Immersion

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Kind of a different topic. I was just wondering (and I hope RockinRobbins posts on here because he likes to talk about his immersion into the Silent Hunter World, which is what gave me the idea for this post ) how many people are like me here in the submarine simulation world. For me, I like to conduct my patrols at real time. When I get home from work I catch my clock up to what time it is here (Central Daylight Time), and then park myself on the bridge of my beautiful boat, kick on the radio (courtesy of the Silent Hunter 4 sound mod Hawaiian Radio Music pts 1 - 4 ), and kick back in my chair and read a book. To others this may seem a bit boring but for me, this is great stuff. I get to be a sub skipper, at real time. On weekends I do not have to work, I'm going to try and incorporate another type of immersion into the game. Setting the speakers louder than normal so that important events can awake me from my sleep and I can resume my duties at the conn. It brings so much more to the game to be able to experience not only the thrill of the hunt, the terror of being hunted, but also the boredom and idleness of being at sea for long periods of time. Now that's what I call realism factor of 100% :) I'd like fellow Captains to post their stories here of how they immersify themselves in their little submarine world.

[Arlo]

Kind of a different topic. I was just wondering (and I hope RockinRobbins posts on here because he likes to talk about his immersion into the Silent Hunter World, which is what gave me the idea for this post ) how many people are like me here in the submarine simulation world. For me, I like to conduct my patrols at real time. When I get home from work I catch my clock up to what time it is here (Central Daylight Time), and then park myself on the bridge of my beautiful boat, kick on the radio (courtesy of the Silent Hunter 4 sound mod Hawaiian Radio Music pts 1 - 4 ), and kick back in my chair and read a book. To others this may seem a bit boring but for me, this is great stuff. I get to be a sub skipper, at real time. On weekends I do not have to work, I'm going to try and incorporate another type of immersion into the game. Setting the speakers louder than normal so that important events can awake me from my sleep and I can resume my duties at the conn. It brings so much more to the game to be able to experience not only the thrill of the hunt, the terror of being hunted, but also the boredom and idleness of being at sea for long periods of time. Now that's what I call realism factor of 100% :) I'd like fellow Captains to post their stories here of how they immersify themselves in their little submarine world.

I think it's cool and if I had the luxury, I'd be tempted to do the same. Alas, my beautiful (and fun) bride, demands of being a father (step and otherwise), scheduled visits to see a doc from time to time, the in-laws ... well, you get it. It would take me the better part of a couple of years to finish a patrol. That and I'm spending time on a website that seems more of a passion than the game, itself, now.

But ahhhhh .... a month of your kinda immersion would be a nice escape. If only the Mrs. would share me with it and offer periodic 'shore leave' without demoting me for dereliction of duty.

I hope she never finds this forum. :o

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Ah yes. I hear you there. Fortunately for me my Mrs. is rather intrigued by this and enjoys history almost as much as I. That and she thinks the hum of the diesels, combined with the sound of the Pacific waters against the hull, and the songs of the old Hawaiian radio make for a quiet, peacefull time.

[Arlo]

Ah yes. I hear you there. Fortunately for me my Mrs. is rather intrigued by this and enjoys history almost as much as I. That and she thinks the hum of the diesels, combined with the sound of the Pacific waters against the hull, and the songs of the old Hawaiian radio make for a quiet, peacefull time.

Well, maybe mine'll come around. I once asked her if there was a 'SubSim/SH4 re-enactor uniformed ball thingie' (Cod what a geek I am) if she would dress 40s period and go along and she said yes. I'm guessin' she figures the odds are slim. *chuckle*

[razark]

I once asked her if there was a 'SubSim/SH4 re-enactor uniformed ball thingie' if she would dress 40s period and go along and she said yes.
So, you're organizing a Subsim meet, then? When and where is it?
:D

[Sailor Steve]

For me turning on the game and letting it run while I do something else is not immersion, nor is it actually playing the game. I run in and out of harbors in real time, and conduct attacks that way, but I've never understood how not playing the game in real time is any more "real" than using time compression. When I was in the navy I spent a lot of my time wishing I was somewhere else.

If you really want to experience the boredom and idleness, don't read a book, don't listen to the radio, don't do anything but sit and stare at the screen, for hours on end. Otherwise you're not playing the game at all, you're ignoring it.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Otherwise you're not playing the game at all, you're ignoring it.

