Clueless traveler guide: Berlin

[Betonov]

Off to Berlin for the new years. For 5 whole days. So, places to see, museums to visit, clubs to go, restaurants to eat, streets to avoid, prices, people, customs... the works :D

So, any suggestions and ideas :DL

[Skybird]

Have lived there for ten years, but honestly cannot recommend to go there at all.

Berliner mentality: many of the young ones nowadays have moved there and are no original Berliners. The old-fashioned Berliners however can be extremely unfriendly and call that "Berliner Schnauze", meaning it as a hasrh but heartly attitude. But it isn'T, it simply is lacking politeness and lack of care and manners. Do not be surprised if occassionally you happen to run into an older Berliner and catch yourself some snappy comment out of the blue. Don'T start arguments, it only gets you into more of the same - stay Vulcan.

Museums: Deutsches Museum, or the Museumsinsel with a whole collection of such - places... No museum fan myself, I admit.

If it were spring or summer or autumn, I would say make sure you catch a sight of the large forests and lakes, Berlin is the greeniest city of its size in Europe. Some nice cafes out there.

Surrounding the Western Grunewald to the East, where Charlottenburg and Zehlendorf districts are located, you have the richer, nicier part of Berlin homes. The Eastern parts of the city, and the centre, are more dirty, emotionless, lacking asthetic and "Gemütlichkeit". Some streets have been renovated since the wall came down, some not.

Do not underestimate the danger level of Berlin by night, this has changed dramatically since the 80s. Where I used to go alone at night back then, I wouldn't do that today anymore. Almost every day there is news in the papers of street violence, burning cars, and people getting beaten up in the subway. My father left the city four years ago or so, and until the end had to drive car in the late evening (being an orchestra musician), he also said that it grew worse during the thirty years he was there. That should not be a dramatic appeall by me, I just mean: be careful, do not walk alone in the subway at night, such things.

Biggest shopping malls are 1st the Kurfürstendamm from Breitscheidplatz in the East to Adenauer Plaza in the West, and 2nd the Schlossstrasse in Schöneberg, especially it'S Western half. These two are the biggest there are. Nightlife for the most seems to be located in the former "East" of the city, though, but is said to slowly shift back to the former Western city's centre around the Kurfürstendamm. Cannot judge that myself, I never was a club examiner checking a "scene".

East of Berlin is a famous natural area that maybe also in winter is worth the day tour, the Spreewald. An ethjnic minority lives there embewdded both in the beautiful nature with many small rivers and the forest, and its traditions. But this is probbaly not what you are looking for, so... Just wanted to mention it. I am more the landscapes and nature type, you see. Museums and city life usually do not catch my interest.

Ooops, almpost fprgot that: watch where you are walking. The city is incredibly dirty - lots of dogsh!te almost everywhere. Dog owners simply do not care.

[TLAM Strike]

I'm guessing your more interested in the Military stuff since your posting on Subsim. Keep in mind I've never been to Berlin, but I know of these places.

At the Allied Museum in the old American Sector they have the guard shack from Check Point Charlie, and one of the Berlin Air Lift transports. At the site of Check Point Charlie there is another museum that chronicles the wall and the different escape attempts; they have a midget submarine there that was used to cross the Baltic.

At the Soviet War Memorial there are some Howitzers and T-34s.

There is the "Topography of Terror" Museum which chronicles the SS and Gestapo.

The Luftwaffenmuseum der Bundeswehr (German Air Force museum) has a bunch of aircraft.

[Skybird]

Oh, I forgot Gatow, former RAF base. It is a military aviation museum - and a pretty big one.

Check Google Earth at N52°28'24"/E13°08'35".

[Jimbuna]

A few sites of info:

http://www.visitberlin.de/en

http://www.visitberlin.de/en/plan/city-info

http://www.justberlin.org/

[Betonov]

Thanks and keep them comming :DL

I'll write a guide and publish it for Subsimers when I return. I just hope the term Clueless traveler isn't already taken, I like it :DL P.S. Yep, already taken (blody hell khm I mean Verdamnt), need a new name

@Skybird's first post: sounds just like Ljubljana :-? :yep:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Oh, I forgot Gatow, former RAF base. It is a military aviation museum - and a pretty big one.


That's where TLAM's Luftwaffenmuseum der Bundeswehr is.

Just about everything now that contains RAF is preceded by the word 'former' :wah:

[Egan]

I've been a couple of times and I really like it. The Pergammon Museum is one of my favourites, and is worth visiting for the Ishtar Gates alone. I also second TLAM Strike's suggestion of the Topography of Terror exhibition at the former Gestapo and SS HQ. It's incredibly moving.

Gallery wise, I haven't actually manage a whole lot there, but I did visit and really like the Neue Nationalgalerie which has a focus on modernist art and the 20th century. Perhaps the place I was glad to have visited the most was the Haus der Wannsee-Konferenz where, in early 42, Heydrich had his infamous meeting to decide on the Final Solution. It's a bit of hike out from the town but well worth seeing.

Other than attractions I have found Berlin to be a brilliant city for just wondering around in. Do the touristy stuff - the Tiergarden, the Brandenburg gate, Unter Der Linden...all that sort of thing. Public transport is cheap and quick so you can hop from area to area as your fancy takes you.

I bow to Skybird's first hand knowledge of Berlin, but i never felt any hassle at all - even wondering around at night in a couple of fair states - mind you I live in Glasgow and have holidayed in a fair few total hellholes in my time so I may just be pretty thick skinned when it comes to that sort of thing. I would actually go as far as to say that I felt safer in Berlin on a Friday and Saturday night than I ever have at home.

My feeling of it is that it's a very cool city with a bunch of very vibrant communities. I've met a whole bunch of very friendly, chilled people there and will go back as soon as I can. I'll also tell you this: if I was 21, I would seriously consider moving there.

As for the dog-turds. If you've ever been to Paris, Berlin is sterile in comparison!

[Catfish]

There's tons to discover in Berlin.
From concerts (rock and others) to all kinds of parties, or more historical sites and museums, then most people are open-minded and the city has - other than wannabe cities like Hannover - real international flair.

I really can't understand what some here are talking about. Paris is certainly fascinating, as is London. But Berlin has become THE place to go in the last years, as they say "anyone who wants to be "in" goes to Berlin, all others are already there !"

Just go there and look, and have fun :DL

[August]

The city is incredibly dirty

This I find difficult to believe. Not doubting you at all Sky, it's just so,... unGerman!

[frau kaleun]

This I find difficult to believe. Not doubting you at all Sky, it's just so,... unGerman!

Next he'll be telling us the trains don't run on time. :nope: :O:

[August]

Next he'll be telling us the trains don't run on time. :nope: :O:

I once saw a German train pull into the station about 10 minutes late. The station master came out and tore a patch off the conductors butt that would have carpeted the reichstag.

[Dan D]

Bicycle tour trip Berlin:

Rent a bike and cycle the Havel bike trail from Oranienburg to Potsdam. The trail joins part of the Berlin Wall trail (http://www.berlin.de/mauer/mauerweg/index/index.en.php).

Lots of history along the route:
KZ Sachsenhausen ( http://www.stiftung-bg.de/gums/en/index.htm) (Entrance is at "Tower A", from there all the way to "Station Z", the extermination station.
Wannsee Konferenz ( http://www.ghwk.de/engl/kopfengl.htm)
Glienicker Brücke („bridge of spies“) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glienicke_Bridge)
Potsdamer Konferenz ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Conference)

That is what it looks like on the map:
http://maps.google.de/maps?saddr=Im+Neuen+Garten,+14469+Potsdam+(St%C3%A 4tte+d.+Potsdamer+Konferenz)&daddr=Glienicker+Br%C3%BCcke,+Potsdam+to:Am+Gro%C3 %9Fen+Wannsee+56-58,+14109+Berlin+(Haus+der+Wannsee-Konferenz)+to:Stra%C3%9Fe+der+Nationen+22,+16515+O ranienburg+(Gedenkst%C3%A4tte+und+Museum+Sachsenha usen)+to:Mauer+Radweg&hl=de&ie=UTF8&ll=52.537108,13.356628&spn=0.640672,1.234589&sll=52.58386,13.31955&sspn=0.63999,1.234589&geocode=FV67HwMdsFrHACH7H3iMUzPTqg%3BFevDHwMdC7zHA CGMl6esIU6yQA%3BFRYQIAMdQ-PIACER0C31qXwIQA%3BFU4bJQMdlFXKACGirL1WO6gdNg%3BFS VWIQMd4SzMACHP5cMlUaexKg&vpsrc=6&mra=ls&t=m&z=10

I did the same tour last year when I cycled part of the Havel river trail. If I remember correctly, it can be done on a single day. The tours includes crossing the Wannsee on a ferry.

[Skybird]

Next he'll be telling us the trains don't run on time. :nope: :O:
Which actually is true. And the city trains called S-Bahn will maybe not drive at all. It's incompetence and mismanagement there since years. Therefore, the Berliner S-Bahn is in the headlines at least once a week. Their trains are not winter-proof and tend to breakl down. We had that with several ICE trains last winter as well. And frozen toilets, and trains with temperatures at zero degrees.

;) Germany is not that German anymore at all! :O:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Which actually is true. And the city trains called S-Bahn will maybe not drive at all. It's incompetence and mismanagement there since years. Therefore, the Berliner S-Bahn is in the headlines at least once a week. Their trains are not winter-proof and tend to breakl down. We had that with several ICE trains last winter as well. And frozen toilets, and trains with temperatures at zero degrees.

;) Germany is not that German anymore at all! :O:

Yeah, but have they ever claimed that leaves have brought the network to a standstill? Or ever the wrong type of snow? :hmmm:

[August]

;) Germany is not that German anymore at all! :O:

Maybe it's just me but that's an incredibly sad thing to hear. :cry:

[Karle94]

I was in Berlin in Oktober. I reccomend going to Sachsenhausen, the Reichstag, Brandenburger Tor, the Berliner Vernsehturm (TV-mast) and the DDR-museum.

[Rockstar]

Don't forget to bring a good towel. ;)

[Skybird]

Maybe it's just me but that's an incredibly sad thing to hear. :cry:

If you want precise train traffic, try Japan. I was told (and saw on TV) they match their time tables +/- 30 seconds, the trains stop right at the door markings on the floor, again 10 or 20 cm precise, and the maintenance halls for the mechanics when working on the trains did not look like garages, but like hospitals, that clean they were (it indeed looked like a giant surgery room what they showed on TV). No oil, no dirt, no lose tools anywhere. It almost looked frighteningly sterile.

I would not mind to eat dinner from their floor, if that documentary was right. :)

Germany: many trains are late, most between 10 and 30 minutes, but you can also catch 1 or 2 hours. Train stations are often very dirty and look shabby, the trains have just been reported to be bug-ridden to a degree that in some cases it may even be a health risk, and the technical reliability in no way matches the famous german engineering skill one got used to believe in by history. In summer, trains break down or at least the cooling system do due to the heat, in winter the toilets sometimes freeze or the doors do not open, or the electric system breaks down. And that in the modern ICE trains!

It is sometimes better with small private railroad lines like the one I use to use here.

[August]

That sounds terrible Sky, what happened to Germany?

[TLAM Strike]

...what happened to Germany?
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9606/14036worldwar2sovietsin.jpg
The trains were on time and everything up until that point...

[August]

Now see I'd have thought it was this:

http://www.brandeis.edu/cges/news/upcomingevents/newsimages/EURO%20SYMBOL.png

[frau kaleun]

Now see I'd have thought it was this:

http://www.brandeis.edu/cges/news/upcomingevents/newsimages/EURO%20SYMBOL.png


OH LORD don't get him started! :o :O:

[Skybird]

Don't worry, I'm tired. G'd nite.

[Kongo Otto]

This I find difficult to believe. Not doubting you at all Sky, it's just so,... unGerman!

Well go to Berlin-Neukölln and then show me a German. :haha:
Thats the same as going to Iran and search for an Israeli. :har:

[Penguin]

From Wikitravel on German culture (http://wikitravel.org/en/Germany#Respect):

A late-running train is considered a sign of the degradation of society.


quod erat demonstrandum

[Skybird]

Since I complained about the Berliner S-Bahn so much, this news is just in (Der Tagesspiegel). The complete S-Bahn traffic has just collapsed and came to a complete standstill. Even the internal communication links have broken down, the drivers need to use their private cellphones.

This could be due a technical major issue in one of the technical key-hotspots, maybe caused by the constant underfunding and thus lacking maintenance which plagues the S-Bahn since years and at times had over 60% of its trains taken out of action without repalcements for the missing trains in the ongoing traffic scheme (causing to 2 hours delays and more where trains should drive every 15 minutes or so, and then being hopelessly overcrowded).

It could also be the result of another attack on the S-Bahn, because since several weeks a leftist anarchist gang chases the company by laying fires and damaging trains and tracks.

But this today - is a total breakdown of the complete network.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Your trains can be cancelled or late, but it is only when you wait patiently, tutting quietly as you glance at your watch do you become British.

:03:

[Skybird]

They now say it is an electricity blackout. Trains stand still, passangers are trapped inside.

Betonov, skip Berlin and drive to Lübeck instead. Much nicier and gemütlicher an oldtown, I tell you! :DL My favourite town on Earth.

[Jimbuna]

They now say it is an electricity blackout. Trains stand still, passangers are trapped inside.

Betonov, skip Berlin and drive to Lübeck instead. Much nicier and gemütlicher an oldtown, I tell you! :DL My favourite town on Earth.

Not a city but the nicest place I've been to in Germany was St. Goarshausen:

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Germany/Land_Rheinland_Pfalz/Sankt_Goarshausen-22494/TravelGuide-Sankt_Goarshausen.html

[Betonov]

Your trains can be cancelled or late, but it is only when you wait patiently, tutting quietly as you glance at your watch do you become British.

:03:

Every Slovenian that ever traveled by train or bus in this god forsaken country is by your definiton British :DL

[Betonov]

Oh well, sorry to disapoint everyone but I got a rota virus (whatever that is) and I'm having a love affair with the toilet for the last 20 hours :cry: So Berlin is out of the question :cry: No drunken sailor travel guide folks :cry:

[Sailor Steve]

Just get better. Berlin can always be re-slotted. Your health can't.

[Jimbuna]

Oh well, sorry to disapoint everyone but I got a rota virus (whatever that is) and I'm having a love affair with the toilet for the last 20 hours :cry: So Berlin is out of the question :cry: No drunken sailor travel guide folks :cry:

Try my tried and tested cure...a bottle of rum and a lamb vindaloo :03:

[Betonov]

Try my tried and tested cure...a bottle of rum and a lamb vindaloo :03:

I did a diferent version, honey schnaps (incorectly also known as mead) and prosciuto. I stoped throwing up, but the other end is still problematic

[Schroeder]

but the other end is still problematic
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/54/1012554/3633643030383536.jpg
Problem solved.:yeah:

(yes... very helpfull, I know....)

[Jimbuna]

I did a diferent version, honey schnaps (incorectly also known as mead) and prosciuto. I stoped throwing up, but the other end is still problematic

I reckon I could cope with the schnaps but I'm not so sure about the Parma/dried ham :hmmm:

[PhantomLord]

@Skybird: i dont know when you where here last time... get your wall out of your head.
What i must read about my home town for 35 years now? :nope: And especially this east-west thing... Berlin is united for over 20 years now with all its ups and downs.


@Betonov
Berlin is a must see. Yeah... we have dirty places and some problems with our public service. But here you will find so much history and good people. So much museums from medieval times up to the cold war. And not to forget a rich, rich night life influenced by all cultures. You want some original irish Whisky after your delicious Currywurst or Sushi or whatever? Its just around the corner.
There´s no reason to stay at home and be scared of the bad guys.

True... the native Berliner (if you really have the luck to find one) is a bit grumpy sometimes. But warm hearted and mostly able and willing to help. And if not... try the next one :D

And if our S-Bahn is out of order... we still have U-Bahn (subway / metro / underground), Buses and Tramway... you are nearly always mobile in Berlin.

Just come over and enjoy your time. :up:

- "Unter den Linden" and "Brandenburger Tor" at night (just round the corner the last pieces of "the wall").

- Technikmuseum (http://www.sdtb.de/English.122.0.html)

- Treptower Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treptower_Park)

- more to come...

[Wreford-Brown]

Apologies for the double post, but this belongs here as well as Onkel Neal's Berlin vacation thread:

In my preference order:
Boat trips. They run regular boat trips up and down the river/canal system which the story of Berlin in WW2 and the Cold War. Check the notice boards and they'll tell you when the trips are being run with an English speaking tour. Trips range from 60 mins to 2 hours and are a great introduction before you walk round the city.

Reichstag (Bundestag). The queues can be long but you can pre-book yourself in for lunch at the restaurant on the roof. You jump all of the queues and go straight to the restaurant, eat lunch then can look around all you want. The lunch itself is not too expensive - about what you'd expect for food in the city. Good for 2 hours (including lunch)

Berlin Wall Memorial. They have revamped a section of the Berlin Wall so it looks like it did during the bad old days, plus there's a high building next to it so you can look over and see into the area. Good for a couple of hours.

Topographie des Terrors. This is a relatively new exhibition which is based around the old SS HQ in Berlin (which was bombed to the ground, although you can see some of the old foundations). It outlines the atrocities committed by the Nazis during their reign and is a bilingual exhibition. Well worth a visit, and one of the longest unbroken stretches of the old Berlin Wall is right next to it. Good for a few hours.

Brandenberg Gate. Definitely something to see while you're walking around.

Check Point Charlie. There's a small museum dedicated to escapes over the years including some of the more innovative ones. If you don't want to pay for the museum, try looking on the billboards which run along the line of the old wall in that area - they contain most of the history and are bilingual.

Alexanderplatz. The centre of old East Germany. For great views across the city go up the TV tower (with a decent camera). Good for a couple of hours.

All of the above you can cover in a (long) day on foot. If you have more time and want to see something outside the city centre:

Sachsenhausen (Oranienberg). We found out about this by accident. Oranienberg was an old SS garrison town with the Berlin concentration camp in it. It's not a death camp but originally held all of the political prisoners from Berlin before being expanded towards the end of the war. It was in the old Soviet sector and the Russians used it for their political prisoners and put a large war memorial in it, so you get WW2 and cold war history together in one place. We intended to go for a couple of hours but spent a full day there - it's about 1 hours drive from the city centre. It's a part of Berlin that fewer tourists get to see.

Luftwaffe museum. About 45mins west of the city centre (but within the city limits) the Luftwaffe museum is on the airfield that serviced the Berlin airlift. Mixture of aircraft - a few WW2, a number of Cold War and quite a few eastern block aircraft that I hadn't seen elsewhere. Quite a few helicopters including Hind and Hip, which I've seen in action but never been close enough to almost touch. Good for a few hours.

Schloss Charlottenburg. The largest palace in Berlin. Great building and gardens but it was bombed in WW2 and most of the internal furnishings and paintings were destroyed / stolen so it was a disappointment. If time is tight, avoid the disappointment.

The best way to see Berlin is to walk around it - we walked everywhere and found some real gems, from small hidden-away public gardens to walking around a corner to find some serious bullet holes in buildings where the area was obviously hard fought over. The best places for this are along the old Berlin Wall demilitarised zone.