Libya looks set to chart moderate course on Islam

[Gerald]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15500682

Note: 4 November 2011 Last updated at 07:38 GMT

[Skybird]

Moderate Islam.

:haha:

Modern backwardedness. Improved primitivity. Liberal tyranny. Humanistic discrimination. A judaphile "Mein Kampf". A leftist right. A light darkness. A loud silence. A true lie.

:har: :har: :har:

What says Turkey's neo-ottoman emperor, Erdoghan I: ? That the West should stop talking of moderate and conservative Islam, since that would be an offence, an insult to every muslim since there is only one Islam, one Islam and not more, and that it is based on Quran and Shariah? So says Erdoghan, and over the years quite many representatives of Islam and Muslim countries. Strange to see mysself agreeing with somebody I dispise so much like him.

But that statement is not standardised in an EU-paper with the stamp of an Euro-Norm on it, so it must not be taken into account. Western clever Dicks know so much better what Islam is and how the Quran and Sharia are really meant. I mean really really is meant, you see. The really real realness behind the mere mentioning of "real".

Watch "moderate" Turkey were it leads. Backwards. And polygamy: a latin word for female inequality.

Turkish examples again: a Turkish court short while ago gave mild, suspended penalties to I think 23 men, many of them office-holders, influential persons and pillars of public life and their communities, who gang-raped a 13 year old girl repeatedly and over a longer time, saying that the girl faces a share of guilt, since she "invited" sexual intercourse (that'S why women shall wear burqhas, to prevent the hormones of undisciplined male animals going amok all day long, which is not their fault, but that of diabolic wicked women inviting them). - Dominance of male, almost "tribal" structures, and massive restrenghtening of ultra-patriarchalic structures in public offices and adminstration has been installed over the past years. The military is hollowed out and striopped of its powers, the leadership slowly replaced with a generation of fundamentalists moving into the medium ranks and from there into the top ranks in the near future. The number of women holding offices and powers in public services and offices, has dramatically declined. More wear head-scarfs again. The lift of the ban of head-scarfs at university was not meant to allow more women to unversity, but to enforce women at university becoming more submissive to Islam again, which they did when the conswervatives suddenly had free entrance to the universities and started to outnumber the modern women and enforcing an anonymous pressure for compliance. The number of modern, "Westernised" women in Turkish society is declining, the ground they held is reduced anyway, and what remains of that is taken over by conservative, submissive females. All this under the flag of female rights and female equality. Yeah, sure.

It will start like this in Libya. And then become much worse over the next two legislations. After all it is the tribes that still have the decisive word in Libyan politics, without their at least silent tolerance you cannot rule and pacify the country. There are too many parties and factions, to many unlikely-to-hold alliances of utmost fragility. In all countries of the Arab unrest this year, the religious fundamentalists were the ones to form the strongest and most solid self-organisations of all.

I think they have over 200 tribes, in a country of only 6.X million. Go figure.

BTW, what has happened to the 20.000 ATM- and SAM-shoulderpads they are missing over there, in soon-to-be-democratic Libya? Wait, I read it since some days in the news, the first of them have shown up in Afghanistan, Libanon and probably also are on their way to Gaza, while some more are on their way to Somalia and Egypt, to help the right-believing brothers and sisters there to help democracy becoming victorious.

The German BKA (=German FBI) meanwhile has warned of airliners getting SAMmed at German and European airports.

[_dgn_]

Moderate Islam.

Yes, an human Islam, with moderate Charia ...

By example, for stoning adulteresses, sharpened stones will be covered of anaesthetic !!!

[tater]

LOL.

Even if there were such a thing as "moderate Islam" (there are no major sects that are not fundamentalist in Islam, and any that are the least bit "moderate" are attacked by all the other sects), Libya is gonna be ugly.

Look at images of Libyans with signs/flags. I have seen them in news stories, and the signs are unremarked. The black flag/sign with the white circle... Al Qaida.

[Skybird]

The black flag/sign with the white circle... Al Qaida.

Naaaa - just the local Johohonny Depp fan club.

[1480]

Naaaa - just the local Johohonny Depp fan club.


Once again, skybird made me laugh.

Moderate Islam = military intelligence.

[Betonov]

If they bring it on a level that my Bosnian co-workers show, they'll achieve a lot

[Tchocky]

Islamists aren't stupid. They're not going to try for total power in Libya straight after a despotic dictator. There are social/economic problems and 40 years of repressed rage to be worked out - better to let a moderate, cohesive government get the country back onto an even keel and then try convincing the people that make-believe chop-off-hands is the important stuff.

Blech. So far better than what was in place before, sad that that's all to be said right now.

[joegrundman]

i feel pity for osama bin laden. it seems unfair that he didn't live long enough to see this tremendous irony that NATO and the UN has helped to achieve on his posthumous behalf

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02042/Al-Qaeda-flag_2042442c.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8861608/Libya-Al-Qaeda-flag-flown-above-Benghazi-courthouse.html

[Kongo Otto]

Even the last village idiot on this planet by now should have learned that Islam is an enemy to every free secular society on this planet.
21st centuries Islam is nothing more than hate, violence, murder, intolerance and opression to everyone else!!

[tater]

If they bring it on a level that my Bosnian co-workers show, they'll achieve a lot

In the three, so-called "great" monotheisms, "moderation" has been achieved by ignoring segments of whichever holy book. In Islam, there are no large groups who have done this at all as a matter of sect doctrine. Some muslims are moderate simply because they are not terribly devout, or because they simply don't know what their own religion teaches. The same is true of jews and christians, BTW. Most of those know the 10 commandments, but how many know that the punishment for violating most of them is death?

So, there are no real moderate sects of Islam, but there are plenty of people who identify themselves as muslims who do not really practice good Islam, and are hence "moderate." The whole point of the Muslim Brotherhood, and similar organizations is to teach muslims arabic (the vast majority of muslims are unable to read their own holy book—200-something million people can speak or read arabic, and there are 1.2 billion muslims). Once they learn to read the koran, they become far more fundamentalist, since Islam requires literalism and infallibility of their silly book (again, the same is true of other, silly books).

[Morts]

Even the last village idiot on this planet by now should have learned that Islam is an enemy to every free secular society on this planet.
21st centuries Islam is nothing more than hate, violence, murder, intolerance and opression to everyone else!!
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:yeah, whatever.

[Betonov]

In the three, so-called "great" monotheisms, "moderation" has been achieved by ignoring segments of whichever holy book.

Exactly, that's what makes the Bosnians so moderate, they're very good at ignoring (especialy the part of the work process called instructions)

[Kongo Otto]

Even the last village idiot on this planet by now should have learned that Islam is an enemy to every free secular society on this planet.
21st centuries Islam is nothing more than hate, violence, murder, intolerance and opression to everyone else!!

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:yeah, whatever.

Ah ok how old are you? 12?
Taking your statement as an "really sophisticated" expression of islam, then please answer the question what achievements had the Islam in the last lets say 100 years instead of hate, murder, violence, intolerance and opression?
C'mon enlighten us with your profound knowledge.

[Kongo Otto]

If they bring it on a level that my Bosnian co-workers show, they'll achieve a lot

Sorry for asking, is this now sarcasm, irony or zynism? ;)

[Betonov]

Sorry for asking, is this now sarcasm, irony or zynism? ;)

Reality.
Bosnians are known as being extremly non ''islamic''. They're muslims but they don't practice sharia law, they eat pork (but rarely since they prefer lamb and beef) and they drink alcohol... a lot, practice monogamy, when it comes to their women I have yet to see one in a burka and I have yet to see a bosnian man to be outraged by a scantily dressed woman, quite the opposite.
And don't give me last weeks incident in Sarajevo, it was a crazy fool watching too much TV. An incident that won't be repeated in a 100 years.

[Kongo Otto]

Reality.
Bosnians are known as being extremly non ''islamic''. They're muslims but they don't practice sharia law, they eat pork (but rarely since they prefer lamb and beef) and they drink alcohol... a lot, practice monogamy, when it comes to their women I have yet to see one in a burka and I have yet to see a bosnian man to be outraged by a scantily dressed woman, quite the opposite.
And don't give me last weeks incident in Sarajevo, it was a crazy fool watching too much TV. An incident that won't be repeated in a 100 years.

Yes i know, therefore i didnt understood your statement. ;)
Well the guy in Sarajevo, he's probably just another victim of the war.
Sarajevo, the say it has become a beautiful town after the war, all i know of the town are such places like Snipers alley back in 1992.

[joegrundman]

I know a muslim Kosovan guy, now a member of the government in Pristina. He drank quite a lot and had no concerns about dietary requirements.

He told me there is an expression in the region "to still carry the cross", which is to say that even though you are now officially a muslim family, and most likely have been for a few hundred years, you still keep a crucifix somewhere in your house, typically in the rafters under your roof. A sort of divine bet-hedging.

[Betonov]

Yep, Sarajevo has been beuautiful before the war and it's regained most of it's splendor plus the new ''war sites'' to visit. Hec, I don't know why I havent visited yet, 6 hour drive and I know enough people down there I could crash for 2 weeks at someone's.

Plus, the US hepled Bosnians during the war, so a true Bosnian would never fire at a US embassy

[Betonov]

Yes i know, therefore i didnt understood your statement. ;)

Ups, re-read my statement about Lybia, it does sound like I'm sarcastic :oops:
Thats' what I hate about forums, you can't hear the tone of voice :yep:

[Kongo Otto]

Yep, Sarajevo has been beuautiful before the war and it's regained most of it's splendor plus the new ''war sites'' to visit. Hec, I don't know why I havent visited yet, 6 hour drive and I know enough people down there I could crash for 2 weeks at someone's.

Plus, the US hepled Bosnians during the war, so a true Bosnian would never fire at a US embassy

I want to visit Sarajevo next year, just vist some places i know from the past.

They said in the German papers that he was a naturalized former Mercenary from Saudia Arabia who staid in Bosnia after the war, there were many from Saudi Arabia fighting there way back in 92 when i was there.
Most of them brutal and ruthless guys, rumor says most of them continued fighting later on with Al-Qaeda.

[Betonov]

I want to visit Sarajevo next year, just vist some places i know from the past.

Don't forget Mostar, it's a sin not to visit (and I'm still a sinner :cry:)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mGsQVJDWbak/TZ3xlVc_IyI/AAAAAAAAfk8/BluL8E5QpFE/s1600/9-Mostar_Stari_Most_01.jpg

[Kongo Otto]

They did rebuild the bridge very beautiful. :up:

[Gerald]

Don't forget Mostar, it's a sin not to visit (and I'm still a sinner :cry:)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mGsQVJDWbak/TZ3xlVc_IyI/AAAAAAAAfk8/BluL8E5QpFE/s1600/9-Mostar_Stari_Most_01.jpg Nice pic,:up: