationality of Texas, which has been betrayed by the Convention, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the Constitution of Texas, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of my own conscience and manhood, which this Convention would degrade by dragging me before it, to pander to the malice of my enemies, I refuse to take this oath. I deny the power of this Convention to speak for Texas....I protest....against all the acts and doings of this convention and I declare them null and void."



God bless Texas :shucks:

http://media.victoriaadvocate.com/img/photos/2012/03/02/s_rodeo_t640.jpg?a6ea3ebd4438a44b86d2e9c39ecf76130 05fe067

[Jimbuna]

Of all the photos I took on our visit to the USS Texas I never took one with the San Jacinto monument nearby :damn:

I borrowed this one off the web and added two sparates.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/632/index2uw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/index2uw.jpg/)

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5936/111yd.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/111yd.jpg/)

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5272/222gfo.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/222gfo.jpg/)

Why did someone have to go and tell Dan he was on the poop deck? :DL

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/3107/333fb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/333fb.jpg/)

[Platapus]

So learn me something about history.

If the United States WON the Mexican American war, how did we get stuck with Texas? :D:D:D:D

(maybe we didn't win that war... we just thought we did?):O:

[vienna]

If the United States WON the Mexican American war, how did we get stuck with Texas? :D:D:D:D


Must have been in the small print of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo: just goes to show you should always throughly read anything before you sign it... :D

[_dgn_]

When I read about this history about (300) people coming from outside the country,

- who didn't want to speak the local language
- who didn't want to adopt the local religion
- who didn't want to become local citizens
- who flouted local laws
- who rebelled when the legitimate authority tried to force them
- who called for the aid a foreign country
- who celebrated their "liberation" and their following "independence"

it's impossible for me to forget what is happening now (and soon tomorrow) in Europe with people coming from outside the continent ...

Yes, Happy Independance Day Texas !

[Onkel Neal]

When I read about this history about (300) people coming from outside the country,

- who didn't want to speak the local language
- who didn't want to adopt the local religion
- who didn't want to become local citizens
- who flouted local laws
- who rebelled when the legitimate authority tried to force them
- who called for the aid a foreign country
- who celebrated their "liberation" and their following "independence"

it's impossible for me to forget what is happening now (and soon tomorrow) in Europe with people coming from outside the continent ...

Yes, Happy Independance Day Texas !

You forgot, they fought a small war and won :)

[_dgn_]

You forgot, they fought a small war and won :)

Sorry, I forgot this essential point ... :DL

Europe won in 732.

But now ???

[TarJak]

So where's the BBQ Neal?:)

[Torplexed]

So where's the BBQ Neal?:)

On the cake probably. :)

http://bbqbriskets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Image.ashx_.jpeg

[mookiemookie]

When I read about this history about (300) people coming from outside the country,

- who didn't want to speak the local language
- who didn't want to adopt the local religion
- who didn't want to become local citizens
- who flouted local laws
- who rebelled when the legitimate authority tried to force them
- who called for the aid a foreign country
- who celebrated their "liberation" and their following "independence"



Sounds like you should read a bit more on Texas history since you've got some important pieces wrong, and it's a tad insulting.

[_dgn_]

Sounds like you should read a bit more on Texas history since you've got some important pieces wrong, and it's a tad insulting.

Your version is the usual one, which is teached in Texas and in the United States : some valorous colonists, oppressed by a dictatorial authority, take guns and occupy a fort. They are all exterminated by brutal enemy soldiers. But their sacrifice needs a revenge and the fraternal United States run and bring peace and freedom.

But a flattering (WASP ?) and mythical version ! What are thinking in Texas the Spanish speaking people, or the descendants of people who where living here before Union rules, about it ?

When I was younger, I studied American history in Saint-Cyr (the French equivalent of West Point) and I got a Master's in History.

I learned that history is unfortunately history. Nothing in the past can be changed. But in theory, only. Because events can be differently presented, great events unawared, and minor ones magnified.

In this case, it's no more history, only propaganda.

Insulting ? No, only disturbing !

[u crank]

I LIKE TEXAS! HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY. :salute:

http://ph.cdn.photos.upi.com/collection/upi/b0fd558621a3ae134e4d5c1a0f5aea50/Dallas-Cowboys-Cheerleaders-perform-prior-to-the-Cowboys-Detroit-Lions-game_63.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

Your version is the usual one, which is teached in Texas and in the United States : some valorous colonists, oppressed by a dictatorial authority, take guns and occupy a fort. They are all exterminated by brutal enemy soldiers. But their sacrifice needs a revenge and the fraternal United States run and bring peace and freedom.

Your history is the biased outsider's, and is no more accurate than you claim ours is. First, no Mexicans wanted to live in Texas, so they made a deal with some Americans who were willing to work the land (or at least make their slaves do it).

Second, Santa Ana (not Mexico itself) was indeed a dictator who was run out of office after the loss of Texas. He made his way back in and then got run out a second time. As for not speaking the local language, there were some Mexicans living there. Guess what? They, led by Juan Seguin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Segu%C3%ADn, joined the Texians against Santa Ana. Why? Because he really was the ruthless dictator you defend. After being elected to the presidency he wrote a new constitution and disbanded the congress. Not just Texas but several Mexican states rebelled. Texas was the one which defeated him, without help from the United States. Santa Ana lost power and fled to the US, where he lived in exile.

When he was allowed to return he again made himself dictator. The Mexican-American war came about because Texas applied for US Statehood, and Santa Ana said he would not allow it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_L%C3%B3pez_de_Santa_Anna

But a flattering (WASP ?) and mythical version ! What are thinking in Texas the Spanish speaking people, or the descendants of people who where living here before Union rules, about it ?
It would appear you don't know as much as you claim.

In this case, it's no more history, only propaganda.
You saying it doesn't make it so. Please show your "true" history. Links, documents, anything.

Insulting ? No, only disturbing !
No, it's insulting. Showing that something is wrong is neither insulting nor disturbing. You don't do that, you just claim that what you disagree with is propaganda and myth. A lot of it is, but if you are the historian you claim to be then you should know that you need to prove your claims, not just make them.

[mookiemookie]

No, it's insulting. Showing that something is wrong is neither insulting nor disturbing. You don't do that, you just claim that what you disagree with is propaganda and myth. A lot of it is, but if you are the historian you claim to be then you should know that you need to prove your claims, not just make them.

Thank you, Steve. I was going to start off by saying that his premise was wrong as the Mexicans invited the American settlers in, because they didn't want to deal with the Comanche themselves. Not to mention the rest of the inaccuracies. But then I got that typed, and said forget it because it sounded like someone who was just set on slinging mud at an "ugly American."

[Onkel Neal]

In this case, it's no more history, only propaganda.

Insulting ? No, only disturbing !

Depends on how you look at it.:DL I am pretty happy the guys who immigrated in from Tennessee did grab the dictator Santa Ana by his peasant tunic and throw him out, and set up a new republic based on the USA. It sure worked out great for everyone lining in Texas, especially from the MLK era on.

Now, had this land stayed under the control of those "Spanish speaking people, or the descendants of people who where living here before Union rules", would it have been any different than that glorious paradise of prosperity, freedom, and security called Mexico we all know love? I think not.

[Hottentot]

(To self: "Don't start a historiographical debate, don't start a historiographical debate, don't start a historiographical debate, don't start a historiographical debate...")


Cheers Texas! :woot:

("...resist the temptation to start a historiographical debate, resist the temptation to start a historiographical debate, resist the temptation to start a historiographical debate...")

[nikimcbee]

Okay, Mookie, I need to see if you're a real Texan, or not.:hmmm:


So, do you have a cowboy(not dallas!) hat, boots and a big-ass belt buckle? Pictures, or it didn't happen. Yes, you must be wearing all three at the same time.:D

[nikimcbee]

Texas history stuff:
http://www.thealamo.org/battle/battle.php

http://www.sanjacinto-museum.org/The_Battle/

high water mark of Texas history:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160386&page=247

and more importantly:
http://www.deepdomain.net/

[Jimbuna]

That Lake Jackson Geographic Society link reminded me of how good it is to be a parent of quality offspring :rock:

[mookiemookie]

Okay, Mookie, I need to see if you're a real Texan, or not.:hmmm:


So, do you have a cowboy(not dallas!) hat, boots and a big-ass belt buckle? Pictures, or it didn't happen. Yes, you must be wearing all three at the same time.:D

Ahhhahahaha, I have a pair of boots. No belt buckle or hat, sorry.

[Onkel Neal]

That Lake Jackson Geographic Society link reminded me of how good it is to be a parent of quality offspring :rock:


Ah, yes. My daughters (now 23) say they thought that was some kind of internation scholastic society for the longest time. :D

[Sailor Steve]

This should answer McBee's questions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZuYkMn_aE

[nikimcbee]

My favorite story about Texas independence:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OG3i1o1f67E/RjIn8zkRe5I/AAAAAAAAAhg/Cu9fMhzqD_U/s320/Old-Come-and-Take-It.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gonzales

I had a great painting of this event that I bought at the San Jacinto monument.:up: