GAAHHH!! December 23, 1942!

[maillemaker]

Didn't even make it to 1943 this time.

Massive convoy. About a day off of the coast of Spain. Huge, huge ships in this convoy. 3 Whale Factory Ships. At least two Ceramic Ocean Liners (14,000+ tons).

I made a perfect approach at night, flat seas. I put two into one Whale, two into another Whale, spun around and put my stern two into a Ceramic. All three sank. All torpedoes exploded.

Went deep, but they were on me like white on rice. 5 escorts pounding me. I went down to 200m, but the charges were raining all around me. Prior to this they never seemed to drop this deep. Now they were all around me. I got hit a few times causing damage, but no loss of hull integrity.

3 of the escorts left me, leaving only two. They kept at it. Suddenly, both my sonar and radio man are DEAD, and I have massive damage to the boat - 67% HI and dropping fast. I'm blowing like crazy but things keep cracking and popping and my hull integrity is dropping 10% every 15 seconds. I think it got down to about 20% at 180 meters when it crushed.

It was my 30th patrol. I was WEEKS into this campaign and had an absolute expert crew. Nobody fatigued anymore. GAH!

Back to 1939.

Steve

[Brag]

:nope::nope::nope: toom de doom.

[unterseemann]

Ouch, bad luck... sinking more than 30k grt in a single convoy attack at the end of 1942 was a big achievement but you paid it the hardest price... We'll remember your boat and crew.

But flat seas are not our friends as they make detection way too easy for escorts and once they start to pound you with depth charges or worse, hedgehogs... well, you know the story. I never attack convoys in flat seas past 1941, luckily weather is bad most of the time in my patrols!

[u crank]

To bad mate, that's a tough one to swallow. But yes attacking convoys from '43 on is dicey business at best. To many escorts with better Asdic and as unterseemann said flat seas are better for escorts. BDU should have given you a desk job. :haha:

Better luck next time maillemaker. :salute:

[Hinrich Schwab]

ASDIC can find you at over 200 meters in ideal conditions in the late war. BOLD dispensers and a codified escape plan are a must before attacking the convoy. BOLD 1 canisters really do not last long enough, but it is better than nothing. It gives you a chance. Even so, if the seas were perfectly calm, the odds were against you from the get-go. Just out of curiosity, what type of torpedoes did you use and what range did you engage from?

[Mittelwaechter]

Know your enemy.

For every bold released an other escort comes after you.
Deal with one watchdog as long as possible and let the others sail with the convoy. Finally they'll need some time to come close to support number one dealing with your first bold.
Your chance to sneak away.

After 8 to 10 attack runs your friend is short on stern rollers and shoots only with k-guns. Now let him pass directly over you - from bow to stern or vice versa if possible - to ensure the cans won't hit your bow or stern. Shortest shooting range for k-guns is 36 meters - that's half the length of a type VII u-boat.

(GWX)

[maillemaker]

what type of torpedoes did you use and what range did you engage from?

T3s. I was inside the outermost column of ships in the convoy. I hit the first whale factory ship on the opposite side of the convoy, perhaps 1500m away. Then I nailed the other two at 500m or less.

Steve

[Hinrich Schwab]

T3s. I was inside the outermost column of ships in the convoy. I hit the first whale factory ship on the opposite side of the convoy, perhaps 1500m away. Then I nailed the other two at 500m or less.

Steve

That explains how they got a good bead on you. The destroyers reverse- projected the torpedo course. You may have been better off calculating some high-risk long range shots to avoid the destroyer mob. I have done this before and the success rate for hits and kills are mixed, but destroyers are less of a problem if I am shooting between 4-6km.

The best you can do is take it as a lesson learned for your next career.

[vanjast]

When you have a hunting pack after you, you must play from the hydrophone position, keeping track of all boats.
Only one boat will attack at a time, and there will be one standing watch, pinging you.

I have mentioned this tactic about 2 years ago..
What you do is race for the 'standing watch' ship while the other is attacking you.... with any luck they'll ram each other, sink each other with DC's or just be put off from their attack.

I survived about 8 hours (real time) doing this, with 3 ships after me, escaping after I broke through their 'cordon', sneaking away silent running at 1-2 knots and about 200m+ depth . I was playing at 100%+ so had no idea what happened to the ships, but I could still hear them on the hydrophone , circling my last known spot 6 hours after escaping.

It was a total of about 16 hours until I broke the surface again.
:)

[maillemaker]

For every bold released an other escort comes after you.

Wait. What?!?

Are you saying that instead of masking my position releasing Bolds simply draws more escorts from the convoy to come search for me?!?! What a disaster?


I remember the bug which was present on stock SH3 multiplayer games. You could litteraly spook the destroyer that is on attack run after you, by releasing BOLD in very close range from destroyer. The effect was that DD stopped and reversed very quickly. Not sure already wether your boat had to be in periscope depth or any depth at all, but this was common used trick

Yes, I have used this before. If a DD is chasing you and you are at periscope depth, drop a bold, and the DD will stop on top of it, listening to it. You can then nail him with a torp.

I decided to give myself a do-over. I had a save game just after the radio contact of the convoy, but before contact. So I reloaded and tried again.

Same result. But this time after I first took some damage, I came to periscope depth and sank 3 of the escorts with magnetic torpedoes shot down their throats. Then I surfaced and ran from the last escort that was coming in to help. I got away at 19 knots.

My next mission I loaded up with all FAT steamers. I attacked my next convoy from 8000m. I scored hits and the FATs never even had to track to do it. The destroyers never even came close to getting a lock on my position. I got away scott-free.

So my new rule is, after mid 1942 no attacks at less than 5000m Preferably 8000m.

Steve

[Mittelwaechter]

Take it this way: if you release a bold there seems to be a second U-Boot suddenly - of course the escort calls for support.

Caught surfaced by a single DD?
A bold covers your signal, if you keep it in a direct line between an incoming DD and your stern (at periscope depth). You can power up to leave the last known diving area quickly, until the DD starts ziggin' or passes the bold.

[Raticon]

I started in '39 and have slugged my way to Jan '41 now with my shiny new VIIC, traded to me in exchange for the II-D. I am allready starting to notice the escorts getting tougher, bolder and, most noticeable of all, not entirely blind all the time like '39 and early '40. Back then i could just steam into the middle of a convoy at full speed, calmly place my torps into the fattest ships i could see and then gracefully sail away in peace and serenity, now i must actually start to plan approaches, escape routes and always dive to at least 150m to escape the furious DD's...

What you are writing here is really chocking and startling me badly... I am very bad at long-range engagements, preferring 2000m as the farthest distance i even try to torpedo something from, and by reading this i realize that the golden days are soon over and i must practice hard on my 2000m+ aim. And as the DD's in early '41 isn't tough enough, you are telling me i have to push 200m+ in a dive and manouver like a parkour-runner trough the inner city to get away after '41? I am having a hard time allready! Time for retirement much? :-P

[maillemaker]

you are telling me i have to push 200m+ in a dive and manouver like a parkour-runner trough the inner city to get away after '41? I am having a hard time allready! Time for retirement much?

I was pushing 220m without damage to my type IXC, but it was not enough to evade detection at night with calm seas, December 23, 1942.

They were pinging me left right and center.

Steve

[Hinrich Schwab]

As it may look weird, it is indeed so in SH3, I never understood why ?

BOLDS were used to cover the boat from ASDIC pings by releasing mass of bubbles which absorbed sound waves, without reflecting any echoes.

But in SH3, BOLDS act like another echo for destroyer which pings you, so then another destroyer is being invited to the party.. In my experience I could retract all of the escorts from the convoy with simply releasing BOLDS. :nope:

I remember the bug which was present on stock SH3 multiplayer games. You could litteraly spook the destroyer that is on attack run after you, by releasing BOLD in very close range from destroyer. The effect was that DD stopped and reversed very quickly. Not sure already wether your boat had to be in periscope depth or any depth at all, but this was common used trick :)

From what I have observed in 3 and 4, this is the case. A well-planned, well-timed BOLD drop can sucker and entire escort screen away from its posts under the right circumstances, leaving the convoy exposed. Likewise, the destroyers seem to follow the strongest signal, so if the BOLD is shallow enough compared to your relative depth, destroyers tend to favor it for rather obvious reasons. The big challenge is finding the maneuvering "hole" in the attack cordon while presenting the narrowest profile. I have escaped many a nasty attack by turning towards destroyers at certain points in its attack run, as insane as that sounds.

[vanjast]

SH3 AI may look stupid enough, but not that stupid to ram each other. Don't spread disinformation :)
I gather you haven't been around long enough to see this :)

Say you're hunted by 4 destroyers, they all cruising around and ALL pinging, you don't have to hear ping sounds from all 4 at once since they are cruising around you. Destroyer will stop or hit reverse if there's a collision alert with other ship.
As I said, sit on the Hydrophone station and you'll pick this all up... it's not rocket science...

[TarJak]

Your main mistake was trying to be greedy. Best bet is to dive fast as soon as you fire your main salvo. I choose between forward or stern tube shots before I make the shot and always dive at full speed or flank to over 200m as soon as I fire turning starboard or port at 10deg rudder to at least 40deg from the firing path, depending on where the nearest escort is. This is the only way to put any distance between you and your firing datum.

[maillemaker]

NEVER EVER saw destroyers ram each other or any other ship ramming each other. One and only object that can be rammed by hostile ships are U-BOATS!

I agree. I've been playing this game for years now, and I've never seen two ships ram each other. They always take evasive action.

Actually, that's not entirely true. If you are running close beside a friendly you can sometimes steer into them without them having time to avoid you.

But I've never seen two AI ships ram each other.

Now they will ram themselves into sea walls or the shore, and before GWX3 I used to see them depth charge themselves all the time.

What should I pick up ? short diesel shut down of destroyers ? They do that when hunting in groups, or sometimes occasionally, but very briefly, however they never make full stops (if not damaged) somewhere nearby just to ping or listen via hydrophones. This is an old myth to increase immersion feeling. Some prefer to imagine things that do not exist in game just for immersion factor.

I don't know what the AI is actually doing, but I have seen a group of DDs depth charging me and one will "sit still" while the others are busy DCing me. Their props will "twitch", going back and forth from forward to reverse - obviously the AI is trying to "station keep" the DD dead in the water. I don't know what the ship is actually doing, though. It may be just the AI delaying its attack run until the other ships clear out of its path.

Steve

[maillemaker]

Your main mistake was trying to be greedy. Best bet is to dive fast as soon as you fire your main salvo. I choose between forward or stern tube shots before I make the shot and always dive at full speed or flank to over 200m as soon as I fire turning starboard or port at 10deg rudder to at least 40deg from the firing path, depending on where the nearest escort is. This is the only way to put any distance between you and your firing datum.

No, I think the problem is that ASDIC has gotten too good for clear weather conditions by December 1942.

In my first attack, I was greedy. I disengaged silent running and sent my torpedo crews forward so that as soon as I fired they would commence loading. My hope was to get off another shot before I had to dive. This has worked for me in the past. Normally I can stay in the columns of the fleet long enough to reload one or even two more shots before diving.

But this time the lead escort was inside the fleet before I could even reload one, so I dove. But I forgot to return to silent running until I hit 200m, so they heard me all the way down.

But I gave myself a do-over, and re-attacked the convoy staying in silent running, and I dove immediately after firing my last torpedo. They still found me at 220m and were on top of me until I surfaced at attacked and sank 3 escorts and surfaced and ran at flank speed away from another.

I believe that by December 23, 1942, ASDIC and escort experience has improved to where in good weather depth is no longer enough protection. However, I was just reading that the Type VIIC/41 (I think?) has a much higher maximum depth rating, so when it becomes available I will try it and so be able to go deeper.

Anyway, beyond mid '42 I will not attack closer than 5000m again. I will switch to steamers exclusively for long range night attack, FATs if I can afford them.

Steve