45,000 to evacuate Koblenz, Germany, for defusing of WWII-era bomb

[MothBalls]

The bomb, packed with 3,000 pounds of explosives and believed to have been dropped by the British Royal Air Force, was discovered in the Rhine River after water levels dropped recently because of a lack of rain, Stars and Stripes reported.

The bomb, which officials said was one of the largest unexploded bombs ever found, was discovered along with other unexploded ordnance in the river.http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/12/01/45000-to-evacuate-for-defusing-of-WWII-era-bomb/UPI-36461322754357/

I wouldn't want to be the EOD guy trying to diffuse this thing. I guess exploding it isn't an option because of the damage it would cause. The story said it would blow out windows in a 1/2 mile radius.

[Schroeder]

They find dud bombs in Germany pretty much every day, but I've never heard of such a large one before.:o

I wonder how much stuff is still buried in the ground.:dead:

[Platapus]

EOD could either burn it in place or render it safe with an explosive tool.

If it has not gone off after almost 70 years of being affected by currents and other factors, it is unlikely to go off.

From the crappy description (lack of) in the article, the bomb may be the AN-M56 light case bomb. It is the only one with an explosive load near 3,000 pounds (assuming the reporter knew what he or she was talking about. The only information in the various articles is the weight of the bomb. But the "weight" can mean different things.

If if is an AN-M56, it is actually an American bomb used by the RAF so the technical information will be available to EOD. It may be equipped with both a nose fuze (M-102) and a base fuze (M-103), neither of which would give EOD much problem.

Woot! Finally a reason I saved my EOD manuals. I knew they would come in handy one of these days! :O:

The problem seems to be that it appears from the article that German civilian EOD will be working on this instead of military EOD.


City officials said Wednesday they were still planning how to defuse the bomb.
Explosive ordnance disposal troops from the 21st Theater Sustainment Command in Grafenwoehr and Mannheim will be available to provide support if necessary, a 21st TSC spokeswoman said.


Don't know if that will be a good idea. If they were smart, they would contract with British EOD to come over and render it safe. Brit EOD are pretty damn good :salute:


What the need to do is find the people of the British Ordnance Collectors Network www.bocn.co.uk They would know if anyone would :yeah:

[Platapus]

They find dud bombs in Germany pretty much every day, but I've never heard of such a large one before.:o

I wonder how much stuff is still buried in the ground.:dead:

Germany finds about 2,000 tons of unexploded ordnance a year. A lot of the stuff found is being found in what was East Germany.

We dropped a lot of boomy things on Germany during our last disagreement.

[gimpy117]

Imagine the bricks being Shat by the poor guys who have to defuse it

[Cohaagen]

I doubt it's an American bomb. 3000lb is the explosive content of one of the RAF's own "Cookie" designs - the AN M56 is actually a copy of it. There's no guarantee it's safe either. Several bomb disposal techs were killed defusing a similar-sized weapon in Germany a year or two ago.

Also, I suspect British EOD are rather more familiar with making safe German bombs, for obvious reasons, and I hate to think how desperate the German army would have to be before they got in touch with a load of ordnance collectors!

[Platapus]

Be nice if the press would publish a picture of the bomb. That would clear it up. :yeah: The key would be fins. :yep:

[danasan]

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/01518/kami_koblenz__DW_V_1518921p.jpg

from what I read in the German papers, here is a similar one. It's what we call a "Luftmine" and it seems to be 1.800 kg (4.000 pounds) heavy.

http://www.insuedthueringen.de/storage/pic/intern/import/dpa/juniorline/news/aktuell/1599848_1_jpeg-147EFC004E65DED7-20111130-img_33823948.original.large-4-3-800-363-29-2247-1441.jpg

Here is the "guy" with a yellow sign on it...

http://lars-mueller.mobi/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Heilbronn-blindgaenger.jpg

another similar one...

[Jimbuna]

They find dud bombs in Germany pretty much every day, but I've never heard of such a large one before.:o

I wonder how much stuff is still buried in the ground.:dead:

Your forgetting the Tallboy (12,000 lbs) :03:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallboy_(bomb)

[CCIP]

Your forgetting the Tallboy (12,000 lbs) :03:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallboy_(bomb)

And let's also not forge the Grand Slam (22,000 lbs)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_bomb

[Oberon]

Yeah, but I think Schroeder means that it's the largest UXB he's heard of.

I think we've found most of the presents from the Luftwaffe here, but some stuff crop up from time to time, one got dredged up by a fishing boat a few years back just offshore from here. Made a rather hefty bang when they detonated it.
Half of the UXO around here though is British or American. :oops:

[Jimbuna]

And let's also not forge the Grand Slam (22,000 lbs)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_bomb

I had actually :DL

:oops:

[Herr-Berbunch]

If they were smart, they would contract with British EOD to come over and render it safe. Brit EOD are pretty damn good.

Yep, but they still can't go through red lights with their blue lights flashing and sirens blaring. :nope:


Also, I suspect British EOD are rather more familiar with making safe German bombs, for obvious reasons, and I hate to think how desperate the German army would have to be before they got in touch with a load of ordnance collectors!

The current crop of EOD guys are experienced with both side's bombs, as they are often employed to visit disused bombing ranges in the UK. Nowadays only practice bombs are used on mainland ranges but this wasn't always the case...

Hang on... found it -

The vast majority of the RAF's EOC is conducted by 5131 (BD) Squadron (the rest by STC Non-Formed Unit EOD personnel) and the burden in terms of manpower and expense has been significant. Since the mid-1990s, the Squadron has been clearing five permanently manned sites located around the UK: Braidfell near Stranraer, Chilmark near Salisbury, Cowden near Hull, Goswick Sands near Berwick-upon-Tweed, and Theddlethorpe near the Humber Estuary. With the exception of RAF Chilmark (a former Explosive Storage Area) the sites are former Air Weapons Ranges, established during the Second World War and continued in use until shortly before clearance commenced. The sites have proved extremely costly to clear and are, on average, only around 30% complete. (Source (http://www.defencemanagement.com/article.asp?id=241&content_name=Modernising%20Defence&article=6426))

[Oberon]

Yeah, Orford Ness was a bombing range through both the wars and then a OTH radar and Nuclear weapon casing stress testing facility after them.
And if that wasn't enough, the entire area on the south side of the river here was closed by the army and the villagers moved out during WWII and it was taken over as a testing range, where mock-ups of the Atlantic wall were built and Hobarts Funnys given the job of trying to break it. Enemy fire was provided by a cruiser sitting off the coast, although it did fire in the wrong direction once and shelled the town I live in which was still populated by civilians (and quite a few soldiers, and a couple of coastal guns). Fortunately no-one was killed but a house was demolished.

So yeah, there's still a lot of stuff lying around here, but thankfully most of it has been cleared away over the years.

[Takeda Shingen]

That's a whole lot of boom. I'll never understand how guys on bomb disposal teams, or police bomb squads for that matter, think. My first instinct is to get as far away from explosives as possible. Thank goodness we've got people like them around. :up:

[Skybird]

They evacuate everyone inside a circle with 1.8 km in radius, including a state prison and a hospital. I cannot help it, but it sounds exaggerated to me. It's not an atomic bomb, or what...!? And it is not located in an elevated place, but in fact quite hidden quite deep, in a river bed (they found it only because the autumn has been exremely dry over here and the waterline in many rivers is extremely low). Maybe I just don't hear the starting shot, but it sounds excessive to me.

[Schroeder]

They evacuate everyone inside a circle with 1.8 km in radius, including a state prison and a hospital. I cannot help it, but it sounds exaggerated to me. It's not an atomic bomb, or what...!? And it is not located in an elevated place, but in fact quite hidden quite deep, in a river bed (they found it only because the autumn has been exremely dry over here and the waterline in many rivers is extremely low). Maybe I just don't hear the starting shot, but it sounds excessive to me.
How excessive would the reaction be if anyone got hurt in a failed defusing attempt.;)
I say better safe than sorry.

[Herr-Berbunch]

They evacuate everyone inside a circle with 1.8 km in radius, including a state prison and a hospital. I cannot help it, but it sounds exaggerated to me. It's not an atomic bomb, or what...!? And it is not located in an elevated place, but in fact quite hidden quite deep, in a river bed (they found it only because the autumn has been exremely dry over here and the waterline in many rivers is extremely low). Maybe I just don't hear the starting shot, but it sounds excessive to me.

How much explosive would it take to fire a small chunk of casing almost that far? I know the odds are astronomical, but is it really worth the risk? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

How much explosive would it take to fire a small chunk of casing almost that far? I know the odds are astronomical, but is it really worth the risk? :hmmm:

Definitely not...the damage claims would be astronomical and automatic wins imho.

[Madox58]

A few years ago, just a few miles south of me, a group were setting off home made fireworks.
A part of a caseing used to launch the fireworks flew through a crowd of several hundred and killed a person far away from the explosion.
A direct shot to the head.
When any type explosive is involved? Better safe then sorry.
And have you seen some of the EOD Guys shirts?
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/18.jpg

[Jimbuna]

You ugly bar steward :D

[Platapus]

That's a whole lot of boom. I'll never understand how guys on bomb disposal teams, or police bomb squads for that matter, think. My first instinct is to get as far away from explosives as possible. Thank goodness we've got people like them around. :up:

Just remember that EOD troops are highly trained and understand that explosives and ordinance are not things to be feared, but simply material that follows the laws of physics. There is a desensitizing aspect of EOD training. At least it was in the military.

