Need some aircraft ID help

[Subnuts]

Was walking back home from work today, and saw an unusual aircraft flying overhead that I couldn't recognize. I wasn't thinking, and forgot to take my camera out of my coat pocket. It had a straight wing with straight wingtips and no dihedral, twin propeller-driven engines, a double tailfin, a fairly tubby fuselage, and was painted overall green. I immediately assumed that it was a B-25 headed to Bradley International Airport, but it turns out the B-25 had rounded wingtips and larger engines.

Now, I'm not really up on my civilian aircraft, so it might have been an everyday cargo plane I've never seen before. However, I'm have a hard time pinning down what type it could have been. It looked so much like a B-25, and there are apparently dozens of still-flying examples, but the shape of the wings were slightly different from those of a B-25. Anybody have any idea exactly what I saw? I can't identify it, so it must have been a UFO. :rotfl2:

[U570]

It could be an early variant of the B-25, they had smaller engines and different wingtips :06::hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

How big was it? High wings or low wings? Radial or in-line engines?

Something like this?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/beech.jpg


Or this?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/boxcar.jpg

[tater]

Yeah, a PV-2 is a possibility, but overall OD (or green) is kinda odd.

[CaptainHaplo]

The first prototype of the B25 was the NA40 - which had rounded wingtips:http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/na_na-40.jpg

The next was the NA-40B, or NA-42 (different sources disagree on it). No pictures I could find. It was lost in a crash. A further refinement was the NA-62, which was the final basis for the production model.

If the only distinctive difference between a "classic" B25 and your bird were the wingtips and engines, I would suspect that it was a B25 with "aftermarket" engines rated similiarly and with a slightly modified wing. Wouldn't be the first warbird who someone did a little "tinkering" on.

Personally, I always preferred the B-26 Marauder....

[MH]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5245/5256843168_89cec322d8_o.jpg

[GoldenRivet]

@ Subnuts... MH has probably found your culprit.

[tater]

Some PV-2s had the clipped wings as well. they are both Lockheeds, and very similar.

[tater]

Could also be an AT-11, actually.

http://www.courtesyaircraft.com/Inventory%20Images/N214CR%20AT-11%20Images/BeechSampler%20(2)_Page_08.jpg

(which is a slightly different version of the first plane posted above in post 3 by SS.)

[Stealhead]

I second Sailor Steve the "tubby" fuselage and straight wings tips and twin tail makes me think first of a C-119.Hard to say though the description is limited and there are a number of planes that could fit.The fairly tubby bit makes me think C-119 and they where painted in the South East Asia pattern during Nam someone could have easily decided to paint one OD green though according to a website I found the only flying examples in the US are in Alaska.Another possible match is the C-123 it has only a single tail but fits the general description it could also have been a C-8 Buffalo another single tail but generally fitting the description.

[USS Drum]

He may have seen a WWII aircraft that was part of the RAF.

[Sailor Steve]

Which one? Do you have an example to show him?

[USS Drum]

Well no but a lot of WWII British aircraft had the two tail fins.

[Sailor Steve]

That doesn't help. He's trying to identify the one he saw. Showing pictures may not get the right one, but suggesting that it might be British is actually counterproductive. A lot of French airplanes had twin tails too.

[Stealhead]

Not all that many and most of them where RAF versions of various Lockheed designs which have already been posted. You have the Lancaster and Handley-Page Hailfax both of which have four engines.As Sailor Steve said that is a bit counter productive may as well mention the A-10 and P-38.

It was most likely a version of a Lockheed Ventura most where flown by the Navy
though it was also used by the USAAF as a trainer as well which would explain the OD camouflage all Allied users as well as the Navy used something other than pure OD green.Thinking about it this is most likely the plane there are quite a few still flying in the US.In USAAF guise it was known as the B-37 some Ventura IIs where also used by the USAAF. They would have flown in an OD green paint scheme also seeing as they all flew stateside most of them survived the war and where useful for private use ensuring their survival.Also the OP admits that he is not up on civil aircraft which if you are not familiar with would be likely confused for something else on a quick viewing.It might also have been a Beechcraft Model 18 the civil version of the previously mentioned AT-11.

If the plane is local the OP has a good chance of seeing it again. There are two grass airfields near my house and I know some rather rare planes thanks to folks keeping theirs at one of them.One after a few quick views I thought was a PBY Catalina I live in FL so flying boats and float planes are common turns out it was an Albatross an old USAF Air Rescue one as it is an amphibian I saw it in front of its hanger one day(the owner has it painted in a Navy scheme though).The other is a Yak-18 the pilot is quite skilled he will do loops and rolls most times when he flys it.Well maybe the Yak is not rare but you see many times more Cessnas or Piper Cubs round here than Yaks.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

The other is a Yak-18 the pilot is quite skilled he will do loops and rolls most times when he flys it.Well maybe the Yak is not rare but you see many times more Cessnas or Piper Cubs round here than Yaks.Its not very common either. Wiki article says that there are 40 aircraft still in existence and of those 6 (3 in USA, 3 in Europe) are in flying condition and four in restoration process. Don't know how upto date that info is though.

[Stealhead]

Well I know one thing for sure the Yak-18 is a very loud aircraft indeed taking into consideration its size.I don't know civil aircraft as as well as military but I was in the USAF and worked on the flight most everyday and I would still rank the Yak-18 as one of the louder planes I have seen er heard.Another really loud aircraft the old C-141s those things where much louder than any other cargo aircraft in the USAF you where supposed to wear ear plugs and ear phones and still the C-141 seemed loud to me.

Strange how you get to know engine sounds in my career the bases I was at I was either around A-10s or heavy cargo planes both of which use turbofans and they all do have their distinctive sounds the older KC-135s for example sound different than the newer R(the Rs have different engines) model ones and C-17s sound different than C-5s.I got to where I could know that something different was coming by hearing it before I saw it.Like the Bone(If you dont know what that is you dont need to know but you better fear it;)) I heard one coming down the taxiway before I saw it and knew it was not a cargo plane it had some sort of electrical trouble and landed at our base.Another time I heard two German MiG-29s the sound they make is very different from western turbines.Ever heard a P-51 or a Spitfire with the same Merlin engine?Very unique sound.I will always miss the visceral experience of a military flight line never the same day twice.We used to say "I love the smell of JP-8 in the morning." as joke on Apocalypse Now.

[tater]

The AT-11 is a beechcraft 18, and apparently there are over 200 still flying.

There are many lockheeds of similar types flying (ventura, model 18, hudson, pv-1, pv-2, etc). Some variants had squared wingtips, and I think some may have had this alteration done after the war to improve performance.

Both seem possible since there are many flyable.

[Sailor Steve]

The problem we have now is that we can offer suggestions and pictures 'til the cows come home, and unless Subnuts comes back and looks at them it's no help at all. He might as well not have asked.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Hey Steve, Subnuts posted this thread yesterday. He may not have time to hang in this loony bin all the time. :DL

[TLAM Strike]

Hey Steve, Subnuts posted this thread yesterday. He may not have time to hang in this loony bin all the time. :DL

We got to start locking the doors of the asylum at night; too many are escaping... :03:

[Stealhead]

Maybe he figured it would take a day or so to first become a discussion about
Chinese Iranian missiles, truth about Newt Gingrich, Muppet's are anti oil, Mitt Romney/Ron Paul ticket, ID plane thread.

[Sailor Steve]

Hey Steve, Subnuts posted this thread yesterday. He may not have time to hang in this loony bin all the time. :DL
No, it's been two days. Seems like weeks, though.


Maybe I am getting senile. :doh:

[Stealhead]

Maybe it was a UFO like Subnuts jokingly posted and it later came back and abducted him and don't all those alien abduction victims claim being unable to explain several hours of missing time(Used to happen to me my 20 something days only booze was the culprit) .:hmmm: :haha:

[CaptainHaplo]

Strange how you get to know engine sounds.

Not so much on engine sounds, but I can tell you how many blades a helo has by the sound - and if its a 2 or 4 blade main I can tell you if its out of balance or if the pilot is overtorquing the blades. Just some sounds you learn to tell apart.....

[Stealhead]

Helicopters defiantly have the distinct rotor sounds I know that the more blades generally the less nose made unless you hearing a Sea Stallion.We get alot of Sea Hawks I assume coming out of NAS Jacksonville and a good amount of Black Hawks as well in my area.The over torquing you mention I saw a 407 pulling a water bag out of the lake near my house and dumping on this fire on shore near the 407 that pilot was really good the way he would come in and drop the bag into the water and pull back up swing round and fly over the fire and drop the load he really knew the limits of his 407.

I did once see a much more rare MH-47 which are only flown by the Night Stalkers and this thing was really moving as well maybe 100ft above the pines saw them for just a few days and they where gone I could see the radar and refueling boom and one of the crew chiefs but sans minigun he waved at me the one time I saw them during the day time.even regular CH-47s have to slow down for AH-64s to keep up.

Interesting thing was this was about 3 or 4 months before the Seal Team did the raid the reaction force that was their back up flew in MH-47s and waited for the call at another location.I wonder if perhaps this was training for that mission I bet they where flying from some place in Ga. and flying a flight plan similar to the one they where going to fly on the mission.I say this because I know they did several dry runs for the Son Toy raid during Vietnam by flying from one base to an area on Eglin AFB to simulate the flight from Thailand to North Vietnam.It would have made alot of sense to pull of several dry runs for the Bin Laden killing mission here in the states where it would not have been noticed.SAC crews also did the same thing all the time over the US to simulate flying over the pole to the USSR practice makes perfect.