View Full Version : Is Obama Toast? Handicapping the 2012 Election
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/magazine/nate-silver-handicaps-2012-election.html?_r=1&hp
Note: November 3, 2011
Yes, he's toast, I'd be very surprised to see him make a second term.
HunterICX
11-03-11, 12:34 PM
Obama Toast?
HunterICX
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5551/obamatoast3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/obamatoast3.jpg/)
Ducimus
11-03-11, 01:00 PM
Personally i think Obama's presidency was destined to be 1 term presidency the instant he took office.
Well, his chief of staff and secretary of state are leaving 2012. Turnover of staff and cabinet members is not an indicator of really anything.
breadcatcher101
11-03-11, 01:15 PM
I like toast. I don't like Obama. Therefore Obama can not be toast.
Perhaps a waffle.
I like toast. I don't like Obama. Therefore Obama can not be toast.
Perhaps a waffle.
Aren't you in the area where Waffle House is the rule rather than exception?
I like toast. I don't like Obama. Therefore Obama can not be toast.
Perhaps a waffle.Like this,
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9189/waffle2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/207/waffle2.jpg/)
AVGWarhawk
11-03-11, 01:25 PM
Obama will win another term and it is not for his record/current administration or how well he runs a campaign.
You heard it here first. :03:
mookiemookie
11-03-11, 01:53 PM
Nate Silver is one of the sharpest political guys out there.
AVGWarhawk
11-03-11, 01:56 PM
Good for Nate! :yeah: Obama is still winning.
http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/david-hill/191211-obama-fails-all-viability-tests
Actually I still don't think he's toast. He's not done anything to earn a 2nd term, that much is true, but the GOP opposition is not looking very strong at the moment either.
Seth8530
11-03-11, 02:39 PM
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5551/obamatoast3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/obamatoast3.jpg/)
shoulda left it in the toaster a little longer.
lol
As for Obama, I was tired of all the portrayals of him as either some demi-Jesus of America's Hope on the one hand, or the socialist he-who-must-always-be-named on the other. He's neither, and what I think most people failed to see when he was going in was that he was something far more banal - a fast-dealing Chicago politician. And that is exactly how he's acted in his time in office, no more no less.
Well im not American but if I was, I think the Republicans would actually get my vote if Ron Paul was running, I dont like that hes a pro-lifer, but other than that, the guy makes quite alot of sense to me.
But Id rather have Obama than some moron like Sarah Palin.
But like I said, Im not American - so good luck with it.
AVGWarhawk
11-03-11, 03:23 PM
lol
As for Obama, I was tired of all the portrayals of him as either some demi-Jesus of America's Hope on the one hand, or the socialist he-who-must-always-be-named on the other. He's neither, and what I think most people failed to see when he was going in was that he was something far more banal - a fast-dealing Chicago politician. And that is exactly how he's acted in his time in office, no more no less.
It will not matter how he portrays himself in the upcoming campaign which he has kicked off. He will not win on merit. He will not win for his current administration. He will not loose to any Republican candidate However, he will win.
AVGWarhawk
11-03-11, 03:24 PM
Well im not American but if I was, I think the Republicans would actually get my vote if Ron Paul was running, I dont like that hes a pro-lifer, but other than that, the guy makes quite alot of sense to me.
But Id rather have Obama than some moron like Sarah Palin.
But like I said, Im not American - so good luck with it.
Ron Paul has no chance.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't it indifferent wich president that sit in the white house in the next period?
This coming president have-to say it nicely- a real tuff job to do and he/she have to do something that would make him/her the most hated person in USA.
Raise taxes, cut military costs, cut other things (in wich I can't remember the name)
Markus
Platapus
11-03-11, 04:36 PM
Well according to some political theories (which I happen to believe in) in order for Obama to be defeated in the next election two distinct and different circumstances must occur:
1. The voting public must be sufficiently dissatisfied with Obama
and
2. The voting public must be presented with an alternative candidate that offers a significant difference.
Without both of these occurring, the incumbent stands a very good chance of being re-elected.
Consider the 2004 elections. Bush's approval rating was very low and his disapproval rating was high. This satisfied the first requirement.
However, the Democrats, in the form of Kerry, failed to demonstrate that Kerry would be a significant change (improvement). Kerry ran on mostly an "I am not Bush" platform.