I have to admit that I was surprised at the attitudes of EOD troops. Off mission you probably won't find a more cocky arrogant group of jerks. But on mission, everyone is professional.. They have to be. The motto of Air Force EOD is "Initial Success or Total Failure" you don't get too many chances to make a mistake. :o

Not saying that I was never scared working on ordnance, I was. But the knowledge that we had created a familiarity with the ordnance that helped remove some of the fear.

When you are on a mission, you are really focused on all the technical aspects of the operation and you really don't have a lot of time to be afraid. It is after the op that the fear sometimes gets you. And that is why EOD also stands for Every One Drinks. :up:

[Platapus]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/18.jpg

The problem with that T-shirt is that EOD, like Fire Fighters are often running in the wrong direction -- toward the hazard.

[sidslotm]

To think there are people out there building big bombs, just for me in case we disagree :up:

[CCIP]

All's well that ends well - the bomb has been successfully defused :up:

[Jimbuna]

http://pidge2571.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/unsafe-bomb-disposal-830.jpg

[frau kaleun]

http://pidge2571.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/unsafe-bomb-disposal-830.jpg

CLEAN UP ON AISLE SEVEN and has anybody got an extra pair of knickers?

[Skybird]

All's well that ends well - the bomb has been successfully defused :up:

It were TWO bombs (a British and a smaller American one), plus a German smoke "bomb" that was meant to cover the bridge back in that war. The latter device was intentionally exploded.

[Platapus]

http://pidge2571.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/unsafe-bomb-disposal-830.jpg

So not funny


But it kinda is. :D

[Kongo Otto]

The problem seems to be that it appears from the article that German civilian EOD will be working on this instead of military EOD.


Thats because of the federal structure of Germany and the Allied Occupation both established after WW2.
All the EX-Wehrmacht EOD teams had to be put somewhere, as there was no german Army after WW2.
Every German State has them, its called Kampfmittelräumdienst (iirc its called Bomb disposal unit in english) so they belong to the German Police force, also there are private Companies (mostly Ex Military EOD) in Bavaria which are on the behalf of the Bavarian Government and in Hamburg the Bomb disposal unit is part of the Fire department.

[merc4ulfate]

I saw a photo of the bomb partially out of the water ... the drop in the river that day made it easy to see ... it looked like one of the old dma busting bombs the English used during WW2

http://bdnpull.bangorpublishing.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Germany-Bomb-Evacuation_001-600x399.jpg

[Oberon]

It was a Blockbuster bomb.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Raf_ww2_bombs.jpg

The 4000lb variety to be precise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_bomb

No wonder they evacuated so many people, those things are meant to take out city blocks, hence the name. :dead:

[Oberon]

Just discovered this on wiki whilst looking at the Grand Slam:

A live Grand Slam bomb was accidentally displayed as a gate guardian at RAF Scampton for over a decade before the mistake was realised. It was gingerly removed (by crane and low-loader) to the test range at Shoeburyness, where it was detonated.

:har::har::har:

[danasan]

Just discovered this on wiki whilst looking at the Grand Slam:



:har::har::har:

Thanks God it was only a Grand Slam... :dead:

Not too much damage one would cause...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/U-Boat_Pen_Grand_Slammed.jpg/420px-U-Boat_Pen_Grand_Slammed.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_bomb)

[Jimbuna]

LOL :DL

[Catfish]

Or maybe it's just an old boiler ? :hmmm:

Anyone read "The english patient" ?
Lot of defusing bombs in there explained well, and several tricks installed to kill defusers as well. Some had timeshift fuses, so after the bombers were away for hours, and the first people began to look and search the rubble for survivors, it would kill them the with a delay. Or two kinds of fuses, one obvious to remove, the other then beginning to start when the fake one was removed. Some real ingenuity when it comes to killing people, especially civilians.
This "Luftmine" or block buster is especially vicious, since it destroyed the lungs of people not being in shelters, for more than a kilometer (radius).
No wonder so much people have to be evacuated in a densely populated area.
Imagine hundreds of those dropped over one city ..

[Rilder]

That's a whole lot of boom. I'll never understand how guys on bomb disposal teams, or police bomb squads for that matter, think. My first instinct is to get as far away from explosives as possible. Thank goodness we've got people like them around. :up:

Of course, these days, it probably helps to have all kinds of fancy robots and such to send in instead of actual people. :O: