O'Kane technique,observation.

[mobucks]

As I only started using this excellent technique two days ago, I've since come to a conclusion:
The TDC data we input is essentially a "snapshot" of what the PK solution would be at for a zero degree gyro angle shot, if we were using the PK with (at least close to) 100% correct data inputs.
Therefore, I attempted to refine my technique a bit by not adhering to the exact steps outlined in Rockin'Robbin's tutorial, such as closing to <1000m of the target's track, or
"pulling down the red arrow as low as it will go"(For the life of me, I cannot move that damn red arrow, only the inner wheel) and instead opted to input the exact range as measured from the boat to the target track at 90deg. The result is that this technique works from any range. I suspect that RRs method is to further simplify things for us skippers, but for those that want to use this technique without driving so close, and maintain that realism feeling of having vital parts "pass the wire" as we fire, there you have it. If you have a resonably accurate plot of the target track, the steps involved are all the same, except for the range. Just manually turn the wheel to the distance from boat to track at that step.

PS forgive me if this is being trite, I'm still kind of new here and haven't been here for all the discussions. I just noticed a few posts saying that they diddn't use O'kane method since it "required" being too close for their comfort to track. It doesn't.

[Radio]

Range actually doesn't matter too much when using the RR method. As long as your torpedoes can reach the target they always have a very high chance to hit, simply because the method maximizes the probability of hitting the target by all possible ways. It doesn't hurt to get closer, though, that way you can iron out smaller bugs in your data/approach etc.

Oh and try the Easy-AOB mod, IIRC it will give you full control over the range wheel as well!

[Fish40]

I'll agree with Radio about the range not being very critical, as long as you're within range for your torps for one, and two that you're not too close that the torps don't arm themselves. But generally speaking, the closer you are, the higher probability for success exists. The target has less time to take evasive action.

The thing that is critical with the DO method is target speed. I've used this method with great success in the past, especially on heavy overcast days with heavy fog and poor visibility. If you have radar, obtaining target course and speed is fairly easy. I've fired at targets blind through heavy fog, useing radar and sonar (when submerged) to obtain target bearing. When I fealt the target was close to 10 dgr or 350 if the target is heading left to right, I fired. Of course I couldn't visually see the ship passing the wire, but I impacted just the same.

[jcope]

It seems with RSRD the convoys don't sail at whole-knot speeds. They can be at pretty much any fraction of a knot. This introduces doubt in your speed measurements, because you can't just round off. Is it 10.2 or 10.4 or the 9.8 from your most recent measurement? If you mistakenly choose at the wrong end of the range, at least one or two of your torpedoes can be expected to miss, unless you are up close.

[Arlo]

As I only started using this excellent technique two days ago, I've since come to a conclusion:
The TDC data we input is essentially a "snapshot" of what the PK solution would be at for a zero degree gyro angle shot, if we were using the PK with (at least close to) 100% correct data inputs.
Therefore, I attempted to refine my technique a bit by not adhering to the exact steps outlined in Rockin'Robbin's tutorial, such as closing to <1000m of the target's track, or
"pulling down the red arrow as low as it will go"(For the life of me, I cannot move that damn red arrow, only the inner wheel) and instead opted to input the exact range as measured from the boat to the target track at 90deg. The result is that this technique works from any range. I suspect that RRs method is to further simplify things for us skippers, but for those that want to use this technique without driving so close, and maintain that realism feeling of having vital parts "pass the wire" as we fire, there you have it. If you have a resonably accurate plot of the target track, the steps involved are all the same, except for the range. Just manually turn the wheel to the distance from boat to track at that step.

PS forgive me if this is being trite, I'm still kind of new here and haven't been here for all the discussions. I just noticed a few posts saying that they diddn't use O'kane method since it "required" being too close for their comfort to track. It doesn't.

The closest I've made an O'Kane attack is 1600 yds. Typically I shoot that type of run at about 3-4k. I've had hit ratios of 4 out of 8 to 7 out of 8.

Yep, I'm liking full manual better and better.

[jcope]

While positioning the sub at close range helps overcome problems with inaccurate speed measurement, the range you put into the TDC is completely irrelevant. All you need is the angle.

Range in the TDC is a red herring. Either that, or I'm doing it wrong.

Edit: I could see range being important if it was input to a detonator timer or something like that. But the torpedoes just keep going until they hit something or they run out of power.

[Arlo]

While positioning the sub at close range helps overcome problems with inaccurate speed measurement, the range you put into the TDC is completely irrelevant. All you need is the angle.

Range in the TDC is a red herring. Either that, or I'm doing it wrong.

Edit: I could see range being important if it was input to a detonator timer or something like that. But the torpedoes just keep going until they hit something or they run out of power.

Range is important in so much as the speed setting you'll select for a MK 14 (which will determine it's intercept course). If I'm mis-measuring mast (or alternate height point) and getting 4k yards when it's really 7k yards, selecting a hi speed setting will make an accurate shot meaningless.

But this is just stating the obvious. Regarding accuracy, if you can see it then you can figure an angle, if the torp and target stay on track then range is till the juice runs out.

[mobucks]

When you send speed, then send 90aob, then send current range to track at 0/180 bearing, go check the gyro angle of the solution on the attack map. the deviation left or right from 0/180 is your exact lead angle. 10degrees for fast, 20 for slow as a rule does not apply when extending your range, you need more accuracy. That many degrees will still be subtracted from the 90aob.
Of course this assumes your speed/track plotting is very accurate. I for one agree with RR that the TMO map contacts on is the more realistic setting, so I use that. That is how I came to realize the setup is like a "snapshot" of a full solution using the PK. Using the PK, with good, accurate inputs, if you watch the torpedo solution as it moves to a zero gyro angle and press pause, the ship will be in the exact lead bearing/aob as working backwards from 90aob using O'kane.

It seems with RSRD the convoys ...
With TMO2.2 and RSRDC, they seem to have one or 2 ships constantly zigging, slowing the formation ships down as they have to evade them. I find it impossible to do anything other than get in extremely close and fan shot, hoping for the best. It has lead to some interesting results to say the least, "Damn, I missed one of my fish, oh, but now it's gone and hit a ship 5 minutes later I diddn't even see was there. YES!" Slow speed torps FTW.

[jcope]

Range is important in so much as the speed setting you'll select for a MK 14 (which will determine it's intercept course). If I'm mis-measuring mast (or alternate height point) and getting 4k yards when it's really 7k yards, selecting a hi speed setting will make an accurate shot meaningless.

But this is just stating the obvious. Regarding accuracy, if you can see it then you can figure an angle, if the torp and target stay on track then range is till the juice runs out.

I agree that range measurements are critical when trying to find out the speed, if you're using the stadimeter. You can measure the speed many other ways though, from afar. For me, if I'm close enough to be using the stadimeter to find speed, then I just let the position keeper do its job and fire a spread. The O'Kane method isn't superior at that point, as far as I can tell.

I've also been using slow torpedoes as a rule, because they nearly always detonate. This is another reason why being close matters to me. It gives the target less time to react. Firing from far away ultimately just means wasting torpedoes. I wouldn't feel more satisfied having half my torpedoes hit from long range than I would firing fewer from closer and having them all hit. If I had the choice.

I use fast torpedoes if I am shooting a target headed away from me.

[I'm goin' down]

stop your boat. If the target is closing and its bearing is between 300 degrees and 60 degrees on the periscope, use the chronometer to measure how long it takes for the target to cross the periscope bearing. Divide by 3 to derive speed per second. (I am using the imperial measurement). Multiply by 180 seconds (i.e. 3 minutes) You have derived the speed is knots.

Hypo. Target length is 425 feet. It's bow crosses the periscope bearing at 57 degrees. Start the chronometer. It takes 30 seconds for the target to cross the bearing. 425 ft./30 sec. = 14.16 ft. per second/3 (no. of feet in one yard) = target's speed is 4.72 (yds. per second) x 180 seconds (180 seconds equals 3 minutes) = 8.49 kts. (target speed using the 3 minute rule.)

Why measure speed between 300 degrees and 60 degrees on the scope? Because Kasmaronznew (mod developer for UBoats in SH4 in the ATO forum) said that measuring speed between those bearings will give you the most accurate reading to calculate speed. I use his method. It works.

[mobucks]

Just made a 3200yd shot with fast fish using this method. Each fish hit within mere feet of where it crossed the wire. Suprisingly, the lead angle was still only 8 degrees. I even messed up at first having the torps set to slow and still had time to recalibrate everything with the new lead angle before the maru came into the field.