Torpedo Options

[TheRoadTrain]

Does changing between magnetic/inpact selection on your torpedo increase its chance when in stormy weather to actually impact the target instead of exploding on its way to the target? :hmmm:
Also which is best for inflicting most damage, going under the ships hull or straight into the side?:hmmm:
Cause ive noticed on some of the bigger merchants it sometimes takes 1 eel to drop them and the smaller merchants takes 2 :06:

Thanks people :salute:

[Pisces]

I'm not sure if magnetics are more vulnerable for bad weather while still on their way. (premature explosions) But in bad weather the target bobs up and down on the waves, making it possible to leap over the magnetic torpedo passing underneath. Torpedo's with pistol setting might have similar problems where the torpedo hits the curved part of the hull causing a dud. Therefore aim shallow with pistols if there are severe waves.

[Captain Nemo]

I never use magnetics in rough weather as they tend to explode prematurely or completely miss the target. The weather has to be relatively calm before I even consider their use.

Nemo

[Jimbuna]

I always use impacts set at a shallow setting in stormy weather.

[Sailor Steve]

It's too bad the real kaleuns didn't have that option. There was no switch that let you select one or the other, or at least not until 1944. Disabling the magnetic pistol required removing it from the torpedo, a process that took at least an hour. Once the order was given in 1940 to remove them they were all removed, and not replaced until the new version came out late in 1943.

[Jimbuna]

Very true....but the game is a lesser PITA :DL

[Gargamel]

There are also theories on using magnetics in calm weather in near 90' AOB. DR and I have had some good discussions on it. It all depends on the size o the boat, the speed of the eel and the difference in deIpth

[TheRoadTrain]

Ok I will start using impact selection in the rough.. Is it normally best to aim at the Stern of the vessel to cripple it or is there better sweet spots to aim for?

[VONHARRIS]

I don't use magnetic pistols at all.
I hate the premature detonations , although - in game - they don't give you away.

As for the aim point:
If the target is small then I aim at the center.
For bigger targets I fire one at the center and one at the bow of the target.
For capital warhips it is a 4 bow shot from bow to stern.

[Jimbuna]

BE MORE AGgRESSIVE!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[TheRoadTrain]

Yip right'o guys, thanks heaps for the advice :up:
I might have to give the deck gun abit more of a work out aswell :salute:

[PapaKilo]

In later years pre-mature magnetic pistol torpedo explosions greatly decreases. If the weather is calm it's a deadly drug for bigger ships :)

I usually like to brake a medium cargo apart this way, aiming the area just below the chimney :shucks:

[PapaKilo]

It's too bad the real kaleuns didn't have that option. There was no switch that let you select one or the other, or at least not until 1944. Disabling the magnetic pistol required removing it from the torpedo, a process that took at least an hour. Once the order was given in 1940 to remove them they were all removed, and not replaced until the new version came out late in 1943.

Wow, I didin't knew this. Where did you read about it ? Could you give me a link to the source ?

[PapaKilo]

Thanks but it wasn't exactly what I wanted :haha:

I want the source where as Steve said torpedo pistol had to be manually set to impact/magnetic on the torpedo itself and it took about an hour to do that.

[Sailor Steve]

The part about it taking an hour came from a source posted here back when I was homeless, and unable to save the link. The original poster also provided photographs, but I don't have those either. Perhaps you'll be happier with this source, which says it couldn't be done at all.

Since it was not yet possible to switch the pistols between the AZ and MZ settings, to overcome this problem the TI recommended that against such targets of less than 3,000 tons only torpedoes with the AZ type pistol be used.
In any case, the order had little to no impact, at least at first. At the time U-boats carried torpedoes equipped with either the MZ or AZ pistol. The option that would later allow the commander to interchange these settings while on patrol had not yet come into being, so whatever setting the pistol was set to when delivered to the boat was what it was stuck with for the duration of the patrol.
http://eaglescholar.georgiasouthern.edu:8080/jspui/bitstream/10518/3627/1/Wright_David_H_201005_MA.pdf (http://eaglescholar.georgiasouthern.edu:8080/jspui/bitstream/10518/3627/1/Wright_David_H_201005_MA.pdf)

Pages 47-48.

[PapaKilo]

Very interesting link, thanks a lot :yeah:

[desirableroasted]

There are also theories on using magnetics in calm weather in near 90' AOB. DR and I have had some good discussions on it. It all depends on the size o the boat, the speed of the eel and the difference in deIpth

And I have slowly come around to your view that magnetics work at about AOB 90, though your torpedo should be set to the slowest speed. And they do seem to cause the most damage at a much narrower angle. Difference in depth, though seems to be the most significant factor.

One thing players often forget is that all magnetics are ALSO impacts. By making the switch to impact, you take away (I am told) the dice roll that might lead your mag-set torpedo to prematurely explode. You also can do it a second before you launch, which is obviously not right.

I am sure some of the historians can offer advice here. For now, I set all tubes to magnetic, since I can use them either way, and take my chances on the prematures.

[Gargamel]

I Have found on a couple occasions that having the eels run too fast and too deep caused them to detonate on the far side of the target, which did result in confusing the merchants in the convoy. Upon the detonations, they started searching with their search lights in the opposite direction. I'm not sure if the escorts werre confused or not, but they did not jump on me right away. Then again, it was probably early war and they may not have found me any ways.

But to be honest, it is not a tactic I recommend, as the risk of missing completely is too high, and the reduced damage from such an hit doesnt seem to be worth it. Perhaps if one were to be able to land a few crippling shots on some big targets and have them drop out of formation, and the misdirection allows for easier evasion and subsequent reload, then it may be worth it, but that's still a lot of if's.

[PapaKilo]

It's too bad the real kaleuns didn't have that option. There was no switch that let you select one or the other, or at least not until 1944. Disabling the magnetic pistol required removing it from the torpedo, a process that took at least an hour. Once the order was given in 1940 to remove them they were all removed, and not replaced until the new version came out late in 1943.

I must notice Sailor Steve spoke a nonsence on this topic :) If you ever read the document yourself Mister, you should know that in page 51 there is following text:

Back in Germany, the TI had in the meantime been working on a way to alter the torpedo
pistol so that it might be set for either AZ or MZ detonation. By the end of September, it had
come up with such a device, which was known as Schalterstellung A (Switch Setting A). The
introduction of the device to the fleet on October 2 came just in time, as it now made it possible
to carry out Dönitz***8217; previous orders that all boats were to fire using only the AZ setting. A new
directive to this effect was issued to the fleet.69 The downside to this order, however, was that
although it theoretically gave the German U-boats a way to switch to a more reliable detonation,
the resultant AZ induced explosion lacked the sheer destructive power of the MZ type. Hence
the Schalterstellung A was never considered by anyone to be a permanent fix to the torpedo
problem, but rather a temporary emergency measure to buy the TI some time in which to perfect
the MZ type, which had always been envisioned by the Marineleitung as being the primary
detonator system for the U-boat. In any event, from October 2 onwards boats equipped with
pistols using the Schalterstellung A option were to use only the AZ option until further notice.

So literrraly speaking this was very short period of time - The first MONTH of the war during which U-boats could not switch pistols AZ-MZ and vice versa :O:

[PapaKilo]

However I must admit I would never realized the mass of malfunctioned torpedoes Kriegsmarine had especially with MZ pistol without this document.

Perhaps H.sie was right while introducing his torpedo fix. On the other hand I never trust MZ pistol in early war anyway.

After reading it all I might reconsider using that fix.

[Sailor Steve]

Fair enough. I missed that part, and I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong.

On the other hand, there is no need for this kind of rudeness:
I must notice Sailor Steve spoke a nonsence on this topic :) If you ever read the document yourself Mister, you should know that in page 51 there is following text:

[PapaKilo]

Attack ? :haha: Are you on nervous exhaustion ? Nonsence is nonsence, that's all.

So just to let you know.
Even if I tried, I couldn't care less how you take it :shucks:

[Sailor Steve]

I made a mistake. I admitted it. Exactly how is a mistake nonsense? You started in on me in your first post, being rude rather than polite. Your dismissive use of the phrase "if you ever read the document yourself mister" is a prime example of the way you do these things. How I take it is irrelevant. It was this kind of behaviour that got you brigged last time.

Please act like a gentleman with respect to other members on this board.

[makman94]

.....with respect to other members on this board.

See Steve?
rudeness is very annoying thing when happening ,no matter who has the right or not.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm well aware of that, and, as I told you privately, I try to stay on top of it.

On that subject, the person you were upset about has buried the hatchet and is playing nicely now. He also admitted that much of it was his fault, so things are better on that frontier.

[makman94]

....I try to stay on top of it.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[PapaKilo]

I made a mistake. I admitted it. Exactly how is a mistake nonsense? You started in on me in your first post, being rude rather than polite. Your dismissive use of the phrase "if you ever read the document yourself mister" is a prime example of the way you do these things. How I take it is irrelevant. It was this kind of behaviour that got you brigged last time.

Please act like a gentleman with respect to other members on this board.

You admitted it because you had no other option. Frankly speaking I think you didin't even read it all aren't you ? =]

But no you just can't backdown peacefully even when you are wrong, without escalating things to outside matters! :-?


