Another pirate attack and this one is bad

[Betonov]

The captain and an engineer were killed on monday of the coast of Nigeria after a pirate attack on a bulk carrier

The "Fourseas SW" was attacked by pirates 110 nautical miles from the coast of Lagos, Nigeria on Feb 13, 2012. Most of those onboard the cargo ship fled into a secured room as a gunfight raged, while those on the bridge remained at their posts. The captain and chief engineer died of their wounds as the pirates sprayed the ship with gunfire.


http://www.momentng.com/en/news/6536/pirates-kill-captain-chief-engineer-in-ship-attack.html

http://www.globaltvbc.com/world/official+pirates+off+nigerias+coast+attack+cargo+s hip+shoot+dead+captain+chief+engineer/6442579573/story.html

[Penguin]

looks like piracy is also on the rise off Africa's western coast...

This raises two questions - maybe one of you skippers can answer:

- Do all freight vessels nowadays have designated safe rooms as in an secured, lockable room which is somehow resistant to small arms fire?
- Are there rules regarding handguns in international waters - or do the laws of the country under which the ships sails apply?

[Herr-Berbunch]

Not 100% sure on the answers to that.

British PM was considering allowing weapons on British vessels, but so few are registered here nowadays!

I've read of PMC's buying AKs in the Far East and then dumping them overboard in the Mediterranean after a safe passage, don't know how much that is real. - That leads to the question of dumping stuff overboard which isn't allowed... :hmmm:

[August]

I'm certainly no expert but safe rooms just don't sound very safe to me. Give up control of ones ship and hide in a box hoping that the Calvary will arrive in time?

I think eventually they're going to have to allow merchant vessels to arm themselves. It's just not right to keep asking civilian crews to travel defenseless through pirate infested waters without adequate naval protection.

[TLAM Strike]

I'm certainly no expert but safe rooms just don't sound very safe to me. Give up control of ones ship and hide in a box hoping that the Calvary will arrive in time?

A ship's safe room is normaly the engine room so the crew can still maintain control of the ship (or atleast prevent control of the ship). :03:

[August]

A ship's safe room is normaly the engine room so the crew can still maintain control of the ship (or atleast prevent control of the ship). :03:

That makes more sense. Thanks :salute:

[Ducimus]

Clearly the risks of piracy, are still not outweighing the rewards.

[BossMark]

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee374/rothwellwhite1/nj-1a.jpg
Escorts required bring this beast out of retirement

[TLAM Strike]

<snip>
Escorts required

For the merchantmen or the battlewagon? :hmmm:

[BossMark]

For the merchantmen or the battlewagon? :hmmm:
Yeah I should have worded it better :D

[vienna]

My father was on the S.S. Mayaguez when she was taken by the Cambodians in 1975 at the end of the Vietnam War. He told me that he and some others of the crew went down into the engine room to hide out, but then feared the Cambodians might blow up or torch the ship, so the engine room was not a choice place to be holed up. Even if there is a sort of "safe room", in a prolonged incident (and it appears some crews are held by pirates for months), the crew would eventually have to come out just out of hunger, thirst, or unlivable conditions...

[mapuc]

Danish registered merchant vessel may now have armed guards on board when they move in certain waters. The Danish parliament has given a general authorization.

Markus

[TLAM Strike]

I think Star Trek always had the best method of dealing with a hostile force taking over your ship...
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqe-mr_zBdg)

Even if there is a sort of "safe room", in a prolonged incident (and it appears some crews are held by pirates for months), the crew would eventually have to come out just out of hunger, thirst, or unlivable conditions...
If some of the crew do not make it to the safe room, then it fails. The pirates has hostages now. If they do all make it to a safe room there is nothing stopping the Marines from bording and retaking the ship because the crew is out of harms way.

[nikimcbee]

I think Star Trek always had the best method of dealing with a hostile force taking over your ship...
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqe-mr_zBdg)


If some of the crew do not make it to the safe room, then it fails. The pirates has hostages now. If they do all make it to a safe room there is nothing stopping the Marines from bording and retaking the ship because the crew is out of harms way.

I didn't realize the Enterprise had such a slow computer.

On a serious note, we've had this discussion before, with all of the ships in the World's navies, I'm kinda surprized they haven't started some sort of convoy system. Plus, nothing beats actual combat for training, you'd think every navy would be in their fighting pirates. You getta shoot live ammo and sink stuff.:yeah:

[TLAM Strike]

I didn't realize the Enterprise had such a slow computer. What did you expect? The thing ran on gameboy cartrages after all. :haha:

On a serious note, we've had this discussion before, with all of the ships in the World's navies, I'm kinda surprized they haven't started some sort of convoy system. Plus, nothing beats actual combat for training, you'd think every navy would be in their fighting pirates. You getta shoot live ammo and sink stuff.:yeah: They are running some convoys but there are a lot of ships out there and not everyone likes to cooperate.

[CCIP]

I think eventually they're going to have to allow merchant vessels to arm themselves. It's just not right to keep asking civilian crews to travel defenseless through pirate infested waters without adequate naval protection.

