And yet gasoline prices rise

[yubba]

and here we go again, with our heads buried in the sand, how high does it have too go before it breaks you and this country {U.S.A} ?????????? as it stands, a can of store brand peas 89 cents.

[Gargamel]

Well considering part of it is the cost of gas futures, id say we're doing it to ourselves. Notice when the market crashed a few years ago, gas dropped too?

[nikimcbee]

I'm watching milk prices. I noticed the changes there, and the prices haven't dropped since they went up.:dead:

[mookiemookie]

Curtail speculation and you'll bring gas prices down. If the friggin CFTC would do what it was created to do, then this wouldn't be a problem. Bring regulatory power to bear on the OTC markets and the ICE exchange, take the profitability out of derivatives that serve no purpose except to profit at the expense of the lifeblood of the American economic machine like a vampire, and things will be better.

[the_tyrant]

Damn OPEC and that price fixing cartel

I am looking forward to the day when the middle east runs out of oil, or the day when a good replacement for oil is found.

that is day when the middle east is swept under carpet, and wars there would barely be worth a sidebar.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Speculation? No. More like price gouging reclassified as speculation so they can get away with it without massive uproar. :nope:

[CaptainHaplo]

Mookie has a very valid point here. The "speculation" on things has driven the cost much higher than its "real" worth - and thus we the consumer pay for it - because the supplies pays for it - because the refiner's pay for it.

While "drill, baby drill" will increase the supply of "raw" petroleum products, only with increased refinery capability would it significantly help. Even then, it only pushes futures "moderately" lower because the market isn't working on realtime supply and demand - instead its running on futures that have no real bearing or foundation on what the market really is.

The only reason futures are "allowed" is because the US economy is petro-driven. Thus the market will "always" be there - making "future speculation" a profitable action.

[gimpy117]

Drill baby drill!!!

oh wait...oil prices don't follow laws of supply and demand.....

[soopaman2]

Curtail speculation and you'll bring gas prices down. If the friggin CFTC would do what it was created to do, then this wouldn't be a problem. Bring regulatory power to bear on the OTC markets and the ICE exchange, take the profitability out of derivatives that serve no purpose except to profit at the expense of the lifeblood of the American economic machine like a vampire, and things will be better.


I have a solution to speculators, be it gold, sugar, oil, pork bellies, ets.

Force the buyers to take delivery. Not a certificate, but actual product.

Force them to arrange transport and storage of said 10000 barrels of oil or 1000 pounds of pork bellies.

I am sick of 3 card monty games being played with things that people depend on to survive, Like grain, corn, pork, oil, and all the other things the too rich do with their money to screw the workers over.

But people that typically speculate donate much more to campaigns, than those of us living paycheck to paycheck.

[TorpX]

Blaming the speculators might make people feel good, but it won't solve the problem. The reason everything prices are rising is than our money is worth less now than it was before. It is a direct consequence of the US Government printing money to finance it's spending. (Remember "Quantitative Easing"?) Regulate the speculators all you want, have a congressional lynching, but it will not make prices go back down. As long as the Fed keeps inflating the currency, it will lose value.

[Gargamel]

But where has hat inflation gone to? I know I haven't seen any of it. My info e hasnt grown to match. I know that. Neither has most of us. It goes to the 1%rs we hear so much about.

[TorpX]

If you mean who benefits from it, only the Gov't. It is a sneaky way for Congress, and El Presidente to spend more without having to raise taxes or borrow money. It is, in effect, the same as counterfieting. The people hurt the most are people who are retired, or have substantial savings. They had to work hard, earning money that was really worth something. Then when they go to spend it, they find it is only worth a fraction of what it should be worth. In the long run, the whole nation will be hurt by all this.

[magic452]

Just wait till real inflation hits and it's not too far off.

They can't keep interest rates this low forever and that is the only thing keeping this economy going. They are stuck between a rock (Debt) and a hard place (inflation) They don't have any options left. One way or the other we are going to take it in the shorts. :damn:

Magic

[Oberon]

Try living in the fuel tax capital of Europe... :O:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Try living in the fuel tax capital of Europe... :O:

Suffolk? :hmmm:

Ah yes, but fortunately it all goes back in to our wonderful, world-class road system so we don't have to worry about things like pot-holes or never-ending, never-working-on-them roadworks.




Uh, what? Why wake me from my super dream now? :arrgh!:

[Catfish]

Gas and oil prices have nothing to do with availability.
They are entirely made (up) by the stock market.
Which is why England's commerce and economy is going down and down, they rely entirely on their (free, or better: out of bounds) London stock market and produce almost nothing any more. Without being a wiseass this system of compound interest and stock markets will soon crash. Indeed it already has - only politicians have not realized it, while managers have parked their Lear jets already pointing towards the Carribean, or Cayman islands.

[Oberon]

Suffolk? :hmmm:

Ah yes, but fortunately it all goes back in to our wonderful, world-class road system so we don't have to worry about things like pot-holes or never-ending, never-working-on-them roadworks.




Uh, what? Why wake me from my super dream now? :arrgh!:

Nah, the UK itself mate. The inner cities are the worst though IIRC, tends to be a smidge cheaper in the sticks, but it's still ludicrous.
And even those of us who don't drive (like myself) have to suffer because of the skyrocketing train and bus fares.

If you want more people to use public transport...here's a tip...don't make them have to take out a loan to travel to the next bloody town.

[Oberon]

heading towards the Carribean, or Cayman islands.

With the UK it's the Channel Islands. Half of London is owned by people 'living' in the Channel Islands. :damn:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Aside from the general price of petrol, the variation around the country winds me up. Their excuse? Because of transportation costs.

But I live about 3 miles (crow's distance) from LOR, and yet if I drive to the same 'brand' station about 60 miles away, or further,it's some 10p cheaper! :damn:

/rant :shifty:

[mookiemookie]

Blaming the speculators might make people feel good, but it won't solve the problem. The reason everything prices are rising is than our money is worth less now than it was before. It is a direct consequence of the US Government printing money to finance it's spending. (Remember "Quantitative Easing"?) Regulate the speculators all you want, have a congressional lynching, but it will not make prices go back down. As long as the Fed keeps inflating the currency, it will lose value.


Got any data to back up that assertion? I've got data to disprove it.

http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/gas-prices-inflation-adjusted.jpg

Gas prices adjusted for inflation are still up drastically since 2000 when Congress allowed speculators to trade without oversight on the OTC (over the counter - i.e. not on an exchange) markets and when ICE (the international commodities trading platform) was instituted.

If what you said was true, and the runup in prices was solely due to inflation, then the inflation adjusted price would be steady. It's not. QED.

[Ducimus]

Problem with gasoline, is it's a finite resource that is currently not following the laws of supply and demand.

edit:
And it's only going to get worse with time. Anyone would be wise to start looking into hybrid vehicles.

[Rhodes]

Above 1.70€ litter here! Diesel is now 1.50€ and of course rising...

[MH]

A bit more than 2$ a liter here.
Prices went up just last night.:damn:

[TorpX]

If what you said was true, and the runup in prices was solely due to inflation, then the inflation adjusted price would be steady. It's not. QED.

I didn't mean that the rise in prices is soley, or even mostly due to inflation. There is the matter of instability/Iran stuff in ME. But there is little that can be done about that. The Fed inflation is a self-inflicted wound, though. I really doubt that speculation is a big factor. I focused on inflation because it will affect everything, not just gas.

[Jimbuna]

Above 1.70€ litter here! Diesel is now 1.50€ and of course rising...

Then that is slightly higher than the UK :yep:

[NeonSamurai]

And we complain when it goes about $1.30 per liter in Canada (yesterday it was $1.245 where I am)

[Jimbuna]

UK Petrol Prices for Thursday 1st March 2012

.................................Avg.............. ...........Min.................................Max

Unleaded................137.44p................... ...130.9p.........................149.9p
Diesel.....................144.67p................ .....137.9p.........................155.9p
SuperUnleaded.......144.95p......................1 34.9p..........................159.9p
Premium Diesel......152.58p.......................143.9p.. .......................160.9p
LPG.........................75.72p................ .........66.9p...........................84.9p

[STEED]

Welcome to the world of corporate greed.

[Ducimus]

And nobody will do anything about it except bend over and take it.

[STEED]

And nobody will do anything about it except bend over and take it.

Got it in one. :up:

They know it, they don't care, they do what the hell they like...:shifty:

[Stealhead]

And nobody will do anything about it except bend over and take it.


Well short term wise there really is not anything that people can do except perhaps become much more fuel efficient.Even if many people where to do so I dont think it would make much difference we have been relying on oil for so long now is it 100% our life blood.Until just the last few years except for the two 70's oil embargoes oil being in short supply or actually being a finite resource has not been on many peoples minds and many people refuse to believe that there is a limited amount of oil left.

There are so many products beyond just fuel that rely on fossil fuels it is mind blowing,plastics, pharmaceuticals, fertilizers,many other chemicals all these things will need to be re-engineered to use different resources.Right now our entire modern world relies on oil.The big question is will we be able to come up with the many effective alternatives in time before oil runs out?I think we will be in real trouble to be honest we should have begun the research into this years ago the early 70's embargoes should have gotten the ball rolling much more than it did.

What really got me thinking about how limited our fossil fuel life blood is was after having joined the Air Force and seeing first hand all the activity that occurs most of it requiring a good amount of fossil fuel.I got to thinking just in one day all the military aircraft and all the civilian aircraft coming and going each day all the cars and trucks coming and going around the world it really made me realize that at some point there was not going to be enough oil to go around for everyone and sooner or later for anyone (unless your Mad Max and it wound up being sand in that tanker.)

The powers that be want to squeeze every last drop of profit from oil.I personally think that they really do have a rough idea how much oil is left and feasible to get to and they will just sit back and reap the benefits of everyone paying more and more for as time goes by.

[Hanomag]

Well maybe we will get EMP'd or hit with an asteroid and then there will be no need for fuel or electricity...

Till that happens its a big sh**t sandwich ... so dig in!!! MMMM MM Good!! :yeah:

[mookiemookie]

I really doubt that speculation is a big factor.


Ignore the evidence and empirical data all you like, then.

UK Petrol Prices for Thursday 1st March 2012

.................................Avg.............. ...........Min.................................Max

Unleaded................137.44p................... ...130.9p.........................149.9p
Diesel.....................144.67p................ .....137.9p.........................155.9p
SuperUnleaded.......144.95p......................1 34.9p..........................159.9p
Premium Diesel......152.58p.......................143.9p.. .......................160.9p
LPG.........................75.72p................ .........66.9p...........................84.9p

Sheeshk, jim. If my math is correct, 137.44p per litre is $8.26 a gallon here. Down the street from me, it's going for $3.49 a gallon...I guess that makes it 92p

[Stealhead]

Well maybe we will get EMP'd or hit with an asteroid and then there will be no need for fuel or electricity...

Till that happens its a big sh**t sandwich ... so dig in!!! MMMM MM Good!! :yeah:


Not too worried about an EMP or asteroid really.The only EMP that could wipe out the entire worlds power grid can only come form the sun and such events are exceedingly rare and the next known "close call" from an asteroid is not until 2029 ans that one should only come between earth and our farther out satellites.Fossil fuel getting low and then running out is an event that is 100% going to happen the ramifications of we actually can have a control over if we choose to do so.Of course it seems to be human nature for some reason to ignore the most obvious danger sometimes.

Why eat a sheeeet sandwich when you do not have to?At the same time mother nature tends to handle things from time to time and I dont mean to sound inhumane but there are far too many humans on earth for the planet to sustain us all so something is going to come along and reduce our numbers and that is unavoidable and it seems bad if you are the one to die from some pandemic but in the end that is natures way keeping things in check.

[Harald_Lange]

Try running at ahead one-third, save bags of fuel that way!

[jumpy]

Considering the price of petrol and diesel here in the UK, all of you over the pond can shut the hell up about how much 'gas' costs :stare:


:O:

[STEED]

Considering the price of petrol and diesel here in the UK, all of you over the pond can shut the hell up about how much 'gas' costs :stare:


:O::har:

[Ducimus]

Considering the price of petrol and diesel here in the UK, all of you over the pond can shut the hell up about how much 'gas' costs :stare:


:O:


Only if your daily commute looks something like this. (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Jefferson+Street,+Riverside,+CA&daddr=irvine,+CA&hl=en&ll=33.836201,-117.526245&spn=1.243334,2.400513&sll=33.776864,-117.667694&sspn=0.622107,1.200256&geocode=FcymBQIdGIQA-SmLZbkbYLDcgDElCLM2D0-WRg%3BFev5AQIdepj6-CnjQJFoDt3cgDE5mkpgdbV6pw&mra=ls&t=m&z=9) If you don't have the commute to match, then you can kindly shut yer yap. :O:

[STEED]

The gas...sorry petrol war has started. :o:rotfl2::88)

[Oberon]

Not too worried about an EMP or asteroid really.The only EMP that could wipe out the entire worlds power grid can only come form the sun and such events are exceedingly rare and the next known "close call" from an asteroid is not until 2029 ans that one should only come between earth and our farther out satellites.Fossil fuel getting low and then running out is an event that is 100% going to happen the ramifications of we actually can have a control over if we choose to do so.Of course it seems to be human nature for some reason to ignore the most obvious danger sometimes.

Why eat a sheeeet sandwich when you do not have to?At the same time mother nature tends to handle things from time to time and I dont mean to sound inhumane but there are far too many humans on earth for the planet to sustain us all so something is going to come along and reduce our numbers and that is unavoidable and it seems bad if you are the one to die from some pandemic but in the end that is natures way keeping things in check.

Have a read of 'One Second After'.

[Jimbuna]

Ignore the evidence and empirical data all you like, then.



Sheeshk, jim. If my math is correct, 137.44p per litre is $8.26 a gallon here. Down the street from me, it's going for $3.49 a gallon...I guess that makes it 92p

Your there abouts Mark, I make it a little bit more but your probably working it out in US gallons and IIRC the UK gallon is a larger measure.

I remember when we met in 08 and the popular talk at the time was the fact gas/petrol had hit the $3 point.

[jumpy]

Only if your daily commute looks something like this. (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Jefferson+Street,+Riverside,+CA&daddr=irvine,+CA&hl=en&ll=33.836201,-117.526245&spn=1.243334,2.400513&sll=33.776864,-117.667694&sspn=0.622107,1.200256&geocode=FcymBQIdGIQA-SmLZbkbYLDcgDElCLM2D0-WRg%3BFev5AQIdepj6-CnjQJFoDt3cgDE5mkpgdbV6pw&mra=ls&t=m&z=9) If you don't have the commute to match, then you can kindly shut yer yap. :O:


lol
Well, I've had one or two jobs with that kind of commute mileage here in the UK. Hell, some of our contracts managers used to do almost a hundred miles each way to head office 4 days a week.
You chaps don't have a monopoly on the work commute you know. Tbh, if you have to travel more than 90 minutes each way, you should move or get a better job.

Having said all of that, if you work an office job, commuting is so last century... it's only jobsworth managers who are determined to prolong the stoneage; when everyone has decent internet connections, why can't I do my job from home any less efficiently than in an office that I have to spend almost an hour to get to each morning, burning precious time alive that I will never have refunded, not to mention the fuel to et there... instead of starting early because my computer is only in the next room at home?
Something is seriously wrong with the business model imo. :DL

[Sailor Steve]

Till that happens its a big sh**t sandwich ... so dig in!!! MMMM MM Good!! :yeah:
Please reread the forum rules on language.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item_language

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Only if your daily commute looks something like this. (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Jefferson+Street,+Riverside,+CA&daddr=irvine,+CA&hl=en&ll=33.836201,-117.526245&spn=1.243334,2.400513&sll=33.776864,-117.667694&sspn=0.622107,1.200256&geocode=FcymBQIdGIQA-SmLZbkbYLDcgDElCLM2D0-WRg%3BFev5AQIdepj6-CnjQJFoDt3cgDE5mkpgdbV6pw&mra=ls&t=m&z=9) If you don't have the commute to match, then you can kindly shut yer yap. :O:My dad's usual commute http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Viitasaari,+Suomi&daddr=Jyv%C3%A4skyl%C3%A4,+Suomi&hl=fi&ie=UTF8&sll=62.657545,25.76582&sspn=1.243924,2.905884&geocode=FTtwwgMd05SKASk3Ca7MXRWERjE1bxLnXgx3iQ%3BF VK_tQMdt9-IASkZManRFXSFRjHXopBnfWlXug&oq=Jyv%C3%A4skyl%C3%A4&mra=ltm&t=m&z=8

[Jimbuna]

Looks like the same route Ducimus posted :hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Looks like the same route Ducimus posted :hmmm:Better?

[Ducimus]

lol
Well, I've had one or two jobs with that kind of commute mileage here in the UK. Hell, some of our contracts managers used to do almost a hundred miles each way to head office 4 days a week.


Hold that thought....

Don't you folks have mass transportation? Trains, subway's and such?

We don't have those in any quantity to speak of.

[jumpy]

^^

Sure we do, but outside of say, London or maybe Birmingham, they're practically useless if you have to get anywhere by a specific time. Plus getting in and out of my home city on the bus costs about the same as paying for fuel in a car every week, with the added bonus of being late every day.

The Tube in london is great. But it's over a hundred miles away from me, so it's not much use :DL

Public transport in this country is a joke.
Over priced buses and decrepit railways, which are over priced too... It's all that privatisation you know.
We went from having an unreliable transport service that was cheap (read government subsidised - like germany and france and most of europe do with theirs), to having an unreliable transport service that is now prohibitively expensive for a lot of people.
Owning your own vehicle and fuelling it is getting that way now too; steady rises in insurance premiums, road tax and fuel duty - lets be clear: were it not for each and every government here adding 2/3's of the cost of every litre of fuel at the pump as tax/fuel duty, I wouldn't have half as much to lambaste as I do.

[Ducimus]

Yeah, and just how much idling do ya do? Hmmm?

Here's some pictures of that same commute i linked to earlier.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/nventrone1/R5gN9JOlmnI/AAAAAAAAAHI/dE3-z9J50h0/s288/91traffic.jpg

http://91commute.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/toll.jpg

http://laist.com/attachments/la_andy/91freeway.jpg

https://cdfonline.org/brads-blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/traffic.jpg


Thank F'ing god i don't drive that anymore. I did that for 5 freaking years. It's a wonder I have any sanity left.

[Buddahaid]

What was that about supply and demand? Looks like the supply is there if we can afford to export it so no drilling or Mideast oil needed. It all a shell game.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/31/united-states-gas-export_n_1177559.html

[Tribesman]

We went from having an unreliable transport service that was cheap (read government subsidised - like germany and france and most of europe do with theirs), to having an unreliable transport service that is now prohibitively expensive for a lot of people.

Don't forget the cherry on the cake of thatchers ideology.
You now have an unintegrated expensive privatised transport services that gets even more subsidies from the taxpayer than the cheaper nationalised service got.

What was that about supply and demand? Looks like the supply is there if we can afford to export it
:doh:
Looks like the demand is there as people are buying it.
If you didn't export it then you couldn't afford it as the price would go even higher.

[CaptainHaplo]

I dont mind gas prices much - only because I don't have to buy gas with my own money. Corporate vehicle and corporate card is rather nice. I get ALOT of windshield time, and so I just grab my kids on the way home after work, etc - because its all on my way anyways.

I will say this, its really helped my budget.

~ $70 bucks a pop to fill up the vehicle - and I have to do so at least every other day. Call it $800 a month in pure gas costs.... But then again, if I was using my own vehicle - I'd be getting 52 cents a mile - so I'd break even given wear and tear on the car.

Still, its a rip off and then some.

Now - to the debate. Supply and demand has a lot to do with it. But not "LIVE" supply and demand. This is why "drill" alone won't work, you have to build the refineries - course that would be more high paying jobs and more exportable energy along with lower domestic costs - but that would depress the futures "costs" - so its not going to happen.

Don't fool yourself - ecological concerns have little to do with the lack of drilling and refining in the US. Sure, its what is used as cover - same with the XL pipeline. The reality - you have excess energy, the price of said energy source goes down - meaning a lot of very powerful speculators are going to get caught short and lose their tails. THIS is why you don't see a true energy policy.

