Safe Distances/Depths?

[Harald_Lange]

I've searched around but I cannot seem to find any documentation about safe operating ranges. For example, things like:

How close can I get to a target without being seen on the surface in calm/rough weather at day/night?
How close can I get to a target whilst submerged at ahead slow/ahead standard?


Now I know these are a little 'how long is a piece of string' but I was wondering if anyone has documented anything like this, just as a starting point.

The main reason for asking is that I'm constantly trying to increase my realism setting and things like this are, to me, still complete guesswork.

:salute:

[maillemaker]

I've searched around but I cannot seem to find any documentation about safe operating ranges. For example, things like:

How close can I get to a target without being seen on the surface in calm/rough weather at day/night?
How close can I get to a target whilst submerged at ahead slow/ahead standard?


Now I know these are a little 'how long is a piece of string' but I was wondering if anyone has documented anything like this, just as a starting point.

The main reason for asking is that I'm constantly trying to increase my realism setting and things like this are, to me, still complete guesswork.

It depends on the weather conditions and your angle to the target.

In stock SH3 there is a "detection indicator" - a profile of your sub. When you are not detected it is green. I think it turns yellow and then red as you get detected, but I have not used it in years so I don't remember.

Radar is another factor that you have to take into account.

In 1932 and early 1940, you can attack convoys at night on the surface, as they don't have guns to shoot back even if they see you. I've successfully attacked on the surface in foul weather right in the midst of a convoy, and it was necessary as I could not see beyond 500m anyway.

After 1941, you really don't want to risk being caught on the surface as nearly every ship is armed.

I have the 16K GWX mod installed, so I can "see" out to 16,000m. I try to follow alongside convoys at flank speed at around 10,000 or more meters. This seems to be far enough to avoid detection from escorts, though sometimes a flanking escort will start making motions in my direction and I assume they are getting radar hits so I will break away from the convoy until they go back.

My preferred method of attack is to do an end-around and get in front of the convoy by 10,000m and submerge, getting within 2000m of the track of the lead escort. Any closer and you risk the lead escort picking you up as he goes by, any farther and the flank escort will run over you with the same result.

I am dead stop as the lead escort goes by, then I go slow ahead as he passes to bring me inside the convoy columns.

By late 1942 I don't think it is a good idea to try and get inside the ranks of the convoy, especially in fair weather. The escorts can hear you all the way down to 220m. So after mid 1942 I am going to long-range attacks only - 5000-8000m with steamers on slow at night.

While submerged, you can get as close as you want to any target not carrying sonar equipment - they can't see you and they can't hear you. So you can go right under a merchant submerged and they will never detect you.

With destroyers, I try to avoid getting closer than 2000m while at silent running and dead stop and keeping my nose pointed at them.

Steve

[Harald_Lange]

This is brilliant info, really helps. Good hunting kind sir! :yeah:

[Raticon]

Also remember to use the periscope very sparingly when in calm seas at day, dusk or dawn as even merchants can spot your periscope peeping up from the surface at short distances, making them start to zig-zag, making harder targets, while they are screaming in panic over the radio for the Royal Navy and/or the RAF to come and make your day miserable. Just a quick "up-pan the horizon-note bearings and distances-down"-maneuver.

Some merchants are (in the GWX-mod at least) "armed" with searchlights that will search the surface after your scope if they are somehow alarmed by your presence. Besides showing your poition to everyone withing several kilometers it will blind you and make aiming with guns or torpedoes difficult.

During the D-day operations, every soldier not assigned a task on the landing ships on their way trough the channel was ordered to stand watch for any periscopes and / or flashes from passing light in the scopes lenses, this eventually lead to some degree of panic among the ships as a floating piece of garbage, swimming seagulls or anything else passed as lurking submarines with scopes. This made the US and British navies place professional sailors as guards against scopes on the surface as inexperienced and nervous soldiers spotting something else caused unneccesary panic and disorientation aboard the large ships ferrying tanks and troops.

[Kapt Z]

The main reason for asking is that I'm constantly trying to increase my realism setting and things like this are, to me, still complete guesswork.

:salute:

Guesswork is the word my boy! Just like the real kaleuns had to guess.

There have been some good posts already about general tactics, but bottom line everytime you encounter a enemy ship, especially a warship, the word 'safe' no longer applies. They don't call it "going into harm's way" for nothing.

IMHO that's part of what makes this game so great. I've made plenty of convoy attacks both on the surface and submerged and each one is different. Sure, you learn what seems to work the best, but you just never know when it will all go wrong. That's what gets your blood pumping!!:up:

[flag4]

...i have this info written on the back of my lamenated Flag Recognition chart. i have no idea who it came from but it did come from this web site, this forum.

Visual Range.
(Him Spotting Me)

Clear Day: 10-15 km.
Rough Seas, Good Visability: 8-10km
Rough Seas, Bad Visability: 2-3km.

"make sure im barely able to see him
whilst flanking."

this is how its written on the back of my flag recog. chart. ive no idea how realistic it is or, if indeed, it can actually be applied in-game?

i have found now and again that i can get pretty close to a merchant on a clear day and for him not to go into evasive action, within a 1000meters?
though sometimes i will go free-cam and zip over to the merchant and see if i can see myself, if i cant i'll take a distance reading on my map and go with that distance untill i forget:haha:
(...middle age and all that)

but surely, in game, if i can see myself from the merchant i must be too close. but it is surprising how quickly you dissapear. i'll sometimes do this with my son - who's eyes are much better than mine. "look away" i say to him, then i free-cam out to the merchant - better results in bad weather! - it's surprising how even he can not spot my boat sometimes!!

...or his own for that matter!

[Dbledip]

Great information! Thanks! It never fails to amaze me what little trinkets of information provided by people in this community I will pickup to help me survive. :yeah: