Cruise ship aground near Giglio

[Hottentot]

BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16558910) says. Fortunately not too many dead yet considering how many people were aboard. Still, hard to imagine everything happening there at the moment. Especially since there apparently was a wide spread panic among the passengers.

And somehow hypnotizing watching that photo of such gigantic construct of a small human being looking like that.

[RobWed]

Seems the ones that died did so because they leaped overboard. That's a big boat, hitting the water after leaping from one of the upper decks is gonna be pretty much like hitting concrete.

[Jimbuna]

Divers are now searching for possible trapped and survivors.

[soopaman2]

I love when I read this (in American press), the article had to tell how many Americans were on board in order to make us care.:O:

Enough gallows humor. I was irritated at the ineptness of the captain post accident. He should know that steaming ahead in a ship with a hole in it only makes the water come in faster.

Who gave him the damage control report, saying it was ok to steam towards shore?

This was a Captain more interested in easy salvage of the ship, rather than the lives of the passengers, as well as inept underlings.

[Oberon]

Nasty, very nasty. Sounds like a quite badly run ship, on the up side though at least it was close to shore so those who got into lifeboats or swum didn't have far to go. Still nasty though, even the Med at this time of year can't be too warm.
I hear they tried to do the Women and Children first with the lifeboats but it quickly broke down as families didn't want to be split up and men didn't want to be left behind.

[Hottentot]

I found it difficult at first to understand just how close to the shore is "near the shore". Well apparently pretty close:

http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/galleries/517x/27283.jpg

I wonder how the locals will react. Looting is not unheard of, but a ship of that size if probably also going to put some unwanted stuff into their waters.

[Hottentot]

:roll:

Finnish newspaper Aamulehti quotes a passenger saying: "Have you seen Titanic? It was like that."

Not to belittle anyone and I understand many of them are in shock, but no, sorry, I'm just not seeing the resemblance here.

[Oberon]

On the up side (again) it should be a relatively easy salvage job once all is said and done.

[Dowly]

:roll:

Finnish newspaper Aamulehti quotes a passenger saying: "Have you seen Titanic? It was like that."


I shall second that ":roll:" (<-heh, kinda looks like a bunny or something)

[krashkart]

I leave for a few months, and you guys go off and wreck a ship without me?!? :stare::hmph:

[Dowly]

Knew something was missing. :hmmm:

(In keeping with the honest spirit of Finland, I didn't notice you were gone. I apologize. :oops:)

[krashkart]

(In keeping with the honest spirit of Finland, I didn't notice you were gone. I apologize. :oops:)

Oh snap... :doh:

[Dowly]

Oh snap... :doh:

But I missed you in any case!!! :O:

[krashkart]

But I missed you in any case!!! :O:

Really? Er... how many shots did you fire? :hmm2:

[Dowly]

Really? Er... how many shots did you fire? :hmm2:

100 round belt with a SAW. (it's quite difficult to control the recoil when you're the size of a ferret, you know..)

[krashkart]

100 round belt with a SAW. (it's quite difficult to control the recoil when you're the size of a ferret, you know..)

That was you? I won't have to till the flower beds this spring. Thanks! :yeah:

You even aerated the lawn for me. How thoughtful. :D

[Dowly]

Oh no worries, that was my plan all along. :DL


(fetchez la vachez :stare:)

[Hottentot]

Oh no worries, that was my plan all along.

I'll have to remember this line next time I resurrect Doltstein.

[Dowly]

I'll have to remember this line next time I resurrect Doltstein.

But... I want Tropico. :cry:

[Hottentot]

We don't live in a bloody communism, we can have both!

[Dowly]

We don't live in a bloody communism, we can have both!

The more the merrier. :yeah:

[krashkart]

Oh no worries, that was my plan all along. :DL


(fetchez la vachez :stare:)


:haha:

I recommend this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9uLzraras

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPn7x7ELwog

^^ Dispatches dried leaves and neighboring pomeranians with the greatest of ease. ;)

[Dowly]

:haha:

I recommend this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9uLzraras

and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPn7x7ELwog

^^ Dispatches dried leaves and neighboring pomeranians with the greatest of ease. ;)

Was thinking of going with the 36 barrel gun @1mil RPM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbve6W5yPo) :O:

[krashkart]

Was thinking of going with the 36 barrel gun @1mil RPM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbve6W5yPo) :O:

I had forgotten all about that one. :arrgh!:

[nikimcbee]

I leave for a few months, and you guys go off and wreck a ship without me?!? :stare::hmph:

Where'd you go, the Moon? Good to see you!:woot:

[Subnuts]

Captain's in a world of brown stuff:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[krashkart]

Where'd you go, the Moon? Good to see you!:woot:

Lost the wifi. Found it hiding under the couch and had to lure it out with some canned tuna fish. :shifty::O:

[Dowly]

Last summer there was this captain in Finland, he was in charge of some steamer or something. He ran aground the first time near our summer cottage, he had gone off the course (which is pretty darn hard over there!). Two weeks later, he wrecked his ship for the second time, again going off course. :haha:

Don't remember the details about it, but just remember it was funny as heck to learn about it. Especially the first accident, the route really is just "Follow the water" with red and green boyus showing the center line.

[Herr-Berbunch]

This is the woman who said it was like Titanic -

http://images.castcall.blue-compass.com.s3.amazonaws.com/portfolio/165/165982.jpg

Rosalyn Rincon, a dancer/magician's assistant onboard.

Edit: She's not the only dancer, nor the only one to comment on Titanic.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Last summer there was this captain in Finland, he was in charge of some steamer or something. He ran aground the first time near our summer cottage, he had gone off the course (which is pretty darn hard over there!). Two weeks later, he wrecked his ship for the second time, again going off course. :haha:

Don't remember the details about it, but just remember it was funny as heck to learn about it. Especially the first accident, the route really is just "Follow the water" with red and green boyus showing the center line.It was cargo ship which (if I remember correctly) had cargo of logs or something similar. After second trouble ship lost its permission to operate without pilot. Shipping company must be very pleased. :DL

EDIT: Also if my memory doesn't completely fail the grouding locations were separated by just few kilometres. :haha:

[Hartmann]

On the up side (again) it should be a relatively easy salvage job once all is said and done.

Or scrape the ship. Return it the the operational state again could be expensive, saltz water it´s not very good for interiors.

How can be savaged with a lot of compartments flooded ? injecting compressed air ?? :hmmm: or raising it with a platform like Kursk submarine ?

I remember when a container ship sunk loaded with thousand of cars inside, and this was scrapped and raised

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/uk/02/tricolor_popup/img/tc_raising.gif

http://cdn.marineinsight.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/untitled-1.jpg

http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/image96.png

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39262000/gif/_39262111_tricolore_salvahe_inf416.gif

[krashkart]

Red and green buoys = run aground at earliest convenience...


Like driving a car, really. :yeah:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=3461

[Dowly]

It was cargo ship which (if I remember correctly) had cargo of logs or something similar. After second trouble ship lost its permission to operate without pilot. Shipping company must be very pleased. :DL

EDIT: Also if my memory doesn't completely fail the grouding locations were separated by just few kilometres. :haha:

Aye, cargo ship. I remember talking about the first strike with my brother in the car on our way to the bay we get our boat and go to the cottage and 2 weeks later my brother asks me in the car again "You remember that crash I told you about 2 weeks ago?". :rotfl2:

It really is just straight "follow the damn water route!". :har:

Really can't understand that. We used to drive our boat via the shipping route in the early 2000's, so we know it's just, follow the water.

[Jimbuna]

My lad rang home this evening, apparently this ship is part of the Italian arm of the company group.

He tells me he has been in that port before and it is one of the harder ones to navigate.

[Oberon]

The trickiest part will be getting her off the sandbar she's on. After that it shouldn't be a tricky job to salvage. Then it'll be a case of patching up the hole, change the name and back in service. The interiors will need a lot of work, but I'd imagine that they'll keep the ship. Far too expensive to build a new one, although if trade is low they might let it go.

[Jimbuna]

My understanding is the cruise trade is at an all time high but salvage costs will determine the eventual business case no doubt.

[Platapus]

That close to shore, it might be economically feasible to build a coffer dam and pump out?

No matter how you look at it, that's a lotta money :o

Or maybe they can right it, refurbish it and keep it as a stationary hotel?

[Oberon]

The Prosecutors seem to reckon the captain left the ship before the evacuation was complete. That doesn't strike me as being right. Unless he was called off to do something but even then...I don't know. It's too early to make judgments, but there does seem to have been a catalog of errors.

[Hottentot]

a catalog of errors.

Oh yeah, and no shortage of people wanting to get their five minutes of fame by pointing them out. A comment by a Finnish captain already made it into an online news article: "you shouldn't sail that close to the shore."

Dude...

[BossMark]

Well someone's got be a scapegoat I would say the captain is odds on...

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Well someone's got be a scapegoat I would say the captain is odds on...In the end captain is responsible of every screw up under his command although not to such extent as in case of military. I don't assign blame solely on him yet, however if its true that captain left before passengers were even evacuated then that is very severe dereliction of duty.

[andritsos]

somewhere been said that hit teh rock at 21 knots. i wonder how such modern ships, that normally should have also a sort of sonar alert too plus other systems of navigations ( with comunication with the capitaneria di porto, so info is exchanged). Was an alert issue at the ship just before encountering the trouble?

To me, it will get scrapped.

anyways i am astonished to see a soo big wreck ( i have seen quite many times such ship, probably a sister ship etc.)

according to bbc, they found 2 more dead bodies inside the cabins.

[iambecomelife]

It's interesting that she capsized to starboard, but you can see heavy damage from her striking on the port side. Maybe there are even bigger holes to starboard, or maybe she just had bad watertight subdivision.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/1/14/1326542441878/Costa-Concordia-cruise-sh-3lg.jpg

[Betonov]

Is that one big piece of the reef stuck inside the hole :o

Right side of the hole in the picture

[Jimbuna]

Tis also possible she lost propulsion due to electrical failure and drifted out of the navigable channel....only time will tell.

[Hottentot]

Rumor at least in our media now is, that the captain was trying to "greet" the island community by sailing so near the shore, and apparently such gestures have been done there before. Can't find a proper English source for this (the only one so far here (http://www.cruise-community.com/News-Headlines.html)), it might be just the usual nonsense following any such accident.

Edit: four pages already? In that case I feel obliged to say: Obama did it, but Bush was involved so it doesn't count.

[Oberon]

That's what I'm thinking too Jim, there's a lot of stuff flying around at the moment. The captain has denied that he left the ship before the evacuation was complete, and I'm inclined to believe him until proven otherwise.
In regards to the direction of the roll, I'm pondering if the other side flooded to counterbalance the initial water surge and it over-compensated and rolled.

[Jimbuna]

LOL :DL

There are a few 'unnofficial' theories but the press aren't party to them...the official investigation will eventually reach a conclusion.

[Jimbuna]

That's what I'm thinking too Jim, there's a lot of stuff flying around at the moment. The captain has denied that he left the ship before the evacuation was complete, and I'm inclined to believe him until proven otherwise.
In regards to the direction of the roll, I'm pondering if the other side flooded to counterbalance the initial water surge and it over-compensated and rolled.

Let us just say I have a pretty good source on the current thinking but there is a lot of investigative work to be undertaken before a definitive outcome will be reached.

Vessels talk to one another via many means and initial safeguards are often put in place to prevent a repeat on other vessels, even half a world away.

[Oberon]

Let us just say I have a pretty good source on the current thinking but there is a lot of investigative work to be undertaken before a definitive outcome will be reached.

Vessels talk to one another via many means and initial safeguards are often put in place to prevent a repeat on other vessels, even half a world away.

Aha, I'm picking up what you're throwing down. :yep:

[Betonov]

You know landlovers. They see one uniform boarding the lifeboats, everyone goes: look it's the captain !!! And it's just the cook

[Oberon]

You know landlovers. They see one uniform boarding the lifeboats, everyone goes: look it's the captain !!! And it's just the cook

It's always the cook.... :03:

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsA/488-9042.gif

[Rockstar]

The Ambassador said he had spoken to some of the Britons who had been evacuated, and they told him they left the ship in an "orderly fashion", with "no tales of chaos".

Those Brits always got their game face on even when the fecal matter hits the rotating ocsillator. :salute:

.

[Betonov]

It's always the cook.... :03:

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsA/488-9042.gif

:o And I was just now listening to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEt41bYQBgE&feature=related

[Jimbuna]

Aha, I'm picking up what you're throwing down. :yep:

Yes...I believe we are on the same wavelength :03:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Let us just say I have a pretty good source on the current thinking but there is a lot of investigative work to be undertaken before a definitive outcome will be reached.

Vessels talk to one another via many means and initial safeguards are often put in place to prevent a repeat on other vessels, even half a world away.I think I understand what you mean. :yep:

[Oberon]

:o And I was just now listening to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEt41bYQBgE&feature=related

:rock::yeah:

Those Brits always got their game face on even when the fecal matter hits the rotating ocsillator. :salute:

.

We've had a hundred years to practice. :03:

Yes...I believe we are on the same wavelength :03:

It looks like the company might be throwing the captain under the bus though, they've openly stated that he may have committed errors, which the press have seized on like a pack of hungry wolves. Unless this is to help get them off the trail that they're working on in order to prevent widespread panic. :hmmm:

[Reece]

It's always the cook.... :03:

http://media.insidepulse.com/old/columnImages2007/image40860.jpg
Yes you are correct!!

[Hartmann]

114.000 Tons of weight , nothing compared with Titanic ,about 50000 tons , or bismark 60.000 tons.

Could be a bit difficult move it from the place :hmmm:

The question is why the watertigh compartments didn´t work and why it capsized.

[darius359au]

Looks like the captains deep in the doodoo http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/12613803/captain-s-conduct-blasted-in-ship-disaster/

interesting how the company's changed the line from "It's not the captains fault" to "Looks like there was significant human error!" ,the captain deserves to go to jail for a long time just for abandoning ship and his passengers like he did ,then throw in bringing her in so close to shore that he put the ship and passengers in danger ,he wont be seeing daylight for a long time!

[Jimbuna]

I think I understand what you mean. :yep:

Rgr that:salute:

:rock::yeah:



We've had a hundred years to practice. :03:



It looks like the company might be throwing the captain under the bus though, they've openly stated that he may have committed errors, which the press have seized on like a pack of hungry wolves. Unless this is to help get them off the trail that they're working on in order to prevent widespread panic. :hmmm:

A little suprised....unless he's already made a statement admitting some error/wrongdoing :hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Article where this post is based is incorrect. Read this instead: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16573283 Thanks for Type941!



Wikipedia states that Costa Concordia cost $570M when ordered. Based on finnish newspaper's website Carnival Corporation has insurances as follows:
- loss of profit (no cap mentioned but I'm quite sure that there will be one)
- ship's value up to $30M
- other accident related expenses up to $10M
Carnival expects that foundering of Costa Concordia will cost atleast $95M this most likely not including ship itself.

So if Carnival has to replace the ship (instead of repairing it) then assuming that replacement ship's price tag will be somewhat similar (I'm quite sure it won't) to Costa Concordia's it will mean losses of atlest $520M from ship alone. :o

Not surprisingly according to same article company's stock value in London Stock Exchange have dived 23%.

EDIT: Article link (http://www.taloussanomat.fi/ulkomaat/2012/01/16/turmavarustamo-carnivalille-sadan-miljoonan-tappiot/201221011/12?offset=10#comments) for finnish speakers. Last updated 16 January 2012 at 12:07 (GMT+2).

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

A little suprised....unless he's already made a statement admitting some error/wrongdoing :hmmm:In comment section of same article from where those insurance numbers come from was following discussion (my translation):
"Captain was among first to leave ship"
"Accident investigation was fast like with Russians. Not all lifeboats were in beach when prosecutor had charges ready."
"Ship's captain was found from the beach around midnight even though passengers were still being rescued from ship. You don't need much more evidence for charges."

I will try to verify that last comment.

EDIT: This ofcourse doesn't explain accident itself but if true tell a lot about captain.

[Tribesman]

I will try to verify that last comment.

Are all those ecomments just comments in a newpaper comments section writen by readers simply repeating what they read or think they read in newspapers?
According to what I have read the Captain was drunk and asleep while dancing with guests and was swimming to shore after jumping from the bridge in panic in the first lifeboat where he booked into a hotel while wandering on the beach as he was standing on the quay and was also going onto the ship as he was never aboard because he was drinking with an old friend on the island and the ship came in close to pick him up which is why it hit the rocks.

I may have to verify some of those comments.

[Oberon]

Rgr that:salute:



A little suprised....unless he's already made a statement admitting some error/wrongdoing :hmmm:

He's still denying any wrongdoing but the CEO of the company is saying that he made an unauthorized course change. Which brings my mind back to the claim made earlier about 'greeting' the island...but why would a captain do that in the middle of the night?
I'm thinking that the CEO is looking for a diversion from the real problem which you have already touched on. The Black Box investigation will give answers, providing no-one tampers with it... :damn:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Are all those ecomments just comments in a newpaper comments section writen by readers simply repeating what they read or think they read in newspapers?
According to what I have read the Captain was drunk and asleep while dancing with guests and was swimming to shore after jumping from the bridge in panic in the first lifeboat where he booked into a hotel while wandering on the beach as he was standing on the quay and was also going onto the ship as he was never aboard because he was drinking with an old friend on the island and the ship came in close to pick him up which is why it hit the rocks.

I may have to verify some of those comments.Yes. Its from readers' comments section and you described exactly the reason why I used word "try". I have no idea how credible that statement is.

EDIT: Would still like to hear what accident investigators say but this is prosecutors view of situation.
"Asked on the news channel SkyTG24 whether captain Francesco Schettino, arrested on Satruday for multiple homicide, had left the liner "well before all the passengers were evacuated", prosecutor Francesco Verusio replied: "Unfortunately I can confirm that."

The prosecutor also indicated that the ship "was not on the right course", adding that the captain was on the bridge and "therefore responsible for operations".
He said the possible responsibility of other persons apart from the captain and his number two, Ciro Ambrosio, was also being investigated.

Asked whether the crew were not properly prepared, Mr Verusio said: "It was rather the system of command which did not function as it should have done."

Italian media reports have said the captain was on shore around 11.40pm (09.40 AEDT) on Friday while the last passengers were not evacuated until 6am."

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world/going-down-with-the-ship-not-this-captain/story-e6frfkyi-1226244699740#ixzz1jcnk2WKB

Nice... automatic "read more" link. :hmmm:

[Type941]

I'm having some trouble putting together events:

1) did it lose power before or after anyone felt a hit/jolt?
2) did it list in same place it got damaged or it got damaged earlier and just found a resting place on the sand bank later?
3) It is damaged on the left, but supposedly more damaged to the right, OR it's damaged to the left is overcompensated by forced ballast flooding on the right?

PS. Just can't call this ship *beautiful*... Big - yes, very much so.

[Type941]

Wikipedia states that Costa Concordia cost $570M when ordered. Based on finnish newspaper's website Carnival Corporation has insurances as follows:
- loss of profit (no cap mentioned but I'm quite sure that there will be one)
- ship's value up to $30M
- other accident related expenses up to $10M
Carnival expects that foundering of Costa Concordia will cost atleast $95M this most likely not including ship itself.

So if Carnival has to replace the ship (instead of repairing it) then assuming that replacement ship's price tag will be somewhat similar (I'm quite sure it won't) to Costa Concordia's it will mean losses of atlest $520M from ship alone. :o

Not surprisingly according to same article company's stock value in London Stock Exchange have dived 23%.

EDIT: Article link (http://www.taloussanomat.fi/ulkomaat/2012/01/16/turmavarustamo-carnivalille-sadan-miljoonan-tappiot/201221011/12?offset=10#comments) for finnish speakers. Last updated 16 January 2012 at 12:07 (GMT+2).

Before quoting please check translation etc carefully.

For example they're covered in EXCESS of 30m which means cost + 30m. At least that's what I'm seeing.

So they lose 90m USD in revenues for the fiscal year plus the ship plus the claims. They're not insured on revenue loss, which is bad. But they'll get the value of the ship in full, that's what insurance is for. Ship is likely not build with cash, so no bank in the world would lend money on something which has only 10% of its value insured. ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16573283 - a very general news site. I've got Carnival only analysts notes but won't bore you with those.

[Herr-Berbunch]

The Ambassador said he had spoken to some of the Britons who had been evacuated, and they told him they left the ship in an "orderly fashion", with "no tales of chaos".

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6973/butambassador.jpg

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

For example they're covered in EXCESS of 30m which means cost + 30m. At least that's what I'm seeing.Okay... this is what I see in article: "Carnival oli vakuuttanut risteilijän liikennöimättömyydestä aiheutuvat kulut, ja itse laiva on vakuutettu 30 miljoonan dollarin edestä. Vastuuvakuutus kattaa lisäksi kyseisestä onnettomuudesta noin kymmenen miljoonaa dollaria." I just checked that in bold with Google translator and I don't get in excess but this: "the ship is insured for 30 million dollars."

I agree that BBC's article makes more sense, but I can't figure out how that bolded part can be translated to "in excess from sum x"... Or then my language skill in this area is really badly in rust. :doh:

[Type941]

Okay... this is what I see in article: "Carnival oli vakuuttanut risteilijän liikennöimättömyydestä aiheutuvat kulut, ja itse laiva on vakuutettu 30 miljoonan dollarin edestä. Vastuuvakuutus kattaa lisäksi kyseisestä onnettomuudesta noin kymmenen miljoonaa dollaria." I just checked that in bold with Google translator and I don't get in excess but this: "the ship is insured for 30 million dollars."

I agree that BBC's article makes more sense, but I can't figure out how that bolded part can be translated to "in excess from sum x"... Or then my language skill in this area is really badly in rust. :doh:

don't rely on translator especially with finnougric languages (i.e. in case of Estonian it's same thing, which i understand). I just think logically, an asset built on bank's loan should be insured on full amount and then some. when I lease a car, no way will they let me insure it only fro 10% in case of a loss for example. surely it's same logic for the ship.


Anyway, i guess they'll remove the sucker one way or the other for scrapping. Can't leave it there. From what I gather at least, doesn't look like it lost power and hit a reef, more like just went to close to the shore...

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

don't rely on translator especially with finnougric languages (i.e. in case of Estonian it's same thing, which i understand). I just think logically, an asset built on bank's loan should be insured on full amount and then some. when I lease a car, no way will they let me insure it only fro 10% in case of a loss for example. surely it's same logic for the ship.I originally translated it myself and after you pointed out that inconsistence put it to Google translator which produced mostly "finnoanglican" nonsense.

I trusted to newspaper's text as it have so far been correct even when it have first looked unlogical. Looks like they have bad days too...

Anyway, i guess they'll remove the sucker one way or the other for scrapping. Can't leave it there. From what I gather at least, doesn't look like it lost power and hit a reef, more like just went to close to the shore...It will be interesting to see how they do that removal.

Btw did I understand it correctly that you speak Estonian as your native language?

[Hottentot]

KO's translation is accurate. There must have been something wrong in the Finnish article itself.

[Aesthetica]

Here's a link to an Italian new site, it has a small map showing the ships courses.

Yeah two of them, the one it was supposed to have been on and the one it actually took.

ANSA - An Italian news service (http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/speciali/2012/01/13/visualizza_new.html_44175735.html)

Checking other sources suggests that this "Captain" and I'm using the term in the loosest sense of the word, was steaming almost directly at the island at almost 16 knots, in a ship thats larger than most non-US aircraft carriers, came hard right to make a nice close pass by the island, and clipped a rocky outcropping that tore the gash in the port side, he then steamed onwards before realising his ship was sinking, and came about to head for the small bay and port that he had passed, that's where she ended up.

The ship is apparently on a shelf, and some 40-50 m from a dropoff to 70-80 m, and there are concerns that bad weather might push the wreck towards the edge, and she'll slide into it, and because of her size, as she goes over, she'll break her back.

If the gossip mentioned earlier in this thread is true that she was making more than 20 knots, then she might have struck the "uncharted" rocks, due to "squatting" in shallow water, same way the QE II clipped a rock on a run to New York a few years back.

Other stuff to emerge is that the crew consists mostly of Sri Lankans and Phillipenos, hired at very low rates, many with little or no command of Italian, and that there were severe problems with the emergency boat drill due to the deck officers and crew not knowing it.

As for the bridge crew... Captain on the beach while his ship founders with 4000 people aboard... Nuf said.

[Jimbuna]

He's still denying any wrongdoing but the CEO of the company is saying that he made an unauthorized course change. Which brings my mind back to the claim made earlier about 'greeting' the island...but why would a captain do that in the middle of the night?
I'm thinking that the CEO is looking for a diversion from the real problem which you have already touched on. The Black Box investigation will give answers, providing no-one tampers with it... :damn:

The source informs me there are now clear instructions not to discuss externally so I suppose it now becomes a waiting game...amidst all the speculation :hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Just remembered this part of Wikipedia article. Its not first time (if correct case of Costa) when captain is first out from trouble.
The first ship on the scene was Finnpulp. The first of Yarmouth Castle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Yarmouth_Castle)'s lifeboats, which was only half-full, rowed to the freighter. Captain Lehto was angered to find that only four of the people in the boat were passengers. The other 20 were crewmembers who fled at the first alarm, among them Captain Voutsinas. The four passengers were taken aboard the freighter. Voutsinas claimed that he had come to Finnpulp to request a radio distress call. Lehto turned Voutsinas and the crewmen back to Yarmouth Castle saying, "Go back and look for more survivors." The next two lifeboats launched from Yarmouth Castle contained only crew.

Another infamous case is MTS Oceanos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTS_Oceanos).

[Aesthetica]

Is that one big piece of the reef stuck inside the hole :o

Right side of the hole in the picture

Yeah, it's a big piece of rock stuck in the 50 m long gash in the side...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxvcxcU8Xk1qze0z6o1_1280.gif?AWSAccessKeyId =AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1326814753&Signature=NEeuqTy%2FSPShTXIWClgKlANzbvk%3D

[Oberon]

The source informs me there are now clear instructions not to discuss externally so I suppose it now becomes a waiting game...amidst all the speculation :hmmm:

Good, to be honest the CEO should have kept his mouth shut IMHO and waited for the investigation to be completed...but I suppose he was under a lot of pressure...even so you don't finger the captain, particularly if there is any doubt that it might not be his fault or only his fault.
The media will make up their own mind, and will likely blame the captain, but I think that he knows that it's the end of his career as a liner captain, quite possibly the end of it full stop. Even if the investigation clears him, the stigma from this is going to follow him.

[Schöneboom]

My girlfriend has always warned me never to take us on a holiday cruise. :nope:

[Tribesman]

My girlfriend has always warned me never to take us on a holiday cruise.
Has she warned you to never take her on a plane train or coach too?

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

My girlfriend has always warned me never to take us on a holiday cruise. :nope:Why? Do she have any specific fears on cruises? Its much more likely that you die in car crash than for example in ship wreck or airliner crash after all.

EDIT: Ah... Tribesman beat me.

[Schöneboom]

Actually it's not about the potential hazards of cruising -- she hates the thought of being cooped up with the same people for weeks on end. Rather like being trapped in a floating resort.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Actually it's not about the potential hazards of cruising -- she hates the thought of being cooped up with the same people for weeks on end. Rather like being trapped in a floating resort.Like ending up into same ship with most annoying aunt? :hmmm: Thats undeniably small downside.

Ofcourse unless you want captain to restore tradition of marooning you would be stuck with her "lovely company".


:O:

[Type941]

Btw did I understand it correctly that you speak Estonian as your native language?

I speak it, but it's not my native language. Usually Finns are good with news, or better than others but who knows, seems a translation issue. I've seen local business media mix up millions and billions talking about sales results, so knowing how the media model works (just get website hits) I'm not surprised at anything. For example one guy I know posted a link to a blog and said "who can believe this fake story!" and next day he was on radio being portraid as the person behind the fake story itself. All radio stations quoted same story without fact checking it except one who actually called him up and asked if true. Point of the story - media are fking useless in many things and only care about website hits.

Regarding the story, it seems pretty simple to avoid this sort of nonesense. Just man the bridge. I mean you gotta be pretty stupid to miss an island, just looks like they relied on navigation and went way way off. May be it was electronic glitch? Captain thinks he followed the course but appears not. It explains what he says in some way. ... IN future, they just need to put more people on bridge and make sure people are watching where they're going. That's how Titanic could have been saved, and that's how this thing could have been averted.

By the way, this reminds me a lot of this (another south european ship and this time Greek captain, navigation error):
http://www.travel-to-santorini.com/topics_images/25.jpg
http://www.abendblatt.de/multimedia/archive/00574/Sea_Diamond_Santori_574404c.jpg
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070406/070406_sea_diamond_hmed_9a.grid-6x2.jpg


The bastards just sunk it in the end because it seemed like it was easier for them. I won't be surprised one bit if this whole thing is gonna be used to gain insurance money and they'll work on this ship as little as possible, and if money wise it's cheaper to sink it, you wait - they'll tow it and suddenly it will sink 80 metres down..

[Type941]

Yeah, it's a big piece of rock stuck in the 50 m long gash in the side...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxvcxcU8Xk1qze0z6o1_1280.gif?AWSAccessKeyId =AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1326814753&Signature=NEeuqTy%2FSPShTXIWClgKlANzbvk%3D

how does it make sense? Ship on pictures has to its left the coast, but based on this it will have the coast to its right? I'm confused a bit.

http://www.odin.tc/pics/costaconcordia8.jpg

[Betonov]

They say she turned for 180 degrees, that's why she's orientated towards the course she came from.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

They say she turned for 180 degrees, that's why she's orientated towards the course she came from.If so then that could explain why damaged side is above water. Hard turn to port would have caused water to move to starboard side causing list to and eventually capsizing to starboard. :hmmm:

If previous is correct then it would be nice to hear what was captain's reasoning for turn towards shore. Did he attempt to beach ship to prevent sinking?

[Betonov]

I am more wondering why this caused the ship to sink (she would if she would not beach herself). Didn't shipbuilders learned from the Titanic disaster that watertight compartments should be watertight vertically too. A hole like this shouldn't be enough to sink her unless she was poorply designed or there was a serius collapse of safety protocol

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I am more wondering why this caused the ship to sink (she would if she would not beach herself). Didn't shipbuilders learned from the Titanic disaster that watertight compartments should be watertight vertically too. A hole like this shouldn't be enough to sink her unless she was poorply designed or there was a serius collapse of safety protocolPress here in Finland spoke with Traffic Safety Administration's chief of maritime transportation (my own translation) Mr. Tuomas Routa. He said that ships of size class like Costa Coradia are usually made to tolerate compromising of two or three water tight sections. For landlubber like me that doesn't sound much. Also even if bulkheads are watertight from bottom to top when ship lists before or later windows and other hull openings end up underwater causing water to enter non-compromised sections.

[mapuc]

I have red every posting in the thread and most of the news. I'm not an expert on navigating and sailing a huge ship like this.

I await the final report before I make my statement about it-and it will be from my personal believes.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

I have red every posting in the thread and most of the news. I'm not an expert on navigating and sailing a huge ship like this.

I await the final report before I make my statement about it-and it will be from my personal believes.

Markus

Top marks :up:

[Aesthetica]

I am more wondering why this caused the ship to sink (she would if she would not beach herself). Didn't shipbuilders learned from the Titanic disaster that watertight compartments should be watertight vertically too. A hole like this shouldn't be enough to sink her unless she was poorply designed or there was a serius collapse of safety protocol

The gash in the side is 50m long, over 150 ft, so, it could have breached multiple watertight sections. Apparently she lost electrical power, so no pumps, no control over starboard side ballast adjustments, and turning to enter the bay, she has the breakers crashing into her port side, then free surface effect takes over, and she lists badly to starboard...

Loss of control and steering, hits the sandbar, and just falls over, once the upper deck is awash, with her poor crew, odds are there's no water tight seal on the upper decks, and she floods from the upper deck downwards, in all sections.

Just guessing from the various pictures of her plight over the time period.

[soopaman2]

I still blame the captain. To steam towards shore with a massive gash in your side is foolish. Makes more water come in, and when the ship listed it made the lifeboats unusable.

Greedy bastard looking out for the company in making for an easy salvage, rather than the lives of the passengers under his charge.

Shameful display.

[Jimbuna]

I still blame the captain. To steam towards shore with a massive gash in your side is foolish. Makes more water come in, and when the ship listed it made the lifeboats unusable.

Greedy bastard looking out for the company in making for an easy salvage, rather than the lives of the passengers under his charge.

Shameful display.

So you know that for sure do you?

[Aesthetica]

I still blame the captain. To steam towards shore with a massive gash in your side is foolish. Makes more water come in, and when the ship listed it made the lifeboats unusable.

Greedy bastard looking out for the company in making for an easy salvage, rather than the lives of the passengers under his charge.

Shameful display.

Once he'd hit that rock of the SW tip of the island, he didn't have much choice, head for the shelf where the ship won't completely sink, or stay put over enough water to cover the smokestack...

[soopaman2]

Or abandon ship while the lifeboats were still usable?

I initially blamed people giving damage report, but the boss is the boss, good or bad, he messed up.

I blame insurance companies alongside the captain. Easy salvage=saved money from the company.

Edit: bad judgement is what it is. Not hating, just saying. It is what it is, and we can't change it now, we can only prevent it in the future.

[darius359au]

New theory of the day with claims it may have been part of a facebook stunt
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/mum-tells-of-panic-on-crippled-liner/story-e6frea8c-1226245938989

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

New theory of the day with claims it may have been part of a facebook stunt
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/mum-tells-of-panic-on-crippled-liner/story-e6frea8c-1226245938989Would be nice to compare this rumour mill to one in September 1912... :roll:

CORRECTION: In above intention was to write "in April 1912". RMS Titanic was ordered in 17 September 1908 and she sank 15 April 1912. For some reason I always write wrong month. :damn:

If accident investigation report's conclusion turns out be anything even resebling common sense then many will consider it to be conspiracy! :nope:

[TLAM Strike]

Would be nice to compare this rumour mill to one in September 1912... :roll:

Just wait till the conspiracy theories crop up! :haha:

My dad still says a U Boat did in the Titanic... :shifty:

[Aesthetica]

Or abandon ship while the lifeboats were still usable?

Hmm, tricky... The life boats at deck level will be on electrically powered davits, with a manual backup in case of electrical power failure (this ship suffered a power outage), allowing you to load them up, then winch them down into the water. But that usually means deck officers who know how the things work, supervising a crew that knows how the things work.

Italian officers, trying to communicate in a panicked environment with a Sri Lankan/Phillipino crew who speak little or no Italian.

The inflatable rafts are no problem, arm them yank on the lanyard, and they are pretty much automatic, but on a ship this size the deck is over 100 ft from the water, so you're trying to get 4000 people down ropes and rope ladders into floating rubber rafts.

Safer to beach her first. Assuming that you can do that without capsizing her.

[soopaman2]

Hmm, tricky... The life boats at deck level will be on electrically powered davits, with a manual backup in case of electrical power failure (this ship suffered a power outage), allowing you to load them up, then winch them down into the water. But that usually means deck officers who know how the things work, supervising a crew that knows how the things work.

Italian officers, trying to communicate in a panicked environment with a Sri Lankan/Phillipino crew who speak little or no Italian.

The inflatable rafts are no problem, arm them yank on the lanyard, and they are pretty much automatic, but on a ship this size the deck is over 100 ft from the water, so you're trying to get 4000 people down ropes and rope ladders into floating rubber rafts.

Safer to beach her first. Assuming that you can do that without capsizing her.

Fair point sir. But I feel it is better to err on the side of caution. Too bad that costs ship companies money when you are wrong , so a Captain is hesitant to make such decisions without fear of his job. Just too bad people died trying to save the shareholders a few bucks.

But an SOS, and immediate abandon ship would have been prudent.

I would rather see him abandon ship, and it not go down than what happened.

Get the eff off the boat or die, is pretty universal. Especially in panicked tones while pointing at the sea.

[Rockstar]

I still blame the captain. To steam towards shore with a massive gash in your side is foolish. Makes more water come in, and when the ship listed it made the lifeboats unusable.

Greedy bastard looking out for the company in making for an easy salvage, rather than the lives of the passengers under his charge.

Shameful display.

Frankly, I don't think it matters what you do with a 150 foot gash that far below the waterline. It would I think seem to allow an instantaneous and unstopable rush of water into the boat. Even if it was a two compartment boat with a tear that long it's gonna go down and go down fast.

<edit> An Italian official told The Wall Street Journal that the coast guard learned of the ship's troubles after passengers phoned police to complain. The coast guard then contacted the ship's command at about 10:15 p.m., more than a half-hour after the boat hit the rock formation, the official said.

.

[TLAM Strike]

Frankly, I don't think it matters what you do with a 150 foot gash that far below the waterline. It would I think seem to allow an instantaneous and unstopable rush of water into the boat. Even if it was a two compartment boat with a tear that long it's gonna go down and go down fast.
The ship is 950 feet long, I hope it has more than two watertight compartments. It should have something like 20-30 watertight bulkheads running port to starboard on each deck below the waterline and one or two running the length.

Considering the ship capsized but did not sink makes me think only part of the ship flooded and the crew was unable to manually counter flood compartments to keep stable long enough to ground her safely (à la the West Virginia). Whatever caused the lapse in damage control should seriously be considered by the investigators, weather it be a failure of the captain or inability of the crew to perform due to lack of training, lack of able hands, or communications difficulties due to language.

[Oberon]

Indeed...I'd put money on the grounding being deliberate, get as close to shore as possible so the lifeboats didn't have far to go. Heck, he may have even been trying for the harbour, as small as it is. They turned a bit too sharp, the ballast got screwed up and over she went.
I certainly wouldn't have liked to have dropped lifeboats near a rock formation, if they had drifted onto the rocks too...not pretty.
I still believe that, even if the captain did alter course deliberately, he still did all that he could after the collision to ensure the safety of his passengers and crew, the fact that we're looking at a death toll of maximum fifty out of four thousand is due, in part, to the ships location, which is due to either deliberate action or drifting.

As mapuc says though, we won't know anything until after the investigation. So there's little point in assigning blame when we still don't know all the facts, and are relying on stressed and scared eyewitness reports, media speculation and what seems to be a very hyperactive Italian prosecution.

[darius359au]

Seems the captain ignored an order to return to his ship after he abandoned the ship and left the passengers http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-17/captain-defied-rescue-order-report/3777820?WT.svl=news0

[Type941]

I don't know guys, reading the press, there is more and more utter bull---t coming up. Few points:

Media coverage:
The main press writes one story, it gets picked up by secondary sources who don't have people on the ground so to sell their stuff, they just purely imagine things. Hence there is a facebook story and other crap. So you should treat all press releases with a large dose of salt. Because press these days is very shallow, very much incompetent and is mainly focused to sensationalize the story which in the end gets distorted. SO - you can't fully trust the press, and especially the smaller second tier reporters.

Captain:
We'll, company's throwing him under the bus so it seems they've figured their defense out. Captain is jailed, so public is happy - is it good he is jailed? What is he gonna do, run away? He's in shame for rest of his life, unemployable, etc. Do you think that the captain is gonna be kept in jail to keep his italian mouth shut? So he doesn't talk to media?
Also is him being in bar bad? Shouldn't he socialize time to time with others? May be it's OK if he has a girl with him? Or there is a law against that? Or is it conceivable that the guy needed to get off the boat to coordinate rescue, so he could see the ship from distance, etc? Is it possible or not? I don't know, probably it's not out of the question. We don't know and won't because they put the guy in jail and he can't say anything to us anymore.

The interests:
Who are interested parties to keep the story quiet? Well, for starters Carnival (due to their procedures on boat), the ship constructors (there are many more mega liners around, what if the ship structure is weak and it's serious and if it comes out, they have to remodel all of them??), then there is the ECDIS navigational equipment (there were complaints about it in past, see Sea Diamond above, and what if the thing is just innacurate and company has to refit it all everywhere and pay the bill for everything)?; The insurance companies do not have to cover as much if they prove it was human error... 4 big parties, all with money, all with lots of money to lose, and look - a captain, a scapegoat - how convinient. The people already hate him, he's the drinking bastard and coward, ran away, lock him for good - just look at the forum. Is it all that simple? I'm just saying....


With so much money at stake, the captain is thrown under the bus (or under the boat) and seems like everyone made up their mind. Why don't they actually just publish what happened before the accident? Where's the info? It can't be hard. Ship went this way, then it deviated at this time, this person was on bridge, this person gave the order at this time, then ship crashed. Everything else after that is already rescue phase. That can be addressed separately. But tell us what actually happened 30 minutes before that. I hope we find out but I won't be surprised we won't because there is way too much money at stake, probably a billion EUR give or take. A lot of money.

[Jimbuna]

^ Good post :yep:

[Oberon]

^ Good post :yep:

Agreed...right now I wouldn't trust Carnival as far as I could throw them. Not after what that CEO did... :nope:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

^ Good post :yep::agree:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Rumours and speculation will always immediately follow disaster, even if initial thoughts of cause aren't spoken or written in a thread we all have them. Just human nature, everything should be taken with a pinch of salt until official investigations are published. At least with it being in European waters we're likely to get to most of the truth, which is more than we'd get from some parts of the world.

[Rockstar]

The ship is 950 feet long, I hope it has more than two watertight compartments. It should have something like 20-30 watertight bulkheads running port to starboard on each deck below the waterline and one or two running the length.

Considering the ship capsized but did not sink makes me think only part of the ship flooded and the crew was unable to manually counter flood compartments to keep stable long enough to ground her safely (à la the West Virginia). Whatever caused the lapse in damage control should seriously be considered by the investigators, weather it be a failure of the captain or inability of the crew to perform due to lack of training, lack of able hands, or communications difficulties due to language.



It may be 950 long but the ships design dictates how many compartments it takes to sink her.

Maybe Costa Corneilia was designed to permit two compartments to flood and still remain afloat, which I think is the industry standard. A 150 foot tear may have directly compromised two (maybe three) compartments and yet still flooded others indirectly because of broken pipes, open valves, warped doors, ventilation systems, cable runs and bulheads etc. etc. At a depth of 10 feet pressures on the huill are great, at 25 to 30 feet even greater water is going to get in fast even through the smallest hole. I think flooding was instananeous and unconctrollable Costa Corneilia had too much to handle and was going down no matter what.

Then again, I may be completely wrong. Too many questions and posibilities exist as to the cause and events leading up to the disaster. Hopefully we will begin to see the truth of the matter soon.


.

[mapuc]

^ Good post :yep:

:yeah:

[Rockstar]

Rumours and speculation will always immediately follow disaster, even if initial thoughts of cause aren't spoken or written in a thread we all have them. Just human nature, everything should be taken with a pinch of salt until official investigations are published. At least with it being in European waters we're likely to get to most of the truth, which is more than we'd get from some parts of the world.

Over here in the Great Satan we would either be blaming Bush or Obama for lax industry standards and expect the government party officials to fix it immediately! Then whine the next day about big government.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Translation of discussion between Costa Concordia's captain and Italian Coast Guard made by BBC is available here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16599655). Is there anyone who speaks Italian? Do anyone know is that recording publicly available yet?

EDIT: By CNN from Corriere Della Sera's website: http://video.corriere.it/telefonata-schettino-de-falco-finisce-cnn/4bd06176-4129-11e1-b71c-2a80ccba9858
EDIT: The recording: http://www.corriere.it/cronache/12_gennaio_16/procuratore-grosseto-schettino-fermato-perche-poteva-fuggire_76f76cec-4029-11e1-a5d2-75a8a88b1277.shtml

[mapuc]

Translation of discussion between Costa Concordia's captain and Italian Coast Guard made by BBC is available here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16599655). Is there anyone who speaks Italian? Do anyone know is that recording publicly available yet?

EDIT: By CNN from Corriere Della Sera's website: http://video.corriere.it/telefonata-schettino-de-falco-finisce-cnn/4bd06176-4129-11e1-b71c-2a80ccba9858

I heard the discussion on danish and swedish news and it truly chocked me. If it's true that he left before the last passange have abandon the ship, then he have broken every known and unknown sea rules.

In april -91 when the ferry Scandinavian star burst into flame. The captain on that ship, left the bridge long before the last passenge had abandon it

Markus

[Type941]

here's the chat with captain and cost guard with translation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9020679/Costa-Concordia-coast-guard-to-captain-Get-back-on-board-the-ship.html

I post it here anyway so you can read it (IT IS AWESOME):


Coast Guard: "This is De Falco from Livorno, am I speaking with the captain? Please tell me your name."
Captain: "This is captain Schettino."
Coast Guard: "Schettino? Listen Schettino, there are people trapped on board. Now you need to go on your life boat, under the bow of the ship on the side. There is a ladder. You need to climb up the ladder and board the ship. Get on board and report to me how many people there are. Is that clear? I am recording this conversation, captain Schettino."
Captain: "Captain, let me tell you one thing..."
Coast Guard: "Speak up!"
Captain: "The ship, at this moment..."
Coast Guard: "Captain, speak up! Shield the microphone with your hand and speak louder, clear?"

Captain: "At this moment the ship is tilted."
Coast Guard: "I understand. Listen, there are people who are coming down the ladder on the bow. Go back in the opposite direction, get back on the ship, and tell me how many people there are and what they have on board. Clear? Tell me if there are children, women and what kind of help they need. And you tell me the number of each of these categories. Is that clear? Look, Schettino, perhaps you have saved yourself from the sea but I will make you look very bad. I will make you pay for this. Dammit!"
Captain: "Captain, please..."
Coast Guard: "There is no please about it. Go back on board. Assure me you are going back on board!"
Captain: "I am in the life boat, under the ship, I haven't gone anywhere, I'm here."
Coast Guard: "What are you doing?"
Captain: "I am coordinating..."
Coast Guard: "What are you coordinating there? Get on board the ship and coordinate the rescue on board. Are you refusing?"
Captain: "No, no I am not refusing."
Coast Guard: "Are you refusing to go on board? Tell me the reason why you are not going."
Captain: "I am not going because there is another life boat that has stopped."
Coast Guard: "You get on board. This is an order. You need to continue the rescue. You called the evacuation, now I am in charge. You need to go on board the ship, is that clear?"
Captain: "Captain."
Coast Guard: "Can you hear me?"
Captain: "I am going."
Coast Guard: "Go. Call me when you are on board. My air rescue team is there. He is at the bow. Get going. There are already corpses Schettino. Move!"
Captain: "How many dead are there?"
Coast Guard: "I don't know. One I am aware of. One I've heard of. You need to be telling me this. Christ!"
Captain: "But you are aware it is dark and we can't see anything?"
Coast Guard: "And what do you want? To go back home, Schettino? It's dark and you want to go back home? Get on the bow of the ship and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what do they need. Now!"
Captain: "I am here with the second commander."
Coast Guard: "Excuse me?"
Captain: "I am here with the second commander his name is..."
Coast Guard: "So both of you, get on board, both of you. What is the name of the second?"
Captain: "Dimitry."
Coast Guard: "Dimitry who?"
Captain: "Dimitry.. " (Unclear)
Coast Guard: "You and your second commander, go and get on board now. Is that clear?"
Captain: "Captain, I want to get on board the ship but the other life boat has stopped its engine and it is drifting and I called other rescuers."
Coast Guard: "It's already one hour you are telling me this. Now, get on board. Get on board! And you tell me how many people there are."
Captain: "Okay, Captain."
Coast Guard: "Go, right now!"

[darius359au]

There's nothing you can really say about that transcript ,(well nothing that wouldn't explode the profanity filter!) ,sort of makes you wonder if there's some old maritime law that's still on the books with a punishment more severe that just going to jail.

[CCIP]

Saw that on BBC earlier. Wow, just wow :doh:

[TLAM Strike]

...most of the 1,023-strong crew were there to run the bars, swimming pools, theatres and casino.

A mixed group of around 40 nationalities with Filipino and Peruvian waiters, English dancers and Spanish musicians, at least two thirds of the crew were aboard to entertain and take care of the passengers, heavily outnumbering qualified seamen.

...

"In a ship like the Costa Concordia, the maritime staff number 40-50 people, not more. A lot of the services onboard - cooking, laundry, cleaning, waiters - are outsourced to external staff recruited through specialized agencies...
http://news.yahoo.com/entertainers-outnumbered-sailors-doomed-liner-161632262.html

I don't know if that is standard on a cruise ship, but it seems quite stupid to me. In an emergency that like having 600 extra passengers to take care of.

[Rockstar]

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff452/deckofficer/Laura%20at%2016/76.jpg

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff452/deckofficer/Laura%20at%2016/80.jpg

[Buddahaid]

Please explain the chart monitor. Is the wide red line the charted course so the ship deviated to thread that needle? Or is that where she is sunk.

[Type941]

as you see, Carnival aren't so clean - they've done this in the past, so captain's cowardly actions aside, his insitence that he went according to the route etc are probably valid.. As BBC says, not so black and white anymore. Data from Lloyds.

This is a better map.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57950000/jpg/_57950604_e0dbb8d4-1331-41d5-b91f-5fb73dea0a2a.jpg

[joea]

as you see, Carnival aren't so clean - they've done this in the past, so captain's cowardly actions aside, his insitence that he went according to the route etc are probably valid.. As BBC says, not so black and white anymore. Data from Lloyds.

This is a better map.

A good map indeed. If it was up to me, there would be some company execs under arrest in addition to the captain. :shifty:

[geetrue]

I heard the discussion on danish and swedish news and it truly chocked me. If it's true that he left before the last passange have abandon the ship, then he have broken every known and unknown sea rules.
Markus

The captains latest excuse for leaving is that he tripped into the life boat, how will that sound in a court of inquiry? :oops:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

The captains latest excuse for leaving is that he tripped into the life boat, how will that sound in a court of inquiry? :oops::D My brother told about this couple of hours ago. I had to ask him to repeat it twice as I was absolute sure that I misheard him. :nope:

[Herr-Berbunch]

He tripped and fell into the arms of Dimitri in the lifeboat ;)

[vienna]

http://news.yahoo.com/italy-enthralled-ships-tale-two-captains-133527443.html

[soopaman2]

So I was right about the captain at the outset...

Not only is he incompetenet, but a coward to match.

To leave your ship before you safely seen to your passengers is cowardly, repulsive, and he should see a prison cell.

One count unintentional manslaughter per life lost. Sentence ran consecutively if that is how the Italians do it.

A disgrace to all seamen.

[mapuc]

He (the captain) has obviously sailed the same route before, so close upon the land. That made me thinking of this: What if he has been told from the top leadership that he must sail so close to land

Just a thought
(I know I have said I wouldn't give any statement before the official report was at hand)

Markus

[soopaman2]

He (the captain) has obviously sailed the same route before, so close upon the land. That made me thinking of this: What if he has been told from the top leadership that he must sail so close to land

Just a thought
(I know I have said I wouldn't give any statement before the official report was at hand)

Markus


In all fairness, I did read that ships tend to cruise close to shore and blow horns to impress the onboard tourists. (you see this in NY ports all the time)

He refused to go back on board his boat, when ordered by Italian CG officials, is where my calls as a coward comes from.

[Fincuan]

He (the captain) has obviously sailed the same route before, so close upon the land. That made me thinking of this: What if he has been told from the top leadership that he must sail so close to land

Imho it's probable that the headsheds encouraged such actions, possibly even ordered them, but it's still the captain who's in charge and it's his duty to refuse such orders. It might not be the easiest thing to do with millions of dollars and your job at stake, but that's how it goes. The maritime industry is a bit unique in the sense that the captain is still the king on his ship and ultimately responsible for everything related to his ship, its crew, cargo and passengers. Whatever goes wrong they can always find some way to put blame on the captain should they want to.

[Type941]

well, if Carnival wants to put the blame on the captain, he sure makes it easy for them given how the CG vs Captain chat went. :)

Still, the fact seems to appear that the ship has done this in the past and THAT is a fault of Carnival. I'd be suing Carnival over this too.

[mapuc]

I defend definitely not the captain. What he made was cowardly and it is no excuse for it.

Markus

[Herr-Berbunch]

A complete contrast to the guy who landed on/in the Hudson, double checked everyone out and last to leave. :yeah:

[soopaman2]

A complete contrast to the guy who landed on/in the Hudson, double checked everyone out and last to leave. :yeah:


Captain Sullenberger (sully) is a hero.

http://www.facebook.com/sully

More should be like him.

I'd link to wikipedia but they are protesting some fascist legislation today.

[Oberon]

It's swinging more and more against the captain...I still don't like the why this has been handled though. Carnival have shown themselves to have no willingness to support their employees. If I were working for them I'm be seriously considering moving to another company because the way they immediately offered the captain up as a sacrificial goat indicates that they have something to hide too...be it a lack of proper employee training, a lack of protocol enforcement on their vessels (the fact that more of the crew on the ship were entertainers instead of actual ship crew), a lack of safety awareness and general corner-cutting to try and save money and gain profit.
Basically, what most companies do but get away with until something goes wrong.

Then again, these days, there's very little loyalty from companies to their staff, and that's a sad thing.

But yes, it's not looking good for the captain, I will admit that.

[Jimbuna]

It's swinging more and more against the captain...I still don't like the why this has been handled though. Carnival have shown themselves to have no willingness to support their employees. If I were working for them I'm be seriously considering moving to another company because the way they immediately offered the captain up as a sacrificial goat indicates that they have something to hide too...be it a lack of proper employee training, a lack of protocol enforcement on their vessels (the fact that more of the crew on the ship were entertainers instead of actual ship crew), a lack of safety awareness and general corner-cutting to try and save money and gain profit.
Basically, what most companies do but get away with until something goes wrong.

Then again, these days, there's very little loyalty from companies to their staff, and that's a sad thing.

But yes, it's not looking good for the captain, I will admit that.

^ Another good post :yep:

What's accepted privately is not always accepted publicly...when the wheel comes off.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

A complete contrast to the guy who landed on/in the Hudson, double checked everyone out and last to leave. :yeah:Another good example was captain of MS Sally Albatross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Albatross) which sunk into shallow waters off Helsinki in March 4, 1994. Was last to leave the ship and only after getting direct order from company.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

As we are talking much about captain's performance here I want to make a little bit off topic comment here.

I really respect captains' of those cruiseferries travelling in northern Baltic Sea. I have read many accident investigation reports on those accidents and performance after accident have been exceptional in all cases taking into account what information they had when making decisions. So if there happens to be any of them reading: thank you all very much. :salute:

[mapuc]

As I wrote before, it's not the first time a captain disembark from his ship. The text below is from the Danish wiki

The night of the 7th April was the ferry (Scandinavian Star) in the Skagerrak, as there around noon. 00:50 fire broke /(Have shorten it)
At 03.28 Captain Hugo Larsen announced that he could no longer be on board and assured the captain of Stena Saga that everyone was rescued, although there were still more than 40 survivors back at this time. This announcement also meant that at first not smoke divers were sent to the burning ship, although there were still many survivors back on board.

He was heavily criticized for this and probably also fired

Markus

[Tribesman]

So now the head of the RINA department which certified the vessel and route has resigned.
I wonder when the board of Carnival will put their hands up to their mistakes?
Silly question really.
Enrico Scerni who resigned said everyone knew cruise vessels routinely "take a bow" at Giglio

[Jimbuna]

Enrico Scerni who resigned said everyone knew cruise vessels routinely "take a bow" at Giglio

That is precisely one of the snippets of information I was unable to post, for obvious reasons.

[Kapitan]

perhapse it will come out in the wash, the guy is experianced but what id like to know was he in manual control or on auto pilot?

[Kapitan]

double post sorry

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

That is precisely one of the snippets of information I was unable to post, for obvious reasons.Well now its not secret anymore. Also cruise line's efforts to put blame solely to captain are not holding water (sorry had to use that).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/19/costa-concordia-captain-francesco-schettino

[Type941]

Yup,
picture seems to be:

1) captain is a reckless kinda guy
2) Carnival sanctioned dangerous maneuvers which absolves captain from the blame
3) Captain actually saved the ship VERY well considering the damage it probably took from hitting a reef at +20knots
4) Captain was not last to leave but why it was we don't know - either he needed to coordinate from outside the ship, or he ran away (a brave maneuver to save the ship first, then total panic... who knows).

From the link, here's the ship maneuver - is it done by a total coward?
http://www.odin.tc/pics/costaconcordia10.jpg
This resource is in russian language, but with google translate you'll find it's an interesting one: http://www.odin.tc/newsru/read.asp?articleID=139

[Jimbuna]

A small extract from young Buna outlining a couple of the procedures that are being taken by cruise liners now (hopefully every one).


regulations and company procedures are soon going to be ammended.

I have been chosen by the company to go on a ship crisis management behaviour course when i get back its on the 19th March just for the one day down in London, I will then be certified (under STCW which is the certified training alliance for the merchant navy) to deal with passenger crisis management onboard in the event of an emergency and to also give training to other officers/crew in relation to crisis management onboard, so that will be good for the CV and experience.

We have also took extra safety steps onboard with permission of the company to disembark any passengers which do not attend the lifeboat muster safety brief which is conducted before we set sail from our home port (*****), sounds crazy but some passengers still after what has happened point blank refuse to attend, so this should now solve that problem.

[Jimbuna]

13th body recovered:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16672216

[Hottentot]

This situation just is a no-win. On one hand they have to recover the bodies, and many are still missing. On the other, there is a possible environmental catasrophe waiting around the corner, and they can't do anything about it until the ship has been completely searched.