Want to fix it - stop the speculation. Let the deals that are done complete, but allow no more going forward. At that point, the speculators no longer have an interest in keeping the price high and climbing (which keeps them making money) and thus don't have a reason to pressure the leadership of BOTH parties to not use the resources we have.

[Stealhead]

Have a read of 'One Second After'.


I did not say that an EMP is impossible just one of many possible "hit the fan" as some like to say possibilities it is just one thing on the list really it might happen it might not happen.You could say I am a bit of a prepper myself all though I kind of just like living off the grid more so than overly worry about some end of it all situation I just do grow a lot of my own food but that is because I like fresh food and so dose my wife so if something goes bad we be to some extent dong what we normally do.

I heard that the last really strong solar one occurred in the 19th century when only a few things like telegraphs used electricity.


I at the authors page I take him with a grain of salt when I see him on FOX News.

@CaptainHaplo don't count on that company vehicle and gas forever many companies have been getting much stricter I work in refrigeration and the company I work for used to be they let you drive the trucks home now they make you leave them at the shop unless you have a job that day that is on the other end of the state or out of state.I know a lot of guys in other mechanical feilds that require a truck and the same goes for many of them a few years ago this would have been unheard off.I have a cousin that is a partner in a business insurance firm in Ft.Lauderdale they sat down and looked at costs and one of the things they cut back on was gas cards and such they got much stricter.

[Oberon]

Oh, I misinterpreted your post, my bad...but yeah, it's a pretty remote scenario, but not one that I'd rule out easily...but at least it's not something that, like you say, will effect the whole globe...but certainly it would be enough to screw up any Western nation it did hit.
The author may be taken with a pinch of salt, and some parts of the book do seem a bit...well...yeah...an advertisement for a bigger military budget, but it is an eye-opener and he obviously did his reading.

[Sailor Steve]

We don't have those in any quantity to speak of.
Maybe not down in Happy Valley, but up here in the real Utah I can ride the train and bus all over town. Until 20:00 hours, when they shut down. And the one I need doesn't run on Sundays. And it takes me two hours to get anywhere I need to go. And they don't match well, so I have a mile-and-a-half walk home from band practice.

But we have them! So there! :O:

[Sailor Steve]

Considering the price of petrol and diesel here in the UK, all of you over the pond can shut the hell up about how much 'gas' costs :stare:


:O:
Your petrol prices aren't any higher than ours. Your government, on the other hand, adds five times the amount that ours does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Maybe not down in Happy Valley, but up here in the real Utah I can ride the train and bus all over town. Until 20:00 hours, when they shut down. And the one I need doesn't run on Sundays. And it takes me two hours to get anywhere I need to go. And they don't match well, so I have a mile-and-a-half walk home from band practice.

But we have them! So there! :O:How big city you live in Steve? In my town there is 130,000 people which of about 80,000 lives in city area. Here public transport works from 05.00-02.00 during week (some services start earlier in morning, some shutdown earlier in evening). I live in neigbourhood about 6 km (3,7 mi) from centre and between 05.00-18.00 bus goes every 10 min and between 18.00-01.00 every 20 min.

[Catfish]

:o :

"Over priced buses and decrepit railways, which are over priced too... It's all that privatisation you know."

"Don't forget the cherry on the cake of thatchers ideology.
You now have an unintegrated expensive privatised transport services that gets even more subsidies from the taxpayer than the cheaper nationalised service got."

"Want to fix it - stop the speculation. Let the deals that are done complete, but allow no more going forward. At that point, the speculators no longer have an interest in keeping the price high and climbing (which keeps them making money) and thus don't have a reason to pressure the leadership of BOTH parties to not use the resources we have."


You are all COMMUNISTS !! :rotfl2:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

:o :

"Over priced buses and decrepit railways, which are over priced too... It's all that privatisation you know."

"Don't forget the cherry on the cake of thatchers ideology.
You now have an unintegrated expensive privatised transport services that gets even more subsidies from the taxpayer than the cheaper nationalised service got."

"Want to fix it - stop the speculation. Let the deals that are done complete, but allow no more going forward. At that point, the speculators no longer have an interest in keeping the price high and climbing (which keeps them making money) and thus don't have a reason to pressure the leadership of BOTH parties to not use the resources we have."


You are all COMMUNISTS !! :rotfl2:Feel free to come here in Finland and check service quality of our railways. I used to adjust my watch based on train's arrival on station as they were usually within few seconds of correct time. Nowadays they are within 5 min in good day, within 30 min in normal day and within few hours in bad days. :shifty:

EDIT: Above is about long range trains including regional, express, intercity and pendolino trains.

[Sailor Steve]

How big city you live in Steve? In my town there is 130,000 people which of about 80,000 lives in city area. Here public transport works from 05.00-02.00 during week (some services start earlier in morning, some shutdown earlier in evening). I live in neigbourhood about 6 km (3,7 mi) from centre and between 05.00-18.00 bus goes every 10 min and between 18.00-01.00 every 20 min.
Salt Lake City is only 186,000, but the Salt Lake Valley has 1.25 million people in 16 cities.

UTA (Utah Transit Authority) likes to brag about the awards they've won, and for the most part it's a pretty good system. That said, sometimes it's a huge pain in the neck, and they scheduled the buses where I need to go so it seems like they want to make it worse, not better.

[Tchocky]

Would those in favour of stopping speculation in oil futures also want to restrict trading in other commodities?

I mean,oil price is a function partly of speculation, yes. But look at what that speculative industry uses for a basis - expected supply, expected demand, and the prime movers of both.

That's why hearing a USA presidential candidate talk about war with Iran and reducing gas prices in the same breath is ridiculous.

[jumpy]

Your government, on the other hand, adds five times the amount that ours does.


ya rly

I think I already mentioned fuel duty and its place here in the UK.

lets be clear: were it not for each and every government here adding 2/3's of the cost of every litre of fuel at the pump as tax/fuel duty, I wouldn't have half as much to lambaste as I do

I hate quoting myself.

[yubba]

Gas Prices in California rise 25 cents this week, so how's that workin out for you ???????

[Torplexed]

Gas Prices in California rise 25 cents this week, so how's that workin out for you ???????

http://www.americanprogress.org/cartoons/2012/02/img/022412.jpg

[Tchocky]

Gas Prices in California rise 25 cents this week, so how's that workin out for you ???????

Summer is coming.

Every year gas prices rise as the summer demand racks up. Now, you've got a lot else going on in the oil production world, OPEC keeping production steady as Syrian unrest gets worse and talk of military action between Israel and Iran heats up. Election season in Teheran and Washington doesn't do much to easy this kind of thing.

Also the damn stuff is running out, which means it's not going to trend cheaper.

[Sailor Steve]

ya rly

I think I already mentioned fuel duty and its place here in the UK.


I hate quoting myself.
I was responding to a specific post, and didn't remember reading the other one. Sorry if I'm too stupid to take part in a conversation.

[Buddahaid]

Gas Prices in California rise 25 cents this week, so how's that workin out for you ???????

I get 41mpg so not as bad as you might expect.

[mookiemookie]

Would those in favour of stopping speculation in oil futures also want to restrict trading in other commodities?That's a good question. I would probably limit it to oil, since I feel it's such an important commodity to our nation. You could make a good case that it's a matter of national security. We can make do if the price of hog bellies got so high that we had to cut back bacon consumption. Precious metals are used a lot in construction and electronics, but I would bet that since they're used in such small amounts in those applications, we could probably survive a speculation-fueled price hike in them. I don't have any evidence, but I bet something like the price of copper adds little to the final cost of say, an iphone.

In any case, instituting volume limits or financial disincentives to excessive speculation in oil would probably be the best way to help stabilize prices.

I mean,oil price is a function partly of speculation, yes. But look at what that speculative industry uses for a basis - expected supply, expected demand, and the prime movers of both.


The laws of supply and demand aren't the drivers of speculation that you think they'd be, and when they are, they're amplified into wild price swings. Here's a chart of US oil production (http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?country=us&product=oil&graph=production) It was at it's highest level since 2003. Yet, during the past two years, we've seen the price of oil steadily increase.

For further proof, here's non-OPEC production (http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/PAPRPNT.gif) and OPEC production (http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/PAPRPOP.gif). The correlation between price and production has been lost.

Consumption doesn't have much to do with it either - Here it is plotted against price. (http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/USpetroleumconsumption.gif) If we ignore the price spikes from the oil crises in the 70s - a truly supply driven event, there's a pretty good correlation between consumption and price throughout the 90's. Except until we get to the 2000s, when oil speculation took off.

[Stealhead]

Summer is coming.

Every year gas prices rise as the summer demand racks up. Now, you've got a lot else going on in the oil production world, OPEC keeping production steady as Syrian unrest gets worse and talk of military action between Israel and Iran heats up. Election season in Teheran and Washington doesn't do much to easy this kind of thing.

Also the damn stuff is running out, which means it's not going to trend cheaper.

I am surprised that Yubba does not mention the cost of fuel is Florida I live in FL and so does Yubba(I think he claimed to have at one point anyway) and in Florida the gas prices always go up staring in spring to so they can get all that money from the tourists.I have relatives in Louisiana an drive out a few times a year Florida no matter the time of year always has higher prices than any other Gulf Coast state more so in the summer time yet the Gulf Coast has tons of oil wells and refineries(mostly in Texas) and there is a huge port in Florida where oil is off loaded we are closer to the supply line than other states yet we pay more than we should.

Something you may also notice in the US is that the price of fuel at a gas station right off of the Interstate almost always is .2~.3 cent sometimes as much as .10 more per gallon than a gas station away from the interstate.

[Torplexed]

Something you may also notice in the US is that the price of fuel at a gas station right off of the Interstate almost always is .2~.3 cent sometimes as much as .10 more per gallon than a gas station away from the interstate.

Gas is generally more expensive near the interstate because real estate prices are higher. It's what the market can bear. Conversely, visiting the "other side of the tracks" can save you money. In nicer neighborhoods, a gas station's overhead tends to be higher than in less savory sections because land is more expensive, as are property taxes. In addition, avoid buying gas near car repair shops. Those prices tend to skew upward.

[Stealhead]

I don't think that is always the case in the area I live in there is a smaller city with 3 gas stations this city has pretty high value land yet here the fuel runs about 4 cents cheaper than the cost of fuel in another larger city about 22 miles away there the gas stations are on lower cost land yet up there the price is higher the larger city also sees alot more traffic passing through that are not local.

I agree that the cost of property taxes does have an effect but the owner also knows that many people are not gong to drive another mile or so for cheaper gas so they are also taking advantage of that fact as well.

[Schroeder]

I get 41mpg so not as bad as you might expect.
Prius?:o
I get 35mpg in my 20 years old (rusty) beauty.

[jumpy]

I was responding to a specific post, and didn't remember reading the other one. Sorry if I'm too stupid to take part in a conversation.

sorry rough day.. acerbic response error :oops:

[Catfish]

Why not sell oil in other currencies than dollars ?

Just trolling.
Because it's the only measure that keeps the dollar afloat at all. So some were right, the middle east wars were not about oil, but about some countries intending to sell oil in other currencies, now let's see what is Iran up to ? :03:

[Sailor Steve]

sorry rough day.. acerbic response error :oops:
As I said privately, sometimes I just react badly. Apologies are mine. :sunny:

[MH]

Why not sell oil in other currencies than dollars ?

Just trolling.
Because it's the only measure that keeps the dollar afloat at all. So some were right, the middle east wars were not about oil, but about some countries intending to sell oil in other currencies, now let's see what is Iran up to ? :03:


Yes the Euro!......?

Wait...the gold Libyan rubel.;)

[Jimbuna]

Yes the Euro!......?

Wait...the gold Libyan rubel.;)

LOL :DL

Is their still a British Pound? :doh:

[STEED]

I'm going into the horse & cart business. :O:

Lets see those gas/petrol prices rocket on up baby. :)

[BossMark]

I'm going into the horse & cart business. :O:

That reminds me of this :har::haha::har::haha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRGq7ranxTw

[Harald_Lange]

Welcome to the future...

http://wordwolf.com/images/stories/fast_mobility_scooter.jpg

[STEED]

That reminds me of this :har::haha::har::haha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRGq7ranxTw

Are yes, forgot about that. And dung for the garden! :up:

[Jimbuna]

That reminds me of this :har::haha::har::haha:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRGq7ranxTw

Ah, the memories :DL