Nanny State in the EU?

[AVGWarhawk]

Children are to be banned from taking part in traditional Christmas games, from blowing up balloons to blowing on party whistles, because of new EU safety rules that have just entered into force.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8816601/Children-to-be-banned-from-blowing-up-balloons-under-EU-safety-rules.html

[Betonov]

Great, by the time I have children I will not be allowed to walk with them in the forrest, since they could trip and fall

[soopaman2]

That is is load of "toy whistles".

We have people who sue here if you put up a huge Christmas tree no Menorah. Also if the menorah is smaller, out come the lawyers. If you get enough atheists who feel like causing trouble and have a few bucks, even they can block township Christmas decorations.

But thats a town thing, this just seems authoritarian, am I missing something due to culture differences?


I always though Europe was more tolerant than us brutes south of Canada, and less prone to people being offended. More classy I guess.
I am truly intrigued on the reasoning behind this, even the tinfoil hat theories.
Is it some leftover Crusades Christian remorse thing or some leftover blowback from an Austrian painter with sour morals?

Edit: Seems like an attack on a religion to me..Just the American in me, but it seems wrong.

[Betonov]

Nope, it's just fat cats in suits thinking up crazy and absurd laws so they look like they're actually working. No deep morals or regrets, just useless buerocrats trying to prove they earned their pay and failing miserably

[soopaman2]

Nope, it's just fat cats in suits thinking up crazy and absurd laws so they look like they're actually working. No deep morals or regrets, just useless buerocrats trying to prove they earned their pay and failing miserably


Oh Betonov, we have them here too!
*tries not to laugh*
They truly know what the people want.
*die laughing*

I'm kinda glad (sorry) that we aren't the only country going down the "Hello Kitty" route.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'll have you know that I'm a:


http://rlv.zcache.com/lawn_darts_survivor_poster-p228994253125133151t5wm_400.jpg


I think the kids can survive a party whistle and balloon.

[Skybird]

Sometimes I am left with just looking forward to all this decadent and degenerated place blowing up in shine and radiation. :dead:

[Betonov]

Here's one for Sky, he knows more about the legislation in the EU

what would happen if by some miracle my goverment in Ljubljana had the cohones to tell Brussels that this law is absurd and will not implement it under any circumstances ??

[STEED]

Get stuffed EU. :hulk:

BTW: Have you the EU signed off your accounts yet?
A 15 year joke! :rotfl2:

[antikristuseke]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8816601/Children-to-be-banned-from-blowing-up-balloons-under-EU-safety-rules.html

this is uter bull.

[Skybird]

Here's one for Sky, he knows more about the legislation in the EU

what would happen if by some miracle my goverment in Ljubljana had the cohones to tell Brussels that this law is absurd and will not implement it under any circumstances ??
I assume that the commission or the responsible commissioner would warn and warn, and finally would launch a EU legal prosecution against your country, which could lead to either the case being brought to a EU court and your government getting sentenced to comply, or the proclamation of financial fines by the commissioner's ressort office.

I do not know it for sure.

[Jimbuna]

The EU ayt it's embarrassing best :nope:

[nikimcbee]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8816601/Children-to-be-banned-from-blowing-up-balloons-under-EU-safety-rules.html

I see your nanny state and raise you one. Kali-fornia has banned tanning for kids.:haha:

Time to move to boarder and open a tanning salon.:hmmm:

[Egan]

That is is load of "toy whistles".

We have people who sue here if you put up a huge Christmas tree no Menorah. Also if the menorah is smaller, out come the lawyers. If you get enough atheists who feel like causing trouble and have a few bucks, even they can block township Christmas decorations.


For the record, I'm an atheist and I like Christmas. So does the Muslim guy that runs the shop downstairs from my flat. Funnily enough, the couple of people I know who seem to dislike it the most are Christians. I bet Jesus would rather come 'round to my place on Christmas day to have a glass or two of port and watch the Bond film than go to their place. I'd sing Happy Birthday and everything. Would he need two presents, though? Hmmm.

[Dowly]

For the record, I'm an atheist and I like Christmas.

Same here. :yep:

[papa_smurf]

UK Independence Party going to love this.

[soopaman2]

For the record, I'm an atheist and I like Christmas. So does the Muslim guy that runs the shop downstairs from my flat. Funnily enough, the couple of people I know who seem to dislike it the most are Christians. I bet Jesus would rather come 'round to my place on Christmas day to have a glass or two of port and watch the Bond film than go to their place. I'd sing Happy Birthday and everything. Would he need two presents, though? Hmmm.

Me as well, I am adept at mocking but I respect the kindness of Christ.. Heck my real name is Christian... (Italian American thing, all boys have to be named biblically, Peter, Paul, Daniel etc).
But I enjoy Christmas as well. The kids, man...You can never destroy a childs beliefs. America is lawsuit happy. We have a thing about "separation of church and state" that some folks use to kill the general happy time for everyone.

Sorry to derail:-?

[Tribesman]

this is uter bull.
Well done, I am glad someone noticed.
just another rubbish headline for a rubbish story.:03:
The Telegraph used to be a decent paper, now its just a clone of the Daily Mail.

All this is is an update of the consumer laws from 1988 though they had some very minor changes in 1999, the only real changes are on labels and on the chemicals which can be included in toys for under 14s...unless of course the toy has an engine in which case some cargiogenic substances are still permitted for under 14s toys.

Tell you what though people, if you really believe this legislation bans kids blowing up ballons or using whistles at christmas then give every kid a nice little slingshot to bring to their christmas parties.:yeah:
Wierd ain't it, slingshots and catapults don't count as toys, neither do a whole pile of other toys...then again just to demonstrate how much this story is just pure bull from a crappy journalist..... balloons don't count as toys so are excluded from the legislation.

Here's one for Sky, he knows more about the legislation in the EU

You have got to be kidding:har::har::har::har:
If that were the case he wouldn't be caught out repeatedly inventing "EU legislation"
In this case he will probably take the maximum permitted levels of arsenic that a toy may contain, treble it and insist it is really the bare minimum that each toy must contain from the secret EU dictat.

[Tribesman]

UK Independence Party going to love this.
Yeah, like they loved the story about the cat which they sold to your Home Secretary....that turned out to be very embarrasing bull didn't it.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

@Tribesman

If this articles' content is effectively Daily Fail Mk 2 then could you provide link to alternative article or explain what this EU thing actually changes?

[Tribesman]

Kraznyi do you want a link to 88/378 and 09/48?

[Respenus]

I assume that the commission or the responsible commissioner would warn and warn, and finally would launch a EU legal prosecution against your country, which could lead to either the case being brought to a EU court and your government getting sentenced to comply, or the proclamation of financial fines by the commissioner's ressort office.

I do not know it for sure.

Will all due respect Sky, you are more or less right. Slovenia would, under EU law, be required to either put into effect (regulation) or transpose into national law (directive) a certain piece of legislation as adopted by the EU Parliament and the Council of the EU (people keep forgetting countries accept must approve legislation). If Slovenia did not comply, it would get a warning, which, if not respected, would put Slovenia in danger of appearing before the ECJ. In a certain period of time, Slovenia would still have the opportunity to actually do something and the Commission would request that the proceedings stop. If Slovenia decided during all this time to screw Brussels (even though it voted for the law at the EU level), the ECJ would decide if the country either broke the rules by not putting into effect, transposing, or transposing completely the piece of legislation. It is also possible for it not the be applied properly and this is why a court inside a member state can demand that the ECJ gives its legal opinion on the matter of the interpretation or application of EU law.

The author of the article in question is well know for his more that non-favourable regard of the EU in general. The problem is...I find myself agreeing more and with his opinion. The sensationalism is one of Bruno's problems. Some more moderation would serve him better. Yet the most important thing here is that the quoted rules are included in the guidelines. The guidelines which were published by the Commission to ensure "universal" compliance. These rules are not included in the law itself. But I'm not enough of a legal expert to answer whether or not guidelines are to be fully respected.

[Tribesman]

Yet the most important thing here is that the quoted rules are included in the guidelines
Which quoted rules?

[Betonov]

Then what, they'd put an entire nation of 2 million behind bars ?? Go to war ??

@Tribesman:

Here's one for Sky, he knows more about the legislation in the EU than me

Happy ??

[Tribesman]

Then what, they'd put an entire nation of 2 million behind bars ?? Go to war ??

There are 2 million people in the toy industry in Slovenia?
Are you making up for lost time like there was in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Call out Benny Hill

[Betonov]

No Chichi bang bang here, we only produce scale model Yugoslav partisan action figures

[Respenus]

Which quoted rules?

The rules in the article that say that balloons will need to be properly marked and the like. The guidelines, together with the directive (which has to be translated into national law and cannot be taken for literal law), can be found here (http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/toys/documents/directives/index_en.htm).

@Betonov

Calm down, my good man. Countries are forced to pay fines, as we were forced to pay when we didn't transpose an environment directive in its fullest. No-one goes behind bars.

Let's just all take a deep breath and look at this from a perspective. Problematic? Yes. The most horrible piece of legislation and control over personal life ever? No. Don't mistake the Commission technocratic recommendation, for legal obligation.

[Betonov]

Nah, I'm just curious how far a country can go with not following one law from Brussels.
You break the law, get a fine, don't pay it and you go to jail and the fine is paid of by selling your assets. Cops enforce that ''transaction''
But there are no cops for countries. Who enforces EU laws if a member refuses to comply, who enforces paying the fine

[Respenus]

Nah, I'm just curious how far a country can go with not following one law from Brussels.
You break the law, get a fine, don't pay it and you go to jail and the fine is paid of by selling your assets. Cops enforce that ''transaction''
But there are no cops for countries. Who enforces EU laws if a member refuses to comply, who enforces paying the fine

You pay...trust me...It has yet to happen that a country or company didn't pay their fines or that a country didn't fix its internal law to follow the acquis. But now that you ask, I actually don't know the legal framework. I remember something about voting rights, but that's the extreme. Plus, the US would had lost its voting rights in the UN SC due to non-payment a long time ago. Same applies to the EU. Collective pressure or just too big.

[Jimbuna]

Nah, I'm just curious how far a country can go with not following one law from Brussels.
You break the law, get a fine, don't pay it and you go to jail and the fine is paid of by selling your assets. Cops enforce that ''transaction''
But there are no cops for countries. Who enforces EU laws if a member refuses to comply, who enforces paying the fine

You would normally go into a state of 'non compliance' and the threat of trade sanctions etc.

Much better to simply leave the EU IMHO....I wishthe UK would.

[Tribesman]

The rules in the article that say that balloons will need to be properly marked and the like.
So nothing at all about them being banned for kids:yeah:

What you have is a chocking hazard label regulation which in that specific case concerning balloons is moved from another piece of existing legislation over labels from 2005 as balloons are covered elsewhere...like with suction cups used on decorations.
So no new legislation at all in that regard, just a unifying of an existing provision into another provision by referencing it.


If Bruno wanted to write some sensationalist nonsense about balloons he should have written it 6 years ago and gone on about how terrible it is that balloon packets have to contain this little slip of paper.
Or even better he could have written it when the rules that were redone in 2005 were originally written

BTW "Quoted Rules" thats plural isn't it, the only other one close to being a "quoted rule" most certainly doesn't say what he says it says does it.

[Betonov]

Right, trade sanctions, that would definately bury this country. :nope:
I'm not going to go into what if this country was completely self suficient, that would be pushing it :DL too late for so much philosophy.

[Respenus]

Here's the paragraph of the offending latex balloons, seen here, given only as an example:

According to article 18 of the TSD a Risk/Hazard assessment shall be carried out to determine the risks/hazards of a toy. The toy should be designed in such a way that as many hazards as possible are eliminated or that residual risk is minimized to an acceptable level. The residual risks should be described through adequate warnings and/or instructions for use. E.g. the risk of drowning presented by aquatic toys can not be 100% eliminated by the design of the toy. Therefore supervisors should be informed that the toy shall be used in shallow water and under supervision of an adult. For latex balloons there must be a warning that children under 8 years must be supervised and broken balloons should be discarded. Activity toys shall be provided with a warning that they are for domestic use only.Again, guidelines, not the directive itself. Plus, I see no ban, merely instructions. You can print that on a small piece of paper that's attached to the packaging. Nevertheless, I should once again that what I do agree with, is that sometimes, things can be taken by the EU into a rather extreme direction. In the name of safety has rarely proven to be a positive argument.

@Betonov
No, there are no internal trade sanctions. Go have a beer, forget about things for a while ;) You can get paranoid by staying in these forums for a prolonged period of time. Never has a single member of the EU taken aggressive action towards another and never has the Commission been put into a situation that would deprive countries of the most important contribution of the EU, that is trade. Yes, the EU has problems, massive ones at that, but please, let's not believe everything you see in the media. Or what people write in these forums, myself included. We can all be wrong. Take a look at the rules yourself, that's the beauty of things today. Free access to information. Use it to become a better citizen, of Slovenia and the EU. That goes for everyone.

[Tribesman]

Again, guidelines, not the directive itself.
Yes
And if you look at the guidlines you will see that it is already specificly covered from 2005 but wasn't in 88/378, all they have done is referenced across to an existing piece.

Plus, I see no ban, merely instructions
Indeed , which is why the newspaper article was crap.

You can print that on a small piece of paper that's attached to the packaging.
They already do, they have done for years.

Nevertheless, I should once again that what I do agree with, is that sometimes, things can be taken by the EU into a rather extreme direction.
No arguement there, but all too frequently the EU target that is chosen as a terrible example of "Brussels gone mad" turns out to be a complete non story, as in this case.

In the name of safety has rarely proven to be a positive argument.
That depends entirely on the specific issue and the legislation as well as the enforcement.
Hey at least they still allow Kinder Eggs, Americans have to smuggle those as the european safety laws on food/toys mixed in the same package are not as strict as the US ones.

[JU_88]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8816601/Children-to-be-banned-from-blowing-up-balloons-under-EU-safety-rules.html

As if they can enforce these rules.... Jackasses.

[Herr-Berbunch]

The balloon thing didn't bother me, but I'll be glad of a ban on those stupid party-whistle-things. :woot: <Yeah, them!

Whoever decided this rule must be a parent. :yeah:

[Tribesman]

As if they can enforce these rules.... Jackasses
Of course they can, the real rules not the invented ones from the article .
If we wasn't in the EU we would still have a pile of these and there would be little stickers and little signs on products with Is written on them. If you wasn't in the EU you would have a pile of these rules and all the products would have Bs written on them. If it was cross border trade like from the republic to the six then all the products would have both Is and Bs written all over them...which was a bit of a waste of time as even if the regulations were identical the British Standard would have a different reference number than the Irish Standard.

but I'll be glad of a ban on those stupid party-whistle-things.
Lobby your MEPs , they are not banned.