Yet another school shooting

[Gargamel]

Students shot in Ohio school; suspect in custody

Sorry cant get the link to work from my phone, anybody?


I only post this because I work less than a mile from the school in Chardon. Used to be my us rival, (we used to steal the c off the sign :D ). Half our Plant shut down so parents could go check on their kids, as far as I know, all our families are ok.

Things like this are just gettIng ridiculous. I used to think just the prevalence of media was reporting more of them, not more shootings actually occurring. Now I think it's a vicious circle feeding itself. Kids see the reports, go shoot up a school, media reports, etc etc


I'm very pro 2nd amendment, but this type of thing was never intended What can be done?

[GoldenRivet]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/chardon-high-school-shooting-shot-custody/story?id=15799815#.T0uaL_X4JTk

[the_tyrant]

I'm very pro 2nd amendment, but this type of thing was never intended What can be done?

The problem lies with the students, not the guns
Trust me, without guns, the messed up people will do school stabbings, school bombings

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

The problem lies with the students, not the guns
Trust me, without guns, the messed up people will do school stabbings, school bombingsVery much this. Here in Finland (where btw are a lot weapons available) there have been just handful of school shootings and none of bombings (in my knowledge). Instead students use more traditional methods like stabbing.

[CCIP]

I agree, taking away the guns doesn't necessarily take away the problems. Access to guns does make this kind of thing easier in some regard, but considering that bringing guns into schools or selling guns to minors is already illegal, it's not like further control measures will make it any more illegal.

Some would suggest that a big part of the fault for these lies with the media. Because of how much stories like this get sensationalized and spun, already-troubled and attention-hungry young people can come to the conclusion that this is their only way to take revenge, make a mark, disturb the rest of the society (which they've come around to hating). Like it or not, it's the public obsession with these stories that makes them "win" in the end.

[krashkart]

A lot of variables in play. I wonder how hard it is for kids to open up to their parents these days. If I had kids I would certainly want them to feel comfortable with unloading their troubles on me when they need it -- at least that way I could help them through the rough spots. That stuff comes out one way or another; unfortunately it's these sorts of violent eruptions that have become so popular among the kids that have no other outlet.

[Karle94]

Personally I believe it will be much better if someone is shot, rather than stabbed. If you`re stabbed in the gut, you have a very slim chance of surviving, unless there`s a hospital in the immediate vecinity. If you`re shot on the other hand, all you have to do is cover up the wound and keep it clean, unless the gunshot killed the victim immedietly. A stab wound is so much bigger and will lead to a much bigger blood loss, almost guaranteeing a kill. Not to mention that stabbing is much more painful.

[Sailor Steve]

I've never been stabbed or shot. Have you?

[CCIP]

I've never been stabbed or shot. Have you?

Indeed.

And Karle, consider the fact that most common civilian ammunition (unlike military) is hollow-point. I think to suggest that those make for clean, easy-to-treat wounds is a little misleading. Let alone if you are dealing with things like specialized ammunition or shotguns.

[MH]

The problem lies with the students, not the guns
Trust me, without guns, the messed up people will do school stabbings, school bombings

When you go stabbing you may be successful to score one or two victims before you get whacked in the head with a chair or ....
With guns it is a bit different but yes, messed up people are the problem in the same way as easy access to guns.

[Ducimus]

I think parents bare some responsibility if they weren't keeping there firearms secure. I would mention safe firearm handling practices as well but clearly that doesn't come into play when the intent is unmistakable.

Of course, i also have to admit that when i was a kid, i knew exactly where the gun safe key was, and my dad didn't know that i knew.

edit: and yeah, remove firearms, and they'll just use something else. Knives, hatchets, bats, chains, clubs, kitchen knives, you name it, they'll use it if they really want to hurt someone.

[Gargamel]

Personally I believe it will be much better if someone is shot, rather than stabbed. If you`re stabbed in the gut, you have a very slim chance of surviving, unless there`s a hospital in the immediate vecinity. If you`re shot on the other hand, all you have to do is cover up the wound and keep it clean, unless the gunshot killed the victim immedietly. A stab wound is so much bigger and will lead to a much bigger blood loss, almost guaranteeing a kill. Not to mention that stabbing is much more painful.

Please, do not enter medicine. I have never been shot, been shot at. Have been stabbed , but only a glancing blow.

I have treated countless numbers of both, and it is far worse to be shot.

[Ducimus]

Personally, and I don't know about anyone else, but I have a really BAD allergic reaction to cold steel and hot lead. I don't want either one entering my body.

[Karle94]

Please, do not enter medicine. I have never been shot, been shot at. Have been stabbed , but only a glancing blow.

