TMO - duds and duds and more duds!!

[Ray.]

Hey guys,
so i managed to get the expansion and install TMO2.5 (got rid of sh5!),
anyway, first mission and I am face to face with a small convoy :2 destroyers and merchant maru. So, I got the sub at the perfect position, set up my solution, and fired 4 toprs from an approximate distance 2000+yards and down I go!

Happily waiting for my crew guy to report torpedo impact!! right?
and so here we go:

Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (what the hell, i have another 3:up:)
Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (Hmm, unlucky!:down:)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (What in the blue hell????????:wah:)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (For the love of god!!!!!!!!!:damn:)


Come on!!!!!!!!! all four??????????????? hahahaha

[Floyd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

Dan Daspit (in Tinosa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Tinosa_%28SS-283%29)) carefully documented his efforts to sink 19,000 ton whale factory ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_ship) Tonan Maru III on 24 July 1943. He fired four torpedoes from 4,000 yd (3,700 m); two hit, stopping the target dead in the water. Daspit immediately fired another two; these hit as well. With no enemy anti-submarine combatants in sight, Daspit then took time to carefully maneuver into a textbook firing position, 875 yd (800 m) square off the target's beam, where he fired nine more Mark 14s and observed all with his periscope (despite the Japanese firing at it). All were duds.Daspit, suspicious by now he was working with a faulty production run of Mark 14s, saved his last remaining torpedo to be analyzed by experts back at base. Nothing out of the ordinary was found.


Do not fire from a "perfect" position.

[Ray.]

really??
where should i fire from!?:-?

How fast can i replace this "plague" !:hmmm:

[Fish40]

U.S. torpedoes were plagued with problems early on in the war. Both the exploder and depth keeping mechanism were faulty. Your best bet early war, is to set the torpedo depth as shallow as possible, set the torpedo speed to slow, and try to fire at an angle other than 90 degrees.

[mido]

Hey guys,
so i managed to get the expansion and install TMO2.5 (got rid of sh5!),
anyway, first mission and I am face to face with a small convoy :2 destroyers and merchant maru. So, I got the sub at the perfect position, set up my solution, and fired 4 toprs from an approximate distance 2000+yards and down I go!

Happily waiting for my crew guy to report torpedo impact!! right?
and so here we go:

Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (what the hell, i have another 3:up:)
Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (Hmm, unlucky!:down:)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (What in the blue hell????????:wah:)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (For the love of god!!!!!!!!!:damn:)


Come on!!!!!!!!! all four??????????????? hahahaha

I was complaining about the same thing, read this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=190928

Following some good piece of advise given here fixed my problems. By the end of '43 everything is "cool".

[Ray.]

I was complaining about the same thing, read this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=190928

Following some good piece of advise given here fixed my problems. By the end of '43 everything is "cool".

oh boy, this is going to be fun:cool:
iam early 41 patrol:) haha

will try with all tips given!

[Sailor Steve]

really??
where should i fire from!?:-?

How fast can i replace this "plague" !:hmmm:
On top of the magnetic pistol and depth-keeping problems they discovered that if the impact pistol struck from a perfect 90-degree angle it had a good chance of crushing the firing pin and not exploding. Striking at a technically "worse" angle made the torpedo explode. Surprisingly the Germans had the opposite problem - impact-set torpedoes would only explode at a 90-degree angle.

[Ducimus]

http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/917200754322PM_100_1230.JPG


Duci's Weather rock for Torpedo firing

If sea is windy, use impact. Getting to the target is half the problem.
If sea is calm, use magnetic. Getting to the target isn't the problem.

[Stoli151]

http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/917200754322PM_100_1230.JPG


Duci's Weather rock for Torpedo firing


If sea is windy, use impact. Getting to the target is half the problem.
If sea is calm, use magnetic. Getting to the target isn't the problem.

I used this advice in early 42 and get quite a bit of my torpedoes to detonate along with setting depth at zero and use low speed when possible. Since it is his mod he would know. The only problem I have now is that once they do detonate the DD's know I am there and getting away from them is a whole other issue for me.

[Ducimus]

The truth is, how failures work in game is horribly flawed. I didn't realize this until after i had experimented with it for quite a bit.

As you know the game has two detonation pistols.
1. Magnetic
2. Impact.


The flaw is this in terms of tweaking dud rates as a modder:

Impact pistols:
Dud rates can be tweaked, but not premature rates. which is correct, with no magnetic influence, wave actions won't cause a premature detonation.

Magnetic pistols:
Now here's the kick in the teeth. Magnetic pistol can detionate via both a solid hit against a hull, or magnetic influence. You can tweak premature rates, but you cannot tweak impact dud rates. Dud rates for impact hits while using the magnetic pistol seems to be this hard coded value somewhere that is abysmally low.

So in sum you can:
- tweak an impact pistol to dud all you like.
- tweak a magnetic pistol to premature all you like.

But you can not:
- Tweak an impact pistol to premature
- Tweak a magnetic pistol to dud.


Now go back, and reread my Indian weather rock on torpedo firing. lol

[peabody]

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7001/indiantorp.jpg

[Ducimus]

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7001/indiantorp.jpg


:har: Nice!

[kstanb]

What about using Mark 10 (S boat)

are they completely reliable in TMO?

[Ray.]

I restarted patrol, and this time used magnetic and shallow as advised. fired 4 one missed 3 detonated:) down she goes!

now, getting away from those DDs is another trick..hahah..
jesus, I am at almost 450ft , thats the max for this sub, and they still ping me(silent & 1/3)..hmm..I thought in 41s they couldnt ping bellow 300-350ft...back to reading i guess..:damn:

[CCIP]

What about using Mark 10 (S boat)

are they completely reliable in TMO?

Looking at the files, yes, they are pretty reliable. Not completely, but the failure chance for the impact trigger is only 1% (when you have it at proper angle) and the maximum depth keeping error is only 3ft.

AFAIK the real mk 10s had pretty serious depth keeping and gyro problems at the start of the war, though their pistols were pretty good.

[Hylander_1314]

I restarted patrol, and this time used magnetic and shallow as advised. fired 4 one missed 3 detonated:) down she goes!

now, getting away from those DDs is another trick..hahah..
jesus, I am at almost 450ft , thats the max for this sub, and they still ping me(silent & 1/3)..hmm..I thought in 41s they couldnt ping bellow 300-350ft...back to reading i guess..:damn:


What kinda boat you got?

[TorpX]

http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/917200754322PM_100_1230.JPG



Duci's Weather rock for Torpedo firing

If sea is windy, use impact. Getting to the target is half the problem.

If sea is calm, use magnetic. Getting to the target isn't the problem.



A couple of technical questions:

1. Will there be a in-game Mark I 'TorpRock' in TMO 2.6?


2. Can Torpedomen with Special Rock Ability (and trained by BuOrd) operate 'TorpRock' underwater without penalty?



;)

[razark]

There is nothing wrong with your torpedoes. You are obviously using them incorrectly. You need to train in proper torpedo usage, and your crew needs better training in proper torpedo maintenance procedures. The Mark 14 torpedo with Mark VI Exploder is a perfectly fine weapon, and if y'all weren't such dunderheads, you might actually sink something.

BuOrd


See? The torpedoes are perfectly fine. The designers said so. You must be using them wrong, they say.

[Ray.]

What kinda boat you got?

I have a Gar-class. If i recall correctly the depth gauge goes uptp 450ft.

I am at 400ft 2 DDs and i am out of batteries..:(

[Ray.]

See? The torpedoes are perfectly fine. The designers said so. You must be using them wrong, they say.

damn right they are!! :haha::haha:

[in_vino_vomitus]

I had no idea that wave action contributed to premature detonation. I prefer the magnetic pistol in any case, I'd forgotten about avoiding the 90 deg angle for contact fused torpedoes too - or at least I'd forgotten how important it is. I just fired about eight MK 14's at a tanker [Nippon Maru] for one detonation, which sank it after about 20 mins. A little more thought next time methinks.....

[merc4ulfate]

I'm currently running Operation Monsoon and loving it. It is early 1940 off the coast of Gibraltar. I'm in an early model so I only have three forward tubes. I come across a sweet convoy coming out of the straights and in the slightly foggy atmosphere run at them between escorts on the surface. 13 Knots is about as good as it gets but I line up on a huge tanker while the escort catches up to me.

I have loaded my boat with five(yes that is the total load out for this model) homing torpedoes. I pass in front of a merchant and come about hard to starboard hoping the now firing escort hits the merchant not me but she is close. I have to slow so the fish do not come back at me and dive. All three go after the tanker DUD:har:, DUD:woot:, DUD:D, could be heard in the water and laughing :haha: sailors from the merchants. I managed to get the other two off moving through the convoy, DUD:dead:. DUD!!:/\\!!

The Germans had issues as well with the torpedoes. I was just glad the sun was going down and made it harder for them to see as I moved toward the back of the convoy underwater and once clear I rose to the surface and got away under cover of fog and night back to Cadiz for a new load out.

[in_vino_vomitus]

They say if you expect the worst you're only going to get pleasant surprises and I've found that that's true to a certain extent. There's no joy attached to getting a dud when you've got course and speed nailed and you're positioned for a perfect shot, but on those occasions when you have less time to work a solution and your data are of dubious quality, when your sonar operator reports a dud, then you can console yourself with the thought that at least you hit the damned thing.

On a related note I'm starting to love the TDC more and more, or more accurately the PK. It makes it far easier to assess the quality of my guesswork.......

[Archer7seven]

I restarted patrol, and this time used magnetic and shallow as advised. fired 4 one missed 3 detonated:) down she goes!

now, getting away from those DDs is another trick..hahah..
jesus, I am at almost 450ft , thats the max for this sub, and they still ping me(silent & 1/3)..hmm..I thought in 41s they couldnt ping bellow 300-350ft...back to reading i guess..:damn:


I was watching Silent Service doc on Youtube and an old bubblehead said that the japs linly used passive sonar? Not to doubt the old man, he went through a depth charging, but is this on oversight on the part of the game?

[Red October1984]

I was watching Silent Service doc on Youtube and an old bubblehead said that the japs linly used passive sonar? Not to doubt the old man, he went through a depth charging, but is this on oversight on the part of the game?

I had thought that the Japanese didn't get active sonar until Mid-War.

I'm not sure about Passive Sonar. :hmmm:

I'll need to do some research.