As far as I know, that's not an eventuality but something that's been happening for a while. It's far from universal, but from what I understand a lot of merchants in hot piracy areas already have armed guards on board.

[August]

As far as I know, that's not an eventuality but something that's been happening for a while. It's far from universal, but from what I understand a lot of merchants in hot piracy areas already have armed guards on board.

I was under the impression there were issues with armed merchant ships getting docking rights. That has been resolved?

[RickC Sniper]

As far as I know, that's not an eventuality but something that's been happening for a while. It's far from universal, but from what I understand a lot of merchants in hot piracy areas already have armed guards on board.


I would think that because of the monetary loss of even one ship by the shipping company this would be an easy decision.

Perhaps for now, insurance is still more cost effective for them?

[nikimcbee]

Speaking of cost effectiveness, I wonder what the cost would be to re-route ships away from there?

[Herr-Berbunch]

We need to get ourselves a...


Convoy


It's worked before, against a greater enemy and unemployed (?) Somali fishermen.

[Penguin]

About safe rooms: the second article talks about an incident on Sautday where "the crew hid inside a safe room as pirates shot at the ship, though they left after about 25 minutes, the bureau said."

It also worked for the crew of the German ships Beluga Fortune, MS Taipan and Magellan Star, who were fred by the British, Dutch and Americans - somehow it's always other country's cavalry who safe our ships ;)

Here is an interesting interview with the captain of the Magellan Star, who talks explicitely about the ship's panic room: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,717133,00.html - always useful to have a plan B...


Speaking of cost effectiveness, I wonder what the cost would be to re-route ships away from there?

The problem seems to be that Lagos is a mayor shipping port for western Africa, so no re-routing for ships which have to sail to or from there. Sadly the articles don't state where the ship in question came from.

[Jimbuna]

The convoy system is definitely the best way forward IMHO but IIRC the companies of the merchantmen would then be required to pay for the escorts and that is a price they are unwilling to meet.

The only way that would happen would be if the insurers made it a requirement.

The next stage will probably be armed personnel aboard the merchantmen...a step I suspect that has already been taken by some shipping companies but not been made public for docking permissions in some ports etc.

[nikimcbee]

I wish they would do something like the Q-ship concept. If you got enough of them out there killing/sinking pirates (NOT arresting them), you might cuase enough doubt in the pirates mind to think twice about raiding a ship.

Buy some old merchant ship, load it up with country X's special forces, let them loose in African waters. Pay a bonus for every pirate ship destroyed.:arrgh!:

[the_tyrant]

I wish they would do something like the Q-ship concept. If you got enough of them out there killing/sinking pirates (NOT arresting them), you might cuase enough doubt in the pirates mind to think twice about raiding a ship.

Buy some old merchant ship, load it up with country X's special forces, let them loose in African waters. Pay a bonus for every pirate ship destroyed.:arrgh!:

Its a political landmine though

what if one of the African governments objects?
or if the q ship accidentally kill local fishermen?

[TLAM Strike]

I wish they would do something like the Q-ship concept. If you got enough of them out there killing/sinking pirates (NOT arresting them), you might cuase enough doubt in the pirates mind to think twice about raiding a ship.

Buy some old merchant ship, load it up with country X's special forces, let them loose in African waters. Pay a bonus for every pirate ship destroyed.:arrgh!:
Your thinking too complex, don't forget these pirates can't tell the difference between a fleet replenishment oiler and a crude oil oiler. :03:

The NATO resupply ships have nabbed their fair share of pirates stupid enough to not keep a copy of Jane's on hand. :haha:

[nikimcbee]

Your thinking too complex, don't forget these pirates can't tell the difference between a fleet replenishment oiler and a crude oil oiler. :03:

The NATO resupply ships have nabbed their fair share of pirates stupid enough to not keep a copy of Jane's on hand. :haha:


Well this should be pretty simple then:
This:
http://themaritimeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/hyberbasdfg.jpg


+

http://www.doolwind.com/images/blog/phalanx.jpg

+

http://www.usnavy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/navy_seals.jpg


=

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jlv/lowres/jlvn544l.jpg

former pirate

[Stealhead]

I was under the impression there were issues with armed merchant ships getting docking rights. That has been resolved?



I do not think that it has there are a few PMCs that provide the service but the problem is the sea of legal issues(no pun intended) that arise dealing with the laws of the nations of various ports.Another problem is numbers I am not sure about other regions but pirates in the South China Sea and other south east asian waters have been known to pull raids with as many as 100 people that is really too large of a force for a handful of mercs to deal with and what of a tanker vessel not really an ideal place for firearms at the same time the PMCs can be costly to all but the largest shipping companies.I think arming the crews is a bad idea the crewmen are sailors not fighters they are just as likely to take their chances in a good hiding place as they are to fight back plenty of good hiding places on a large vessel.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Your thinking too complex, don't forget these pirates can't tell the difference between a fleet replenishment oiler and a crude oil oiler. :03:

The NATO resupply ships have nabbed their fair share of pirates stupid enough to not keep a copy of Jane's on hand. :haha:They have already demonstrated that they can't tell the difference between a Burke class destroyer and a bulk carrier... :03: