What is the speed of the G7a in Sh5?

[jason210]

What is the speed of the G7a in Sh5? In the game info the speed is given as 44-40-30.

I guess that means three different settings but I read on Wiki that the 44 kt setting was only used by torpedo boats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G7a_torpedo

That would make the Fast setting for U-boats 40 kts. However, my manual solutions are consistently missing their targets by passing the bow a few metres in front. It could be that the target is slowing down in the last few seconds before impact (having spotted the wake of the torpedo) or it could be that the torpedo's are going faster than I think. Of course it could be that my calculations are missing something. I need to know which, so if anyone knows for certain their speed please let me know.

Cheers
Jason

[Hinrich Schwab]

If your manual solutions are missing, it may be because of estimation errors. If you are not running the Torpedo Skill Speed Fix mod, the torpedo speed boost from the Torpedoman's broken skills will always cause this overshoot problem. Another possible issue is aspect change in the target. If the target zig-zags or makes a course change, the speed drop during its maneuver may result in a similar overshoot situation. More likely than not, it is probably the broken Torpedoman skills.

[jason210]

As I said, the target could be slowing down if the torpedo wake is spotted. That's why I need to to check first if there are any issues with the torpedos or torpedo speeds. What is this torpedo speed fix? I have several mods already installed, and perhaps the fix has been integrated into one of these?

Accurate German Flags
Capthelms SH5 Audio Mod
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
Equip_Upgrades_Fix_1_4_AFFOE_151
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2
FX_Update_0_0_19_ByTheDarkWraith
Dynamic Environment SH5 Sounds V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (normal ) V2.1
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional louder engine sounds
NewUIs_TDC_6_9_0_ByTheDarkWraith
OPEN HORIZONS II_full v1.6
TDW_Mines_Subnets_Detectable_in_hydro (OH II v1.6)

Since the shots are manual then the Torpedo man shouldn't be affecting anything. I use a speed of 40 kts in my calculation, but they appear to doing a little faster. Perhaps they are set to 44? At 44 knots they are hitting the target almost spot on over a range of 3000m

[Commander Mysenses]

Since the shots are manual then the Torpedo man shouldn't be affecting anything. I use a speed of 40 kts in my calculation, but they appear to doing a little faster.
If you have increased the torpedo man's skills, but not installed "Torpedo Skill Speed Fix" then all eels will go faster than they should and your solutions will be screwed up (manual or auto). The only options are, to not upgrade the torpedo man's skills, or install the mod to fix it.
(not sure what the devs were thinking when they did that!!)

[jason210]

I see...

I had indeed moved the skill to increase loading time. As far as I know I have not added any mod to fix torpedo speeds - don't know if that fix is included in any of the mods installed in my list.

Is it better not to change the crew skills, then, as it seems to give them and the sub unrealistic attributes. Incidently, I can't find that fix anywhere. Could you help me with that?

Cheers
jason

[jason210]

Ok, since no-one has said what speed these eels should be doing, I have done some tests in SH5 with the G7a set on "Fast". The torpedo crew skill was set to neutral.

I fired a G7a torpedo and timed it for 3 minutes. I repeated this four times.

Each time I got a consistent result. After 3 minutes the torpedo covered 4050 metres. This gives a speed of 43.2 Knots.

This speed is quite close to the torpedo's maximum speed of 44kts. Also, if I use this speed in my manual solutions, the torpedos are hitting more or less spot on, even over a distance of 4000 metres.

[Commander Mysenses]

Is it better not to change the crew skills, then, as it seems to give them and the sub unrealistic attributes.
You might want to look at these,
[REL] No magic skills (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164996&highlight=no+magic+skills)

[REL] SAS special abilities simplified (SH5) (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=187552&highlight=skills)
[REL] sobers green crew training SH5 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=188684&highlight=skills)


Incidently, I can't find that fix anywhere. Could you help me with that?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=169477

[jason210]

Thanks - the no magic skills sounds good.

However, I did have the skills set to neutral when I made that earlier test today.

[Dogfish40]

Everything that I can come up with as far as the original question has already been stated. The G7a torpedo was rated in the game and historically with three speeds 45/40/30.
So, as far as missing in front of the target by a few meters goes, (as I had the same exact problem), I did realize that I had givin the torpedoman a boost in skill.
The patch below, "Torpedo_Speed_Abilitie_Fix_for_TDC_SH5_v120" did the trick until I finished the patrol. Now of course I do not use that skill boost anymore.
Hope your problem is solved
Good Hunting

[jason210]

Thanks for all the help!

However, I have tested it again. This time:


No Skill on torpedo man
Speed Fix installed.
Fired one torpedo, timed it for two minutes, and it covered 2700 metres. Which works out at around 43.3 Knots. It would be interesting to know if anyone else egts this speed. Either that's the speed of G7a in SH5, or there's a bug in my set up.

Cheers!

[Commander Mysenses]

Fired one torpedo, timed it for two minutes, and it covered 2700 metres. Which works out at around 43.3 Knots. It would be interesting to know if anyone else egts this speed.

Or an error in your calculation! :hmmm:

According to my speed tables, at 44 knots a torp will cover 2700m in 119 seconds.
I just timed a G7a at top speed for 3.5 minutes and it covered 4750m; that equates to 44 knots.

I went and plotted distance covered every 5 seconds, got a bit of a lumpy curve because chart is only acurate to 50m.
It is interesting to note that the torp takes about 20 seconds to accelerate to running speed, then accelerates a bit more over its run to a snitch over 44 knots, then slows from about 190 seconds out 'til its runs out of steam (literally) at 225 seconds


Conversion base : 1 ms-1 = 1.9438612860586 kt

[Dogfish40]

Ok. Now, if you have no skill boost on your torpedoman, try taking out the speed fix mod.
The speed fix mod might be slowing your torpedo's now when you don't need it.
D40

[jason210]

Or an error in your calculation! :hmmm:

Thanks for trying that out! :)

It confirms what I thought - that the fast setting of the G7a is 44 kts and not 40 kts as they were on the actual U-boats.

There's no error in the calculation. There may be slight inaccuracies caused by measurement since I'm using the ruler on the map which is only marked in 50m intervals, as you point out. Considering I'm using the Queen Mary at a speed of 25 kts for target practice, where I am firing the torpedo at the middle of a ship that is almost 300m long - one second error in timing is neglegible. It amounts to 12.8 metres.

The problem was that I was assuming 40 kts was the fast torpedo speed, and using this figure in my calculations, when in actual fact the torpedos were doing 44 kts. This is why they were overshooting by over 300 metres.

Well, at least that's cleared up!

[TheDarkWraith]

Thanks for trying that out! :)

It confirms what I thought - that the fast setting of the G7a is 44 kts and not 40 kts as they were on the actual U-boats.

There's no error in the calculation. There may be slight inaccuracies caused by measurement since I'm using the ruler on the map which is only marked in 50m intervals, as you point out. Considering I'm using the Queen Mary at a speed of 25 kts for target practice, where I am firing the torpedo at the middle of a ship that is almost 300m long - one second error in timing is neglegible. It amounts to 12.8 metres.

The problem was that I was assuming 40 kts was the fast torpedo speed, and using this figure in my calculations, when in actual fact the torpedos were doing 44 kts. This is why they were overshooting by over 300 metres.

Well, at least that's cleared up!

if you're using my UIs mod you've probably never noticed this before:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=526&pictureid=5299

That sub dial inside the speed dial is the torpedo speed. When you switch from slow, medium, and fast this sub dial changes to show the torpedo speed. It will change based on torpedo selected and speed of torpedo selected :up:

I have lots of little details like this scattered all about the mod that I don't even remember them all :88)

[jason210]

You're right, I hadn't noticed it before :oops:

But it was fun timing toropedos and sinking the Queen Mary :DL

Great mod by the way. Thanks a lot!!

[Hinrich Schwab]

Here are some nice pre-calculated figures I did a while back. This will help with solutions. It won't resolve timing issues from calculation error or angle error (divergence-convergence of AOB during run) I do not have all possible speeds in here (I think there is an oddball 28kt torpedo slipping my mind) but here is what I have.

30kts: 925m/min.
40kts: 1233.334m/min.
44kts: 1356.67m/min.

*Maximum Run*

30kts@3km(Electric Torp) 3.24min.
30kts@12.5km(Steam Torp Slow) 13.51min.
40kts@7.5km(Steam Torp Medium) 6.07min.
44kts@5km(Steam torp Fast) 3.69min.

I hope this little bit of math helps.

If nothing else, it will help select the right speed for you.