VIIB or save for the VIIC?

[Raticon]

Hello again!

I wrote earlier (http://174.123.69.202/%7Esubsimc/radioroom/showthread.php?t=191844) about my crazy experiences with the II-D outside of Dunkerque, totalling 3 ships of 10k+ freighters after the 4th CTD and reload, turning out different results each time... After my earlier run in February when i sank the Royal Oak Battleship in the channel gave me ~1000 renown, and this madness run in Dunkerque gave me about 1200 with a few other patrols giving me something around 100 and 200, now it's June 1940 and as a boat in the 1st Flotilla i can now choose 2 U-boats to upgrade to, as i am quitefed up with the II-D for now after 12 patrols... Don't get me wrong, it's an awful fun boat to play since you have to think over every shot of torpedo very carefully and always try to avoid much about anything, something that boat handles really well...

SO... To the point you old rambler!

I have about ~2600 renown as of now, i have the choice of the Type VIIB for 2500 right now, or the VIIC after i get those extra ~400 Renown. Should i take the B now or get some more renown and fetch the C ?, Only differences i can se is that the C will get some more powerful conning towers later on with the following option to bring more surface ordnance with her, is there any other plusses to this? I have played the VII-classes long ago but i forgot about them when i dug up this game again.

In the long run i aim for an IX, as i have never sailed in one in this game before. Does the choice of VII-boat make it easier or harder for me to reach this goal? Do i have to transfer to another fleet to get the IX later on? :)

EDIT: As stated in my earlier thread i am using GWX 3.0 with another small assortment of mods, nothing that changes the boats themselves more than GWX though.

[Randomizer]

Not entirely sure what you're getting at but $0.02 worth of opinion says stick with the plan and go for the Type IX. Few commanders were captains of all three main types, an exception being Fritz-Julius Lemp who commanded a IIA in peacetime but already had the Type VIIA U-30 when the war broke out and later got the Type IXB U-110. A review of careers over at uboat.net (http://www.uboat.net/index.html) indicates that historically commanding (as opposed to serving on) all three types was quite rare. You probably don't want to get your IX too late in the war so you can exploit all those remote objectives like America's east coast in early '42.

Good Hunting.

[Raticon]

I have to admit i entirely missed out on the part with the IX being quite the costly submarine, and buying a VIIB now and thus "start out again" with just 100 Renown trying to get the XI before May '45 will be tough...

I will go for some more patrols in the II-D and ponder your suggestion, i have read trough the forums for threads that cover the whole XI vs VII-debate so i'm quite prepared for the choice when it comes.

But if i choose to go for a VII-class, is VIIB the way to go now or should i save up for the VIIC or it's siblings 41 and 42 later? Is there any major differences between the B and C like with the II-classes A and D-types or is it merely cosmetical?

[Randomizer]

In game terms the difference between a VIIB and VIIC are mostly in the available upgrades although each type has their vocal champions. Had I a choice I would probably skip the B and go straight to the C but to some that smacks of heresy.

I like all three types provided one patrols using the boat's strengths as each has their favourite tactical niche. Sending a VII to a IX's job (or vice-versa) is asking for trouble and frustration. II's are creatures of the coasts and shallows as you seem to have demonstrated so well, or the Black Sea...

I'm a late war GWX'er and like to take a Type VIIC snorkel boat hunting in and around the west coast of the UK in the final 10-months of the war. Just for a change though, I am going to the Gulf of the Saint Lawrence, Summer of 1944, in a Type IXC/40 (U-1221), my first snorkel patrol in that type with the Realism and Gameplay Related Fixes applied.

Realism and Gameplay-related hardcode fixes thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=174225)

Good Hunting

[TDK1044]

I'm running the VIIB. I'm very happy with the way the sub performs. I will upgrade to the VIIC at some point, but I'm not in any hurry. I have no desire to be in a IX. :)

[RConch]

Save and buy the VIIC.
Quick to dive-lots of add-ons if you survive for them.
For me a IX is a deathtrap later in the war-it is just too big. Just my opinion.:)

[Kapt Z]

You say your present career is in June 1940? I think the earliest you can get a VIIC is Sept 40 with the 7th flotilla. At this point I would wait until then and take the C model. That way that boat can take you farther with the upgrade advantages.

To my mind the VIIB is a great boat for 39-41, but after that you just run out of upgrade ability.

[Raticon]

Yes, present career started in Aug 39 and i have made it into June 1940. I am using GWX and no bonuses for completing patrols other than the ships you sink, hence i have managed to sing almost 100k total of shipping in my II-D but still i linger on with - presently - 2900 Renown.

If you check the techtree i could lay low for a while, sink just a few more and thus get 3000 Renown for the VIIC when it arrives in the autumn.

I transferred to the 2nd Flotilla to make sure i have the whole selection ready when the day comes, i thought that this flotilla will consider me running a II-D boat and give me some easy patrols from Lorient (yes, made it there in one piece) but alas, no... They imagine that they can send me far off to the african coast in this tin-can... :yeah: or no... So back to the 1st Flotilla it is and that drudging travel back to Kiel that follows with it.

