Is the US Declaration of Independence illegal?

[Gerald]

Was the Declaration of Independence legal? In Philadelphia, American and British lawyers have debated the legality of America's founding documents.On Tuesday night, while Republican candidates in Nevada were debating such American issues as like nuclear waste disposal and the immigration status of Mitt Romney's gardener, American and British lawyers in Philadelphia were taking on a far more fundamental topic. Namely, just what did Thomas Jefferson think he was doing? Some background: during the hot and sweltering summer of 1776, members of the second Continental Congress travelled to Philadelphia to discuss their frustration with royal rule.By 4 July, America's founding fathers approved a simple document penned by Jefferson that enumerated their grievances and announced themselves a sovereign nation. Called the Declaration of Independence, it was a blow for freedom, a call to war, and the founding of a new empire. It was also totally illegitimate and illegal.At least, that was what lawyers from the UK argued during a debate at Philadelphia's Ben Franklin Hall on Tuesday night.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15345511

Note: 19 October 2011 Last updated at 17:14 GMT

[Betonov]

US won the war so it makes it de facto legal :O:

[Osmium Steele]

Of course it was!

Was there any provision in British law by which a colony could legally separate itself from the Commonwealth in 1776?

[soopaman2]

Bring it on.:03:

Nothing like a good streetfight between pals.:D

[mookiemookie]

Well yeah, it was illegal. That was kind of the point of armed rebellion. :88)

[Osmium Steele]

Yeah, this.:agree:

[Rockstar]

Lawyers, oh brother. Who gives a rats crap what they think. King George III didn't seem to when he agreed by signing a treaty to give the colonies their independence.

If anyone today disagrees with it then go ahead and break the treaty and try to take it back. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened in this world.

Go for it, I double dog dare ya. :D

[Sailor Steve]

Kind of silly, actually.

To the British, however, secession isn't the legal or proper tool by which to settle internal disputes. "What if Texas decided today it wanted to secede from the Union? Lincoln made the case against secession and he was right," they argue in their brief.
Lincoln's "case" was to win that war. If the South had won Britain, France and the rest would have recognized them and their secession would have thus been legal.

The Declaration of Independence was not only illegal, but actually treasonable.
Under British law it certainly was illegal and treasonable, which is why Franklin made his famous statement: "Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or most certainly we will all hang separately." We were already at war, and had been for over a year. The Colonial Governor of Massachussetts started it by trying to exercise gun control. The Declaration was an explanation of why we were already fighting, not an excuse to start it.

[Betonov]

King George III didn't seem to when he agreed by signing a treaty to give the colonies their independence.

Wait, isn't an official document signed by a sovereign of ''the parent'' state the definite proof that the declaration was legal :hmmm:
Or are they just BSing if it weas legal the time it was written

[vienna]

Way back in my grade school, a nun asked the class, "When is a revolution legal?" None of us ventured an answer. She then said "It is legal if you win." I believed that answer then and I do now. History is written by the victors; we won, we were right, and, our revolution was legal...

[TLAM Strike]

Ok it's illegal! :doh:

God save the Queen! :salute:

Congratulations your Majesty you just inherited £9.4 billion in debt! :yeah:

[TLAM Strike]

Wait, isn't an official document signed by a sovereign of ''the parent'' state the definite proof that the declaration was legal :hmmm:

:yep::yep::yep:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_%281783%29

Article 1: Acknowledging the Thirteen Colonies to be free, sovereign and independent States, and that the British Crown and all heirs and successors relinquish claims to the Government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same, and every part thereof;

[Betonov]

:hmmm: but that makes me wonder, Yugoslavia never signed a ''1991 version of Paris treaty'' thus relinquishing sovereign territory to independent Slovenia. Only a cease fire was declared and soon afterwards the parent state was no more, no treaty was ever made :hmmm: Oh my god, we are a nation of squaters :o

[Sailor Steve]

If the parent state no longer exists, who's going to complain? :sunny:

[vienna]

Ok it's illegal! :doh:

God save the Queen! :salute:

Congratulations your Majesty you just inherited £9.4 billion in debt! :yeah:



:haha::haha::haha:

[Betonov]

If the parent state no longer exists, who's going to complain? :sunny:

Austria :doh: There was no treaty with them in 1918 :hmmm:

[Oberon]

Ok it's illegal! :doh:

God save the Queen! :salute:

Congratulations your Majesty you just inherited £9.4 billion in debt! :yeah:

http://moblog.net/media/s/i/o/sionengland/happy-queen-sad-queen-1.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Ok it's illegal! :doh:

God save the Queen! :salute:

Congratulations your Majesty you just inherited £9.4 billion in debt! :yeah:

LMAO :har:

Oh...wait!! :o

[AVGWarhawk]

Does this mean Jim is going to show up in a red coat with a musket? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

No problem....just don't expect the waxed wig :o

[Diopos]

If the parent state no longer exists, who's going to complain? :sunny:

The other offspring of the parent ... :hmmm:

.

[Oberon]

The other offspring of the parent ... :hmmm:

.

Which one?

We were rather...prolific...

[Betonov]

But you're spread out in the world, a Canada there, Australia way down there... But we're crammed in a third of a peninsula :dead:
Like little children arguing over a pillow and dreaming how good it was when the bones on the bed were still alive

[Jimbuna]

We don't even own bones to argue over these days :doh:

[JU_88]

Ok it's illegal! :doh:

God save the Queen! :salute:

Congratulations your Majesty you just inherited £9.4 billion in debt! :yeah:


The good news is she can afford to pay about 80% of it off (sort of) :DL
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/royal-special-how-rich-is-the-queen-and-what-does-she-really-own-606171.html

[JSLTIGER]

Lawyers, oh brother. Who gives a rats crap what they think.

Thanks for that...as a newly admitted member to the Florida Bar, I really appreciate comments like those.

Maybe I should not bother to visit these forums. After all, no one "gives a rats crap what [I] think." :nope:

That being said, this is a pretty inane thing to argue about...illegal or not, the U.S. isn't going back to British possession, so who cares?

[Takeda Shingen]

Well yeah, it was illegal. That was kind of the point of armed rebellion. :88)

That was pretty much the point of it.

[Jimbuna]

Thanks for that...as a newly admitted member to the Florida Bar, I really appreciate comments like those.

Maybe I should not bother to visit these forums. After all, no one "gives a rats crap what [I] think." :nope:

That being said, this is a pretty inane thing to argue about...illegal or not, the U.S. isn't going back to British possession, so who cares?

Keep a cool head, your in GT :03:

[Platapus]

A rebellion is always legal in the first person, such as "our rebellion." It is only in the third person - "their rebellion" - that it becomes illegal. From the movie 1776. :D

[Lord Justice]

No problem....just don't expect the waxed wig :o It is ones duty :03:

If the parent state no longer exists, who's going to complain? :sunny:I sit awake in fear that I shall be called on. :sunny:

[Sailor Steve]

Which one?

We were rather...prolific...
Umm...Slovenia was part of the Commonwealth?

[Rockstar]

Thanks for that...as a newly admitted member to the Florida Bar, I really appreciate comments like those.

Maybe I should not bother to visit these forums. After all, no one "gives a rats crap what [I] think." :nope:


Nothing personal, Honestly congratulations on being accepted to the Florida BAR it takes a lot of serious effort, hard work, time, and talent to achieve that. You got my respect :salute:

But I'm still gonna talk smack about your profession every chance i get. :D You know what they say, pick your rate choose your fate.

[Lord Justice]

But I'm still gonna talk smack about your profession every chance i get. :D You know what they say, pick your rate choose your fate.If such is to be had, then might I be obliged to feast me eyes that it be met with an orderly response. :yep:

[nikimcbee]

American and British lawyers have debated...

:har:

Sounds like candidate for the unemployment line. They spent all of that money on a law degree for that?:hmmm: Time to thin the lawyer herd.

[nikimcbee]

Thanks for that...as a newly admitted member to the Florida Bar, I really appreciate comments like those.

Maybe I should not bother to visit these forums. After all, no one "gives a rats crap what [I] think." :nope:

That being said, this is a pretty inane thing to argue about...illegal or not, the U.S. isn't going back to British possession, so who cares?

Hey congrats.:salute: What did you get your law degree in?

[Onkel Neal]

US won the war so it makes it de facto legal :O:

That's pretty much how it works :)

Same for the Civil War and WWII.

This is turning into the best thread since the WW hunt.

[Gerald]

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5075/56138723declaration2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/56138723declaration2.jpg/)
Did the Founding Fathers have any respect for the law?

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3862/56159887declaration1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/56159887declaration1.jpg/)
The Declaration emerged from the second Continental Congress.

[Jimbuna]

That's pretty much how it works :)

Same for the Civil War and WWII.

This is turning into the best thread since the WW hunt.

Said like a true Texan :DL

[Gerald]

A true statement,:yep:

[Oberon]

Umm...Slovenia was part of the Commonwealth?

Slovenia? Ah, no, we kept out of that one. Too close to Italy. :yep:

[TLAM Strike]

Slovenia? Ah, no, we kept out of that one. Too close to Italy. :yep:

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5007/italyt.jpg

[Gerald]

:D..

[Jimbuna]

Slovenia? Ah, no, we kept out of that one. Too close to Italy. :yep:

Right on...no oil :03:

[Takeda Shingen]

:D..

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/940/necroqcj.jpg

[nikimcbee]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/940/necroqcj.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

[Gerald]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/940/necroqcj.jpg Good thinking..."only a couple of months old"

[yubba]

I heard this months ago but here goes. To the victor go the spoils, in the mood I'm in I'd be more than happy to show you what we did to your red coated ancestors back in the day, but first we got some progressives here at home that think we should be more like europe, to take care of first, I can smell the tar and feathers cooking. Can you smell la la la la la the fear in our government, it won't be long before it turns on us, if it hasn't already, I believe we have been sold out, left holding the bag, snuckered, bamboozeled, ripped off, cheated, lied to, and enslaved to a national debt that we nor our great great grand childeren will ever get out from under I don't know about you but I worry alot about my kids future. Time to get our heads out of our torpedo tubes, the game is a foot.:o Or maybe we should give back Germany all the ground it gained in WW 2 because we were a illegitimit country, same goes with Japan, now I get it, that's why Mr. O was going around the world saying he was sorry.

[Takeda Shingen]

Good thinking..."only a couple of months old"

Okay. So then why did you necro this thread?

[frau kaleun]

Okay. So then why did you necro this thread?

Because he finally ran out of random pictures to post in the Comment Thread. :har:

[Gerald]

Okay. So then why did you necro this thread? For the simple reason that it had more to give above the surface of an underground.

[Gerald]

Because he finally ran out of random pictures to post in the Comment Thread. :har: Behave now keep in mind that the pictures of you, I have them saved to a more suitable time to load up,:O:

[1480]

A poli-sci professor once explained the difference between the war of Independence and the war for the Union. "One was fought over a principal, the other fought over an illegal action. So there was no difference"

As he meant and as others on this board have pointed out, depending on which side you were on, those wars were fought for very different reasons.

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl2: How true. :rock:

[Jimbuna]

Because he finally ran out of random pictures to post in the Comment Thread. :har:

:hmmm:

LOL :DL