Not being the incumbent is rarely enough for the voting public to choose to nor re-elect the incumbent. The result: Bush was re-elected
Fast forward to 2012
Obama's approval rating may be low and his disapproval rating may be high by the time of the elections.
But is the Republican party able to field a candidate that offers the voting public a significant improvement? That is the question that will govern this election. If the Republicans fall into the same trap as the Democrats did in 2004 and run a 2012 candidate on the "I am not Obama" platform, Obama may have a good chance of being re-elected.
Personally, as a Recovering Republican and an Extreme Moderate Independent, I have not seen the GOP satisfy the second part of the theory.....yet.
It is still early and we are still stuck with the seven dwarfs fighting among themselves, but soon the GOP will have to decide on who they want to represent their party in the next election and start building a platform that consists of more than "I am not Obama".
And by soon, I think by the time of the next election which is on Tuesday. :yep:. Republican primaries start in Jan 2012. Not a lot of time!
I will be waiting and watching as I am sure the rest of us will be.
TLAM Strike
11-03-11, 05:30 PM
...cut other things (in wich I can't remember the name)
I think the name you are looking for is: "The Bill of Rights".
:O:
Well according to some political theories (which I happen to believe in) in order for Obama to be defeated in the next election two distinct and different circumstances must occur:
1. The voting public must be sufficiently dissatisfied with Obama
I totally agree with your second premise.
But instead of giving an example, could you define sufficiently dissatisfied.
Not to rip it apart but my definition may be a bit different.
breadcatcher101
11-03-11, 05:59 PM
Well im not American but if I was, I think the Republicans would actually get my vote if Ron Paul was running, I dont like that hes a pro-lifer, but other than that, the guy makes quite alot of sense to me.
But Id rather have Obama than some moron like Sarah Palin.
But like I said, Im not American - so good luck with it.
We have a lot of non-Americans that vote, so please...join the crowd.
AVGWarhawk
11-03-11, 07:01 PM
Consider the 2004 elections. Bush's approval rating was very low and his disapproval rating was high. This satisfied the first requirement.
Consider a sitting President is not normally voted out office during war. :hmmm:
Platapus
11-03-11, 07:10 PM
But instead of giving an example, could you define sufficiently dissatisfied.
If I could define that accurately and predictably, I would not be working at the company I am now in. LoL
Sufficiently dissatisfied is the tricky thing.:yep:
Well who ever wins better start sorting out the Frederal deficit before it breaks America.... and drags the rest of us down with you.
Bush Jr carried out quite a shopping spree and mostly on a chinese tab too. Obama so far has done next to nothing to help the situation!
I think the name you are looking for is: "The Bill of Rights".
:O:
No, it's in the social benefits and hospital.
But thanks anyway.
Markus
Here's a question to you.
Would you like to be the next president for the US??
If you do nothing to the debt and other things-people gonna hate you
If you do something about it and I presume it's some tuff decision you have to make-people gonna hate you.
I would not.
Offcourse the president do not have to do all the job.
Markus
If I could define that accurately and predictably, I would not be working at the company I am now in. LoL
Sufficiently dissatisfied is the tricky thing.:yep:
Kind of like "reasonable suspicion." :har:
I see the angle you are working and your argument is plausible, more plausible than I have heard by some of the pundits.
The strange part of all of this: as Romney has kept silent this past week, his poll numbers increased. :hmmm:
Here's a question to you.
Would you like to be the next president for the US??
If you do nothing to the debt and other things-people gonna hate you
If you do something about it and I presume it's some tuff decision you have to make-people gonna hate you.
I would not.
Offcourse the president do not have to do all the job.
Markus
Valid points.
I for one would just be happy for a true leader.
Platapus
11-03-11, 09:04 PM
Would anyone want to be President with the current state of Congress???
I think the current political attitudes will do more harm than anything else to our country. It seems like we have a bunch of children in congress, none of them seems to care about taking care of the country but seem only to be interested in party before country.
Bubblehead1980
11-03-11, 09:16 PM
Barring a major recovery of the economy(LOL right) or GOP running a flip flopping guy like Romney, Obama is definitely out.
Bubblehead1980
11-03-11, 09:18 PM
Would anyone want to be President with the current state of Congress???
I think the current political attitudes will do more harm than anything else to our country. It seems like we have a bunch of children in congress, none of them seems to care about taking care of the country but seem only to be interested in party before country.
Congres is mostly ok, they just are not willing to give into obama's crappy plans. Look at where a cooperative congress lead by Reid and Pelosi got us.Blame lies with Obama and his failed policies as well as refusing to accept his left wing views have been proven incorrect.
mookiemookie
11-03-11, 09:45 PM
The strange part of all of this: as Romney has kept silent this past week, his poll numbers increased. :hmmm:
Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake. Perry and Cain are destroying themselves, and Romney's just sitting back and letting it happen.
Torplexed
11-03-11, 09:53 PM
The case for Obama.
http://pyxis.homestead.com/obamacase.jpg
Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake. Perry and Cain are destroying themselves, and Romney's just sitting back and letting it happen.
Absolutely. Can you explain why Biden still has career without invoking the name of McConnell???? Your answer should read in form of a question, and should be within 1800 words or less. Thank you please drive up to the first window.;)
The strange part of all of this: as Romney has kept silent this past week, his poll numbers increased. :hmmm:
Well not necessarily strange. Right now there seems to be a battle going on over Cain's credibility due to these harassment allegations. It drives some people to him some people away from him. It may be encouraging some voters to go over to Romney instead. What's more interesting though is that, last I checked, Cain's poll numbers have actually increased in the past week as well.
Well not necessarily strange. Right now there seems to be a battle going on over Cain's credibility due to these harassment allegations. It drives some people to him some people away from him. It may be encouraging some voters to go over to Romney instead. What's more interesting though is that, last I checked, Cain's poll numbers have actually increased in the past week as well.
Just wondering who leaked the story....Cain #'s up may be an anomaly, though I hate to use that as an excuse for anything. Voting public see this as a charade? Not sure I give them that much credit. White guilt part II? My head hurts....:-?
Tribesman
11-04-11, 09:17 AM
Just wondering who leaked the story
Well the wingnut presenters said it was the worldwide liberal media conspiracy who want to keep the blackman down.
Cains camp have blamed so far the Republican party, his old employers, two of his current republican opponents, his old politcal campaigh staff, his business associates, the democrats, Rahm Emanuel, Obama.....I think they are blaming the grassy knoll next to then be followed by the bell boy.
The damage being done to Cain is not by the allegations themselves but by his ever changing excuses about them.
But look on the bright side for him, there must be another book in all this
Well the wingnut presenters said it was the worldwide liberal media conspiracy who want to keep the blackman down.
Cains camp have blamed so far the Republican party, his old employers, two of his current republican opponents, his old politcal campaigh staff, his business associates, the democrats, Rahm Emanuel, Obama.....I think they are blaming the grassy knoll next to then be followed by the bell boy.
The damage being done to Cain is not by the allegations themselves but by his ever changing excuses about them.
But look on the bright side for him, there must be another book in all this
I read some where that the lawsuits were filed two years after he left his post......its more difficult to defend yourself when you have no idea of whats going on----ONLY IF THAT PART OF THE STORY IS TRUE. Had he kept his mouth shut....hmmmmm
gammaphialpha
12-21-11, 05:18 AM
If Obama loses my vote it will not be because of things that were out of his control. It will be because rather than speak forcefully for change, and make the promised changes that were within his power, he backed down even on executive decisions that were all his to make, in the mistaken belief that he would appeal to a broader electorate..
the_tyrant
12-21-11, 08:29 AM
Off topic, but I just had a crazy day dream
I dreamed that Mussolini won against Obama on the "at least our trains run on time" platform:rotfl2:
If Obama loses my vote it will not be because of things that were out of his control. It will be because rather than speak forcefully for change, and make the promised changes that were within his power, he backed down even on executive decisions that were all his to make, in the mistaken belief that he would appeal to a broader electorate..
Clinton understood that in order for him to get reelected he needed to get a moderate message across. Obama is not a leader but more of a prop that is being used by others to get their agenda across. It could be argued that some presidents were merely figureheads merely stumping for certain interests.
Hope and change was nothing more than double speak for "anyone who isn't a WASP."
Takeda Shingen
12-21-11, 09:35 AM
I don't know, 1480, I think you'd have a hard time attempting to prove middle-aged white men as an oppressed minority. I'm reminded of a scene in a Simpsons episode (back in the 90's, when the episodes were actually good) where Lisa and Grandpa are lamenting the fact that no one cares what they think:
Lisa: It's awful being a kid. No one listens to you.
Grandpa: It's rotten being old. No one listens to you.
Homer (entering from the side): I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me -- no matter how dumb my suggestions are.
Isn't Obama half a middle aged white man?
Sailor Steve
12-21-11, 11:53 AM
:rotfl2:
Good one!
On the other hand that takes me back to a comment I made during the election. The same bigots who used to say "If you have one drop of black blood in you that makes you black, period!" are the same ones easing their minds about Obama now by saying "Well, he's not all black."
:rotfl2:
Good one!
On the other hand that takes me back to a comment I made during the election. The same bigots who used to say "If you have one drop of black blood in you that makes you black, period!" are the same ones easing their minds about Obama now by saying "Well, he's not all black."
:har:
Don't forget this gem:
A new book about the 2008 campaign quotes Mr. Reid as predicting that Mr. Obama could become the country’s first black president because he was “light-skinned” and had “no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one.
Takeda Shingen
12-21-11, 01:08 PM
Isn't Obama half a middle aged white man?
And? Perhaps I am incredibly stupid and deserving of your and Steve's collective scorn, but I don't see how this fits into your WASP statement.
Sailor Steve
12-21-11, 01:27 PM
And? Perhaps I am incredibly stupid and deserving of your and Steve's collective scorn, but I don't see how this fits into your WASP statement.
I agree about middle-aged white men hardly qualifying as an oppressed minority, but the super-conservative ones feel like they're being singled out and picked on. That is the same arguing point used by American Christians. True or not, either they feel that way or it's a convenient excuse for attacking others. Within that context the Obama comment makes him an oppressed minority on both sides, which may not be true but is funny.
No scorn here, just befuddled amusement.
^^^^ :up:
An enigma wrapped in a conundrum.
^^^^ :up:
An enigma wrapped in a conundrum.
Embedded in a riddle perched atop a poser balanced on a question wedded to a wonderment... :D
Embedded in a riddle perched atop a poser balanced on a question wedded to a wonderment... :D
Your English teacher would be slapping you for the unnecessary use of a run on sentence but your grammar appears to be correct though there should be a comma in there somewhere. ;)
Your English teacher would be slapping you for the unnecessary use of a run on sentence but your grammar appears to be correct though there should be a comma in there somewhere. ;)
I have been accused of comma abuse in the past so now i'm overcompensating. :DL
I have been accused of comma abuse in the past so now i'm overcompensating. :DL
Touche.
Sailor Steve
12-21-11, 07:51 PM
I'm sure Mark Twain would tell us that anything can be forgiven if it's funny enough. :D
I'm sure Mark Twain would tell us that anything can be forgiven if it's funny enough. :D
It is a solemn thought: dead, the noblest man's meat is inferior to pork.
You are correct once again....tip of the cap to the man who shows age is only a number :D
CaptainHaplo
12-22-11, 12:13 PM
This is going to be a close election for the nation's highest office, but Obama loses under most scenarios. However, congressionally the left is going to get clobbered. If Obama wins, he will have be facing right controlled congress in BOTH houses - though not a veto proof one.
This has a LOT to do with the coming election - because people are already tired of hearing that its the fault of one side or the other. Gridlock will again happen - and the citizenry is tired of it.
There also is the issue of the Supreme Court taking up the AHCA - which could - at a late stage - cut the legs out of the president. Even if it is kept, the ire of the voter will raise because the majority of voters do not agree with the plan.
The only way he wins is if a third runner pops into the mix as an independant - or something really goofy like Paul, Huntsman, Santorum or Bachman wins. Romney or Gingrich would beat Obama head to head - though an independant runner would help Obama immensely and save his job.
nikimcbee
12-22-11, 01:59 PM
Your English teacher would be slapping you for the unnecessary use of a run on sentence but your grammar appears to be correct though there should be a comma in there somewhere. ;)
Actual grammar police footage of 1480 making a grammar bust.
Subsim members watch the action unfold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF_VJ2M8iGk
:haha:
Bubblehead1980
12-22-11, 03:41 PM
This is going to be a close election for the nation's highest office, but Obama loses under most scenarios. However, congressionally the left is going to get clobbered. If Obama wins, he will have be facing right controlled congress in BOTH houses - though not a veto proof one.
This has a LOT to do with the coming election - because people are already tired of hearing that its the fault of one side or the other. Gridlock will again happen - and the citizenry is tired of it.
There also is the issue of the Supreme Court taking up the AHCA - which could - at a late stage - cut the legs out of the president. Even if it is kept, the ire of the voter will raise because the majority of voters do not agree with the plan.
The only way he wins is if a third runner pops into the mix as an independant - or something really goofy like Paul, Huntsman, Santorum or Bachman wins. Romney or Gingrich would beat Obama head to head - though an independant runner would help Obama immensely and save his job.
you're mostly right but Paul could beat Obama, multiple(but little talked about on the news networks) polls have shown Paul could beat Obama in a general election.Why? Independents...that's why.
Tribesman
12-22-11, 04:03 PM
you're mostly right but Paul could beat Obama, multiple(but little talked about on the news networks) polls have shown Paul could beat Obama in a general election.Why? Independents...that's why.
Sounds like an echo of what you were saying about Cain.
Platapus
12-22-11, 05:58 PM
There also is the issue of the Supreme Court taking up the AHCA - which could - at a late stage - cut the legs out of the president. Even if it is kept, the ire of the voter will raise because the majority of voters do not agree with the plan.
Got a citation for this? A lot of people talk about it, but I have not seen too many poll results that show that the majority of voters are against it.
But then I don't look at every poll out there. :D
CaptainHaplo
12-22-11, 06:09 PM
you're mostly right but Paul could beat Obama, multiple(but little talked about on the news networks) polls have shown Paul could beat Obama in a general election.Why? Independents...that's why.
Paul can NOT beat Obama - between foreign policy and his past of running a blatently racist periodical - no way he is viable.
Got a citation for this? A lot of people talk about it, but I have not seen too many poll results that show that the majority of voters are against it.
Platapus - try here: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
mookiemookie
12-22-11, 08:58 PM
I'd vote Paul over Obama every day of the week. Shame that the right wing smear machine is trying to bury the only true conservative out there.
Platapus
12-22-11, 09:19 PM
Platapus - try here: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
That's some pretty consistent data. :yep:
Thanks for the link
Tribesman
12-23-11, 04:23 AM
That's some pretty consistent data.
However you would need a breakown of those who oppose the bill because it went too far and those who oppose the bill because it was too much of a compromise, as one consistant complaint is that it doesn't achieve what it was set out to achieve.
mookiemookie
12-23-11, 07:49 AM
Not to mention that Rasmussen has a history of shoddy polling methods. I'd be strongly suspicious of any of their numbers:
Rasmussen's polls have come under heavy criticism throughout this election cycle, including from FiveThirtyEight. We have critiqued the firm for its cavalier attitude toward polling convention. Rasmussen, for instance, generally conducts all of its interviews during a single, 4-hour window; speaks with the first person it reaches on the phone rather than using a random selection process; does not call cellphones; does not call back respondents whom it misses initially; and uses a computer script rather than live interviewers to conduct its surveys. These are cost-saving measures which contribute to very low response rates and may lead to biased samples.
Rasmussen also weights their surveys based on preordained assumptions about the party identification of voters in each state, a relatively unusual practice that many polling firms consider dubious since party identification (unlike characteristics like age and gender) is often quite fluid.
...
The discrepancies between Rasmussen Reports polls and those issued by other companies were apparent from virtually the first day that Barack Obama took office. Rasmussen showed Barack Obama's disapproval rating at 36 percent, for instance, just a week after his inauguration, at a point when no other pollster had that figure higher than 20 percent.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/
Gee a New York times opinion piece thinks someone isn't leaning left enough. Go figure. :dead:
The only poll that really counts is the one next November 7th and even that one is not likely to be accurate given the reports of election rigging.
mookiemookie
12-23-11, 10:40 AM
Gee a New York times opinion piece thinks someone isn't leaning left enough. Go figure. :dead:
The only poll that really counts is the one next November 7th and even that one is not likely to be accurate given the reports of election rigging.
First of all, it's not a "New York Times opinion piece", it's Nate Silver's blog which was bought out by the NYT and he's a statistician...and a pretty good one at that. If you can dispute any of the claims he makes, then do so. By just waving your hands and saying "oh it's a NYT opinion piece" you add nothing. Do you have an explanation why Rasmussen's polls are consistently wrong? Can you explain why they're always the outlier when compared to other polls?
gammaphialpha
12-23-11, 10:45 AM
obama is not even qualified to run under his own cosponsored house bill re mccain. his father was british. he is not natural born as he has dual allegiance, not allowed. why is NO ONE BRINGING THIS UP???? HE CAN'T RUN! A FRAUD FROM THE WORD GO.
Sailor Steve
12-23-11, 10:48 AM
Let's see...you can argue about the birth certificate some more if you like, but until you prove otherwise the fact that he was born in Hawaii of an Amercan mother does indeed make him a natural-born citizen.
By just waving your hands and saying "oh it's a NYT opinion piece" you add nothing.
But it's ok when you wave your hands and say "oh it's a FOX article"?
As for the rest of it, how the heck do I know why, assuming that it's true, you think Rasmussen polls are "outlier".
Like I said we'll see what the results of the only poll that matters some time soon after November 7th 2012. Maybe later if Obama or Romney pulls an Algore and tries to get the courts to invalidate the election results.
obama is not even qualified to run under his own cosponsored house bill re mccain. his father was british. he is not natural born as he has dual allegiance, not allowed. why is NO ONE BRINGING THIS UP???? HE CAN'T RUN! A FRAUD FROM THE WORD GO.
What Steve said.
Now if you don't like it and want to do something about it then you have two choices. A. Prove (and I mean really prove not just imply) your claims.
or
B.Start a successful revolution and then you don't have to worry about such legal niceties.
It's a sad state of affairs when polls sway opinions rather than do what they were ideally meant for, show what people think.
Platapus
12-23-11, 11:27 AM
obama is not even qualified to run under his own cosponsored house bill re mccain. his father was british. he is not natural born as he has dual allegiance, not allowed. why is NO ONE BRINGING THIS UP???? HE CAN'T RUN! A FRAUD FROM THE WORD GO.
Thank god we have people like you around.
1. To imagine that the Illinois Board of Elections missed this in 1997 when Obama ran for State House.
And they missed this in 2005 when Obama ran for Senator
And they missed this in 2008 when Obama ran for POTUS.
All the reviews made by state and federal election officers. All the research done by opposing candidates just looking for something to prevent Obama from running... every one missed it. But you know the "real" truth.
So, I assume you have written to the Illinois Board of Elections, with your evidence, and lodged a complaint right? I mean you clearly have evidence right?
2. Or perhaps, just perhaps you don't really understand what you are talking about?
he is not natural born as he has dual allegiance,...
I am leaning more to the second explanation.
Platapus
12-23-11, 11:31 AM
It's a sad state of affairs when polls sway opinions rather than do what they were ideally meant for, show what people think.
It is because people look toward poll results as a tool to form their own opinions or to be more accurate to validate their opinions.
Every notice that a poll that disagrees with MY opinion is flawed somehow but those polls that agree with my opinion reflect the people's true feelings.
Weird huh? :D
Like August said, there is only one poll that really matters and that is on the second Tuesday in November and according to the history of that poll about 50% of the people really don't care one way or the other.
It is because people look toward poll results as a tool to form their own opinions or to be more accurate to validate their opinions.
Every notice that a poll that disagrees with MY opinion is flawed somehow but those polls that agree with my opinion reflect the people's true feelings.
Weird huh? :D
Like August said, there is only one poll that really matters and that is on the second Tuesday in November and according to the history of that poll about 50% of the people really don't care one way or the other.
No, it's fun to just disagree with you :haha:
Using the state of Illinois as a credible vetting body is like using Natalie Wood as a swimming instructor.
Not knowing if this last November elections are a barometer for the electorate's opinion.
And the both of you are correct once it comes to the election.
Iowa bump.
I made not agree with the Republican candidates on a lot of things but I do agree with Gingrich when he says that attack ads "clutters the ability of the American people to have an adult conversation"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16400081
Osmium Steele
01-04-12, 08:07 AM
Now it is official. Obama is done. The ultimate authority has spoken, through the Brujo Mayor.
Mexico's Grand Warlock predicted US President Barack Obama would fail to win re-election and two more Latin American leaders would be diagnosed with cancer, in a traditional New Year's forecast Tuesday.
SOURCE (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.5d4866e77b6f7d7b4a432c8d0126795 6.9a1&show_article=1)
Takeda Shingen
01-04-12, 04:24 PM
/thread
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