Here i have the options of the VIIB too, but soon the VIIC. I have also considered what Randomizer said about getting the IX rather early so i have time to use it before the war ends... So tough decision :(

Sure, i have the option of creating another career, edit the Deltarenown to 7600 and get the IX and run 2 parallel careers but that's not fun at all, with the merits that i currently have in this career (devastated Dunkerque in a II-D, sank the Royal Oak in the same boat, took down a huge liner...) and it just would not feel right.

I have used the VII class earlier when i played this game, but as stated above i have forgotten most of it's characters and the IX i have never even played in a career.

Right now i'm leaning towards 3 choices, with various degrees of madness in them:

1. VIIC now, we'll se what happens.
Simple enough. I run 2 patrols more in this thing and get the last 100-ish renown and get the darn VIIC. We'll se if i like it so much i'll keep it or try to get the IX late in the war, even though you guys said it will be suicide ;)

2. Stick with the "Pig" and get the IX when you can
Sticking with the II-D until i get thise 4500 Renown missing... Considering i have pretty much used up all my luck until now this doesn't seem feasible, and 5 torpedoes is seriously getting a bit too small in the age of grand convoys. Diesel reserve is no problem though as i can run 2 runs around the british isles and still got fuel to spare if i'm tactical... But still, 2 or so more years in this tub...

3. Get the VIIC and forget about the IX for now...
Get the VIIC and forget about the ocean liner-sub for now. Spend all coming Renown on upgrades for the VIIC to keep it up to date.

All these scenarios require i change strategy a "bit", 15 patrols around the british coast has made me learn all the sweet spots and also learned me how to deal with aircraft and ASW-trawlers pretty good, but going out the oceans will make me into a newbie yet again. Regardless of what i choose, the II-D can't fare much longer as the war gets more bitter and hardcore.

[Jimbuna]

I much prefer the IX but if I'm in a VII I prefer the C....more upgrades.

[Red Heat]

Full agree, Jim... :)

[Raticon]

Just a small update on how it's been so far:

I got the VIIC for that career for now. Haven't done anything serious in the way of patrolling yet though, but i did tinker with Commander so i could keep my old name, the U-4, just because that name makes me all warm and fuzzy inside when i think of all our adventures... The pig on the conning tower get's to come along too, as the Royal Navy now will have to learn the hard way that if you don't get rid of small, cute piglets when they are young and weak you will later have to deal with large, fat, angry boars! :cool:

I told Bdu to make my old II-D into a glassed in memorial in the style of our old "Vasa" ship we have here in Sweden to display how true heroism and dashing bravery looks like! I spent all of my renown on that one boat in the beginning. Now with the VII-C, the little i had left i completed my crew with some more experienced guys, i don't want any random bilge-rat to just enter the hull of a hero-ship and spoil a good hunt by dropping a toolbox, accidentally turning on the grammophone or panic and scream in terror during convoychasing, ruining an otherwise wonderful trip and making it into a crash-diving, pinging, depthcharging hell worse than a weekend-visit to your in-laws... Reports about this VII-C and it's adventures will follow in the appropriate thread! :salute:

For reference on the IX i "cheated" a little bit by creating a new profile starting in December 1939 with the IX-B at the 2nd flotilla "Saltzwedel", to get the feeling if it's a good choice later on with my main career... and boy is she a beast! It's like the HMS Aquitania under the sea! Love the 105mm gun that blasts lesser ships into oblivion, but the 37mm Flak seriously need an improvement to it's sound... Will tend to that later. Dive time is an issue though, as you always have to be prepared in advance for what's going to happen. With the VII and II-classes you can take things as they happen as your boat is quick enough to dive and manouver as fast as the enemy acts (almost). A lot more sneaking and planning then... But that's ok when you have the ability thunder trough the storming waves at 17 knots and that stupid Flower Corvette chasing you only makes 12 and that with almost tipping over in the storms! A more thorough report will follow later, naturally i will spice it with some flavor. The IX gets the conning-tower symbol of a polar bear. The Pig and the Bear's marvellous adventures across the european seas and atlantic! Don't miss it! :|\\

If you still want to give me advice, i would like to know more about that big, fat conning tower that the VIIC get's later on... Is it really worth it? I mean, aircover and enemy merchants get fatter ordnance later on and is it a good idea to pick badder guns to bring with you out to sea with those odds? What does the coating do, shields agains sonarpings?

[flag4]

Type V11c every time...

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/897/u995typev11c.jpg

...sexy beast :yep:

[Missing Name]

Just look at my sig.

It's my goal to have a career last long enough for me to get a IXC/40. No such luck in two years of playing...

[maillemaker]

I go to the Type IX as fast as I can. With luck, you can get one before the merchants start carrying guns, and if you torpedo the escorts you can lay waste to entire convoys with the big gun on the Type IX boats. Unrealistic but very satisfying to annihilate an entire convoy single-handedly.

I, too, suspect that it may be wise to switch back to a Type VII later in the war. The Type IX is slow to dive and slower to maneuver. Also it is larger which might make it easier for hedgehogs to find their mark.

Steve