Can you pass Thomas Edison's Employment test?

[vienna]

Recent press coverage of the passing of Steve Jobs has taken to declaring Jobs the "new generation" Thomas Edison. (I don't personally agree; I don't feel he ever really invented or created anyting; he mainly adapted existing technology and was a masterful marketing genius; you may now say horrible things about me on your iPhone/iPad...) The coverage and Edison comparisons brought to mind something I read in "Jeopardy" champion Ken Jennings' book "Brainiac" regarding a series of tests created by Thomas Edison to determine the worthiness of job appliants to his labs. Edison had a remarkable memory (near eidetic) and high standards for potential employees. He also had a severe dislike of college graduates and felt their degrees were quite often over-rated. His tests were widely varied in subject matter and he expected a 90% correct answer score. It is said Einstein heard about the tests and, as a lark, took one of them; he failed. The following link is a general overview of the Edison test per the Edison National Park site:

http://www.nps.gov/edis/forteachers/the-edison-test.htm

This site has further information and a link to a May, 1921 New York Times article citing a large number of the questions as givien to the Times by an unsuccessfull (and, apparently, disgruntled) applicant:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176966

(the Times article as a pdf:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40F10FB355B1B7A93C3A8178ED85F458285F9


So, would you have passed the test?...

[Sailor Steve]

On the main test, the only one I missed was "Pike's Peak".

Looking over the other sets of questions, I can see many that I would have missed. This is like a trivia game, in that there is no real thinking involved - either you know the answers or you don't. If looking them up is allowed, then anyone can find them out. If it's not, then being familiar with any particular subject is a great help, and if you aren't familiar with a particular subject then you don't have a chance. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.

Edison was a creative genius. Judging by how he judged others, he was a social idiot. On the side, he was also a legendary racist, which has nothing to do with this.

Or was that Henry Ford?

[vienna]

On the side, he was also a legendary racist, which has nothing to do with this.

Or was that Henry Ford?


Don't know about Edison, but Ford was a dyed-in-the-wool racist and keen anti-Semite; He actually owned a newspaper that would have done Goebbels proud and he kept a framed portrait of Hitler on his office desk, at least until the outbreak of American involvement in WWII, at which point the portrait mysterious ly disappeared...

[mookiemookie]

On the main test, the only one I missed was "Pike's Peak".

Looking over the other sets of questions, I can see many that I would have missed. This is like a trivia game, in that there is no real thinking involved - either you know the answers or you don't. If looking them up is allowed, then anyone can find them out. If it's not, then being familiar with any particular subject is a great help, and if you aren't familiar with a particular subject then you don't have a chance. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.



Agreed. This is like bar trivia rather than something that would be a good indicator on someone's intelligence.

Speaking of employment tests...My dad told me the story about Hyman Rickover's chair in his office. He'd saw off a portion of the front legs to see how you dealt with the problem while he was grilling you.

Also heard a story about how he completely lost his doodie over a candidate who was having lunch with the admiral and salted his food before he tasted it. Rickover went off on him, saying that someone like that who assumed things would never make it as a captain of one of his submarines.

[AVGWarhawk]

(I don't personally agree; I don't feel he ever really invented or created anyting; he mainly adapt edexisting technology and was a masterful marketing genius; you may now say horrible things about me on your iPhone/iPad...)


:har::har::har:

[Diopos]

Whoever has the time, search the Edison, Marconi, Tesla connection. Have a look at this (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/lostjournals/lostjournals00.htm)

Jobs, Edison, ... were there any virgins in Sodoma?

:hmmm:

.

[Tchocky]

Full marks for me (a guess of the largest state by 1921), although the URL for the correct answer page caught my roving eye

http://www.nps.gov/edis/forteachers/your-right.htm

:x

[MothBalls]

I don't see what all the fuss is myself. I don't think Jobs changed the world. I don't think Apple did either.

Ford, Wright Brothers, Edison, Tesla, many more to this list, they changed the world. John Bardeen, Walter Brattain, William Shockley, and Gilbert Hyatt made Jobs world possible, yet they don't get credit for it.

Nowadays new inventions are made by large corporations with huge R&D budgets. Most of those things are just improvements on existing technologies. I really can't think of the last invention that truly "changed the world".

Except maybe this one; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Fpsw_yYPg

[Tribesman]

Full marks for me (a guess of the largest state by 1921),
Thats the one that scuppered me. I said Alaska:88)

[vienna]

Looking over the other sets of questions, I can see many that I would have missed. This is like a trivia game, in that there is no real thinking involved - either you know the answers or you don't. If looking them up is allowed, then anyone can find them out. If it's not, then being familiar with any particular subject is a great help, and if you aren't familiar with a particular subject then you don't have a chance. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.

I don't think Edison intended the test to evaluate intelligence. It appears to be a test of broad, general knowledsge which, in a creative, inventive, innovative endeavour would be more imprtant than pure intelligence. There are a lot of people who score very, very high on intelligence tests who are not at all createive or inventive. It is rather like being a highly rated accountant in a company or firm; they are extremely capable at keeping the financials, but are incapable of contributing creatively to a company's product line. The people you want to advance your company's product are those people who (although I hate the cliche) think "outside the box". Consider, in a situation more familiar to subsim players, the history of WWII British itelligence and the codebreaking effort. They could have gone strictly with highly educated, field proficient academics, mathematicians, logicians, and the like, but someone, somewhere in the intelligence organization thought "outside the box" and realized the prinicipal attributes necessary to expidite codebraking were those found in highly adept chessplayers, crossword enthusiasts, word jumble and other puzzle players. British intelligence even covertly sponsored puzzle and game competitions to find those civilians who had the attribute they needed. An Oxford University math or logic professor or student could have come up with a masterful theoretical set of formulas and algorithms to try to break a code, but sometimes what is needed is more human intelligence, the instinctive ability to suss out the psychology of the code much as a puzzle or game player susses out the intent rather than the content of a problem thus lead to the actual content.

I think what Edison needed was not people who could just "do the math", he need people who were broadly educated and informed who could find answers not necessarily fond in texts. I have seen many examples of employees fresh out of college/university with impressive degrees and certifications who don't have an original thought in their head. My first job in Los Angeles, in 1970, was for a large national bank. I only had a high school diploma and no college education (still have never been to college, altough I do sometimes regret not having gone, if only for the experience). I applied for job as a mail clerk/messenger. The personnel department gave me a test and I was offered instead a psition in the accounting department. I told them I knew nothing of accounting and they said "We'll teach you". I took the job. (BTW, in today's impersonal, resume-based workplace hiring environment, such an offer would never be made.) Somehow, somewhere in that test, the personnel director saw something beyond the state of my education and decided the risk was worth it. In the many years following, I have made it a point to give more stock to a persons demonstrated abilities than to the dplomas and certificates wallpapering their offices. I have had many different positions over the years, as an employee and as a manager and I have always remembered the oppoptunity given to me by that bank and have tried to give the same oppotunity to others I have met in the workplace. I have taken many people who were overlooked or underappreciated in their jos and helped them to find the creativity inside of them and show it in their work and gain the respect of their managers. The greatest reward I get is seeing someone who was looked on being a drudge being seen as creative and an asset.
Edison's tests may seem somewhat silly or nonsensical, but, in the context of his work, there may have been "method in his madness"...

[Falkirion]

he mainly adapted existing technology and was a masterful marketing genius; you may now say horrible things about me on your iPhone/iPad...)
Include me amongst those that agree with you mate.

[razark]

Agreed. This is like bar trivia rather than something that would be a good indicator on someone's intelligence.
I got them all, but if it hadn't been for the multiple choice option, I probably would have missed a good number of them. I never knew Edison liked Trivial Pursuit so much.

[Sailor Steve]

Thats the one that scuppered me. I said Alaska:88)
But again it's just trivia. You can be forgiven for actually not knowing something about the United States. Were you even alive in 1959 when Alaska became a state? I attribute my knowing that to the fact that I remember it happening. :sunny:

[RickC Sniper]

Where is Tierra del Fuego? I just missed that one.

@Steve:
Can't you SEE Pike's Peak from Utah if you just look east?

(It really really helps you get that one right if you've actually been to the top of it half a dozen times.)
:ping:

[TLAM Strike]

Where is Tierra del Fuego? South tip of South America. Its a biggish island right off the coast.

Technically only one half belongs to Argentina. ;)
The other half is a mine field that belongs to Chile. :O:

[Sailor Steve]

@Steve:
Can't you SEE Pike's Peak from Utah if you just look east?
Uh, no. :88)

Not from where I'm at, anyway. Of course it doesn't help that for some reason I thought it was in California. Funny part is, I know who Zebulon Pike was.

[TLAM Strike]

Funny part is, I know who Zebulon Pike was.

He was the Captain of the Enterprise before Jim Kirk right? :hmmm:

[August]

You guys are looking at this test with 21st century eyes when it was designed for (an early) 20th century man. Bet they wouldn't have done so well.

[Herr-Berbunch]

14/17 Do I pass :hmmm:

Did not know what cotton gin was, most disappointed to find out it's not a drink made from juniper berries! :nope:

Nor did I know the second-smallest state. :doh:

Nor did I know the largest state in '21 (that's 1921 for those looking from beyond 2021). :shifty:

If I was American I may have known them, but then I wouldn't have thought I'd known about the other countries. :88)

[RickC Sniper]

[/FONT]
Funny part is, I know who Zebulon Pike was.


Odd but interesting how our brains decide to retain "this" piece of information but not "that" piece of information.
:salute:

[August]

Odd but interesting how our brains decide to retain "this" piece of information but not "that" piece of information.
:salute:

Zebulon Pike is a hard name to forget! :DL

[CaptainMattJ.]

i missed "where was the tierra del fuego" as i was going to put argentina, but thought against it :(

also missed pikes peak and the badlands.

I was actually amazed i knew all the other stuff though. My history teachers hardly taught me anything, as either i knew it all already or they kept babbling on about the emotions and whatever nonsense that could've obviously been inferred or they ranted about things that really didnt matter.

Thats why i really didnt like my English classes. They forced you to read (at least in my case) some painfully dull books. And they would rant about how every paragraph of the book was symbolizing the world in some way. Instead of simply reading the book and Maybe every so often ask those types of questions, they would try to break the story down page by page and get lost in flurries of tangents that, in all honesty, didnt make sense anyway.

But i think that little history quiz in the link was easy as pie. :up:

THEN AGAIN, those old timers had to just know itby heart, without multiple choice. Mightve gotten a couple more wrong..., and they couldve marked off answers that were partly right but didnt fit a certain criteria

[soopaman2]

That would have killed the average American of the time.

Give it 10 years, it will kill that generation too. If you keep letting them blame teachers (and police and firefighters) for deficits (like here in NJ)