Shafia family found guilty for "honor" killings

[the_tyrant]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16783354

Three members of an Afghan immigrant family in Canada have been convicted of murdering four female relatives in a so-called "honour" killing.



this kind of hit home a bit too close for comfort:shifty:
Especially considering that many of my friends have similar conflicts with their parents


Well at least they are finally convicted:zzz:

[Randomizer]

CBC's coverage is more detailed.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/01/29/shafia-sunday.htmll

I like that the deliberation did not take much longer than the judge's charge to the jury. Life with no parole prospects for 25-years, hopefully the case won't be appealed for years.

[Sailor Steve]

Sometimes it's hard to understand the depths people will sink to when they're convinced they're right.

[BossMark]

Sometimes it's hard to understand the depths people will sink to when they're convinced they're right.
I couldnt agree more, and I will always say in cases like these or any murderer that they should pay with their own lives!!!!

[Krauter]

Sometimes it's hard to understand the depths people will sink to when they're convinced they're right.

Makes me think of a story my dad told me when I was younger.

Being a Paramedic he was out doing a call on a young child who had apparently stopped breathing and needed help. When they got there it was too late to help the kid, so while checking out the baby they found marks on its neck. After questioning the father, who was a Chinese immigrant as to what happened, he simply said, "It was a girl, so we got rid of it". My dad was completely flabbergasted (he said this was about a year after my sister was born..) that this man could so easily come clean about this and not seem to show any remorse. After calling the police and finishing his reports and everything, he figured out the reasoning behind why the father had killed this baby girl. (Chinese population control methods..)

He said that this was probably one of the most disturbing childrens cases he'd ever answered.

[Tribesman]

he figured out the reasoning behind why the father had killed this baby girl. (Chinese population control methods..)

Or traditional marriage customs, getting rid of females is still common in some countries that still follow the old ways of marriage.

[tater]

Fundie religious beliefs often result in women as chattel, and this is an inevitable consequence of that kind of idiotic belief system.

[Platapus]

Sometimes it's hard to understand the depths people will sink to when they're convinced they're right.

It is when people are so solidly convinced that they way of thinking is right, that people become dangerous.

[Stealhead]

One part that I find odd is that the Afghans were still so fundamentalist maybe it is different in Canada but the overwhelming majority of US Afghan immigrants come to US because they wanted to live life free of such fundamentalism.

There is a group of Afghans in my area that are all related they own and run couple of pizza restaurants two brothers came here in the early 80s to get away from the war then.You would not know that they came from Afghanistan unless you knew them personally they wear regular clothes and the young daughters that often work at the counter look just like and dress like any other teenage kids.I guess there are always are nut cases though.

[Tribesman]

One part that I find odd is that the Afghans were still so fundamentalist maybe it is different in Canada but the overwhelming majority of US Afghan immigrants come to US because they wanted to live life free of such fundamentalism.

Is it fundamentalist?
More like outdated but long standing social patriarchy combined with the silly notion of family reputation in the clan system.

[u crank]

One part that I find odd is that the Afghans were still so fundamentalist maybe it is different in Canada but the overwhelming majority of US Afghan immigrants come to US because they wanted to live life free of such fundamentalism.

There is a group of Afghans in my area that are all related they own and run couple of pizza restaurants two brothers came here in the early 80s to get away from the war then.You would not know that they came from Afghanistan unless you knew them personally they wear regular clothes and the young daughters that often work at the counter look just like and dress like any other teenage kids.I guess there are always are nut cases though.

I think it is different in Canada. Here we have something called Multiculturalism. Other countries in the West have some forms of it, but here it is Government policy with a Cabinet Minister and a department. It was introduced by Pierre Trudeau and passed in parliament in 1988. The whole idea of course is to encourage new immigrants to celebrate their cultural diversity. I'm guessing this, honour killing, isn't what they had in mind. This isn't the first time it's happened here either. It's the risk every country runs in allowing immigrants from countries with less desirable 'traditions'. They also bring their disputes. The Air India bombing, Canada's worst mass murder, was carried out by a Sikh militant group Babbar Khalsa based in Canada. It could have been worse. a second bomb went off at the Narita Airport in Japan before it could be placed on another Air India flight.

[Krauter]

I think it is different in Canada. Here we have something called Multiculturalism. Other countries in the West have some forms of it, but here it is Government policy with a Cabinet Minister and a department. It was introduced by Pierre Trudeau and passed in parliament in 1988. The whole idea of course is to encourage new immigrants to celebrate their cultural diversity. I'm guessing this, honour killing, isn't what they had in mind. This isn't the first time it's happened here either. It's the risk every country runs in allowing immigrants from countries with less desirable 'traditions'. They also bring their disputes. The Air India bombing, Canada's worst mass murder, was carried out by a Sikh militant group Babbar Khalsa based in Canada. It could have been worse. a second bomb went off at the Narita Airport in Japan before it could be placed on another Air India flight.

This,

One thing that always kind of bothered me about the Canadian way of taking in immigrants is that they don't make it clear, or the immigrants just aren't taking it in, that the way you lived in, say Afghanistan, is completely different then how you live here.

Yes, please do bring in your religion and your customs, but please, if they don't pass our laws then don't bring them/do them here. I can understand that some people see this as "discriminating" or "hating" on peoples customs and religions. But if they really do hate hearing it so much, go back from where they came from so they can do that with others who do the same.

[u crank]

This,

One thing that always kind of bothered me about the Canadian way of taking in immigrants is that they don't make it clear, or the immigrants just aren't taking it in, that the way you lived in, say Afghanistan, is completely different then how you live here.

Yes, please do bring in your religion and your customs, but please, if they don't pass our laws then don't bring them/do them here. I can understand that some people see this as "discriminating" or "hating" on peoples customs and religions. But if they really do hate hearing it so much, go back from where they came from so they can do that with others who do the same.

No argument here my friend. I try to put myself in their position. If I could leave a place like Afghanistan and come to the freedom and safety of this country I'd try to adapt. This guy, Shaffai has been here since 2007, and left Afghanistan in 1992. It's a sad story.Those poor girls lived in fear for a long time.

I also agree with Tribesman, this has little to do with religion. These are tribal customs dating back to before the beginning of major religions. Cell phones and automatic weapons don't change old customs.

[soopaman2]

http://www.economist.com/node/18651512

Article is well over a year old but backs up the point I wish to make.

Too many boys to too few girls.

Their laws are manufacturing their own eventual destruction.

So let them...It is the choice the people want, if they didn't you would see more Tiennemen square events.

The people deserve what they allow their government to do (Hitler said the same thing, yes I know, but they did elect him)...

Which is why I support the occupy movements across the US.
Some people just don't bend over and moan in pleasure like some others, while they get raped. Some of us actually seek justice for the crimes...

[the_tyrant]

http://www.economist.com/node/18651512

Article is well over a year old but backs up the point I wish to make.

Too many boys to too few girls.

Their laws are manufacturing their own eventual destruction.

So let them...It is the choice the people want, if they didn't you would see more Tiennemen square events.

The people deserve what they allow their government to do (Hitler said the same thing, yes I know, but they did elect him)...

Which is why I support the occupy movements across the US.
Some people just don't bend over and moan in pleasure like some others, while they get raped. Some of us actually seek justice for the crimes...

You know how damn hard it is to get laid in china?
No seriously, it is a big problem for 20-30 year olds in china

You see, on paper, the male to female ratio is something like 51:49
but the thing is, young men from all around the country move to the big cities to find work, young women are less likely to do so

It is estimated that the male to female ratio in cities like Beijing for 20-30 year olds are almost 2:1

[Randomizer]

Update with no surprises, the appeals process has started. Apparently some of the evidence that indicated premeditation was 'prejudicial' to the murderers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/01/31/shafia-appeal-murder.html

Also the Crown's expert witness on honour killings in certain cultures was tainted because she had never done field work in Afghanistan.

And of course the lawyers stand to make buckets of money dragging the appeals process out for the next five or ten years.