I have treated countless numbers of both, and it is far worse to be shot.

Damn, that was my number one career choice.

[Ducimus]

Karle94, what your missing here, is things like hydrostatic shock, velocity, and all those nfity techncial terms.

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLPjTlj1pHk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSrlItrsbvs

See that channel behind the bullet? That's the damage you can't see. That's what a round does to your internal organs if your hit in the chest or stomach.

There's a reason why exit wounds are larger the entry wounds.

A knife by compairson, while it will surely kill you if it hits a vital organ or artery, lacks this added effect.

[AngusJS]

Umm... you can run from a guy with a knife. You cannot outrun a bullet. You cannot spray a room with knives. You can with a gun.

If it were possible to force kids to use knives or other melee weapons, that would be a good thing.

But come on, we all know that the real answer is to just arm all the students so they'll be able to take an attacker themselves. At least according to the the gun nuts. :doh:

[Ducimus]

Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school.

I hate saying that, because its typical Nanny over reactionary knee jerk reaction.

I do remember when I was in high school though. Gang violence was A LOT higher then it is now. My high school had 6 drive by's, they removed ALL lockers so you had to carry ALL your books, ALL the time, had several secruity guards, and later on having a full time Local PD office set up - and i went to the good high school. The other was worse.

[Karle94]

Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school.

I hate saying that, because its typical Nanny over reactionary knee jerk reaction.

I do remember when I was in high school though. Gang violence was A LOT higher then it is now. My high school had 6 drive by's, they removed ALL lockers so you had to carry ALL your books, ALL the time, had several secruity guards, and later on having a full time Local PD office set up - and i went to the good high school. The other was worse.

Actually, posting policemen or a dedicated security team to a school isn´t such a bad idea. It costs more, but it´ll money well spent.

[Stealhead]

"Only real answer, that i can think of, is a damn airport security styled metal detector you have to walk through when entering a high school."

Actually many schools in tougher areas have been doing this for over a decade now.If you look at it the crazy kid shooting others it usually happens at the nicer schools not the bad ones.Look at Columbine that school was and still is one of the best public schools in Colorado.Most schools in the US today have one full time LE officer in Florida and Louisiana they are called school resource officers I do not know what sates have them and what one don't.But even one LE officer is not gong to stop one nut bag ans that is the whole problem nuts are nuts and they are going to do what they are going to do not much really that can be done about it if they cant use a gun they will use a knife cant spree at school they will spree in the town.I am sure it has been an age old problem some nut I am sure on more than one occasion went round the village splitting wigs.

I agree with the others getting stabbed or shot is bad I'll pass on both thanks.:yep: running around stabbing someone is actually more violent as well the person who goes that route over a gun is truly a violent person in choosing such a personal way to kill.And you cant out run a bullet but moving makes you a harder target if you are trapped in a corner either weapon has your number even if you try to fight back.Either can be deadly depending on how you get hit either can cause shock though generally speaking bullets are much deadlier and CCIP even military FMJ rounds are very very nasty and they are more likely to pass though one person and hit another than JHPs and such the worst type for one person would be the expanding rounds designed for hunting big game you get hit by one of these in the head or torso you are very likely going to die even if you are a 1000+ pound bull moose well any most any head wound if it hits your brain or brain steam and you are finished unless you get very lucky like Cathy Giffords which i am guessing that that Glock must have had FMJs and she was close enough that the bullet went right though and did not have time to tumble as it passed through her head which shows that the primary effect with a bullet is pretty much what it happens to hit the type of round and the velocity at impact some times too much speed actually can lower damage.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I agree with the others getting stabbed or shot is bad I'll pass on both thanks.:yep: running around stabbing someone is actually more violent as well the person who goes that route over a gun is truly a violent person in choosing such a personal way to kill.And you cant out run a bullet but moving makes you a harder target if you are trapped in a corner either weapon has your number even if you try to fight back.Either can be deadly depending on how you get hit either can cause shock though generally speaking bullets are much deadlier and CCIP even military FMJ rounds are very very nasty and they are more likely to pass though one person and hit another than JHPs and such the worst type for one person would be the expanding rounds designed for hunting big game you get hit by one of these in the head or torso you are very likely going to die even if you are a 1000+ pound bull moose well any most any head wound if it hits your brain or brain steam and you are finished unless you get very lucky like Cathy Giffords which i am guessing that that Glock must have had FMJs and she was close enough that the bullet went right though and did not have time to tumble as it passed through her head which shows that the primary effect with a bullet is pretty much what it happens to hit the type of round and the velocity at impact some times too much speed actually can lower damage.Congresswoman's name was Gabrielle Giffords (namesake of USS Gabrielle Giffords LCS-10 no, not a joke unfortunately). If I remember correctly she was also lucky because bullet didn't shatter inside skull nor did it take significantly foreign objects inside brain. Important was ofcourse fast and efficient first aid.

[Stealhead]

Yeah I forgot the first name but you proved my point that the type of bullet being fired as well as the velocity at the time of impact and also the size and the grain of the bullet are all factors.A few milometers is what saved Giffords life.

The 9x19mm is a fairly fast bullet but also not very heavy so it tends to do less damage than other calibers so you have to be a bit more accurate than you would with say a .45 ACP which is a much slower bullet but also has much more mass behind it I would rather have a heavier round in a pistol not a faster lighter one.Of course I am not interested in shooting innocent unarmed people either.

Flip side of the coin is even a tiny .22 can kill you so basically foreign objects entering your body at any velocity or temperature has the potential to cause you to expire unnaturally.

[the_tyrant]

My school has 2 full time police officers here, and I have to say, the drug dealing and stuff did die down

I do not believe that guns themselves are the problem.

Schools represent things like government, and oppression(or at least the people who hate school think so)

Remove the guns and things like this would still happen.

Around 1 year ago, there were many preschool stabbings in china.

Those people had a grudge with the administration, and they attacked the education system. Schools are a noticible part of government (and they usually have no security). These guys only had knives, so they couldn't have attacked high-schools for fear of being overpowered.

Instead, they took their grudge with the government to preschools:nope:

[Gargamel]

Actually, posting policemen or a dedicated security team to a school isn´t such a bad idea. It costs more, but it´ll money well spent.

Right, been down that road. Next step is unrestricted searches, Orwellian policies. No thank you.

And what would a security guard at one door have done for the kid in he cafeteria?


Was just informed that one of my coworkers kid is one of the injured.

[MH]

My school has 2 full time police officers here, and I have to say, the drug dealing and stuff did die down

I do not believe that guns themselves are the problem.

Schools represent things like government, and oppression(or at least the people who hate school think so)

Remove the guns and things like this would still happen.


Guns are not the main issue but guns make it all more deadly.
I guess its the price you pay for having ability to buy guns just like IPhone device.
Not saying that gun control would make incidents like this a thing of the past in a short term but probably less likely to happen statistically in the future.
You have pros and cons in second amendment ...take it or leave it.

[Gargamel]

And a third one dies.

Again, another family friend of a coworker.

:nope:

[Platapus]

Where did this punk get the gun? Was it another case of the parents having unsecured handguns?

[yubba]

Happened in the lunch room, what the federal lunch bag inspecter didn't catch it ????? step away from the turkey sandwich, there's no veggies here, nothing too see. you wonder why god lets things like this happen, simple god is not allowed in school.

[Stealhead]

Oh right I never saw it that way god made the kid shot other kids at a school because god is angry because he is not allowed in schools.:roll:

My favorite kind of Christians the ones that go around telling everyone that god is vengeful at that you go to hell (I love that one you are telling me that you know what god intends for me is that not blasphemy to say that you know what god thinks?) if you do not believe every word of the bible
and that people and nations get punished for ticking god off if that is the case he would have never allowed the US to come into being in the first place seeing as the
majority of the founding fathers where more or less agnostic or at least believed that religion and government we to be separate and some where atheists but god allowed
these evil disobedient men to from a nation.I think many people confuse the fact that the US allows freedom of religion to mean religion and government mixing.

And people wonder why guys like Rick Santorum are popular.

[Tribesman]

Happened in the lunch room, what the federal lunch bag inspecter didn't catch it ????? step away from the turkey sandwich, there's no veggies here, nothing too see. you wonder why god lets things like this happen, simple god is not allowed in school.

It's not true, the reptilians ate god after the secret illuminati federal mandate that he only be served without vegetables...or was that served two vegetables.

[Ducimus]

Here's an update on this.

The Gun"man", is 17 year old T.J. Lane. He used a .22 caliber pistol, and as his upbringing goes, as the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/01/justice/ohio-school-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


I can't help but think that if people like that kid and his father was removed from the gene pool so they couldn't contaminate the rest of us, the world be a better place.

[Stealhead]

Here's an update on this.

The Gun"man", is 17 year old T.J. Lane. He used a .22 caliber pistol, and as his upbringing goes, as the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/01/justice/ohio-school-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


I can't help but think that if people like that kid and his father was removed from the gene pool so they couldn't contaminate the rest of us, the world be a better place.

That door swings both ways if you ask me I know people whose parents where lets just say model citizens:D and the kids ended up just fine despite the poor example set forth by their parents.I also know people that had very good parents wind up being screw ups the way I see it half nature half nurture but the nurturing can go either way.