Those following gripes of yours I take as insignifical attempt to draw attention to yourself as being a poor victim of my rudiness or impoliteness ? :haha: Just because I put your statement into nonsense ?
Oh man, can all of this stuff you take everywhere with you be more childish ? Knowing your age, your acting makes fun of you realy :)

[LGN1]

Hi,

IIRC, the pistol could not be changed when the torpedo was inside the tube. In this respect SH3 is wrong.

BTW, PapaKilo, some time ago I posted a link to the document in h.sie's thread and asked you to read it

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1780740&postcount=2567

Maybe you should have read it back then before attacking h.sie's work.

Cheers, LGN1

[PapaKilo]

Hi,

IIRC, the pistol could not be changed when the torpedo was inside the tube. In this respect SH3 is wrong.

BTW, PapaKilo, some time ago I posted a link to the document in h.sie's thread and asked you to read it

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1780740&postcount=2567

Maybe you should have read it back then before attacking h.sie's work.

Cheers, LGN1

IIRC the argue was about how many duds in total % Kriegsmarine had, and how should this number be divided to every uboat. You and H.sie stated it was around 30 % of all torps that malfunctioned, I stated it was 50 % according to documentary source I gave a name of. Nevertheless I never was into such close readings about torpedo malfunctions as I am now.

IIRC you gave me the link to german languaged document that I don't understand ?

[Jimbuna]

You admitted it because you had no other option. Frankly speaking I think you didin't even read it all aren't you ? =]

But no you just can't backdown peacefully even when you are wrong, without escalating things to outside matters! :-?


Those following gripes of yours I take as insignifical attempt to draw attention to yourself as being a poor victim of my rudiness or impoliteness ? :haha: Just because I put your statement into nonsense ?
Oh man, can all of this stuff you take everywhere with you be more childish ? Knowing your age, your acting makes fun of you realy :)

Can we steer away from the realm of insults toward community members please?

I'm in no way taking sides but let us agree to disagree without resorting to name calling and innuendo.

TIA

[PapaKilo]

Hi,

IIRC, the pistol could not be changed when the torpedo was inside the tube. In this respect SH3 is wrong.



I made a quick search in google on how Schalterstellung A worked in practice, but with no decent results so far :(

[Sailor Steve]

You admitted it because you had no other option. Frankly speaking I think you didin't even read it all aren't you ? =]
That's true to a point. I was wrong. That's simple enough.

But no you just can't backdown peacefully even when you are wrong, without escalating things to outside matters! :-?
No, you were on the attack from the beginning. It's what you do that gets you into trouble. The two are not connected.


Those following gripes of yours I take as insignifical attempt to draw attention to yourself as being a poor victim of my rudiness or impoliteness ? :haha: Just because I put your statement into nonsense ?
Oh man, can all of this stuff you take everywhere with you be more childish ? Knowing your age, your acting makes fun of you realy :)
I'm not a victim at all. Rather than discuss thing honestly you kick people every chance you get. I'm glad to make fun of myself. You, on the other hand, only make fun of others, and you do it in the meanest manner possible. I admit that I'm wrong, and laugh at myself most of the time. This seems to be something you're not capable of.

[PapaKilo]

Can we steer away from the realm of insults toward community members please?

I'm in no way taking sides but let us agree to disagree without resorting to name calling and innuendo.

TIA

Don't say that you don't take sides quoting my post :nope:

[PapaKilo]

I admit that I'm wrong, and laugh at myself most of the time. This seems to be something you're not capable of.

As I get to know you with time, I think it's the most you do all the time, becoming wrong and having fun :)

But if somebody shows how you your look in the mirror you get really pissed :haha:

This is because there is a missmatch in what you say and how you feel =]

[Sailor Steve]

As I get to know you with time, I think it's the most you do all the time, becoming wrong and having fun :)

But if somebody shows how you your look in the mirror you get really pissed :haha:

This is because there is a missmatch in what you say and how you feel =]
Am I that way now? How do you know what I feel? On the other hand do you ever admit to being wrong about anything? No, I'm not upset about being wrong, or about being corrected. On the other hand I don't spend my entire time here making fun of people and trying to get them angry. It seems to be all you know how to do. It's why you have a reputation for being a troll, and why you've been banned before, and brigged so many times.

[Jimbuna]

Don't say that you don't take sides quoting my post :nope:

I quoted your post as an example of the last exchange and said post had examples of innuendo and statements of potential conflict based within.

Can we not all get along together...minus the angst?

[PapaKilo]

I quoted your post as an example of the last exchange and said post had examples of innuendo and statements of potential conflict based within.

Can we not all get along together...minus the angst?

Don't know, you should ask Steve first. He's our touchy soul here =]

[Jimbuna]

Don't know, you should ask Steve first. He's our touchy soul here =]

Well let us all just try to get along.

No problem with debating differing opinions but name calling and personal attacks (should they occur) are in direct violation of the community rules.

Let us all simply get along together.

[PapaKilo]

Am I that way now? How do you know what I feel? On the other hand do you ever admit to being wrong about anything? No, I'm not upset about being wrong, or about being corrected. On the other hand I don't spend my entire time here making fun of people and trying to get them angry. It seems to be all you know how to do. It's why you have a reputation for being a troll, and why you've been banned before, and brigged so many times.

:haha: I tell how this works. If there was anyone else but me that corrected you it would be fine. But you own this kind of complex that it was me - A BAAAD TROLL that made you blush.. So you acknowledged that you was wrong but, occused me about how I did it as a worst case to embitter the whole matter. And you do this all the time BTW :) I think you are a TROLL who never wanted to be a TROLL.
Main difference between us is that I'm a TROLL and I never give a damn about it :) Why ? Because there will always be someone who will do it for you :haha:

[PapaKilo]

Well let us all just try to get along.

No problem with debating differing opinions but name calling and personal attacks (should they occur) are in direct violation of the community rules.

Let us all simply get along together.

Sounds nice, I think I can do that now :)

[Sailor Steve]

:haha: I tell how this works. If there was anyone else but me that corrected you it would be fine. But you own this kind of complex that it was me - A BAAAD TROLL that made you blush.. So you acknowledged that you was wrong but, occused me about how I did it as a worst case to embitter the whole matter. And you do this all the time BTW :) I think you are a TROLL who never wanted to be a TROLL.
Main difference between us is that I'm a TROLL and I never give a damn about it :) Why ? Because there will always be someone who will do it for you :haha:
No, it's a matter of the old saying "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." All you would ever have to do is stop pissing on people every chance you get, and try to act like you really want to be a part of the community. If you acted like a civilized human being you would quickly find me acting like a friend and supporter.

That said, in an earlier post you just finished saying that my problem was that I hated being wrong. Now you say I would take it from anyone else, but not you. So which is it?

Yes, I can act in an improper manner just as easily as anyone else. The difference is that I try not to, and try to apologize when I do, whereas you seem to revel in jerking people around, and take pride in it.

[desirableroasted]

I thought we were fighting the Allies?

Seriously, I come here to ask and learn about game tactics, mods, war stories.

Can we take the private beefs into private chat?

[Jimbuna]

I thought we were fighting the Allies?

Seriously, I come here to ask and learn about game tactics, mods, war stories.

Can we take the private beefs into private chat?

Consider that done...:sunny:

[Gargamel]

I thought we were fighting the Allies?

Seriously, I come here to ask and learn about game tactics, mods, war stories.

Can we take the private beefs into private chat?

Snicker.

Popcorn DR?

[desirableroasted]

Snicker.

Popcorn DR?

Thanks, Gargles. And, here, have some Milk Duds.

[Dbledip]

Sailor Steve;


Thanks for link to the paper written by David Wright. This paper is a very interesting read up to Chapter 7 Explaining the Torpedo Crisis. Definitely felt the frustrations of the U-boat captains with the faulty torpedoes and the TVA.

My screaming "Another DUD!" at my monitor is nothing compared what these men went through especially with the MZ's early detonations alerting DD's to their locations and subject them to a punishing depth charge attack.

[maillemaker]

http://eaglescholar.georgiasouthern.edu:8080/jspui/bitstream/10518/3627/1/Wright_David_H_201005_MA.pdf

Cool link, and it's from my Alma Mater!

Steve

[TheRoadTrain]

I don't use magnetic pistols at all.
I hate the premature detonations , although - in game - they don't give you away.

As for the aim point:
If the target is small then I aim at the center.
For bigger targets I fire one at the center and one at the bow of the target.
For capital warhips it is a 4 bow shot from bow to stern.

Ive been using impact pistol and setting the torpedo depth to about 2m and enjoying some great results in all kinds of weather, thanks for the advice.
When the TIII electric torpedo becomes available were the premature detonations solved?

[VONHARRIS]

Ive been using impact pistol and setting the torpedo depth to about 2m and enjoying some great results in all kinds of weather, thanks for the advice.
When the TIII electric torpedo becomes available were the premature detonations solved?

In R/L I think pretty much yes.
As for the game I don't know.
I have edited the basic.cfg as to all loads are TIs.
I have also added much more renown for aquiring a TIV or TV torpedo.
So if I want a homing torp I have to pay for it.