In a way perhaps, but crewman had things to do to keep their mind off the monotony. In a sense ignoring events around them. Or lack of events thereof. Writing letters, keeping journals, etc. In the book "Iron Coffins" the auther tells of buying books in port to read in off-duty hours.


If you really want to experience the boredom and idleness, don't read a book, don't listen to the radio, don't do anything but sit and stare at the screen, for hours on end


I catch myself doing that a lot too. Its just.... well.... fun!

[razark]

In the book "Iron Coffins" the auther tells of buying books in port to read in off-duty hours.
The problem is that in game, it's never off-duty hours.

If you really want to experience the boredom and idleness, don't read a book, don't listen to the radio, don't do anything but sit and stare at the screen, for hours on end.
I already have a game for that. It's called a job.

[I'm goin' down]

:nope:

[19Herr_Rapp86]

What are you shaking your head about IGD? Whats up

[19Herr_Rapp86]

The problem is that in game, it's never off-duty hours.



Create your own. As we all know we all have an imagination of some sort or we wouldn't be here at this particular forum. This is what I do (when time permits of course). You have 3 watch shifts correct? For the number 1 shift, I do sit and stare at the screen for hours on end. I do practice diving drills, sounding runs, observe the seas, frequently check maps, etc etc. When the whistle blows to signal next watch I click to go below decks and then do my thing. Go up to the bridge for an occasional peek. Then resume when watch 1 takes over again. It's how I like to do things. Not right or wrong. Everybody has their own way of playing the game and immersing themselves in it.

[Arlo]

So, you're organizing a Subsim meet, then? When and where is it?
:D

Never Again Volunteer Yourself ....

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Nice website... Your fleetboatsim.com

[Sailor Steve]

In a way perhaps, but crewman had things to do to keep their mind off the monotony. In a sense ignoring events around them. Or lack of events thereof. Writing letters, keeping journals, etc. In the book "Iron Coffins" the auther tells of buying books in port to read in off-duty hours.
Been there, done that. Eating, reading, watching a movie, even sleeping, you can feel the motion and smell the salt air. The ship is a part of you. For me, no game can ever replicated that, at least not the current generation. I put the game in to get away from reading, sleeping and the boredom of real life. If there was some kind of helmet or real-life holodeck, then sure.

But that's just me.

On the other hand I've been playing computer subsims for twenty-five years.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

25 years. Wow!!! Nice. And yeah nothing really replicates the real thing. Just like all this call of duty modern warfare stuff can't replicate what it was like patrolling the streets of some few towns in Iraq with my Marines. I hear you there

[Sailor Steve]

25 years. Wow!!! Nice.
Yeah, I first played Silent Service in 1986. Long time ago.

And yeah nothing really replicates the real thing. Just like all this call of duty modern warfare stuff can't replicate what it was like patrolling the streets of some few towns in Iraq with my Marines. I hear you there
I wish UnderseaLCPL was still coming around. He was there too. You guys might hit it off. :sunny:

[WernherVonTrapp]

Just like all this call of duty modern warfare stuff can't replicate what it was like patrolling the streets of some few towns in Iraq with my Marines...:salute:I salute you, sir. Thank you for serving our country.:up:

[Arlo]

Nice website... Your fleetboatsim.com

Thanks! It's WIP but my lil contribution. :)

[Armistead]

Playing this game in true real time....really. I think it's time to pick up your prescription.:03:

[Arlo]

Playing this game in true real time....really. I think it's time to pick up your prescription.:03:

Heck, had a daydream the other night (if that isn't confusing enough) that I made a simulator conn complete with operational simulated periscope (scope screen display), TDC (physical, not displayed), plot table, sonar and radar (combo display/physical knobs/headphones) for 5 or 6 players with crew voices piped in just for the stations not manned. It had an hydraulic pedestal capable of up to a 30' tilt in any direction, was fully enclosed and lighted.

That would be my secret lotto-winnings play-toy in the den or basement.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Playing this game in true real time....really. I think it's time to pick up your prescription.:03:
:har: :har: :har:

[CptLoonee]

I hope she never finds this forum. :o

You know you're a nerd when this is the thing you don't want your wife finding out about :)

I can say that because I am literally in the same boat lol

[19Herr_Rapp86]

:salute:I salute you, sir. Thank you for serving our country.:up:

Thank you good sir :)

[19Herr_Rapp86]

And Arlo, if you really wanted to go all out, you could install pneumatic wheels underneath your house for depth charge simulation. I think your wife would be okay with that! :har:

[Rockin Robbins]

Part of real life that can never really be replicated by a simulator is that of standing watch, like Steve says. If you're lucky you're outside on the periscope shears scanning the horizon with binoculars that seem like they weigh several tons, back an forth across your quadrant in a prescribed search pattern over and over again for four hours.

You can't allow yourself to stop and think about anything else, read a book or even to take the binoculars away from your eyes except to clean the lenses. Then it's back, scanning the empty ocean hour after hour on the off-chance that one week you'll actually sight an opportunity or a threat. It's perhaps the most grueling, boring job on the boat, and everyone's safety depends on it, including your own!

If you're not so lucky you could spend four hours scanning pressure gauges on the off-chance that one might be anomalous one day.

No game would reproduce that because people wouldn't buy the simulation of boredom/vigilance.

There are times when I just go to 1x, hit the bridge, turn up the tunes and enjoy the submarine. But most of the time I'm playing I have a pretty set routine.



When I'm just in transit, I'm at 2048x or two steps higher at night, relying on my radar to pick up targets. If i'm in a target-rich area, I will go to periscope depth periodically, throttle back to 1x and do a sweep every 40 miles or so.
When I'm in a high traffic area in the daytime I never go above 1024x and sometimes 512x because I want to pop out of TC with plenty of time to react. If your time compression is too high you can pop out in the middle of a not so friendly fleet of DDs. That's not nice.
In air patrolled areas I'm at max 1024x. When I pop out for a plane sighting, I draw a 5 mile radius circle around my boat, mark the position of the plane and go to 8x. If the plane will enter the 5 mile radius I go to periscope depth with the "P" key, no crash dive. I time the dive so I'm at 40' or below when he crosses the line. I raise the radar antenna. If the plane is not coming closer than a mile I'll just sit there and watch him go by. If he is coming closer than a mile but not directly overhead, I'll lower the antenna long enough for him to pass and pop it back up when he's a mile away going away. If he's coming directly overhead in smooth water, I'll take her to 110', hit periscope depth immediately when I reach depth, pop up the antenna. In all cases when he passes the 5 mile circle going away I hit surface. I'm at 8x or 16x all during this.
Back on the surface I go back to my normal time compression of 1024x.
Upon contact with enemy vessels, either by sonar or by radar, I begin running at 1x and don't leave real time until the end of the engagement.

That's pretty much it. Sometimes if I have a long range sonar contact I'll use limited time compression to see how the bearing changes on approach. But in all cases, once there is visual contact I never leave 1x.

So pretty much, if I'm not in action and want to enjoy the sub, I do it. But otherwise time compression is my friend.:D

[Armistead]

TC is a must for me, I find realism in mods, playing with contacts and cams off, etc. Now with cams and contacts off you do have to play at real time for the most part when coming in contact with the enemy. Being stuck in the sub with no cam to see what's going on is enough realism for me, often it takes hours to attack and evade.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Very interesting stuff guys.

[Arlo]

Well, I'll never set up my pc rig in the shower-tub anymore. That amount of realism just didn't float.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

By the way RR I like your Kraken Skin, though at the moment am trying out the Coral Sea skins

[Rockin Robbins]

That was done by CaptainCox, Foofighters and Digital Trucker, three skippers who are no longer around here.:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

That was done by CaptainCox, Foofighters and Digital Trucker, three skippers who are no longer around here.:salute:
There was a guy who did it first, and got written up in a gaming magazine. His screen name was Ratzz, or something like that. Golden Rivet also did a patrol in real time a couple of years ago.

For me playing chess with a friend, or reading a book or watching a movie was an escape from the monotony. I'd spend eight hours in the radio shack, not allowed to do anything but monitor equipment or talk to the other guys on duty. The eight hours off, then eight back on again. So it was 0800-1600 working, 1600-2400 off, then 0000-0800 on, 0800-1600 off, and around and around. Twenty-four hours on duty out of every forty-eight.

One day when I had the 1600-2400 off I stayed up and wrote a couple of letters and watched a movie they were showing. This meant that I was up for twenty-four hours, but I didn't notice. Another time I had the midwatch off. I ate dinner and went to bed at about 1700 hours, slept through the rest of that watch (normal), slept through the midwatch, slept through the next regular watch off, and got up to go on duty at 1600 the next day, which means that I slept through three watches, or about 22 hours straight.

Interesting midwatch things: We would keep old radio traffic for six months, then shred it. The junior man on the midwatch got assigned to take the shred-bags back to the fantail and dump them. Mostly it was just another job to be done, but one time the sea was running high, and then it was...entertaining. Three times I had to carry the big, but light, bag from the radio shack down the ladder and back to the aft end of the superstructure. Wait for the ship roll upright. Open the door and step out to the deck, turn around and dog the door, then back around and grab the rail with the free hand, holding the bag in the other while the deck dipped below the waves and water swirled around my knees. Wait for the ship to roll upright and dash to the fantail, grab the rail there and hold on for the next roll. Dump the bag and then hang on again. Run back to the door and hang on for the next roll, then inside again.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/bbass-1-1.jpg

No game can replicate that. Nor should it. On the other hand, the captain didn't have to fight hours of boredom. His time was mostly taken up working on reports, meeting with his officers in the wardroom, being on the bridge and doing captainy things. The game also doesn't do that. For me there is no difference from letting the game run by itself and using time compression. The game can't reproduce real life at sea, so for me a 1x patrol is about as unrealistic as it can get. I can't imagine a WW2 army game in which most of the gameplay is spent eating, sleeping and marching, occasionally broken by a six-hour ride in the back of a truck. How about an airwar game that also includes time spent partying in the nearest town, getting into trouble and spending time in the brig, or sitting around the barracks playing pinochle? Not for me, thanks.

[Daniel Prates]

Interesting story, Steve. :up:

[I'm goin' down]

His radio station mod was terrific. But he was custodian of the ship building mod, and built custom boats for many of the seasoned veterans in his shipyard. He built me a Gato, the SS Barbarinna, and a Gar. I still use them to this day.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

I'd spend eight hours in the radio shack, not allowed to do anything but monitor equipment or talk to the other guys on duty.
I know that feeling. General Order #7. Talk to no one except in the line of duty.


How about an airwar game that also includes time spent partying in the nearest town, getting into trouble and spending time in the brig, or sitting around the barracks playing pinochle?


That reminds me.... Does anyone remember Aces of the Deep? The nightclub? Where you could listen to rumors and brags from other U-Boat crews. Would be kinda neat to incorporate that into the Silent Hunter Franchise or something similar to it

[Sailor Steve]

That reminds me.... Does anyone remember Aces of the Deep? The nightclub? Where you could listen to rumors and brags from other U-Boat crews. Would be kinda neat to incorporate that into the Silent Hunter Franchise or something similar to it
I not only remember AOTD, I still play it. And JScones incorporated the nightclub as one of the many great features of SH3 Commander. Unfortunately no one with the requisite coding skills has done anything like Commander for SH4, which is one of the very few reasons I still play SH3.

[Daniel Prates]

I second Rapp's and Steve's motion. All Dynamix games games had this feature, such as aces over europe and others. You would get constant news, gossip and info about the ongoing war. The guys at the bar, in AOTD, would always comment on any capital ship sunk... that was great, and did much more towards game immersion, than SH5's weird "walk around the sub" interface.

[Arlo]

I know that feeling. General Order #7. Talk to no one except in the line of duty.



That reminds me.... Does anyone remember Aces of the Deep? The nightclub? Where you could listen to rumors and brags from other U-Boat crews. Would be kinda neat to incorporate that into the Silent Hunter Franchise or something similar to it

Well, my thoughts ran to maybe a brothel but the wife is currently at peace with the game and such a thing may end piece in real life. But being able to hang out a bit at the Royal Hawaiian would be kinda cool or maybe at a spare parts casino arranged by the supply officer if you're stationed more in the sticks.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc198/lancedean/papaw/sandlancecommission.jpg

Seems Gleason was busy.

[iambecomelife]

There was a guy who did it first, and got written up in a gaming magazine. His screen name was Ratzz, or something like that. Golden Rivet also did a patrol in real time a couple of years ago.

For me playing chess with a friend, or reading a book or watching a movie was an escape from the monotony. I'd spend eight hours in the radio shack, not allowed to do anything but monitor equipment or talk to the other guys on duty. The eight hours off, then eight back on again. So it was 0800-1600 working, 1600-2400 off, then 0000-0800 on, 0800-1600 off, and around and around. Twenty-four hours on duty out of every forty-eight.

One day when I had the 1600-2400 off I stayed up and wrote a couple of letters and watched a movie they were showing. This meant that I was up for twenty-four hours, but I didn't notice. Another time I had the midwatch off. I ate dinner and went to bed at about 1700 hours, slept through the rest of that watch (normal), slept through the midwatch, slept through the next regular watch off, and got up to go on duty at 1600 the next day, which means that I slept through three watches, or about 22 hours straight.

Interesting midwatch things: We would keep old radio traffic for six months, then shred it. The junior man on the midwatch got assigned to take the shred-bags back to the fantail and dump them. Mostly it was just another job to be done, but one time the sea was running high, and then it was...entertaining. Three times I had to carry the big, but light, bag from the radio shack down the ladder and back to the aft end of the superstructure. Wait for the ship roll upright. Open the door and step out to the deck, turn around and dog the door, then back around and grab the rail with the free hand, holding the bag in the other while the deck dipped below the waves and water swirled around my knees. Wait for the ship to roll upright and dash to the fantail, grab the rail there and hold on for the next roll. Dump the bag and then hang on again. Run back to the door and hang on for the next roll, then inside again.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/bbass-1-1.jpg

No game can replicate that. Nor should it. On the other hand, the captain didn't have to fight hours of boredom. His time was mostly taken up working on reports, meeting with his officers in the wardroom, being on the bridge and doing captainy things. The game also doesn't do that. For me there is no difference from letting the game run by itself and using time compression. The game can't reproduce real life at sea, so for me a 1x patrol is about as unrealistic as it can get. I can't imagine a WW2 army game in which most of the gameplay is spent eating, sleeping and marching, occasionally broken by a six-hour ride in the back of a truck. How about an airwar game that also includes time spent partying in the nearest town, getting into trouble and spending time in the brig, or sitting around the barracks playing pinochle? Not for me, thanks.

Interesting post.

I myself was working on replicating life at sea for SH3/SH4 through a role-playing supplement, playable with dice. The plan was to have maybe 1-2 interactions per day with randomly selected crewmembers, with randomized personality types ("Bully", "Coward", "Family Man" or whatever), background-stories, and events. This would also have provided additional data on ship sinkings, etc. for Silent Hunter 4 the same way SH3 Commander does for SH3.

I doubt most people would have been interested in that kind of thing, but it was lots of fun to work on.

Too bad I lost it all in a crash last month! :damn:

[19Herr_Rapp86]

Interesting idea there


I not only remember AOTD, I still play it. And JScones incorporated the nightclub as one of the many great features of SH3 Commander. Unfortunately no one with the requisite coding skills has done anything like Commander for SH4, which is one of the very few reasons I still play SH3.


Good to know I'm not the only one that still plays it. One of the best DOS games I had, along with TIE Fighter and Transport Tycoon. I haven't tried SH3 commander yet, but its still on my computer with GWX. Always going back and forth between it and SH4

[iambecomelife]

Interesting idea there



Good to know I'm not the only one that still plays it. One of the best DOS games I had, along with TIE Fighter and Transport Tycoon. I haven't tried SH3 commander yet, but its still on my computer with GWX. Always going back and forth between it and SH4

It's funny how DOS games nearly 20 years ago had all these little immersive features - I remember one Sci-fi game where you could walk around a starship, talk to the bartender, meet crewmembers, and even play video games (within the video game)! This was on top of excellent starfighter simulation gameplay.

Whenever we ask present day devs with their vast budgets to do something similar for powerful, modern computers what happens? We get the usual spiel about how it's "not feasible", would "take up space", and would be "too complicated to code". :roll:

[joea]

Excellent thread folks, very interesting. Frankly while I like "immersive" elements like radio broadcasts, phonographs etc. I never understood the 1x appeal myself-it can be a grind even with time compression. Still the grapical immersion sometimes hypnotises me-especially with some interesting weather or at sunrise/sunset.

[19Herr_Rapp86]

I guess I'm just weird then because I love 1x :P
But then again look at the picture of me in my sig! lol